Rebane's Ruminations
July 2017
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George Rebane

Union columnist Terry McLaughlin writes an excellent expose of nationalized healthcare in the newspaper’s 6jul17 edition – ‘Government run healthcare wouldn’t be cheaper; more efficient’.  In there she includes a detailed report from New Zealand, one of the countries often cited by socialists of how a healthcare system should work.  As you might expect, the revelation isn’t a pretty picture, but it is one of which RR readers are very familiar.

SinglePayerHealthcareThe bottom line of all this push toward a (horribly misnamed) “single payer system” (SSS) is that, for all the reasons known to thinking people everywhere, no country has a laudable and/or sustainable government run healthcare system.  All of them are ragged bureaucracies, delivering already bad services for a very high price.  And all of them are looking for ways to deliver even less at a higher cost in ways that are difficult to discover while you’re healthy, and that immediately obvious but too late to fix once you become a victim (aka ‘patient’).

I recommend Ms McLaughlin’s review of why we should do everything possible to avoid a SSS, and at the same time open up the delivery of healthcare products and services to the widest array of competent suppliers.  To argue that our pre-Ocare system already did that demonstrates a gross ignorance of our national economy, existing healthcare systems, and current affairs.

Finally, let’s dwell for a moment on the almost hysterical push for SSS we hear in the lamestream and in the exhortations of leftwing politicians, to remind us again of the seminal differences between people devoted to all things collectivist, and those who promote freedom, entrepreneurship, and market-driven solutions.

When in a social setting, peel back the daisy talking veneer of a collectivist, and you are instantly flooded with a monologue detailing the evils of selfish individualism and greedy capitalism, the remedies for which are government, and yet more government.  By definition, the collectivist sees a fulfilled human as one drawing all things good from being a compliant member of a politically legitimized collective.  By himself, the individual is nothing but a suffering derelict cast adrift on a sea of socially destructive competition that worships raw merit which inevitably gives rise to inequality and injustice.  It is the establishment, expansion, and submission to a comprehensive collective which gives rise to a society that provides succor to all of our ‘legitimate needs’ through a correct redistribution from those who can and must, to those who can’t or won’t – “From each according to his ability, to each …” (Marx, et al).  Examples of such collectives still abound.  

[update]  For those true believers in government healthcare, we draw examples of ‘healthcare from hell’ right here in the good ol’ USofA.  Everyone by now has heard, save perhaps the devotees of the lamestream media, of what the Veterans’ Administration has done in caring for the health of our veterans.  To this we can add the atrocity that is the system of, yes, federal hospitals charged with providing healthcare to Native Americans (pc for American Indians).  To get a snootful of what we can expect from SSS, and others around the world are already getting, you can read ‘‘People Are Dying Here’: Federal Hospitals Are Failing Native Americans’ in which we find that – In some of the nation’s poorest places, the government health service charged with treating Native Americans failed to meet minimum U.S. standards for medical facilities, turned away gravely ill patients and caused unnecessary deaths, according to federal regulators, agency documents and interviews. … The IHS, a unit of the Department of Health and Human Services, operates a network of hospitals and clinics, much like the Veterans Health Administration. Under U.S. treaties that date back generations, the service is legally responsible for providing medical care to about 2.2 million tribal members.

[8jul17 update]  I couldn’t figure out where to post the tragic story of little Charlie Gard – the lamestream had no problem with just judiciously ignoring it – whether it is an example of hellish healthcare or of yellow (aka progressive) journalism.  Charlie suffers from a rare genetic disorder that gives him a very small chance of surviving, and that small chance is being reduced to zero by the National Healthcare System of the British government whose death panel has ruled that the state 1) will not let Charlie’s parents, at no cost to the UK government, take Charlie to the US for treatment, 2) deemed Charlie’s case too expensive to treat under their NHS ‘single payer’ system (which is financially on its ass), and 3) have taken Charlie away from his parents and made him a ward of the state whose life will be officially terminated (they will ‘pull the plug’) so that “he can die with dignity” and fulfill his state determined “duty to die”.  UK’s socialist controllers cannot afford the precedent of returning the decision for an ailing person’s fate to his family.  Our progressives are purposely blind to these goings on, but the rest of us should pay close attention to how this plays out so that we can correctly evaluate the Left’s Single Payer Über Alles that is coming down the pike. (more here)  For a wider and deeper understanding of what’s in store for us, explore the widespread advent of state promoted ‘duty to die’ euthanasia across Europe.  I suppose ordering your premature death is probably the most direct way for governments to reduce the extent and cost of services of their socialized healthcare systems.

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278 responses to “Healthcare from Hell (updated 8jul17)”

  1. uirement under law? Avatar
    uirement under law?

    re-do
    many times you make a ruling that an example cited in opposition to your position is anecdotal and you disregard good and useful arguments yet you eagerly allow anecdotal information supporting your view without a peep.
    That’s one example. Your refusal to consider the merits of comparing taxpayer support for healthcare with taxpayer support for education is the most recent one. I can go on and on but that’s a start.
    Are you considering banning me from your blog?

    Like

  2. Don Bessee Avatar
    Don Bessee

    If it squeals like a po’ ol’ fakenewsman, if its rhetoric is like a fakenewsman it must be a fakenewsman @ 420 (no irony there). Did Dr. R stutter? 😉

    Like

  3. uirement under law? Avatar
    uirement under law?

    Typical Bad Neighbor Don sputtering about nothing.

    Like

  4. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Weird
    I am “uirement under law” I always use my name, which is not true for many on this blog

    Like

  5. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    There goes Punchy again trying to center himself in the middle of topic and control the narrative and steer us all in the path he desires. Makes himself feel creditable or something. Geeze, Control Freaks all smell the same when you get close to their stink. He is still friggin butt hurt from when Dr. Rebane chided him for using antidotal stories as imperial evidence. That was many moons ago and he shot snide remarks for a few days afterward. Then I used a much of antidotal stories and never got chided. Haha. I’m teacher’s pet! Boy Punchy, drop that 90 pound rock you carry with you everywhere you go. Let it go, man, let it go.
    Property taxes pay for our schools, stooge. Duh. Oh yeah, the lottery was passed on the commercials filling the airwaves that “Our Schools Win Too!” Now, back to free stuff for everybody…..and everybody else pays but poor ole me. Sweet.
    Resist Punchy!

    Like

  6. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    I’m a property owner Bill so I pay for schools right? Where in the constitution does it give the power to the government to force compulsory education on our children ?

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  7. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Glad you asked that Punchy. Next question please.

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  8. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    “Seems like through the lens of a Conservative such as you”
    I’ve never been a Conservative or a conservative. Sorry, snowflake.
    And education until very recently had never been a Federal issue. Compulsory school attendance is one of those powers reserved to the states.

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  9. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Education is a States thang, duh.

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  10. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    Where in the Constitution does it give the states and counties the right to levy property taxes, Paul? I suggest you stand up for your (and mine) Flying Spaghetti Monster given rights, and just say no.

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  11. George Rebane Avatar

    uirement 417pm – the only ‘infraction’ you are able to cite just arose today, and in a more considered response I am working on the larger topic of ‘social commons’ for my radio commentary on Wed. I explained my non-response and request for postponement of the topic in my 938am. And yes, you had better “go on” and give even ONE example of your “many times” claim, because you will be persona non grata when you gratuitously mess with me on RR – you can do that on Pelline’s blog.

    Like

  12. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Sure George gun control when I cited a family tragedy. Don’t have the exact date.

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  13. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Speaking specifically of compulsory education Gregory. Not only that then they require you to have your kids vaccinated. In other words to be legal you have to send you kids to school and submit to vaccinations with very narrow exceptions one being home schooling with no classes involved.

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  14. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Funny how every Lib under the sun someone skips over that clause in the Constitution about if it ain’t specified here, those powers belong to the States.
    Now, has anybody out there ever heard a progressive or snowflake quote that clause? Ok, save the marijuana growers and dope peddling advocates. Always an exception. They always act surprised when a Conservative quotes the glorious phrase, like they never heard it before. The Democrat Congress and Sentae is Exhibit A.
    Why should I be forced to buy a Obamacare policy that includes pediatric eye exams and child shrinks and breast exams?? Geeze, maybe they had the FUE in mind when the make me pay for breast exams and college co-ed birth control so the SJWs can have a excuse to be sluts? How convenient.
    Why, why, why? Why is Punchy controlling the narrative and taking us down this road. Dr. Rebane warned you, you Punch Drunk Fakenews Single White Male. Old and rural to boot, besides suffering the humiliation of being the poster child for “A mind is a terrible thing to waste” PSA’s.
    Dr. Rebane, 86′ that person out of here. #ResistPunchDrunkeness.

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  15. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 538pm – “…many times you make a ruling that an example cited in opposition to your position is anecdotal and you disregard good and useful arguments yet you eagerly allow anecdotal information supporting your view without a peep.”
    Not even close. Point us to where I ignored your anecdote and was not able to do better by lamely countering with one of my own. Your just saying it doesn’t make it so. And how others respond to you with their anecdotal evidence or not is something you take up with them, instead of ascribing it to me. I take my own comments very seriously and retract/correct when shown to be wrong.

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  16. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Well George you certainly cut me off at the pass when I was raising the question o the equivalency of spending others peoples money for healthcare services and spending others peoples money for education when those that don’t have children are taxed to educate those that do. You whacked me on that one this afternoon.

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  17. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 556pm – “Whacked you”? where?

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  18. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    George
    From 9:38 this AM
    PaulE 642pm – Don’t want to pull this thread off into a discussion of public education. That needs its own post under which we can dissect 10 ways from Sunday.
    As I quoted Marx in my commentary (reprised in Gregory’s 907am), such open ended questions as yours lead to nowhere, and the history of their implied practice is dismal…………

    Like

  19. Don Bessee Avatar
    Don Bessee

    A po’ ol’ fakenewsman postures as a victim, fake victim of course. Who saw that one coming? 😉

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  20. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    More from Hoseman Don

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  21. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    I think you are on the wrong thread as usual PE. And I paid many thousands of dollars to the schools for my kids. But hey thanks, you finally own some property and now you can start paying for others.

    Like

  22. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    This is getting emotional. Someone has a need that isn’t being met. Ah, how cute.
    https://youtu.be/cxhwM06lLUs

    Like

  23. Don Bessee Avatar
    Don Bessee

    Ah, the po’ ol’ fakenewsman victim turns to his BS bag again! Posturing as a victim claiming personal attacks and unfair treatment does not work when you slime people/group/parties with regularity. 😉

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  24. ScenesFromTheApocalypse Avatar
    ScenesFromTheApocalypse

    re: The Paul@ 2:09AM before he hijacked the thread for whatever reason.
    “Single payer is the only real option for universal health care ”
    Please explain the Swiss system then. Thanks.

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  25. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    I think PE is feeling guilty for never owning a property or house until lately. Paying property taxes was how schools were always paid for. So he skated all those years and in fact never did pay for anyone else’s kids. I forgive you though. Now, pay my medical bills please.

    Like

  26. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    I forgive Punchy as well…..not for being dead and the things he did not do, but simply because that is the kind of guy I am.
    Tanks a rocket, Paul. You just had to go there, didn’t you. Why show I pay for bombs? Make love, not war.
    https://www.facebook.com/TAPTheAmericanPatriot/photos/rpp.426883867374699/1179145688815176/?type=3&theater

    Like

  27. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 604pm – However do you consider my 938am a “whack” when I explained my refusal to get on to the education thread in this comment stream?? I know our skins get thinner as we both age, but isn’t this carrying sensitivity a bit too far?

    Like

  28. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Correction: “not for being dead and” should read “not for being dead weight and the things he did not do”.
    Don’t want to anyone to think I wish Paul Eeeee dead or desire him go off the rails and think somebody (moi) is threatening him again. I liked that time he got all exercised and said he was going to exercise his Second Amendment rights, lol. That will be the day.
    BTW, the 2nd Amendement to the Constitution of the United States of America is not a 2nd class right, but a clearly spelled out right. It isn’t #9 or #11 on the list either. Unlike non rights such as food, clothing, housing, and going to see the Doc, which are entitlements only in and of themselves. Those are 2nd class non-rights, if you prefer.

    Like

  29. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Scenes
    Here’s an overall look at the Swiss system from Forbes Magazine.
    Why Switzerland Has the World’s Best Health Care System
    It is not single payer but the government imposes severe restrictions and enforces uniformity to those rules for all participating companies. Here’s an overview of the Swiss system. Not single payer but strictly enforced uniformity.
    “Swiss citizens buy insurance for themselves; there are no employer-sponsored or government-run insurance programs. Hence, insurance prices are transparent to the beneficiary. The government defines the minimum benefit package that qualifies for the mandate. Critically, all packages require beneficiaries to pick up a portion of the costs of their care (deductibles and coinsurance) in order to incentivize their frugality.
    The government subsidizes health care for the poor on a graduated basis, with the goal of preventing individuals from spending more than 10 percent of their income on insurance. But because people are still on the hook for a significant component of the costs, they often opt for cheaper packages; in 2003, 42% of Swiss citizens chose high-deductible plans (i.e., plans with significant cost-sharing features). Those who wish to acquire supplemental coverage are free to do so on their own.
    99.5% of Swiss citizens have health insurance. Because they can choose between plans from nearly 100 different private insurance companies, insurers must compete on price and service, helping to curb health care inflation. Most beneficiaries have complete freedom to choose their doctor, and appointment waiting times are almost as low as those in the U.S., the world leader.”
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2011/04/29/why-switzerland-has-the-worlds-best-health-care-system/#4cdd5d857d74

    Like

  30. Don Bessee Avatar
    Don Bessee

    Would the po’ ol’ fakenewsman care to tell us the requirements for Swiss citizenship, especially immigrant eligibility for citizenship? Then there is the fact that the US has 44 times the population, many of them illegal who tap our system, especially in cali. 😉

    Like

  31. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Don’t know Don. You seem to know everything. If it’s important to the conversation why don’t you educate the rest of us.

    Like

  32. Don Bessee Avatar
    Don Bessee

    You are making the argument, if you cant defend your position through ignorance of the facts its not my job to educate ya you po’ ol’ fakenewsman. Apples to oranges baby. 😉

    Like

  33. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Must not be very important Don or you would already know it. I’ve done the research about basic Swiss health care. If it’s important let us know otherwise who cares.

    Like

  34. Don Bessee Avatar
    Don Bessee

    Hey, middle school psychology at work @ 949. 😉

    Like

  35. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Don
    Whatever…It’s all good.

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  36. Don Bessee Avatar
    Don Bessee

    So you admit that you still don’t know. 😉

    Like

  37. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Don
    Whatever…It’s all good.

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  38. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 835pm – Good report Paul. Would you agree that this plan has the significant features of the counter plan (also proposed here) of having all insurance companies compete in all the states? There is no problem with specifying minimums, variable co-pays, and a safety net for the poor. Comparing the Swiss and US demographics might present some problems, but as long as the illegals are buying their own health insurance, the impact is minimized. I would still not want to fund any illegal aliens’ healthcare.

    Like

  39. Don Bessee Avatar
    Don Bessee

    Too late Dr. R, we are already paying illegals earned income tax credits as well as paying for their 0 care, then there is sex changes for prison inmates. 😉

    Like

  40. ScenesFromTheApocalypse Avatar
    ScenesFromTheApocalypse

    re: The Paul@2:09
    “Single payer is the only real option for universal health care ”
    re: The Paul@8:35 using quick google-fu to learn something, states:
    “Because they can choose between plans from nearly 100 different private insurance companies, insurers must compete on price and service, helping to curb health care inflation.”
    That pretty much sums it up.

    Like

  41. ScenesFromTheApocalypse Avatar
    ScenesFromTheApocalypse

    re: GeorgeR@10:19
    ” I would still not want to fund any illegal aliens’ healthcare”
    You still have the problem of basing a large part of the population’s health system on the emergency room.
    My guess is that the amount of political power gained by illegal aliens in California will always nudge them towards being considered citizens in terms of benefits. As non-voters it’s a bit odd that they have political input, but blood is thicker than water as they say, and the people who are the same ethnic group as the aliens will always favor their cousins over their co-citizens. It’s the human condition.
    Attempting to design a welfare state without borders is an interesting problem. No doubt Mr. Emery can google up a solution to that one. Perhaps the new Obamacare could be applied worldwide.

    Like

  42. George Rebane Avatar

    Scenes 626am – My 1019pm was not meant to be a full healthcare system design. Until we control the illegal alien population by restricting their opportunities to get free services and aggressively deport them, NOTHING will work in our public services.

    Like

  43. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    George
    I agree that healthcare for alleged illegal immigrants has to be looked at. However we are a compassionate culture and would not likely ignore human suffering. Some have been in this country for 20 years or more and deserve to be an accepted as American citizens and since many have been taxpayers and workers her and have raised families, that factor has to be considered. Not an easy problem to solve.

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  44. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 847am – We continue to circle this barn. Enshrining criminal paths to citizenship while borders are porous is a clear symptom of the coming end of America as a sovereign nation-state, let alone as the democratic republic we inherited from our Founders and forebears. That America’s Left has that on its agenda (Agenda21) is no longer contestable. America can now secede from the Union using only the ‘compassion’ you highlight as the means for ending it all.

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  45. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    What is the alternative George? Dying people the streets or flying sick people out of the country and dumping them somewhere they may not have ever lived? It’s a very difficult problem and I don’t have an easy answer. A clear pathway to citizenship for those who have been good residents is a reasonable and compassionate beginning to solving the problem.

    Like

  46. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: Paul Emery | 11 July 2017 at 09:11 AM
    What is the alternative George?

    Making sure that it’s known that non citizens won’t receive the same consideration as citizens. Like the rest of the world does.
    Dying people the streets or flying sick people out of the country and dumping them somewhere they may not have ever lived?
    See Item 1
    It’s a very difficult problem and I don’t have an easy answer.
    The whine of the progressive…..”It would be so much easier for me to assuage my progressive conscience if you meanies would stop pointing out the downsides to all my wishes.”
    A clear pathway to citizenship for those who have been good residents is a reasonable and compassionate beginning to solving the problem.
    ….and then he proposes what he wants contradicting his previous statement. How about, pivoting off yesterdays not wanting to foot the bill for public education (a perfectly reasonable position to hold I might add!) that the childless refrain from making policy that will have lasting impacts long after they’re under the dirt!

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  47. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 911am – I note again that you followed the Left’s storyline in your response – not a concern for continued porous borders. So for those leftwingers who give me the only choice of losing America vs illegals dying in the streets or being shipped out, I vote for keeping America as the sovereign democratic republic we inherited from our forebears through their hard work and untold sacrifices. This is my easy answer to the problem you pose. (And I’ll bet the ranch that when the word quickly gets out that they’re dying in the streets and being deported, the onslaught will become a manageable trickle.)

    Like

  48. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    George
    I’d like to remind you that our forefathers were indeed undocumented immigrants that rebelled against the establishment of the time.

    Like

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