Rebane's Ruminations
January 2018
S M T W T F S
 123456
78910111213
14151617181920
21222324252627
28293031  

ARCHIVES


OUR LINKS


YubaNet
White House Blog
Watts Up With That?
The Union
Sierra Thread
RL “Bob” Crabb
Barry Pruett Blog

George Rebane

No matter what he actually said in that White House meeting on immigration policy, President Trump has again focused a policy discussion on a crux of the matter instead of continuing the same ol’ same ol’ circling of the barn.  I don’t want to debate whether he actually said “shithole country” as the press is attributing, but I hope he did if it gets us off the dime in deciding who should be let in to serve America’s interests as a sovereign and sustainable nation-state.

Because this is a family-oriented blog (hah!), and in the ensuing discussion we will want to continue using that colorful descriptor without gratuitously sprinkling dirty words all over these pages, I will use the three-letter acronym SHC in the sequel for both expedience and, perhaps, collateral decorum.  Nevertheless, the meaning of that appellation will be made and should remain clear.

Instead of working on a more polished commentary, I decided to quickly anchor my contribution to the topic in a structured list of propositions that I believe are also embraced more or less by other conservetarians.  If they are also Bayesians like me, then their beliefs of the following will range from near zero (impossible) to near unity (certain), and in the process never saying never for either extreme.

Before sallying forth, what Trump really meant to say instead of SHC is ‘third world country’ as pointed out by a reader under the recent ‘Scattershots’, who also provided a link to the UN’s list of third world countries (here).  However, on closer inspection ‘third world country’ does not quite capture the more specific and richer concept of a SHC since not all third world countries are SHCs and some, even European, second world countries (e.g. Belarus and Albania) are SHCs.  Onward to the propositions in no particular order –

  1. No broadly based social benefits can be maintained by a nation without strong economic growth.
  2. Low or stagnant economic growth leads to unrest and authoritarian cum tyrannical governance (always instigated ‘for the common good’).
  3. While case-by-case implementation of public policies is desirable, no country has the resources to sustainably provide that. Therefore, laws regulations, codes are crafted and enforced on the basis of aggregate descriptors of the governed cohorts.
  4. There is no historical evidence that desirable and transplantable social orders can survive within stagnant economies (i.e. such benevolent stasisms are popular in fairy tales and myths).
  5. America was founded primarily on the extension and spread of western culture. When formerly we welcomed immigrants, it was understood that the arriving “wretched refuse” departed from the “teeming shores” of Europe.  No one then wanted to throw open our doors to Asians, Africans, Latinos, or even the swarthy people of the Mideast and Arab countries.
    • Therefore, race (i.e. physical appearance) was the easy aggregate descriptor used to define and expediently sort out the desirables from the undesirables.
  6. Sentient life (i.e. critters that can remember and form pictures of likely futures) exhibits Bayesian behaviors. They decide things on the basis of prior experience (personal and learned knowledge) and aggregated evidence (e.g. in the form of summarizations and/or learned stereotypes).
  7. Individual freedoms within a cohort or community are always a tradeoff within some acceptable level of security, given the level of perceived danger. Corollary – freedom and security are zero-sum benefits within a social order.
  8. A culture is identifiable as a collection of beliefs and behavioral norms held dear and valued by a given population. Beliefs include a common ontology and shared view of the past (history).  Behaviors include language, dress, social practices (commercial, familial, entertainment, …).  The overarching purpose is to live in a selectively supportive society that allows members to reliably predict each other’s behaviors.  Different cultures have adopted different tradeoffs between individual freedoms and social security.  Cultures should be viewed as implementations of collectively held social insurance for a secure and predictable future, whose premiums paid by the beneficiaries are the publicly visible cultural norms they practice.
  9. SHCs are countries that inhabit the repressive, ignorant, stagnant, and economically poor end of the spectrum of nations. Most SHCs can be found among what are commonly identified as third world countries, with some seen as second world countries.
  10. People tend to help the poor and needy, not so much with the expectation to eliminate poverty and need, but to confirm ourselves as participating members of a benevolent social order that will also nurture us should our fortunes fail. In short, more of that social security insurance.
  11. Nature abhors universal definitions of ‘good’ (i.e. utility). All utilities (measures of ‘good’) are in some fashion localized, and the more localized, the more achievable.  In the natural order, local achievements network naturally to create greater and mutually supportive communities of commonly held good (i.e. supporting the increase of a more comprehensive utility).
  12. Enforced multi-culturalism does not work. Peaceful cultures compete and naturally evolve through mutually beneficial intercourse.  In war stronger cultures destroy, deform, and/or disperse weaker cultures.
  13. No successful country has ever intentionally attracted or established lasting counter-cultures within its domain. Successful immigration has always involved importation of industrious and assimilating foreigners.  (Possible exception: Peter the Great inviting Germans to bring west European culture to the Russian countryside, develop commerce, and manage agricultural estates.  However, the norm is more like the attitudes Mexico, Switzerland, and Saudi Arabia have toward immigration.)
  14. Humans, individually and as members of established groups, are measurably different. In short, we can forensically identify unique individuals and groups.
  15. A litmus test for SHC qualification is that its citizens overwhelmingly want to emigrate.

[13jan18 update]  Not much on immigration debate has come from the Left, and that specifically includes the local Left as witnessed by the comment stream below.  Now one of their leading lights – our political cartoonist RL Bob Crabb – has entered the fray with his contribution.  In other more measured offerings Mr Crabb laments on the polarization and quality of debate in the land, seeking always to promote himself as the voice of bipartisan and dispassionate reason astride the mindless froth that issues from both sides of the proverbial road.  I suppose in his tally, offerings like the one below are not included. Another commenting reader in an exuberant expression of joyous approval of Mr Crabb has appended “Nailed it!!!”  Such is the nature of our national dialogue.

RLCrabb180113

Posted in , , , , , ,

278 responses to “On Immigration and ‘S#!thole Countries’ (updated 13jan18)”

  1. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    So then Gregory you agree that Trump is lying when he says he never used that language.
    “”The language used by me at the DACA meeting was tough, but this was not the language used. What was really tough was the outlandish proposal made – a big setback for DACA!” Trump tweeted.”

    Like

  2. George Rebane Avatar

    Back to the TDS two-step – dum-de-dum-dumb.

    Like

  3. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: MAGA CoVfefe! | 13 January 2018 at 12:41 PM
    Caretaker not around to help you?

    Like

  4. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    Never used what language, Paul… the “shithole” word or the fill-ins for blah blah blah you and others have added? Trump didn’t specify.
    Sorry I can’t help you in your Trump hunt.

    Like

  5. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Well George don’t you think it’s important for the President of the United states to be truthful and honest to the American people. what he said was incredibly stupid and counterproductive to any meaningful discussion. All he had to do was say yes I said that and I regret the language I used.
    Odd RR contributors didn’t give Hillary the same latitude when she was incredibly stupid and used the Deplorables wording.

    Like

  6. Bill Tozer Avatar

    Russ @ 12:30 pm
    Thank you. Good find. Great read and great writing. Thankyou again, sir.
    Now, let’s not get distracted here and kindly turn our undivided attention upon feigned moral outrage, aka, “Back to the TDS two-step – dum-de-dum-dumb”.

    Like

  7. Bill Tozer Avatar

    We have to end chain migration.
    Canada does not allow old granny or Uncle Sally or adult children in either,, just the worker and…eventually, their spouse and child upon proving over a probationary period of time that the worker can indeed take care of and financially support the spouse and child. Family unification means flying home to attend family reunions.
    “While asking Congress to pass the expansive and failed “DREAM Act” amnesty, which would start by legalizing millions of illegal aliens, Durbin touted the fact that the legislation at the time would have ended chain migration, preventing newly amnestied illegal aliens from bringing their extended family members to the U.S.
    The DREAM Act would not allow what is known as chain migration,” Durbin said. “In fact, DREAM Act students would have very limited ability to sponsor their family members for legal status.” [Emphasis added]
    http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/01/12/watch-dick-durbin-advocated-for-ending-chain-migration-in-2010-a-term-he-now-says-is-racist/

    Like

  8. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: Paul Emery | 13 January 2018 at 01:19 PM
    Odd RR contributors didn’t give Hillary the same latitude when she was incredibly stupid and used the Deplorables wording.

    Funny…..I don’t remember any consternation on your part when Hillary said those things!

    Like

  9. Bill Tozer Avatar

    SHC an excuse to avoid talks about immigration reform? Nay, that can’t be. Probably just some fakenews pushed forth by the Vast Right Wing Russian Aided Conspiracy spreading its lies again.
    Exhibit 1:
    http://www.breitbart.com/radio/2018/01/12/lamar-smith-democrats-using-shole-comments-distraction-excuse-avoid-talks/
    🙂

    Like

  10. Walt Avatar

    “Truthful and honest”? Trump Has been doing just that.
    No way can the same be said about Hillary, “O”, Bubba, and Proggys in general.
    Even Doug hides behind a fake name.(MANY of them)

    Like

  11. Bill Tozer Avatar

    Fish @ 2:11 pm.
    The obvious difference is that My Gal referred specifically to Trump supporters. “Half of Trump supporters” are a basket full of Deplorables…. then on to describe the other half, being racists, sexist, homophobic, Islamophobic, mysognist….blah, blah, blah. Nothing that our Enlightened Ones standing on their Pedestal of Righteous Morality have not hurled at us knuckledraggers often and over a long period of time….with glee and every chance they got. The only thing new Hillary said were the glorious words “deplorables” and the even lower esteemed “Irredeemables.”
    No offense taken, Hillary. We proudly got on board and proudly shared our Deplorable buttons, action figures, and memes with one another…with glee. A truly unifying moment.
    Contrary to public opinion, My Gal gave her Basket Full Of DeplorableS (plural) speech twice. Once on a Sunday afternoon on a small local Spanish speaking TV station. Since there was no pushback and since she is amazingly politically tone deaf, her team thought it would be a great idea to repeat those lines on a Tuesday…to a bigger audience. She seemed so happy reciting the punch lines. Then she said she was referring only to Donald Trump, not his shitty supporters, lol. Sure Hillary, anything you say…
    The other difference is that Trump was referring to foreign nations and far off regions, while Hillary was referring specifically to US citizens whom she disagreed with. She singled out people, American people. Trump singled open latrine countries, not his fellow countrymen. Hillary dissed Americans, human beings of certain political beliefs she disagreed with, if you will.
    Guess that means Trump took the high road.

    Like

  12. Scenes Avatar
    Scenes

    “Everyone, near enough, knows that he was telling a home truth. It was outrageous not because he said something crude that was untrue. Quite the contrary: it was outrageous precisely because it was true but intolerable to progressive sensitivities.”
    I admit that that is a nice turn of phrase.
    It would be amazing to thing of Trumpism as merely the tearing down of the scaffolding of Green Libertarian falsehoods. Where do you end up when everybody, not only the Emperor, is made bare?
    It’s madness I tell you. Sturgeon’s Law applied to 50 years of Western political thinking.

    Like

  13. Scenes Avatar
    Scenes

    Mr Fish referring to Saint Paul: “Funny…..I don’t remember any consternation on your part when Hillary said those things!”
    It’s because he didn’t vote for her the second time.

    Like

  14. MAGA CoVfefe! Avatar
    MAGA CoVfefe!

    Norwegians,,,Slovenians,,,Czechoslovakians …good…Brown,,,Black,,,Yellow people countries…Shitholes!!!!
    Racist!!!

    Like

  15. Bonnie McGuire Avatar

    It’s pretty obvious this SHC preoccupation is just another distraction to cause disruption in America. Anyone paying attention to our world history knows America has been helping those countries for 100 years. The problem has always been corrupt leaders and internal wars destroying progress…especially Africa. I remember a farmer’s former employee begging him to restore his farm after they destroyed it. He replied that he was too old, and if he did some Communist would incite them to do it all over again. Not many years ago the Human Rights people begged the United Nations to stop the continual killing in Africa. The UN said they’d look into it. Finally they did and claimed the killing was merely ethnic cleansing. What about human rights? Wasn’t it called genocide in Germany? Ever see the movie “Behind the Gate?” Or have you read “Out of America” by the Journalist assigned to report on the progress in Africa. He was thrilled to be going there until he saw all the butchered bodies of men women and children clogging the river…and being scrutinized that he was black enough, nose wide enough to be allowed to live. He was thankful his ancestors came to America as slaves, or he wouldn’t have had a chance. Not much media coverage on any of this by those who claim to love people. Also, money America gave to improve the country’s living conditions wound up in a Swiss bank, and the former Leader building himself a retirement mansion in another country. Sound familiar? I wonder if the next big breaking news story about Trump (and family) will be what brand of toilet tissue they use…Pretty hard cleaning out the “entitled” who created and inhabit our own swamp after so many years.
    I hope President Trump and sincere helpers can accomplish his goal to make America wonderful. What’s wrong with that?

    Like

  16. Scenes Avatar
    Scenes

    “I remember a farmer’s former employee begging him to restore his farm after they destroyed it. He replied that he was too old, and if he did some Communist would incite them to do it all over again. ”
    Hopefully he wasn’t a Rhodesian.

    Like

  17. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    MAGA CoVfefe! | 13 January 2018 at 03:04 PM
    Since we import legally and illegally about 20-1 brown and black people over whites, how does that square ith your hysterical screed about racism against the “colors” over the whites? Should it not be reversed to make your claim valid?

    Like

  18. fish Avatar
    fish

    …..Brown,,,Black,,,Yellow
    The contents of the diaper Doug? Probably want to have the “black” checked by a doctor.

    Like

  19. Walt Avatar

    Todd. It goes to show that covfefe didn’t think through his new name. Go back to clueless. “covfefe” means,,,(OH your going to love this) “Kofefe: pregnant but in fear of it.”
    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/the-meaning-of-the-word-covfefe-in-the-samoan-language_us_592f0f0ae4b017b267edff7e
    And in other places “he” goes by “Cofefe is my slave name”.
    Keep up the good laughs at your expense Dougy….

    Like

  20. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Didn’t vote for or support Hillary Fish.

    Like

  21. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    She only ran once Scenes. thought you knew that

    Like

  22. Bill Tozer Avatar

    Guess 2008 didn’t count.
    Those who are easily offended are easily manipulated.

    Like

  23. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: Paul Emery | 13 January 2018 at 03:45 PM
    No but you certainly didn’t support Trump yet you spare no effort criticizing his
    speech! I thought that you were the self appointed speech monitor for politicians aspiring to the presidency!

    Like

  24. MAGA CoVfefe! Avatar
    MAGA CoVfefe!

    Afraid to acknowledge Trumpedy’s making the distinction between Norway and Shithole countries ToddJ???

    Like

  25. Don Bessee Avatar
    Don Bessee

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/12/world/europe/trump-immigration-outrage.html
    So when President Trump said he did not want immigrants from “shithole” countries, there was ringing silence across broad parts of the European Union, especially in the east, and certainly no chorus of condemnation.
    Reality check. 😉

    Like

  26. George Rebane Avatar

    To counter PaulE’s denials of supporting Hillary, one need only read a smattering (yes, just a dab’ll do ya) of his 2016 assessments and exhortations of Hillary, her qualifications, chances, proud polling numbers, … contrasted with what he dished out to The Donald. I guarantee you’ll finish that little research of these comment streams with a smile on your face.

    Like

  27. Don Bessee Avatar
    Don Bessee

    Is it the location or the leftie administrate that makes it a shithole?
    http://www.breitbart.com/london/2018/01/13/sad-khan-protesters-disrupt-mayors-speech-londoners-wake-sadiqs-shthole/
    despite claims by Khan in March 2017 that London is “the safest global city in the world, and one of the safest cities in the world,” the latest crime statistics show youth homicides are up by an astonishing 70 per cent.
    Total homicides are up by 27.1 per cent, serious youth violence 19 per cent, robbery 33.4 per cent, and burglaries 18.7 per cent, among a host of other double-digit rises.
    😉

    Like

  28. Don Bessee Avatar
    Don Bessee

    &$(#()^ auto correct, administration. 😉

    Like

  29. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    RealClearPolitics linked to this gem of an op-ed at City Journal:

    Of Crudeness and Truth
    … I don’t know exactly what Trump said in a closed-door meeting with senators at the White House this week. Unnamed sources say that he referred to some African countries and Haiti as “shitholes.” Maybe so; sounds like him. In any case, when it comes to a chance to attack Trump, our journalists don’t waste time with fact-gathering or source-identifying. Like Madonna, they just strike a pose. Various media knuckleheads have reacted to the alleged comment by calling Trump “racist,” “Nazi,” “Evil,” and a “terrorist sympathizer.”
    (Personally, my first thought on hearing about the remark was: “What squirrely little tattle-tale of a weasel went running to the press with that?” But never mind. That’s just me.)
    Let’s state the obvious. Some countries are shitholes. To claim that this is racist is racist. They are not shitholes because of the color of the populace but because of bad ideas, corrupt governance, false religion, and broken culture. Further, most of the problems in these countries are generated at the top. Plenty of rank-and-file immigrants from such ruined venues ultimately make good Americans—witness those who came from 1840s potato-famine Ireland, a shithole if ever there was one! It takes caution and skill to separate the good from the bad.
    For these very reasons, absurd immigration procedures like chain migration, lotteries, and unvetted entries are deeply destructive. They can lead to the sort of poor choices that create a Rotherham. Trump’s suggestions—to vet immigrants for pro-American ideas and skills that will help our country—are smart and reasonable and would clearly make the system better if implemented. …
    https://www.city-journal.org/html/crudeness-and-truth-15668.html

    For the record (thanks, Paul), the squirrely little tattle-tale of a weasel that went running to the press was little Dick Durbin, Senator D-Illinois.
    I can’t resist this scene from Blazing Saddles!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boO4RowROiw
    A happy ending to a difficult racial divide in a movie that could not be made today.

    Like

  30. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    I believe Hillary ran for President twice, the first time getting beaten in the primaries in 2008 by a young, fresh faced and clean first term Senator from Illinois who gave good teleprompter in the 2004 Dem convention.

    Like

  31. Bill Tozer Avatar

    Gregory @ 4:26 pm
    Sidebar; Thank you. For quite awhile after reading reports from European countries about the continuous roving gangs of rapists terrorizing the good willed countries from Scandinavia to France and beyond, I have been crying out “Where are the men? We’re are the broad shouldered Germen men and the big strong Swedish men protecting their wives, sisters, daughters, and women folk? Where are they?!????!!??”
    Yes, it’s against the law to sleep with a baseball bat under your bed in Sweden. But, that don’t explain the absence of thousands of men across Europe and Britain grouping up outside a pub, then set off to protect and patrol the streets for the safe passage of their countries’ women. “Where the Sam Hill are the European men?” I have repeatily shouted skyward after each and every Muslim Gang lawlessly grabbing, gropping, robbing, and raping women by the dozen in public.
    The article you posted finally answered my question.
    “……. fear of the Nurse Ratcheds in the press and the academy than have him neutered and gagged by a system of good manners that has been misused as a form of oppression.”
    The men of Europe have been neutered. Thank you. My question has been answered.
    To continue with good manners, I would be amiss to fail to mention that every once in a while you post some great links. The Reason article (tying Trump’s victory to the backlash against PC rang quite true by my simple observation of witnessing some lifelong Democrat Only friends voting for Trump) was a gem. There are a couple other gems you have posted, and Russ posted a good one today. Scenes and Fish also dig below the surface to uncover the occasional diamond in the rough.
    If I were to choose just one link you posted that I see in action on a daily basis, it is hands down the Monty Python “argument” skit. Thought of that one a lot reading comments by one poster over the last 24 hours and other days. Hat tip.
    Oh yeah, this whole post is on topic. Immigration….immigrants…Norway!, North Africans…..and how to discuss these issues without stepping into a shithole.

    Like

  32. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Didn’t support her then Gregory

    Like

  33. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    Toes, I appreciate being appreciated. Thanks for the kind words, I do try to be relevant, thoughtful and entertaining.
    Yes, the Argument Sketch is a classic for all time.

    Like

  34. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Somehow Paul Emery thinks we forgot all he has written in support of Hillary Clinton and her ilk on these pages. Never mind he creams his jeans in political lust for her policies and ideas. He always bashes anyone lo the right od Mao.

    Like

  35. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Show me one quote where I supported Hillary Gregory. You mistake my opposition and dusgust with Trump with support for Hillary. Again show me one quote.

    Like

  36. Bill Tozer Avatar

    My, that didn’t take long. Love the Argument Sketch.

    Like

  37. George Rebane Avatar

    What’s it called again when you attack and denigrate one person in a two person race in order to lower that person’s chance of winning, and thereby increase the other person’s chance for winning?

    Like

  38. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    It is called Emeryazation

    Like

  39. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: Paul Emery | 13 January 2018 at 03:45 PM
    Didn’t vote for or support Hillary Fish.

    Punch….any comment why you still carried the water for Hillary here (constant delivery of poll results, unrestrained demonstrations of glee by you about her probable coronation, etc.) after her “deplorables” comment?
    I mean if decorum is so important to you in the at the time likely presidential victor, I would have thought that a comment regarding her statement would have been forthcoming.

    Like

  40. Scenes Avatar
    Scenes

    re: Paul Emery @ 9:25PM
    Yes you did.
    re: Haiti
    I wonder how long it’ll be before NPR pulls this story.
    https://www.npr.org/2017/07/30/540359412/haiti-s-bayakou-hauling-away-human-excrement-by-hand

    Like

  41. Bill Tozer Avatar

    @ 10:58 pm
    Being Tanya Hardingized?

    Like

  42. Walt Avatar

    Paul said this about Hillary.
    “This will seal the deal for Clinton in Virginia.
    ” Former Republican Sen. John Warner endorsed Hillary Clinton on Wednesday, calling her “prepared to be a world leader and the United States president.”

    Like

  43. Walt Avatar

    Another comes out to say,,, “No,, that’s not what was said.”
    http://www.breitbart.com/video/2018/01/14/gop-sen-perdue-gross-misrepresentation-trump-not-make-shithole-comment/
    Before this is all over, it’s LIBS who will be looking up through the sh*t hole as they are waist deep in their “own”. Someone call the pump truck. Proggys need an exit plan.

    Like

  44. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Paul Emery is just delusional about what he does and doesn’t say about the democrats. All his postings favor the dems and excoriate the R’s. And he calls us dumbkoffs.

    Like

  45. Walt Avatar

    Yes Paul,, be careful of what you “demand”.
    Someone just might go looking and find what you really don’t want found. I’m in just that kind of mood today.

    Like

Leave a comment