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[All those vilifying President Trump should read the latest essay by historian and commentator Victor Davis Hanson on a whole new look at the role of this president in our life and times (here).  gjr]

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244 responses to “Sandbox – 22apr18”

  1. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    So jonnie boy – what is your logic? You disagree but offer no actual proposal.
    What is your accepted rate of kill? 5 round clips? A 6 shooter in each hand would have knocked off more than 4 people. A petrol bomb lobbed could do in even more folks.
    You’re great at throwing rocks, but have nothing concrete to offer. What is your acceptable rate of kill with rental trucks?
    Is it any wonder we’re laughing at you?

    Like

  2. Don Bessee Avatar
    Don Bessee

    The hits just keep a commin’
    The Columbia law professor James Comey used as a go-between last year to leak the contents of sensitive memos to the media confirmed to Fox News on Tuesday that he previously worked as a “special government employee” (SGE) for Comey’s FBI on an unpaid basis.
    The professor, Daniel Richman, confirmed the special status in response to an inquiry from Fox News, while referring other questions, including on the scope of his work, to the FBI.
    “I did indeed have SGE status with the Bureau (for no pay),” Richman wrote in an email.
    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/04/24/comeys-memo-leak-contact-had-special-government-employee-status-at-fbi.html
    😉

    Like

  3. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    scenes, the thing that gets me about arbitrary magazine size restrictions is that if someone with malice aforethought is scheming to kill lots of people, one, they won’t care about the minor crime of having a large magazine if they’re planning on dying in the commission of the murders, and two, even if they can’t get enough real big ones, they’ll have plenty of smaller ones on hand. It’s likely someone with one rifle or pistol, caught unawares with barely enough time to pick up their gun, will not have even one extra magazine on hand, let alone a bag full of them.
    George 607pm, no one I’ve read besides you is arguing “par force” when it comes to the 2nd. That’s not half the country. It’s a cringeworthy rhetorical tactic that will not persuade anyone who isn’t already on your side.
    Seven years ago (My post was: Greg Goodknight | 22 November 2011 at 10:59 PM) you wrote you’d not heard of the 2nd being read as if the first word was “Because”, and I provided you with a link to the following passage. The link I used then is dead but I did find a fresh one:
    “Few parts of the Constitution are invoked as often as the
    Second Amendment. Politics aside, the meaning of the Second
    Amendment is relatively clear. As the text itself says, “A well
    regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State,
    the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be
    infringed.” Supreme Court Chief Justice Warren Burger wrote
    that the Second Amendment “must be read as though the word
    ‘because’ was the opening word,” as in “[Because] a well regulated
    Militia [is] necessary to the security of a free State.”
    Download from here: https://scholarship.law.stjohns.edu/lawreview/vol77/iss1/1/
    The quote above can be found on page 4.
    George, I take it you’ve been refining your par force argument for thirty years… perhaps it’s time to look to the legal literature which has caught up and passed you.

    Like

  4. George Rebane Avatar

    Gregory 822pm – We’re circling the barn. To what I have given ‘par force’ as a working label is exactly the the seminal part of the 2nd that half the country holds dear, even though they don’t use that label to summarize their belief. You are focused on my use of the label and not the principle for which it is a referent. And every argument you have given supports this principle. If the 2nd doesn’t permit citizens to possess and bear appropriate arms to “shoot the tyrant” (e.g. per Napolitano), then the 2nd is but empty words. I will continue using ‘par force’ for that principle until someone suggests something better, a task for which you have yet to step up. And if we don’t agree on the seminal principle behind the 2nd, then our conversation is over.
    BTW, you’re the only one in 30 years who has been told what ‘par force’ denotes (I could have used ‘daisy powder’ instead) who has decided to divert the discussion into one of previously accepted labels instead of continuing with what the 2nd really means and how it is perceived by people who support that amendment. So be it.
    And pray, what legal literature has passed me in this regard?

    Like

  5. Don Bessee Avatar
    Don Bessee

    Now being a capitalist who tells the truth about Marxists is a snowflake hate crime!
    The liberal thought police at the University of California-Merced have accused Campus Republicans and other conservatives of a “campaign of harassment and intimidation” including such crimes as hanging MAGA posters, saying “white lives matter, too,” carrying signs reading “Only 2 Genders,” and making “anti-Marxist arguments.”
    http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/04/23/college-republicans-denounced-u-cal-anti-marxist-arguments/
    😉

    Like

  6. jon smith Avatar
    jon smith

    Logic seems to be rather fluid in this discourse. I contend, and you disagree, that a killer who has to reload after 10 rounds is far less likely to kill a passel of waffle eaters than one who has 30 round clips taped back to back. This was soundly demonstrated a few days ago. You claim this is not the case, but make no effort to justify your position. Please tell us why this guy was less lethal if he had unlimited rounds at his disposal. Maybe he was just a good guy who only wanted to kill four?
    From logical Rebane/Spock I am hearing a troubling amount of emotion trumping any sort of logic. I am guessing that your daughter does not mirror your opinion on this matter.

    Like

  7. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    If I’m the only one who has pushed back in the 30 years you’ve been selling the idea, perhaps others either weren’t up on the 2nd before talking to you, or were too polite to tell you what they really thought. In any case, if after 30 years NO ONE ELSE is using the term, perhaps NO ONE ELSE thinks it has utility.
    Nice attempt at gaslighting, George; everyone else you’re revealed the term to has rejected it? What’s wrong with me?
    George, where have I ‘diverted the discussion into one of previous accepted labels’? It isn’t about labels, it’s the logic of the law and your choice of arguments. A new label for your idea of “par force” is not something I’d bother to craft… it’s the role of the idea behind “par force” that is the problem, not
    You keep wanting a label to use instead of par force. It isn’t the inadequacy of the label you’ve chosen, it’s the concept and the uselessness of preaching to the choir when the glee club outside is running rings around you for the past century… until Scalia and the Supremes, who managed to pull the 2nd into the modern age along with the 1st, 3rd, 4th, 5th amendments, in accordance with the 14th.
    Any gun able to fire a modern round would manage to slow down or stop a tyrant. In order to discuss what the amendment means, start with the words of the amendment, not “par force”. It’s a useless appendage you’ve grafted onto a truly beautiful statement of Constitutional law.
    ps to mandersonation/”jon smith”/Michael P. Anderson
    So why stop at 10 rounds? A maximum of 5, or 3, or 2 rounds would make it even easier to stop someone trying to shoot.

    Like

  8. Don Bessee Avatar
    Don Bessee

    @107 It will be just like the LV concert shooter, get a bunch so when they jam you toss it and grab another. How much damage could be done by someone with say four 7 shot .22 revolvers with magnum hollow points or worse nasty home loads. That’s why a good guy with a gun unlike those pussies that work for Sheriff Israel matters. I do believe I recently posted the study done by the feds that was suppressed showing the massive number of protective shootings.
    Then there is this, thanks comrade Hogg –
    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/04/25/nra-breaks-15-year-fundraising-record-according-to-filings.html
    😉

    Like

  9. scenes Avatar
    scenes

    re: DonB@10:56PM
    BUT DON, THEY DON’T HAVE BANANA CLIPS!!!!!111!
    I did run into a chart that explains a lot of the modern world.
    https://imgur.com/r/milliondollarextreme/IY4ZMVx

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  10. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    “I contend, and you disagree, that a killer who has to reload after 10 rounds is far less likely to kill a passel of waffle eaters than one who has 30 round clips taped back to back.”
    So – what is your proposal, jonnie boy?
    We can ‘contend’ all sorts of pie-in-the-sky dreams all day long.
    I ‘contend’ that if we make all the bad things go away, the world will be safer!
    You have to face reality and come up with a workable and sensible regulation or law that will affect the people that want to harm others.
    Going after the 99.9999999% law abiding folks with a useless law that criminals will ignore isn’t helping.

    Like

  11. scenes Avatar
    scenes

    re:ScottO@7:29AM
    Is there some small chance that “who has to reload after 10 rounds ” implies that the perp only has one magazine? Maybe there should be a law only allowing people to own one magazine? lol. Hell if I know, this whole argument has Paul scrawled all over it. Illogic combined with an uncanny ability to take over the conversation, imagine his poor (and probably ex-) wife. (as a side-note to Jon/Paul, taping magazines together is 99% a Hollywood thing).
    I see that the Blue Wave has begun.
    http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/04/24/blue-wave-fizzles-as-ap-declares-republican-winner-of-arizona-special-congressional-election/

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  12. Marillyn Lock-Heed Avatar
    Marillyn Lock-Heed

    ,,,oh dear,,,the 2nd amendment 21 century translators and intrepreters are really grasping at straws here,,,
    trying hard to equate the registration guns,,,limiting magazine capacity,,,prohibiting accessories like bump stocks,,,an so on to… ”’THEY WANT TO TAKE OUR GUNS AWAY,,,WAAAAAA!!!
    grow up boys!!!

    Like

  13. Walt Avatar

    OK numbnuts, tell how gun registration curtails crime and criminal activity? How will you get criminals to register those stolen and “illegal” weapons?
    Nope,, you can’t .

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  14. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    “trying hard to equate the registration guns,,,limiting magazine capacity,,,prohibiting accessories like bump stocks,,,an so on to… ”’THEY WANT TO TAKE OUR GUNS AWAY,,,WAAAAAA!!!”
    Considering that it’s already happening, it appears you’re not trying hard enough.
    Perhaps that much thought is beyond your ability.

    Like

  15. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    “Poundland (the British equivalent of a dollar store) announced last week that it will no longer sell kitchen knives in any of its 850 stores.”
    A year ago, you would have been laughed out of the room for even suggesting it might come to something like this. Now it’s reality.
    https://reason.com/archives/2018/04/24/londoners-embrace-knife-control
    We can work on the root cause or just go after the method used.
    And the body count continues to climb.

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  16. Walt Avatar

    Doug should know all about law breaking. getting caught trying to pirate movies with a video camera, Even bragged about contracting without a licence, with an unregistered gross polluter of a tractor.(refused to register said tractor with CARB )
    Now what was that excuse again Dougy??

    Like

  17. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Arizona special election won by a Republican woman. The left and the democrats beaten again. Somehow the media is trying to make this victory a defeat. No wonder the people hate the media.

    Like

  18. Walt Avatar

    I’m sure Paul hobbles in to see just what is being said,, so,,,
    remember when Paul was against registering dope grows? Yet no problem with gun registration.
    Nice double standard… Again.

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  19. George Rebane Avatar

    jons 1007pm – Not a mind reader, so I don’t know whether or how much of this was meant for me. Mr smith has yet to master how to address different commenters on specific threads in a multi-threaded comment stream. I believe he will eventually learn, but who knows.
    On the part that did reference me, I can only say that he guessed wrong about my daughter.
    gregory 1013pm – ‘par force’ has not been either promoted or “sold” for 30 years, only used as a convenient label for the described 2nd Amendment principle in private communications. (To the public, I first introduced on RR.) A principle which now I understand you do not consider to be seminal to the amendment. In that case I find it odd that you and others are still debating magazine sizes, rates of fire, and other firearm functions. If all it needs to do is push out an occasional highly regulated projectile at somewhere around 1kft/sec, then all these discussions should be moot if par force is ignored. But I am reminded of Gen Patton ascribing the critical role played by the M-1 Garand to its ability to pump out 8 high caliber rounds in under 5 seconds and then quickly reload and do it again. The Germans and Japanese agreed.
    But I trust that you will understand to which mis/conception of the 2nd Amendment I refer in my future use of ‘par force’.

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  20. George Rebane Avatar

    Walt 1140am – And interesting science factoid about bodies rotating around each other (they actually rotate around their mutual center of mass). All bodies, orbiting around another especially more massive body, that spin on their own axes have spin rates decaying to the point when ultimately they will be permanently facing each other. The smaller of the masses’ spin rates decay faster and go into what’s known as ‘tidal rotation’, spinning at the same rate that they rotate around their more massive partner. The moon started doing that with earth eons ago, and we, of course, are following suit being influenced by both the moon and the sun. But there’s a good chance that earth will be swallowed by our dying sun before we go into a tidal spin with ol’ Sol.

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  21. scenes Avatar
    scenes

    re: GeorgeR@12:33PM
    You got me to thinking about tidal locking. Once a tidal lock is reached, does the orbital period become static? What is required for a lock like Mercury’s? Eccentric orbits maybe?
    If nothing else, I’ll bet that there’s some sort of gravity waves given off by bodies rotating each other that would cause energy to go out of the system.
    I should just look it up, but I’m on the run today.

    Like

  22. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    George 1025am, to pick a nit, it’s just “U.S. Rifle, Caliber 30, M1”. M1, no dash, no Garand (rhymes with errand) in the official designation.
    The 30 caliber round is, of course, the venerable .30-06, developed for the Springfield rifle in 1906.
    The M1 is a rifle in common use, with surplus given to the DCM for sale to civilians for a relative pittance. I have one and there are literally millions of them… 5.5 million were made during their long production run and when the US Army and Marines entered the WWII fracas, it was “the greatest implement of battle ever devised”, at least for the battles Patton excelled at.
    It is commonly owned by civilians in the USA and commonly used for lawful purposes. That’s all that is required to pass the Miller/Heller test. “Par Force” has little to nothing to do with the application pr the understanding of the 2nd Amendment.
    There are literally 10’s of millions of magazines that hold more than 10 rounds, owned by millions of Americans, yet misuse by a handful of people bent on mass murder (I can count them on the fingers of one hand) has been used to demonize them. Not to get into the weeds, but the appeal of the stay of California’s large (greater than 10 rounds) magazine ban by Judge Benitez (Duncan et al v. Beccerra, case 17-56081) will hear oral arguments in the Appeals Court of the 9th District in three weeks, May 14th, in ‘Frisco. My guess is it will take time to get to the SCOTUS and it won’t be over until then no matter what the Appeals court rules.
    George, in the meantime, I’ll trust you’ll keep your blind spot, eyes wide shut.

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  23. Walt Avatar

    Yes, things do slow down. Yet when the BIG quake in Japan hit, we gains a little speed out of the deal.(and knocked off the axis a tad)
    I just find the excuses from the ECO nuts get wilder by the year.

    Like

  24. George Rebane Avatar

    Gregory 120pm – Thanks for the nit-tutoring. I qualified with that M1, shot 249/250 on the classical KD range 100-500yds with iron sights, and set a record in field strip and re-assemble, blindfolded in 49 seconds. Have owned one for years, and also shoot the 30-06 in my scoped Remington 700. (In the military I qualified as ‘Expert’ with every weapon I touched.) I have been a firearms instructor for almost as long as you’ve been alive, and continue practicing it and running shooters to this day on live firing ranges.
    And I maintain, and these pages along with millions of written words (from Founders to current jurists) prove, that it is the principle I have labeled par force that has EVERYTHING to do with the 2nd Amendment’s maintenance of our gun rights. Were that not so, Americans everywhere would have quietly acceded to every firearms rollback that the Left has promulgated over the last 70+ years – duck and deer hunting doesn’t require much. I’m glad we’re both so confident in our respective positions.

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  25. George Boardman Avatar

    Dr. R: You probably won’t believe this, but I qualified as “Expert” with the M14 in basic training. Then again, I haven’t shot a gun since I got out of the Army in 1968.

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  26. Walt Avatar

    Relive those days Boardman,, get yourself a PlayStation or Xbox, grab the latest Call of Duty game and show the kids a thing or two.
    I get may ass kicked by 12 year olds if not youger. (Yup, still play online too)
    Have the easy chair shoved up closer to the flat screen just to get a better view. Play later at night so the drugs and alcohol the kids are taking gives me a better edge.
    Yup,, you will feel plenty older real quick.

    Like

  27. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Yes the Republican woman won in Arizona as expected but by a much smaller margin than Trumps win which shows decline in the
    Republican base of support. Trump won by twenty in that district and I believe the winning candidate won by just 5 or so. Besides the Pubsters had to spend a million on that race they didn’t originally budget for because it was so close. These things cause much worry for the Republican pollsters.
    “Republicans’ single-digit victory in Tuesday’s special election in Arizona is raising more red flags for the party’s prospects in the November midterms, as Democrats continue to overperform in solidly GOP seats.
    Former state Sen. Debbie Lesko (R) defeated Democrat Hiral Tipirneni by a slim 5-point margin, a closer-than-expected win for Republicans in a district that President Trump carried by 21 points in the 2016 election.
    That result has Republicans fretting about protecting their fragile House majority, where they’ll be defending swing- and GOP-leaning seats that will be much tougher to compete in than Arizona’s 8th District.
    Democrats need to flip 23 seats in the fall to take back the lower chamber.
    “It keeps going back to the narrative that it’s just going to be a tough year for the GOP,” Mike Noble, a GOP strategist and pollster based in Arizona, told The Hill.”
    http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/384832-election-experts-see-warning-signs-for-gop-after-arizona-election

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  28. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    A win is a win Paul Emery. I won elections by 132 votes and 49 votes. Laurie Oberholtzer lost by one vote. You liberals are trying to dampen the win but it will not work.

    Like

  29. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Uh Oh, Mr. Free press George Boardman is deleting my moderated comments on his blog now. He does not like people giving him back the crap he likes to dish out. What a hypocrite.

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  30. Paul Emery Avatar

    Todd
    Once again
    “It keeps going back to the narrative that it’s just going to be a tough year for the GOP,” Mike Noble, a GOP strategist and pollster based in Arizona, told The Hill.”

    Like

  31. George Rebane Avatar

    GeorgeB 323pm – Why would I not believe you Mr Boardman, you’re an honorable man – of course you qualified Expert with the M14, you wouldn’t say if you didn’t.

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  32. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    Paul at 5:21 – “…it’s just going to be a tough year for the GOP…”
    And it’s going to get tougher. The Dems being the party of ‘free stuff for everyone’ will definitely have the advantage for ever now that we’re allowing the 3rd world to flood into our nation with no acculturation or education of our founding principles.
    Add to that the growing amount of uneducated idiots from our govt school system and we have the perfect set up for total govt control over our lives.
    The problem in the long term is that China already has the system formally in place and they don’t have to screw with the Multi-Kulti horse shit the west has been embracing. China is everything you lefties don’t like about Trump on steroids and yet you haven’t got a clue. The largest ecological disaster in the Pacific is done right in your face and the left just looks away.
    Don’t worry – you’ll have your Cheetos and 179 channels of crap to watch on TV.
    They’ll even let you host ‘art’ events in Grass Valley as long as you don’t run afoul of the thought police.

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  33. Walt Avatar

    The “blue wave” Paul,, the BLUE WAVE!!!. It was supposed to start in AZ. Just last week LIBS were already counting winning votes.
    Yet the proggys are still saying “CNN tried to spin Tuesday’s special election in Arizona’s 8th congressional district as “still good for Democrats,”
    http://dailycaller.com/2018/04/25/cnn-spins-democrat-loss-in-arizona/
    Yes,, look on the bright side.. You get to hang with a new rope.
    Kinda reminds me of the first midterm of “O”. LIBS “won” one race out of all of them,, yet claimed victory. “WE WON” -Nancy Peloci
    If LIBS hadn’t ,, it would have been a clean sweep of epic proportions.
    I guess you forget those days.

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  34. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    “Then again, I haven’t shot a gun since I got out of the Army in 1968.”
    Probably a lot of other things you haven’t done since 1968.
    I wouldn’t brag about it if I were you.

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  35. Walt Avatar

    Oh.. Yes,,, Didn’t you say something about midterm turnouts not looking good for the Right? All we need is one more than the proggys get.

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  36. Paul Emery Avatar

    Historically mid terms are not kind to the incumbent party. You know that Walt.

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  37. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    Kali-fornia does it again!
    https://calwatchdog.com/2018/04/19/poor-test-scores-raise-new-doubts-about-landmark-2013-school-finance-law/
    Just how much money does it take to get to the bottom?
    “But a deeper dive into the data showed that California fourth-graders scored worse on math than any state but Alaska. Poor scores by African-American students caught the eye of Ryan Smith, executive director of the Education-Trust West. “At a time when California is claiming to lead on issues of what’s right in our country, we should see black students improve at far greater rates, not sliding back decades,” he told EdSource.”
    C’mon Kali – we can be the worst! We’re almost there. Just a few more billion and I bet we can do it!
    And who runs the state?
    Bush? Trump?
    Bueller?

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  38. George Rebane Avatar

    Can someone explain why it pays to disabuse the liberal claiming a win from a loss? It seems to me that it would be much better to agree with such a claimant, and let him wallow in his ‘victory’ instead of convincing him of his error so as to inspire him to work harder in the future. It’s better to discuss with him about where and how to hang the bunting for their forthcoming Blue Wave party. Good fun all around.

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  39. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    “Historically mid terms are not kind to the incumbent party. You know that Walt.”
    Yet if the Dems do well, Paul will be the first to show up here and crow about Trump being denounced by the nation.
    Paul is in the show business. Fill the seats. If an ‘artist’ just shows up and swills beer for an hour and the audience swoons, it’s a success.
    There are no basic principles or morals. If it sells tickets, go with the flow.

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  40. Walt Avatar

    Now I have to pay the good Dr. another bottle of exotic 90 proof for schooling and slap upside the head.(yup, had that one coming.)
    I have been shown the error of my ways. ( then do it all over again next week)

    Like

  41. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    George, nice apology there for your fuzzy recollection of the M1 terminology.
    So… how does that “par force” account for .22 Short target pistols that have virtually no relationship to “par force”? Or ,22LR repeaters? double barreled shotguns? Or my dad’s childhood gallery gun, a .22 rimfire pump action. There’s no way to cover that under a “par force” interpretation, is there?
    Regarding heavy machine guns, light machine guns, “silencers”, short shotguns, etc. They are regulated by the NFA of 1934. Without fully automatic weapons, how would “par force” be achieved?
    Personally, I think the issue of exclusions by the states (like California) that have chosen NOT to participate in granting NFA weapon approvals to civilians not involved in movie and TV productions to possess could eventually be overcome as the courts unravel the Gordian incorporation knots, but that will take time. Longer if people make “par force” arguments to stiffen the opposition.

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  42. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    Paul…
    By my reading of fivethirtyeight before the AZ special election, they thought it would be neck and neck, too close to call. A nailbiter.
    The GOP candidate won by 6% and it was called in about an hour.

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  43. George Boardman Avatar

    Re Todd’s 4:57: Free speech doesn’t mean I have to post any incoherent rant you send to my blog. It’s called editing, and I’ve done enough of it to know crap when I read it.

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