Sandbox – 12dec14

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Sandbox – 12dec14

12 December 2014

[Many apologies for falling asleep at the switch; this sandbox is long overdue. gjr]

Posted in Comment Sandbox

105 responses to “Sandbox – 12dec14”

Joe Koyote

13 December 2014

FOX NEWS – fair and balanced, where reality depends on what the audience wants to hear.
For example: On 8/6/14 Fox News Channel ran a story about an undocumented immigrant who received a college scholarship based on their “immigration activism.” The headline of the story was “Money for Illegals.” On the same day the same story also ran on Fox News Latino with the headline “In Rare Move, University Grants $22k Scholarship to Undocumented Student.”
When discussing the child refugee issue Fox New’s Megyn Kelly stated (7/16/14) that the reason the children were coming to America was because “they believe they will get asylum, thanks to policy statements by President Obama, and are not, as was claimed, fleeing any increased violence back at home.” That same day Bill O’Reilly stated that the violence in refugee home countries was a “myth that the far left is putting out.”
Fox News Latino had a different version of reality. On 7/20/14 their headline was “A Primer on the Border Crisis—Its Causes, Politics, and the Bickering Among Lawmakers.” This show laid the blame for the sudden influx of immigrant children to the US on “Crime, gang violence, poverty across Central America, and a desire to reunite with parents or other relatives.” Obama’s immigration policy as FNC was trying to put forth.
The question is which version is the truth; The Fox News Channel version for its mostly aging white male audience or the Fox News Latino version for its mostly Spanish speaking audience? Yet another example of our broken and politicized information system.

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Joe Koyote

13 December 2014

Correction — Obama’s immigration policy as FNC was trying to put forth. –should read “Not Obama’s immigration policy as FNC was trying to put forth.”

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Todd Juvinall

13 December 2014

Since JoeK is really a MSNBC fanatic, perhaps he should go there for outrageous quotes. The DailyKos is not a very trustworthy place to get info either. JoeK, expand your knowledge, try a variety. LOL!

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George Rebane

13 December 2014

JoeK 1027am – thanks for that disclosure of how the same story is presented differently to different audiences (do you have a source for that comparison?).
A closer look at your report reveals no lies told to either audience; the same body of truths was reported from a different perspective designed to conform most closely with their audiences’ worldviews. Although, I admit that the characterization of the reason for the ‘kinder surge’ from Central America does toy with ingenuity bordering on perfidy because there has been no documented surge in the usually high rates of crime, etc as precursors to the sudden influx that now appears to have come and gone. So one is reduced to asking what was the major change in factors affecting illegal border crossings. Interviews with senders, the illegal entrants, and welcoming relatives all pointed at the statements from our administration.
But your point about the presentation of news being tailored to its audience stands. No one wants to lose eyeballs and their attendant advertisers.

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Walt

13 December 2014

And some wonder why the ratings of MSNBC are not just cesspool low, but have made it to the leach field. It’s a race to the bottom between CNN and MSLSD.
FOX got the Conservatives a LONG time ago, and that means (according to ratings) more than a majority of DEMS (those that really care for truth and facts) also have switched to FOX.
Only the needle bending Progressives still watch Communist News Network, and Marxist Socialist National Broadcasting Central.

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George Rebane

13 December 2014

Walt 1244pm – I think you about nailed it with the bottom scraping lamestream outlets. As you point out, Fox cannot get those high marks attracting only the folks on the Right, they have to have a good portion of eyeballs from the Left also. The question that the Left elite don’t dare ask too loudly is ‘how come so many of our people are glued to Fox?’
When I sample leftwing outlets (I do it daily), then it’s easy to see what gets reported/ignored by whom and when. Sadly for our country, so many (most?) on the Left have very little information about what is going on, and often that comes to them very late. The obverse is a rarity for consumers of Fox et al, which, of course, explains the ratings.

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Ben Emery

13 December 2014

Todd,
Dick Cheney Secret Energy Task Force meeting that took place in March of 2001 was dividing up Iraqi Oil Fields and possible companies who would control specific wells. When the meeting information was made public they redacted the time spent on the Iraq Oil Fields. Judicial Watch, a right leaning government watch dog group along with Sierra Club took the US Government to court to have those records released and they won.
US interests are corporate interests. The US didn’t nationalize Iraqi oil they just illegally invaded/ occupied, destroyed the infrastructure, used banned weaponry, tortured people, killed hundreds of thousands and indirectly are responsible for over a million deaths, injured even more, displaced 1/4 of the total population of Iraq, and used US Military to secure and to give Western Oil Companies control of the oil within Iraqi borders.
http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/iraq
Many of the old links that had actual maps and evidence have been scrubbed from the internet. So here is a good article laying it all out.
Iraq Oil Deals Fulfill Cheney’s Goals
https://consortiumnews.com/2008/070208a.html

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Ben Emery

13 December 2014

Oops that last comment was meant for scattershots

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Russ Steele

13 December 2014

Some Fox News numbers to chews on from August 2014.
A busy week in news was a good one for Fox News Channel, which logged its second highest-rated frame of the year, but a weak one for MSNBC, which found itself deep in third place.
FNC, with several shows hitting 2014 highs, won in adults 25-54 and total viewers on both a primetime and total-day basis for Monday through Friday of last week. Tune-in was above average across the news board due to coverage of the protests in Ferguson and the murder of James Foley.
Looking at the Nielsen numbers, Fox News averaged 443,000 adults 25-54 in primetime to finish ahead of CNN (361,000) in the key news demo, with both networks more than doubling the tally of MSNBC (179,000). CNN had narrowly won in the demo on Monday and Tuesday, before Fox News asserted itself Wednesday through Friday.
In total-day numbers, FNC averaged 272,000, to 241,000 for CNN and just 106,000 for MSNBC.
The only week to rate higher for Fox News this year was the State of the Union frame in January.
As usual, it was no contest in total viewers, with Fox News (2.25 million in primetime, 1.26 million total-day) beating the combined tune-in of CNN (901,000 in primetime, 690,000 in total-day) and MSNBC (737,000 in primetime, 402,000 in total-day).
Among the highlights for Fox News was “The Kelly File” drawing its largest weekly demo audience of the calendar year (455,000), while “Hannity” had its most-watched week of the year (1.84 million) and its highest-rated demo performance to date in the 10 o’clock hour (421,000). Daytime shows “Outnumbered” and “Happening Now” also hit some 2014 highs.

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Joe Koyote

13 December 2014

George: “do you have a source for that comparison?” — It really doesn’t matter what the source is as the quotes are from broadcast recordings and a matter of public record. However this information came to me via The Nation which was reporting on a study done by Media Matters. The notion that some people will label these sources as “liberally biased” in an attempt to discredit the information will not change the facts. This kind of research comes from content analysis studies that rely on actual broadcast/cable recordings for their information and as such, the quotes are irrefutable regardless of bias, intended or otherwise. What was said is what was said, no ands, ifs, or buts. It is left up to the reader to decide the significance.
As to the point about the “tailored presentation” of information, I think this opens up a whole other can of worms about the social responsibility of journalism or lack thereof to present unbiased reporting. I think much of the political divide, of which you often speak, is a direct result of networks’ pandering to their audiences for ratings and ad revenues rather than giving people a more neutral version of events and ideas. Most people get their news and information from television and this story about Fox just illustrates how perceptions can be manipulated by what information is included or not and how a story is worded.

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Bill Tozer

13 December 2014

Fox News played it smart. Remember when CNN launched the 24 news broadcast network and a lot of people thought they would never make it? Who wants news 24/7? Same for USA Today launching a national daily paper. But people bought into it and CNN was the one and only King of 24/7 cable news with no competition.
But CNN got too big for their britches. They started charging cable/satellite providers one dollar for every subscriber who viewed their content per month. One buck was a lot back in the day. ESPN was demanding a buck as well.
Then Fox comes along and says they will charge 29-33 cents/per subscriber for their content. Having Rush airing FOX New Channel ads on his talk show commercial breaks was a brilliant move by the start up FOX. “If you don’t have Fox, call your cable provider and ask them why” went the ads. Or demand the get it.
The rest is history. CNN is still around of course, just like AOL. But, they are slashing their budgets and staff to stay afloat. Both FOX and MSPMS have their niche audiences. However, since we live in a right of center country, FOX has the distinct advantage and majority of viewers. Long story short: Fox rules, CNN and MSPMS drools. The customer is always right.

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Walt

13 December 2014

Now Joe.. It’s a matter of record that LIB snewz have had blackouts on reporting anything derogatory to Dear Leader’s administration. Like the attack on the Tea Party by the IRS??
Shilling for Hillary on the second 911 attack? Name the scandal. It was either not reported on at all, or spun to make “O” and Co. look like their were getting picked on.
People at CNN are jumping ship like the rats they are. CNN even hired Mike Rowe to do his “dirty jobs” gig there. I do believe he has the highest ratings now at CNN. Just working for CNN is a dirty job.. As his show is appropriately named. ” Someone’s gotta do it…”
And like a good Capitalist, he is soaking them for all he can get. Even he knows he better get all he can before CNN goes tits up.
The masses are not stupid.( unlike the claims of Gruber) They will go where the news of the day really is.
Remember those on the street yelling ” FOX LIES!! FOX LIES!!” Yet could NEVER give an example of what they were yapping about. ” Uh,,, they just do…”
So that gets blasted on LIB news, so people tune in FOX to see what they are lying about.
Then they figure out just who has been lying to them. Funny how that works.
I have also heard that one of the satellite TV providers has dumped CNN. ( can’t pay the bill?)

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Walt

13 December 2014

One more thing Joe,, How would the LIBS howl if FOX employed a racist race baiter like Sharpton? ( MSNBC) The LIBS were pissed that Sean Hannity supported, and reported on the Tea Party. But it’s OK for Sharpton to pretty much start riots.( It’s good for ratings)

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Bill Tozer

14 December 2014

Walt, Joe K does have a point. The evil New York Times is picking on The Very Reverend Al saying he is a cheat and has visited The White House 61 times. The Grey Lady had it’s agenda. Now, the evil FNN is picking on the Very Reverend Al as well with their biased slant. Shame on them journalists.
http://nation.foxnews.com/2014/12/13/al-sharptons-non-profit-money-woes-revealed
Word is out that the liberals and The Most Esteemed Very Very Reverend Al want to tax aspirin. They hate aspirin and like all things they hate, aspirin must be punished and have taxes levied against it. They hate aspirin primarily because it is white and it works.
Ah, community organizers see the world through a different prism.

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Bill Tozer

14 December 2014

Well, I warned ya’ll. Extra thick socks and hand warmers are now considered medical devices. It’s to help build more Websites and pay for more consultants……er….pay for PO folk without insurance. Gotta think of Ma and Pa Kettle.
https://www.facebook.com/477536770327/photos/pb.477536770327.-2207520000.1418560591./10153039195980328/?type=3&theater

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Bill Tozer

14 December 2014

And now, the real important stuff. More bad news coming out of the WTF summit in Lima. We are doomed. We are all going to die and die broke.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/environment/climatechange/11292872/Lima-climate-change-summit-weak-UN-deal-could-let-countries-dodge-green-pledges.html

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Ben Emery

14 December 2014

George and Crew,
Here is a time lapse video of NYC rally against Police Brutality and Abuse of Power.
The shift is happening because of those who were born and lived as adults in pre civil/ voting rights act are retiring from power or just flat out dying off. The people of all colors and creeds are tired of the tiered justice system and economic inequality. Just know as we all shuffle off this mortal coil what we left will be drastically different within a generation and for that I am very thankful on many fronts. They will have many different obstacles/ problems and many of the same ones but hopefully in a more cooperative world.
http://mashable.com/2014/12/13/time-lapse-new-york-protest-march/

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Todd Juvinall

14 December 2014

Ben Emery, the link you supplied above shows the “Million Man March” od a few years ago, not the one on Saturday. I watched parts of it on CSPAN and it was quite small. There are a few at the one in Berkley but nothing as large as you seem to think. The Tea Party was mush larger and at least they cleaned up after themselves. The people speaking at Al Sharpton’s rally were all part of the grievance industry and like you, dislike America. Facts don’t matter, only hot false rhetoric and no facts. You seem to have become a propagandist of the worst sort.

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Bill Tozer

14 December 2014

Again, Brother Ben, go to the back of the bus. Do you really think for one second we actually read all your bull pucky or give a hoot what makes you proud? Who gives a shit what makes you proud besides yourself. You, my brother, are so full of yourself that it is hard to find someone to compare you with. Good grief. Corporate this, corporate that, 6 billion years of slavery that, etcetera. We know what gibberish you will spout on any and every topic before to put your fingers on the keyboard, so reading your mantra is not necessary. Dust in the wind.
The protesters in Martin Luther King’s time were hosed, had dogs set upon them, spit on, called niggers and yet not one of them broke ranks and reacted with violence.. Be proud of them.
No, you never give me pause to think as you tell yourself you do, speaking only for myself. No, you have not raised any awareness either. And you fight for the downtrodden of by repeating your mantra on Facebook? And who cares what you tell some sandlot baseball team. Go suck eggs and please get over yourself…..someday.

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Ben Emery

14 December 2014

Todd,
No, yesterday was a day of rally’s across the US that was called Millions March. You can find videos of Millions March 2014 in different cities across the US.
Millions March in San Francisco and Oakland
http://abc7news.com/news/thousands-in-sf-oakland-join-millions-march/435176/
Bill T,
Trying to bring a bit more humanity in the world is something worth while. I am sorry that you cannot find a bit more humanity in your own life. Actually Bill, I have been visited by former players and students from other endeavors come up to me years later thanking me for being an influential person in their life. Only bitter old farts who like the world of division and separation feel like those who promote humanity are dust in the wind and need to suck eggs.
Have a good day and an even better Winter Solstice and Christmas.

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Joe Koyote

14 December 2014

Walt said: “It’s a matter of record that LIB snewz have had blackouts on reporting anything derogatory to Dear Leader’s administration.” Do you mean a blackout like how all the so-called lib snewz outlets did not broadcast Obama’s climate speech last week? If the news is so liberal as you say, why didn’t they broadcast that speech?

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Joe Koyote

14 December 2014

How would the LIBS howl if FOX employed a racist race baiter like Sharpton? — They already employ race baiters — O’Reilly, Hannity, Kelly, and all the rest. Their whole content is skewed toward angry old white men who want to blame blacks for all our country’s problems. Much like the Germans blamed the Jews the right has to have a target for their outrage that does not include the real culprits, the corporatists.

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fish

14 December 2014

Posted by: Joe Koyote | 14 December 2014 at 09:04 AM
Good lord but you’re a tiresome old woman JoKe.

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Joe Koyote

14 December 2014

Carp– Why is it that you have nothing of value to ever contribute to the conversation? My guess is that your continuous rant of personal attacks is a cover for the fact that you know nothing, can’t think for yourself, and don’t have the capacity to understand the world around you. You are the old joke Carp, same old same old drivel. You need a new routine, you are getting way to boring.

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Russ Steele

14 December 2014

Here we go again, more bailouts needed for Wall Street?
Could rapidly falling oil prices trigger a nightmare scenario for the commodity derivatives market? The big Wall Street banks did not expect plunging home prices to cause a mortgage-backed securities implosion back in 2008, and their models did not anticipate a decline in the price of oil by more than 40 dollars in less than six months this time either. If the price of oil stays at this level or goes down even more, someone out there is going to have to absorb some absolutely massive losses. In some cases, the losses will be absorbed by oil producers, but many of the big players in the industry have already locked in high prices for their oil next year through derivatives contracts. The companies enter into these derivatives contracts for a couple of reasons. Number one, many lenders do not want to give them any money unless they can show that they have locked in a price for their oil that is higher than the cost of production. Secondly, derivatives contracts protect the profits of oil producers from dramatic swings in the marketplace. These dramatic swings rarely happen, but when they do they can be absolutely crippling. So the oil companies that have locked in high prices for their oil in 2015 and 2016 are feeling pretty good right about now. But who is on the other end of those contracts? In many cases, it is the big Wall Street banks, and if the price of oil does not rebound substantially they could be facing absolutely colossal losses.
http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/plummeting-oil-prices-destroy-banks-holding-trillions-commodity-derivatives

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Walt

14 December 2014

Activists throughout California held demonstrations Saturday in solidarity with Al Sharpton’s “Millions March” protest in Washington, D.C.
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-California/2014/12/14/Flag-Burnt-Stores-Smashed-and-Peaceful-Protest-as-CA-Joins-Millions-March
Ya’ know how to end monetary inequality? Get an “F”‘n job! No one gave me what I have, I worked my ass off. Gone before the Sun can up, and not home till after it went down. I didn’t spend my makings on toys and drugs or booze. If your not well off or rich, it’s your own damned fault. You are owed nothing from society.
The only thing holding you back is yourself.

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Joe Koyote

14 December 2014

Let’s revue the threats to America. Internally, lazy black people who want nothing more out of life than a welfare check are threatening to bankrupt the nation while our borders are being crashed by illegal Latinos trying to take all the jobs away and get a free education for their children.. leeches.. all of them. Externally, our very existence as a nation is being threatened in every corner of the globe by nasty Islamists (except of course our good friends the Saudi royal family). America isn’t racist, it is just that everything that threatens the country seems to be coming from non-whites; what a coincidence.

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Larry Wirth

14 December 2014

Does JoKe ever consider that those tragic, sundered families could best be reunited by having the illegals go home? Nope.

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Walt

14 December 2014

JoKe.. Do tell where anyone at FOX has preached hate. Unlike (ha) “Rev*” Al.
Do tell where the Tea Party has trashed the streets.(let alone leaving a scrap of paper at any event site.) If it wasn’t for you, and a few,, LIB news would have NO viewers at all.
The day is coming LIB news will be seeking a Government bailout. ( good luck to them with the new Congress.)
On the illegal job seekers, may one job they take be yours Joe. Then watch how your tune changes.

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George Rebane

14 December 2014

JoeK 548pm – Would love to hear from you and yours about who should be the arbiter of what news is presented to whom and when.
I’m afraid that things again are a bit more complex – Fox’s ratings reflect that they attract many more than your “angry old white men”.
Your 1000am threat summary is cute. From another perspective, unfortunately a very few of us believe that the real threat to America continuing as a sovereign nation-state based on our historical constitutional democratic republic model is in the advance of technology and how it impacts labor markets and income distribution. Given these, the destruction of America is accelerated by the more broadly held disastrous beliefs that central planning and collectivism has the answers to how society should be organized.

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fish

14 December 2014

Posted by: Joe Koyote | 14 December 2014 at 09:23 AM
Yes, yes….repeating tired old MSNBC and DailyKos talking points is considered significant contributions to the dialogue in JoKes world.
yawn……….

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fish

14 December 2014

…..is considered significant contributions to the dialogue
….are considered significant contributions to the dialogue…
My significant contribution to proper grammar.

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Todd Juvinall

14 December 2014

It is people like JoeK and that attitude that are truly the undermining threats to democracy and the way of life here in America. I could care less where people come from and what color they are as long as they become Americans. If I am not mistaken, “white people” make up a small percentage of the worlds population so I would suggest we are the party injured by racism from others. What do you think JoeK?

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Scott Obermuller

14 December 2014

“Trying to bring a bit more humanity in the world is something worth while.”
And your opinion comes straight from whom? God?
Celebrating thugs, arsonists, thieves, layabouts and the hustlers and ringleaders that organize this nonsense has what do do with humanity?
The left obviously has an incredibly low view of what humans are capable of.
It’s strange that when a white conservative is targeted by the govt thugs and raked over the coals for simply trying to live their lives as the Constitution allows, the left cheers. Then they go all boohoo when the police have to deal with violent lawbreakers who happen to be of African background.
The hard working shop keepers, store owners and honest citizens that are victimized by thugs and hoodlums don’t ever seem to register with the left.
Humanity? Ben – you don’t have a clue what humanity is.

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Walt

14 December 2014

JoeK… As for Obummer’s climate change yap, even LIB news knew he was full of hot air.
Only the control freaks still buy the BS. Even today they use phony statistics.
The chicken little gang is headed to the KFC processing plant. ( Maned by illegal workers)

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Walt

14 December 2014

Still warm off the presses.. Some “LIB” news that’s not really good news for LIBS,, from a LIB.
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-California/2014/12/12/George-Soros-Endorsed-Prison-Reduction-Initiative-Pushes-Crime-Rate-Up
And coming soon to a town near you. (if not already)

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Todd Juvinall

14 December 2014

Here Ben Emery, read this as far as the turnout to Al, the shill, Sharpton’s march in DC.
http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2014/12/13/photos-d-c-march-draws-thousands-to-protest-police-actions/

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Larry Wirth

14 December 2014

Todd, R. A. Coon, a popular anthropologist of a generation ago said humanity is divided into five “races.” Capoids, the original inhabitants of Africa have dwindled to less than a half million. Austroloids number perhaps a couple of million, Congoids (our current “blacks”) number perhaps a billion. The other six billion humans are about equally divided between Mongoloids and Caucasoids. Keep in mind that Asian Indians and Arabs are basically Caucasians. Indo-Europeans. Caucasians aren’t all “white,” most are various shades of brown and even black. Life is funny…

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Todd Juvinall

14 December 2014

That is amazing. The issue is skin color though. For some reason everyone that is not my particular color of skin thinks I oppress them. I guess everyone needs a bogeyman.

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drivebyposter

14 December 2014

” R. A. Coon, a popular anthropologist of a generation ago said humanity is divided into five “races.””
That’s an unfortunate name if you want to google somebody.
It seems perfectly rational to divide humanity by clades, but I expect that the state of the art in human taxonomy will grow by leaps and bounds in the coming years.
The interesting thing won’t be so much the ability to define groups, but to what extent you can drive social policy with cheek swabs. At this point, I’d say that the religion of nurture is overcoming the science of nature.

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Larry Wirth

14 December 2014

Mea Culpa, KO. The man’s name was Carleton S. Coon. Bad idea to trust memory when it’s getting older by the day. His last name alone is a bit problematic given today’s polarization…

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Bill Tozer

15 December 2014

Religion of nurture is overcoming the science of nature. Well put.
http://nypost.com/2014/12/15/corrections-union-to-protest-countys-anti-white-affirmative-action-official/

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Bill Tozer

15 December 2014

There is no off topic in the sandbox, only off thread. Time to get the lead out?
http://news.yahoo.com/u-spending-bill-tall-tale-fishermen-021717957.html

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Ben Emery

15 December 2014

On my walk in the trees yesterday after my participation here I thought about this blog and why I get so much opposition.
I don’t hate America, I hate our federal government and the way it operates for the last 30 plus years. Which is funny since you guys claim I love big government.
I don’t think I am special or great in any way. I try and live in accordance to my beliefs the best I can. My actions and the policies I support are those that want to help the down trodden. Personal responsibility and shepherd of our natural environment. Everyone having access to medical care in times of sickness. An equal and just judicial system. Tolerant of other people. Oppose policies that promote greed and large businesses that soul purpose to make as much profit as possible even if it harms others in the process.
Many hear oppose welfare programs along with entitlement programs such as Social Security, environmental law, Medicare/ ACA and everybody having access to medical care despite their economic situation, and many here believe we are in a holy war and rounding up and torturing people of a different faith of your own is alright.
Here is where those who oppose my actions and public policies will have their heads explode.
I am following the teachings of Jesus and you guys, who are Christians, are opposing the teaching of Christ unless it is done by a Christian Church. Remember Jesus was Jewish and was opposing the establishment both in religion and government. He was wrongfully executed for his teachings by the establishment.
Remember he died for all of us, not just his supporters.
Have a great Christmas y’all. Remember being a good Christian is following the teachings in our lives on a daily basis not just showing up to a building on Sunday and serving the down trodden a couple days a year.
Think about it!

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Walt

15 December 2014

That’s all well and good Ben, BUT… It’s not government’s place to institute all those “feel good” ideals. Greed? Everyone is greedy in one form or another. ” One’s fair share”.. When it comes to pie,, “my” fair share is just a tad bit more than others. I’m helping someone else control their eating habits.
It’s not government’s place to redistribute wealth. No Lefty yet has defined just how much someone should make or be taxed on said income. ( 50%? 80%??)
Before the “G” man stuck his nose into things, private charities did a fine job, and people actually gave more, and cared more for the less fortunate. Today, we have “professional” less fortunate. Gimme,, gimme,, gimme!! Why work when I can find a way to leach off others with the government’s help??

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Bill Tozer

15 December 2014

Nah, won’t think about it for a millisecond. Won’t give ya the pleasure. 🙂
Brother Ben, nobody says you are a bad man. Never heard that uttered. Ever. My criticism of ya is twofold, though I should not cast stones on a rainy day. I do believe deeply that you are a good guy.
First, I believe your solutions are often more problematic than the various and sundry problems addressed. Second, you ain’t saying anything I have not felt or believed once in my lifetime. It’s that darn holier than thou attitude you bring to the table, as if you are the sole self appointed advocate for social justice and fairness and we here just are too callous/jaded to see the light.
An small example is the little hungry boy living in poverty looking at the other side of the Border Wall we harsh ones erected. Sure, we are FEEL for the youngster to a degree, but do not place the same value on his situation as you do. Why? Because we are a nation ruled by laws, not ruled by men or FEELINGS. The USofA has a good orderly direction (GOD) to address the lad’s plight. It is a legal process, albeit it takes years to reach fruition. Labeling those who advocate a good orderly direction and process as heartless unChristian divisive wall builders ain’t going to cut it with my ilk. Like the Beatles song Revolution, “carrying pictures of Chairman Mao ain’t going to cut it with anyone anyhow.”
But, Brother Ben, I have a early Christmas present for you. This is what you struggle to say and encapsulates you arguments. Enjoy. This guy is preaching to his choir.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=njEdopyrKnU

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Bill Tozer

15 December 2014

Good morning Mr. Walt. The mantra “do no harm” is taken to extremes by the do gooders and government has become their sole solution. No laws have ever stopped a rape, but they don’t see that. And no one has ever raped a 38. but they don’t see that either. There is a law of unintended consequences and the law of for every action there is an equal reaction.
Personally, I blame the catalyst of the breakup of the black family and the ensuing problems that are now so apparent in the black community at government’s doorstep. The government solution is now known in the crime infested unsafe housing as “the projects” with few elderly local black men around to guide the youth. In days before the Great Society, if a black kid (or any kid) was out on the street corner swearing at passerbys, the older black men would tell the youth to stop it now (cease and desist) or a threat to tell their fathers. A whipping would be awaiting them when they got home if they did not straighten up. Little to do with overt racism.
So, a fair question is “Is Al Sharpton doing more harm than good?” Why do so many in our community support Utah’s Place? Is it because government can only do so much? Is it because government money doesn’t solve everything? Those that say WE here want to defund/eliminate SS, Medicare, food stamps, low income housing and Obamaphones are talking out their asses. We want an accountable government that spends wisely with accountability and oversight to elimate waste, fraud, and abuse as government takes over the role of Sugar Daddy. And we want the recipients to have earned it (like SS) or indeed qualify for food stamps, etc. No one is advocating the safety nets be eliminated for the mentally ill, the lame and feeble, the unemployable, the aged, the true definition of the word “idiots”, as in not all there, born that way.
As government continues to be an unwelcomed uninvited houseguest at our dinner tables who refuses to leave and moves in, we must all remember the law of unintended consequences. From the WSJ via Newsmax:
http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/obamacare-closing-free-clinics/2014/12/14/id/612953/

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Joe Koyote

15 December 2014

FYI — I don’t watch MSNBC nor do I read the Daily Kos, so you all will have to come up with another excuse. In fact I don’t even get broadcast TV or cable. Unlike most folks here, I come up with these things up on my own, I don’t need Fox news or Rush Limbaugh to tell me what to think.

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Todd Juvinall

15 December 2014

So you just make it up from whole cloth JoeK? We thought so.

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fish

15 December 2014

FYI — I don’t watch MSNBC nor do I read the Daily Kos, so you all will have to come up with another excuse.
So this blanket love of the omnipotent regulatory state and loathing of the productive enterprise springs fully formed from the fertile mind of JoKe?
My suggestion then sir is to have your dosage levels reviewed by a competent physician.

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