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Tonight the FBI raided former President Trump’s Florida residence unannounced. This is an historical and unprecedented action which has horrible portents for our republic. I’ll have more to say about this, and so will RR readers who need a place to record their sentiments as this story develops over the next days. If there is no smoking gun produced by the DoJ in this case, then we have definitely transitioned into a political thugocracy.
Here’s a direct link to the video of the statement from his office:
https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1558261235883311106
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Shhhhhhh!!!! EVERYBODY JUST SHUT UP FOR A MINUTE!!!!
Matlock is on….he’s about to make an inescapable point in both logic and the law…..need to see where he’s going with this.
…….and thanks in advance for watching this episode…. The Case of the Secret Files ….a Quinn Martin production.
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Lol. They are getting the band back together.
‘Strzok, who helped lead FBI’s Russia collusion probe, now says former president has Russian passport’
“One of the passports taken in the raid was Trump’s active diplomatic passport, according to an email from the Justice Department made public by Trump spokesman Taylor Budowich. The department official also said in the email that the other two passports were expired.”
https://justthenews.com/accountability/russia-and-ukraine-scandals/ex-fbi-agent-peter-strzok-suggests-trump-has-russian
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Well thats a big fly in the ointment –
Those statutes are general in their text and application. But Mr. Trump’s documents are covered by a specific statute, the Presidential Records Act of 1978. It has long been the Supreme Court position, as stated in Morton v. Mancari (1974), that “where there is no clear intention otherwise, a specific statute will not be controlled or nullified by a general one, regardless of the priority of enactment.” The former president’s rights under the PRA trump any application of the laws the FBI warrant cites.
The PRA lays out detailed requirements for how the archivist is to administer the records, handle privilege claims, make the records public, and impose restrictions on access. Notably, it doesn’t address the process by which a former president’s records are physically to be turned over to the archivist, or set any deadline, leaving this matter to be negotiated between the archivist and the former president.
President Trump’s attorneys filed a motion Monday with the federal court in Florida that authorized the search warrant, asking him to appoint a “special master” to return seized materials that implicate attorney-client privilege or executive privilege. They argue that the president’s Fourth Amendment rights were violated — that the search warrant was so broad as to amount to a “general search,” prohibited since the days of “red-coated soldiers” who provoked the Bill of Rights in the first place.
Rivkin and Casey note that there is no provision in the PRA that would allow a search warrant to be executed against the president, absent some other crime having been committed (and possibly having reached a conviction in a court of law).
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/08/23/wsj-op-ed-no-legal-basis-for-mar-a-lago-search-warrant/
😉
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Don @ 3:20 pm
Thank you, thank you, thank you. I have been sitting on that for over a week waiting for someone else to point this out. While the PRA of 1978 clearly has violations stated, there is NO enforcement provision (no enforcement mechanism) in the Records Act. Thus, to have the FBI retrieve such documents is illegal. The FBI or the aJustice Act cannot enforce the Records Act.
One who is know knowledgeable on such matters would also point out that the National Achieves records fall under the jurisdiction of the Capitol Police, not the FBI. Illegal search warrant. Now, the Espionage Act is a different matter. Just like the National Parks Service protected the burned church in Layette Park and pushed the rioters and violent mob back with tear gas, not Bill Barr or Donald Trump or the Capitol Police or for a Trump photo op, lol.
The DC Metro police did help with crowd control and they were the ones who used ‘not tear gas’ tear gas on the rioters who also torched the White House guard shack, which is protected by the Secret Service.
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re 320pm and 520pm – Sadly, none of that little celebration matters. Why? Because no one will go down that rabbit hole to discover the PRA, plus what it really means; and the DoJ will proceed with the criminal investigation recognizing and citing their own laws manufactured from whole cloth, because no journalist (lamestream of conservative) will want to raise and attempt to explain it to the nation of double dummies with short attention spans. RR is a microcosm harbinger of all this in its comment streams.
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Dr. Rebane @ 5:58 pm
Agreed. That’s why I sat on that for over a week. In fact my comments and knowledge of such matters should be put under the category of Legal Theories. A Constitutionalist is a lonely place to be. I may be a newly proclaimed populist, but only in the vain of a Constitutionalist populist. :).
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‘Nothing Is More Pro-Law And Order Than Attacking The Rotten FBI’
https://thefederalist.com/2022/08/23/nothing-is-more-pro-law-and-order-than-attacking-the-rotten-fbi/
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G
George
You wrote earlier that ” IMHO the president should only declassify through a known and deliberate process that involves multiple official parties being informed and offering recorded counsel on the matter. ”
Are you satisfied that Trump did that with the classified information that was discovered by the FBI?
From Trumps office:
Trump did claim that all was declassified the moment it left Washington. This is Trumps opinion the matter:
“As we can all relate to, everyone ends up having to bring home their work from time to time. American presidents are no different,” said the statement from Trump’s office on Friday night read out on Fox News.
Trump further claimed that he had a “standing order” to declassify documents “the moment” they left the Oval Office.
“President Trump, in order to prepare for work the next day, often took documents, including classified documents, from the Oval Office to the residence. He had a standing order that documents removed from the Oval Office and taken into the residence were deemed to be declassified the moment he removed them,” the statement said.”
Do you think that qualifies for de-classification as you described in your earlier quote on this post ?
https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-claims-standing-order-automatically-declassify-docs-2022-8
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Johnathan Turley
‘Litigation by Leak: Government Officials Leak New Details on the Mar-a-Lago Raid While Continuing to Oppose Disclosures in Court’
https://jonathanturley.org/2022/08/23/litigation-by-leak-government-officials-leak-new-details-on-the-mar-a-lago-raid-while-continuing-to-oppose-disclosures-in-court/
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Bill
Do you agree with Trumps official statement that ” He had a standing order that documents removed from the Oval Office and taken into the residence were deemed to be declassified the moment he removed them,”
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#sadoldman yelling get off the lawn @ 707,650 LOL
😉
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Not tonight Paul, I have headache. How do you know classified documents were found at Mar-a-Lago? We do not know that as a fact. 🙂
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Posted by: psul “channeling Anita Horgarth” Emery | 23 August 2022 at 07:07 PM
So if Bill agrees with Trump…what then….he wins something…..some sort of prize?
Asking for a friend!
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Bill
My question had to do with whether you agreed with his statement about declassification. Here’s the offical statement from his office:
” He had a standing order that documents removed from the Oval Office and taken into the residence were deemed to be declassified the moment he removed them,”
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Paul Emery @ 707 pm.
707pm? That late already. Time to get outside and get maybe an hour in on my project. Definitely at the 100/168 mark. Flew a lot of miles on the 707s when they were the big ole jet airliner that took me where I wanted to be.
No Paul, tonight I feel like Dr. Rebane when he arrived home from his long boring road trip.
With drink in hand, Dr. Rebane enjoyed (for one night and possibility a day) to just let the problems of the world pass him by. Tonight, with no drink in hand, things seem…as Dr. Rebane perfectly put it….things seem complicated, too complicated so I will let the world go to hell in a hand basket tonight.
Tonight, Paul, I just don’t have the want power to do the 5 fairies dancing on the head of a pen. Besides, who cares what I think. Right now I am thinking about taking a big dump on Fauci and Garland’s desk. Ok, time to smoke the peacepipe. Later. I will circle back and get back to you with the answer to your question. Might take a couple days. That Biden inflation cut deep into my summer vacation travel plans this year and its now I say, “ It’s over, let the world go to hell in a hand basket.” Let me informed!
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Paul. I don’t think that you understand the presidency. The president can literally stand over a pile of documents and declassify them by fiat. Nobody can stop him except by impeaching him. That’s it. Congress cannot make laws restricting presidential power, because only the constitution restrains the president and the sole remedy is impeachment. Trump could do whatever he wanted with the documents. He can take them because they are his. Obama, Bush, and Clinton have done the same thing. There is nothing to see here except a political department of justice being used as the FSB.
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So Barry you disagree with George qwho saYS ” IMHO the president should only declassify through a known and deliberate process that involves multiple official parties being informed and offering recorded counsel on the matter. ”
Also Barry can you provide documentation as to exactly when Trump de-classified the documents? Obviously it would have to have been when he was still in office.
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Paul. How came I miss you when I won’t go away? All this does is delay my nutshell bottomline answer to your inquiry. Easy Peary. Now it will be a couple of days or there abouts.
If you want to do the legal theory five fairies dancing on a pinpoint, then I strongly recommend your educate yourself on why a search warrant was issued instead of a subpoena….like the normal process would be litigated via the courts. Hint: A search warrant bypasses the the subpoena process which the act of turning over documents under court order cannot be considered criminal. Just the act of following a subpoena cannot me criminalized. Following a court order is a lawful act. Now, what’s in the docs and so forth is a different matter. But, to get to that point is where the 5 fairies dancing in the head of a pen comes in.
Put this in the Legal Theory section of the Encyclopedia of Worthless Information. Worthless in era of Darn the Torpedoes, Full Steam Ahead to GET TRUMP! Not through the Judiciary, but through the door kickers looking for criminal acts. Like Nazis or Stalinists, or Maoists. Get your kids and neighbors and friends to rat you out.
Do I agree with that one legal theory you are hung up on? What is a lawful order or was it a lawful order for Trump to say “It’s declassified because I say so?”
Well, the explanation is not that complicated and the answer is short and clear. Stay tuned
Paul, the answer is “absolutely not” IF and only if your are going after a criminal conviction. That’s a lot to pin your hopes on. A lot. The courts and SCOTUS have historically given Presidents a huge wide range of latitude in declaring what is personal papers and what docs the President can keep or Wa to keep for writing memoirs and refreshing memories or whatever they choose.
The Courts have just about always shot your hat right off the hat rack you put it that thing on. Big hole in that argument. No use citing statues. Time to get a new hat and hat rack.
Hey, remember in Trump’s last days folks like your buddies where freaking out that Trump still had the launch codes and was going to blow up the world on his way out the door!! And that idiot general not in the chain of command was calling China and telling them we would give them a heads up if Trump was about to launch and and…we gotta impeach the mother now before he blows up the whole world!
Kinda reminds me of the nuke weapon intel Trump has in his safe or Melania’s sock drawer. Sock drawer my ash.
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When they were taken to MAL. Further trump declassified all russiagate and Clinton email docs in October 2020.
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#sadoldman loves to stomp his little feet and hold his breath with a bong hit demanding the most idiotic things, does he not understand that no one cares what the po’ ol’ fakenewsman demands! LOL
Also Barry can you provide documentation
😉
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PaulE 906pm – as always, your logic dreadfully flawed. Barry’s 858pm and my druthers on presidential declassification are totally consistent.
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Brother Paul.
There is a reason why I keep going back to a topic you would rather not discuss; Russiagate and Spygate. The reason is the same group of folks (mostly the same group of folks including you) made up bold face lies out of thin air, lied, spread lies, and weaponized the now beyond any shadow of doubt the very corrupt FBI/DOJ-National Security political apparatus to FRAME AN INNOCENT MAN. It was all to frame an innocent man. That is evil. Bearing false witness.
The parallels between the totally made up Hoax and the raid on Mar-a-Lago has the same cast of characters twisting themselves into pretzels to find some dubious Logan Act or unclear statute to pin a crime on one person while absolving the same behavior others did and do with impunity and reckless abandon with gusto with no consequences.
I know it is your mission to #Resist at all costs….so, I will leave it at your doorstep, figuratively. Your efforts to frame an innocent man in the succession of the most recent years makes it difficult to fathom you are operating on any semblance of ‘good faith’. Nuff said.
—————————————-
The Raid:
With about 100 days before the mid-terms and the Oval Office directly involved, why would the Biden Administration take such an unprecedented bold move to raid with 30 armed agents with real machine guns the residence of any former President of the Untied States? “Why, why, why?”, as the Ponytail of Evil Deeds is known to ask. Why?
A: To sow chaos. Chaos. The Leftinistas need chaos. They create chaos to thrive and retain power. The raid was all about chaos.
————-
Remember when the Russian Collusion debunked Hoax started, I said keep an eye on John Carlin. Well, nobody remembers that besides me. John Carlin was the head of the DOJ’s National Security Division created under the Patriot Act. Arguably the most powerful lawyer in the DOJ…certainly the top counter-intelligence lawyer in government.
The released material and communications of Lisa Page, McCabe and Bill P show how they could not get a warrant to domestically spy on Trump and his campaign without the National Security Division’s John Carlin signing off. A name on no one’s radar here save moi.
Carlin signed off on the warrant in very late September, 2016, gave two weeks notice and left his position as head of the DOJ’s. National Security Division (he was only in his early 50’s) in Oct, 2016 and was gone before the 2016 election. Out of sight, out of mind. Went to go work for some big group. His right hand deputy took over his position, the woman who Page and McCade and higher ups pressured to get Carlin on the stick and sign off on the warrant to spy on a political rival’s campaign for President. Anyway….
Well, John Carlin is back in government! He is now the third ranking counter-intelligence official which means he participated in overseeing The Raid.
I may be the only who cares, and I do care. The parallels, the chaos, the cases past and present against Trump are one and the same to me. Call it Impeachment Chaos 3.0.
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So Barry you are saying Trump declassified the Docs in 2020. Can you provide documentation on that?
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Ladies and gentlemen we are proud to introduce the “psulBot2000” automatic comment response bot…
So ______ you are saying Trump _______ the ______ in _______. Can you provide documentation on that?
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So Barry if Trump declassifies documents as you say he has the right to doesn’t that also mean that there would be public access to those documents under the
FOIA act and Trump would have to release them to to anyone who applies?
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Punchy 1017a
No, but thanks for punching.
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Let’s play “What if”. Suppose for the sake of argument that Donald J. Trump does have the declassification order and documents to prove the date and time while still a sitting President….. but refuses (and his team) to release said documents just to draw the fools into his trap to make them look like the chickens with their heads cut of they be. Expose them as dopes.
Is Trump that smart? Is Trump one step of them and not the other way around? Does Trump know their next move before they do and with just a couple of moves left in the proverbial chess match before Trump calls check mate on them…are they ready to stop the game now? No way, Jose. Are the hunters becoming the hunted?
Just a game of “What If”, a silly game indeed. So, George, suppose…….
“Welcome to my parlor” said the spider to the fly. Now off to my daily meditations with Kamala Harris. Let’s play that game again, shall we?
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Gregory
Can you or anyone else provide a link to support your 10:37 ? It refers to my 10:17 post.
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Punchy 207p
Yes, indeed, someone can. Someone might, someone, not me.
I remember trying to use the state equivalent 20 years ago to get someone in the County Education, the NUJHSD or the GVSD to divulge who gave them $50k to study the efficacy of scrapping the AP series and going with Internationale Baccalaureate courses and testing.
The three entities each pointed to the other to say their hands were tied.
I suspected the money was from the Parisian who was managing the GVG for but the whole thing was dropped.
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Posted by: psul Emery | 24 August 2022 at 02:07 PM
Gregory
Can you or anyone else provide a link to support your 10:37 ? It refers to my 10:17 post.
Ya know…..sometimes if you put the craziest ass shit (like the question you’ve posed) into the query bar of a search engine you will frequently get a range of interesting and relevant returns. I know…..it sounds crazy!
For instance, I cut and pasted the entire first paragraph from your 10:17 and got back a number of items to review….many were contradictory but that is to be expected where a unique legal I question is at issue!
Anyway….just trying to help a brother out.
I think next I’ll query, “Why are former hippies still so dang lazy”?
Let you know how it turns out.
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re PaulE 1017am – The FOIA issue concerning access to formerly classified, now sub-rosa presidentially declassified federal documents, is a valid concern, and a good point to discuss. We can all think of reasons why some such documents, subsequently released through FOIA, would not serve the national interest. My own recommendation of using a more formal procedure for presidential declassification was offered to avoid the current problems of sub-rosa disposition of classified documents.
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https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-idUSKBN29O2TB
Sure. Russia Probe Docs Declassified. As far as FOIA is concerned, Trump is not in the government, so FOIA does not apply to him; however and because the documents were declassified, the FBI and DOJ could be a source for the documents under FOIA. The problem is that neither the FBI nor the DOJ want these declassified documents out in the public view. These very documents are the ones that the FBI tried to take. I am hearing that they did not get the documents that they were looking for as well.
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Barry
How about the more recent files that Trump claims were de classified including those labeled Top Secret?
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punchy 424p
What exactly are the documents you are referencing? Identifying marks and descriptions?
I’ll wait for your complete answer.
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“I thought the C on the documents meant page three.” —Former Secretary of State and not anyone’s President, Hillary Rodman Clinton
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Paul. I have a question for you. Why does it matter if Trump had classified documents under lock and guarded by the Secret Service? He was the alpha of the executive branch. None of us know what is in the documents, so even if any of these documents were classified you don’t know what they are.I just don’t see anything here.
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“Barry
How about the more recent files that Trump claims were de classified including those labeled Top Secret?
Posted by: Paul Emery | 24 August 2022 at 04:24 PM”
———-
Paul, kindly show us all the documentation you have that declassified documents were labeled Top Secret!
Don’t tell me, let me guess. 17 Intel agencies told you that. Some source in the DOJ? Someone speaking on the condition of anonymity? The Wa Compost, CNN, NYT, or NPR?
Did I guess it, did I? Whatever I won, kindly donate it to beloved commentator fish. Thanks in advance.
—————-
Did you know that the Secret Service members guarding the President have a higher classification status than the President himself? It’s tru, tis true. Super duper Top Secret.
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Holy Smokes. Not even the corrupt Brass can trust the FBI.
FBI whistleblowers say senior officials ordered Bureau not to investigate Hunter Biden laptop
“The FBI cannot be trusted with the handling of Hunter Biden’s laptop”
“Former Washington Field Office Assistant Special Agent in Charge Timothy Thibault faced allegations that he withheld the partisan nature of evidence from senior DOJ officials to secure their approval for an investigation of Trump. Moreover, he reportedly worked to falsely discredit evidence against Hunter Biden. Thibault has been reassigned following the allegations.”
https://justthenews.com/government/federal-agencies/fbi-whistleblowers-say-senior-officials-ordered-bureau-not-investigate
Just allegations. Nothing you see here folks. This whole thing smells like Susan Rice of Jan 5, 2017.
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You’re right Barry. ” He was the alpha of the executive branch.” That was then but this is now He lost the election to Biden and has no right to retain classified documents at his residence. They are not his personal possessions.
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Well they already scored on victory so why doubt they will have another –
https://www.oann.com/judicial-watch-files-foia-lawsuit-against-national-archives-for-hiding-records-tied-to-raid-on-trumps-home/
😉
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Who classifies documents?
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Well Paul, go get Obama’s documents that he has kept in his multi-mega million dollar library. Good luck with that, Paul Emery. Try to pry o e document loose. They are not to be touched or seen for now.
The documents at the Reagan Library are available to view, but not remove….on a need to know basis, lol.
Perhaps this is too complicated for you to wrap your head around. I agree with your premise that the documents are property of Uncle Sam. But, when the rubber hits the road, it’s five faires dancing on the head of a pin. The one who would know is Bill Barr, whose previous years spent at the much sought after position at the Office of Legal Counsel which advises the President and Justice Department on Constitutional matters.
Perhaps Trump has violated some act, the Espionage Act hopefully in your case. But, those laws are applied haphazardly and with no consistency. For a tiny example, Huma’s e-Mails with Hillary reveal that Hillary printed copies of government classified documents by removing the letterheads and sending the classified documents to her home where her Guatemalan housekeeper was instructed to remove them from the home printer and up them on Hillary home office desk. Follow me so far?
It is a violation of the Espionage Act to let anyone touch, handle, or see classified docs who is not authorized and has classified clearance. That means when Hillary had Maria or Rosa the maid get the docs out of The Clinton’s home printer and walk them to her home office, Hillary violated the Espionage Act and can never hold federal office, appointed or elected, again. Was she charged with that crime? No way, Jose. Even Comey admitted he took his docs home to use for stuff like preparing speeches and stuff like that. Mixing personal with government business is frowned upon….but everything Comey did he considered as “authorized”, He was not a POTUS, but an self appointed liar in chief. Anyway….best to leave such nuanced and complex issues to those who work in the realm of federal statues.
Mark Levin would know. As chief spokesperson for the Justice Department, he darn near knew every statue inside and out and the Constitutionality and debate behind each law…so unlike today’s department and WH spokespersons, he could answer any question thrown his way. Haven’t checked on Levine lately, but he would have a very reasoned opinion on such matters, increased case history.
But, pay that no never mind. The Great Equalizer for all of us is no one can say for sure how a judge or court will render their decisions. Even slam dunks. We just don’t know at this point which way the cookie crumbles.
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Well Barry if Trump declassified the documents all he has to do is present the documentation as to where and when the declassification was done and of course what files were involved and he won’t have a problem. You have to admit saying a year and a half later that they were automatically declassified when he took them home is pretty lame. To the best of my knowledge there is not even one person in his staff who said they were aware of that at the time.
Trump is basically delusional and getting worse if he thinks that will fly.
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OH Boy can we get a one-handed clap for the ponytail of ignorance’s comic stylings –
To the best of my knowledge ROFLOL
😉
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Judicial Watch files FOIA suit against National Archives to obtain Trump raid records
“The Biden administration’s unlawful secrecy on its political raid of Trump’s home speaks volumes”
https://justthenews.com/government/courts-law/judicial-watch-files-foia-suit-against-national-archives-obtain-trump-raid
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Yo BT, kind of already covered brother.
😉
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Not so cut and dry, now is it Paul?
‘How Barack Obama set the legal path for the FBI’s Trump raid’
2009 executive order stripped prior presidents’ standing to maintain executive privilege. Court hearing Friday in Navarro case could challenge that.
https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/all-things-trump/how-barack-obama-set-legal-path-fbis-trump-raid
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Don Bessee.
Opps, I did it again, eh. Be nice or I will start calling you Bessee Blunt. 🙂
Ok, back to Media Matters.
‘Morning Joe Pushes Possibility ‘Nefarious’ Trump Sold ‘Ultra-Secret’ Documents’
https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/mark-finkelstein/2022/08/24/morning-joe-pushes-possibility-nefarious-trump-sold-ultra
Not such plain ole Top Secret docs, but ULTRA-SECRET documents, lol. Wonder what is higher than ultra-secret documents? Mega ultra-secret?
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First of all Paul, many of the documents were declassified in October 2020. Second, what law requires the president to fill out a form to declassify anything. You clearly do not understand presidential power. It is all bullshit. Just like Russia collusion. Just like Ukraine impeachment. Just like January 6.
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