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December 2013
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George Rebane

TalkRadioNews Item – Next year commercial talk radio of the liberal bent is slated to completely collapse in the remaining major media markets of New York City, San Francisco, and Los Angeles.  The problem is that the audiences for such content are miniscule and diminishing.  Leftwing talk radio survives on non-profit outlets such as NPR which are funded through government grants and private donations.  (More here, here, and here)

Now anyone who has been a longtime resident of Earth will not be surprised by this news, even though its dissemination has never been a high priority item on the nation’s lamestream outlets.  The question worth considering once more is why such talk radio cannot get purchase in commercial markets, why are so few people listening to the collectivist side of the political spectrum when a large and growing number are listening to conservative and libertarian commentators.

To people like me, the answers are simple and straightforward.  These answers are also totally rejected by progressives who respond to the asymmetry by their continuing attempts to shut down commercial rightwing talk radio on public airwaves (and now also on private channels) based on sinister yet hilarious arguments of ‘fairness’ and ‘balance’ that completely beg the question of why audiences differ in their preferences for such contents.


My longtime views about the causes for the failure of commercial leftwing radio are –
1.    Socialist tenets are prima facie not acceptable to most informed and thinking Americans; they sound silly and contradict common knowledge of human values and behavior.
2.    Extolling the virtues of ever bigger government and more taxes on the rich to pay for less performance from more working age people is not a convincing argument when people look at what Washington has attempted to deliver (see graphic below).
3.    The presentation of collectivism’s synoptic principles is a tedious narrative that motivates no one to strive for success or go the extra mile.  Society advances at its margins, providing new and better products and services at lower costs to greater numbers of people, because that is where the greatest reward for individuals’ performance lies.  But that is also where the greatest risk awaits.  And because collectivists promise to take more and more of the last dollar that is so difficult to earn, everyone immediately understands why they will not make the effort and expose themselves to unrewarded risk.  It’s hard to BS your way through that truth on the radio or anywhere for that matter (even on RR).
4.    To liberal talkers the remaining narrative is the eternal recounting of the anecdotal – examples of the elderly couple in dire need of an unaffordable life prolonging procedure, the poor single mother with six kids who doesn’t have a skill that can support her brood, and is also not bright enough to acquire one were the opportunity provided, and so on.  Liberal talk radio is simply dreary and unconvincing.  Attempting to extol the absent virtues of big government departments like the EPA, Education, Energy, TSA, …, and now HHS is hard to do with a straight face, and even harder to hear.  And wanting to do more of the same with higher taxes (‘next time we’ll do it right’) is a blatant joke.  This approach quickly wears on even the most receptive and simple of ears.
5.    But the most compelling reason for the small audiences is that people, those who succumb to the collectivist siren song but also have the ability and interest to process and communicate information on social issues, make up a very small fraction of our population.  Most supporters of liberal causes give little evidence of such talents and propensities.

Obamacare_WhenPIgsFly

In spite of the above, my druthers about the future of leftwing talk radio are –
1.    It should continue receiving public assistance to keep such programs on the air.  Both independent and conservative voters should have ready access to liberal thought and interpretations of events and history, no matter how silly.
2.    Wherever possible, the programs should be coupled with conservative talk radio in formats that allow listeners to make comparisons and contrasts.  Perhaps such interleavings or pairings will attract sufficient audiences that warrant commercial sponsors.
3.    The media outlets for leftwing content are not in danger of disappearing since most of the mainstream media (aka ‘the lamestream’) on TV and in print publications that disseminate news and entertainment – i.e. thought-optional content – are left-leaning.  However, the Left’s continued forays to limit and/or extinguish conservative channels remains both expected and disquieting.

Posted in , , , ,

140 responses to “Collapse of Commercial Collectivist Talk Radio”

  1. Ryan Mount Avatar

    The airwaves belong to the people of this Republic. We have a right, via slow* mob rule even, to dictate what goes over them.
    If we don’t like it, we can elect members of Congress and the Executive Branch to change that. But I betcha Clear Channel will beat us to the lobbying punch. And some jerkoff President will make the Comcast CEO chairman of the FCC.
    In the past 25 years, we have elected people who want to Liberalize** the airwaves. And we have with predicable and boring results. Oh, the other thing we’re obsessed about is keeping people from uttering Lenny Bruce/George Carlin naughty words. But that’s about it.
    *via elected officials
    **Yesssssss. Liberal-ize.

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  2. George Rebane Avatar

    RyanM 1034am – Spot on Ryan, I grow extremely tired of remaking the same points that have been a matter of record on RR over the last seven years. Some readers (usually of the Left) approach every day in these comment streams as if it were the first for them and everyone else in discussing any issue. One can call this the ‘Hello World!’ syndrome.
    To make progress on any debate, especially on which the indelible record exists, the well documented position of your opponent should be re/searched, a task that is easy to do using this blog’s search function, or to simply google it with ‘George Rebane’ or ‘Rebane’s Ruminations’ added to the keywords. Then that record should be disputed instead of requiring it to be restated ad nauseum.
    (My positions on markets, regulations, govt subsidies, etc are all a matter of record here. And all such questions have been answered numerous times.)

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  3. Walt Avatar

    Just when we thought money couldn’t be spent anymore stupidly,
    look what the taxpayer got screwed for THIS time. ( And no pun intended)
    I’m sure Ben and friends will call it a “wise investment”.
    http://dailycaller.com/2013/12/29/obamas-federal-government-funded-hardcore-porn-project/
    I can see the disclaimer now.
    ” No taxpayer paid for contraceptives were used in the making of this documentary.”

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  4. Paul Emery Avatar

    George
    As to the listener numbers of talk radio it’s pretty simple to understand. Progressives aren’t interested in talk radio probably because they have other interests and ways of entertaining themselves. duh…You are making much more out of this than it deserves. You’re not proposing that talk radio offers an intelligent dialogue on contemporary issues are you?

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  5. Walt Avatar

    Paul,, You a “fairness doctrine” guy? I get that impression when you marginalize
    the death throws of the Lefty propaganda machine. ( missing more gears and cogs by the week) Why put forth effort when one can demand “equal time” on a well listened to
    conservative show. Rush has three hours. Some LIB would LOVE to just walk in the door, and demand 1.5 of those hours. No muss, no fuss, and no capital outlay. Someone else paid for that time, and Rush’s voice gets cut by half.
    Pretty much the definition of “fair” for LIBS. Get someone else to foot the bill
    all in the name of ” equal time”.

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  6. Ryan Mount Avatar

    George-
    Back when I used run a Critical Writing class, I used to have the students pick a topic they were passionate about. Say, Clear Cut forests or pollution or abortion or whatever. I’d get them all riled up and then tell them to write a paper from their opponents perspective. In a nutshell, argue against their position.
    Man, talk about people getting religion.
    Anyhow, the point was not to moderate their positions, but to train them in the art of empathy with the hopes of diffusing misconceptions and assumptions they had about their “opponents.” It also taught them to listen to their adversaries. Note: who do you think fought this activity the least? The few Conservative Students in attendance.
    When we have people in these threads assume/imply that you are in favor of Wall Street bailouts and other forms or cronyism, I often think that I didn’t work hard enough back at the University. Pity.
    Walt-
    Paul is the news director of our esteemed local radio station. I’m not sure where you’re going this fairness doctrine thing, but he’s doing a pretty good job. What he does is the real thing. And besides, the Fairness Doctrine is never coming back. That boat left the harbor a long time ago.
    Rush Limbaugh is not a newscaster or a journalist. It’s a stretch to call him a commentator. What he is, is a talented entertainer. Nothing more than right wing Tom Hanks (my apologies to Tom Hanks). After all, it’s called the “Rush Limbaugh Show,” right? “Show.” He is rather funny at times, but so is a monkey who plays with its poo.
    What’s dumber than Rush Limbaugh? People who get upset over his media-whore controversies; dumb people getting angry over a dumb radio show.

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  7. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 1159am – “intelligent dialogue” or otherwise, I do believe that for millions of Americans talk radio is the prime source for covering a fairly comprehensive inventory of current issues along with details of enough salient factors about each issue to get people thinking.
    I also know that denigrating conservative talk radio listeners is the liberals’ response to the dumbth on display from the popular Left. In any event, exposing obvious falsehoods/lies/ignorance of conservative talk show hosts should be an easy matter that would quickly cut down their audiences. And the opportunities to do that over the abundant left-leaning media are legion. I don’t know why they don’t capitalize on that.

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  8. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    Honestly, I think PaulE throws these bombs out thinking our undies will get in a wad. But, regarding radio. Most of the reason the right succeeds and the left doesn’s is right there in the KVMR room. If they were hot dtuff, say, like Rush, they would be on many stations and more than five hundred listeners. But they don’t. The left is just boring. They whine about everything good and do so in a whiny,screechy voice. People move the dial to the right and are given information and opinions shared by over half the country.
    Sure a little niche station like KVMR is great if you want to listen to jazz on Sunday morning, but their opinion appeal is totally boring and PaulE knows it. But people like PaulE are simply jealous and want to be popular. I had way more listeners when I did Republican Policy Friday on KNCO then a whole week of listeners to KVMR.

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  9. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    One more thing. Rush said the babe, Sandra Fluke, was asking the taxpayers to buy here contraceptives and the libs tried to get him booted. It was relentless but guess what? Rush is still there and his audience is bigger. So, the proof is in the pudding as they say. Conservatives are Up, liberals are down.

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  10. Videodrone Avatar
    Videodrone

    Look, Rush and any other commercially supported program exists primarily to sell advertising period – the fact that he and others are so popular is because consumers support the sponsors.
    when Air America launched they stole funds from the Boy Scouts, some retirement funds and trusts!

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  11. Walt Avatar

    The bottom line is, conservative news and opinion, be it on the boobtube or radio,
    sell advertising spots. Welcome to Capitalism. And LIB news and comment, for the most part has to be subsidized. ( George Soros and friends,, and of course,, taxpayers)
    The “big three” are operating at a loss as far as the news depts. go.
    Anyone who is paying attention watch FOX, and have given up on the Liberal apologist networks. Every so often the ratings are published for all to see. Just guess who has been leading? Nope,,, Not CNN or MSNBC.

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  12. Walt Avatar

    The new battle ground is at Combie Rd.
    That’s were you might find me tomorrow.
    I hope some of the Tea Party members will be there too.
    The demand to remove the “Support our troops” sign will not go unchallenged.

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  13. Paul Emery Avatar

    Gosh Todd, you’re getting sweaty over this. I could care less what your opinion is on anything so don’t expect a response.
    George
    Talk radio is great vehicle for expressing opinions and Conservatives seem to like that venue. I have no problem with that but really, do you consider Rush Limbaugh to be a source of news? That’s kinda strange if you go that direction because of the clear distinction you made to me about the difference between Fox News and Hannity and Company that are political entertainers and make no attempt to approach public affairs with an open mind, I can say the same about the Maddow crew on MSNBC. We’ve talked about this and I thought had some kind of agreement.

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  14. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 652pm – O’Reily, Hannity, etc are Fox commentators as distinguished from their news anchors like Bret Baier and Chris Wallace. However, since the commentators frequently have national public figures as their guests, they do get statements from their guests that break new ground and become news that is picket up by other programs and channels. Do I go to Hannity or O’Reily for news? No, I very seldom even watch them. But that doesn’t detract from the point that they may from time to time have a new perspective or a news item to contribute.
    We commentators with ideological perspectives are held in pretty low esteem by those with other ideologies, and also those who simply cannot understand ours. I am a local poster child for such commentators.

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  15. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    From Ben – “financial regulations are non existent”
    And the sun rises in the west. Is this the best the left can offer? Is there anyone with any intelligence on the left? I’ll give Ben a huge margin here and wait for him to walk that one back with an apology. It’s the holiday season and some folks are pretty deep in their cups. Ben?

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  16. Walt Avatar

    Since Ben has gone on the marginalization tracks of conservative voices,
    he may want to check the sanity of the Progressive talking heads.
    Didn’t one just “resign” because he nutted up and lost it, in vile comments towards Sara Palin? The guy was supposed to be a pillar of the Progressive media establishment.
    I recall a while back a poll was taken of just who gets their news from where. I found it amusing that 20 or so % of Dems got their “news” from the likes of comedy Central, Bill Muar, and the like.

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  17. Paul Emery Avatar

    Okay George I think we are on the same page on this one. Rush, Beck and the rest are commentators not sources of news and shouldn’t be held to that standard. Yes indeed they do have guests from time to time that make news on their programs.
    It’s those who view commentators as a source of news that I have problems with. As previously stated I am in agreement that Conservatives use talk radio as a vehicle for discussion of news events more than liberals. Perhaps they have more free time during the day or have jobs that allow them to leave the radio on. We tried to move Amy Goodman and Democracy Now to a day spot from 7PM but were rocked with displeasure because steady listeners could not hear the show because of their day jobs.

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  18. Russ Steele Avatar

    Nevada County’s effort to take down a Support Our Troops sign made the Drudge Report. Now the whole world knows how our leaders and their staff make bad decisions at the Rood Center. My guess this story has some legs, let the protests begin.

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  19. Paul Emery Avatar

    Pretty stupid call from some clipboard toting code cop. Makes you appreciate what some of our citizens have been going through with enforcers of the Cultivation Ordinance which is enabled by the same code as used by Sign Cops . Apologies will happen by tomorrow.

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  20. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    Paul – I’ve worked 40 hours a week for 36 years. I watched Joe Pine, David Susskind, Bill Buckley Jr, etc – listened to Paul Harvey, Larry King, Ray Taliaferro, Rush Limbaugh, Tom Sullivan, etc, etc – you whiny lefties always have excuses as to why you can’t do anything. Leftie listeners too stupid or just too lazy to time shift Amy Goodman? You let me know, Paul – I’m still waiting for Ben to get back on how there are no financial regulations in the USA.
    I tried listening to Air America. Very little actual info – mostly just Bush lied, blah blah blah….never gave one ounce of proof that Bush lied. We were all just supposed to be true believers and put up with a steady diet of profanity. Currently Tom Sullivan owns the air. Polite, variety of careers and knowledgeable on Wall Street and political issues. Left wing talkers are just BS artists. None of them have ever actually done anything of value.

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  21. Gerry Fedor Avatar
    Gerry Fedor

    I guess you guys are “OK” with people going against building codes as long as they have a cross somewhere on the construction?
    I’ll tell the neighbor down the road who’s putting in a 9 acre pond that it’s all good, and he doesn’t need some stupid engineer to approve of the dam layout, as long as he puts in a cross on it…..
    The people who live below him shouldn’t care either as that cross will save them if it fails right?

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  22. Gerry Fedor Avatar
    Gerry Fedor

    A radio industry insider has confirmed the downward spiral of Rush Limbaugh on talk radio. Speaking on MSNBC’s Ed Show, Holland Cooke said that Limbaugh’s listenership has declined 36%, from a high of 22 million 3 years ago, to a current listening audience of 14 million. Cooke said furthermore that those who are still tuning in on a regular basis are fringe listeners looking for “survivalist” content.
    The Flush Rush Facebook community has helped hasten Limbaugh’s decline, holding a 16 month campaign to convince the controversial talk show host’s advertisers to end their support for his bigoted views.
    Ed: The right-wing echo chamber is in trouble. For the past 30 years, conservative talk radio has dominated the political conversation and guided the thinking of many lawmakers. Rush Limbaugh has been treated like a gift from God.
    The people that listen to 10 hours of talk radio a week or more voted Republican by a 3-1 margin. Those are the people that elected the new congress. That’s why this is the Limbaugh congress.
    All right. Conservative talk is still dominant, but its influence is starting to fade. If you don’t believe me, trust GOP messaging guru Frank Luntz. Luntz was caught on camera speaking to a group of young Republicans at the University of Pennsylvania.
    Listen to this as it’s on youtube: .
    (Frank Luntz on hidden camera)…. they get great ratings, and they drive the message. And it’s really problematic. And this is not on the Democratic side. It’s only on the Republican side. Democrats have got every other source of news on their side. And so that is a lot of what’s driving it. If you take Marco Rubio’s getting his ass kicked. Who’s my Rubio fan here? He is getting destroyed. He is trying to find a solution to immigration that isn’t the traditional Republican approach, and talk radio is killing him. That’s what’s causing this thing underneath and too many politicians in Washington are playing coy.
    Well, apparently, Frank Luntz didn’t learn anything from Mitt Romney in the 47% mistake. He made the naive mistake of telling college kids with IPhones in their hands that the conversation was off the record. Really? Luntz, you need to get updated with how kids use technology. They have no loyalty, but only to the information. This is what they’re saying behind closed doors. It’s a good thing for liberals in America. For more on all of this, let’s bring in talk radio consultant Holland Cooke. Holland, it’s great to have you with us. Holy smokes, they are throwing sand in the sandbox. What’s going on here?
    Of all people, you’d think a media consultant would know that the camera never blinks. And, Ed, you’ve known me long enough to know that I’m not much of a conspiracy theorist. But this is enough to make you wonder. U myself a media consultant with sympathies with Frank Luntz, because there is nothing more frustrating than you do the research, you formulate a plan, you outline it for the client, and then the client doesn’t follow instructions. And the results are bad. So here’s the conspiracy theory. Did Frank talk himself blue in the face trying to get the republicans to do the obvious, and then end run them by pretending that this whole thing leaked? He can’t be so naive as to think that when he tells a roomful of college kids, now, everybody turn off your wireless phone. We don’t want this recorded, that they’ll all do it. His work is garden variety perceptual research. Reince Priebus released the post mortem after the election. Same thing there. This party of nothing is not selling. The negativity has worn thin. They lost the war on women. And they are extremely unfriendly to Hispanics who tipped the election. But talk radio is still the mantra.
    Well, it’s interesting. Is conservative talk radio leading the GOP down a path of destruction? I mean, have they really been — have they been the ones who have forged this big divide?
    The short answer, yes. And you make an important distinction, because radio is fine. AM/FM radio has over 243 million people a week age 12 and above listening in the USA. It’s talk radio that has a problem. Rush Limbaugh has 14 million listeners. Used to have 22 million. These numbers come from Talkers and Scoreboard magazine.
    The most widely quoted source for the big talk radio ratings is scoreboard.
    So let’s do the math. 14 into 243 is about 5%, meaning 95% of people listening to the radio aren’t listening to these truly “inciteful” model citizens. Glenn Beck has 7.5 million listeners, 3% of the radio audience. 97% aren’t listening. Mathematically, this is fringe media. So who do you think they’re talking to? The fringe, the tea party. And it’s all of this survivalist and chicken little stuff that keeps their audience tuning in every day. But they’re not talking to mainstream America. I equate it to talking to people who have used up all of their unemployment checks and are now crying because they don’t like it.
    Percentage-wise ore people tune into watching “Honey Boo-Boo” episodes than listen to all of the conservative talk shows…..
    In fact they are talking to a small group of continual crybabies who want so bad to be right! Maybe they should have asked Santa for this wish to come true as that’s all it is, A WISH!

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  23. Paul Emery Avatar

    Gerry
    This sounds like a heavy handed cone inspector with something to prove. I was Executive Director of the Center for the Arts when we upgraded the building and brought it up to code and the County inspectors were very respectful and understanding of our resources and gave us time to do what was needed. This (the sign issue) is an example of a heavy handed petty bureaucrat who shows no craft in their job and I’m sure will be in for a good yelling from their boss.
    I was a strong advocate for the Miners Foundry when they were harassed by the NC City Council about their “illegal” window that was part of their building upgrade project. They lost that one and it made an impression on me about the prudent limits on building codes. This whole sign thing is really stupid and will quickly run it’s course.

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  24. Paul Emery Avatar

    sp “code inspector”

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  25. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    The Fedor comments on Rush Limbaugh’s imminent demise on radio has been debunked numerous times. He has more sponsors now and more listeners. This demise talk is simply wishful thinking by loser liberals who can put two cans and a string together for talk.
    The Sandra Fluke contrived activity by the liberals could not even boot Limbaugh for what they considered “cause”. He is the top dog, Hannity is second, no libs to be found until you get to the scum at the bottom of the barrel.

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  26. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    For Gerry Fedor – you have the Neilson rating figures to back up your claims?
    I’d be interested to see the numbers for all of the national radio talkers.

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  27. Russ Steele Avatar

    Mr Fedor, here are some additional facts to consider in your conclusion that conservative talk radio
    is in a death spiral:
    Nearly 70 million Americans now listen to Internet radio, and millions more are listening
    around the world. Arbitron recently asked Internet listeners if they were listening more
    or less to Internet radio, and an amazing 76% said they are listening more.

    I am not sure these Internet listeners are included in your over the air audience numbers.
    I use this Conservative Talk Radio App on my iPhone giving me access to 14 conservative
    talkers: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/conservative-talk-radio/id451584035?mt=8
    Once installed there is instant access where ever there is a cellphone signal. We also listen to talk radio on our satellite
    radio in our vehicles and in the house. Again, not sure these listeners are included in the total numbers. If the AM/FM listeners are declining, it is possible they are now on the Internet or on the satellite. Noted that Rush is not yet on Satellite, but is on the Internet.

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  28. Ryan Mount Avatar

    Russ-
    Internet listeners account for less that 10% of listenership. Traditional Radio channels are still rather strong. And as I pointed out above, even Millenials are listening to radio in great numbers, which I found surprising given the number of other media distractions they have at their disposal.
    Regarding Rush Limbaugh and other “commentators” (entertainers)…
    Rush Limbaugh is the Energizer Bunny of Right Wing Radio: he’s never going away except on his own terms. He’s survived numerous coordinated attempts to not only damage his brand, but also to get him off the air. And he has not only survived, he has thrived even after his self-inflicted wounds (illegal prescription drug activity, to name one).

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  29. George Rebane Avatar

    re RyanM’s 942am – There’s more to be said about ongoing efforts to shut off certain rightwing commentators; and it continues to be a one-sided affair – the Left trying to quiet the Right because among the informed its ideas cannot compete. A nearby example is the gleeful 1118pm comment from Gerry Fedor that joins the hundreds of other such celebrations and exhortations in the RR comment log which now numbers well over 40,000.

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  30. Ryan Mount Avatar

    They’re not going to succeed George. I think that news [pun intended] will be a great disappointment to Limbaugh’s foes, and more interestingly, to those Rush supporters who enjoy a good fight.

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  31. Paul Emery Avatar

    Talk radio ratings are something the shrill right can certainly thump their chests about but that’s nothing new. Apparently those listeners have time on their hands to turn the radio on and cheer with the blabsters. Others have to work for a living and or just don’t care.

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  32. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 1202pm – Paul, your strong and repeated implication, that liberals are too busy creating wealth while conservatives just lollygag around with nothing to do but listen to talk radio, just won’t wash by any statistic you care to dredge up. Government offices are filled with wealth consuming legions of union liberals, and you can only guess what political coloration are all the folks who have for years depended on various transfer payments (now called ‘Obama’s stash’) for their livelihood. Nice try.
    BTW, these millions of liberals far outnumber the corporate welfare types when it comes to supporting entitlement programs. And we don’t have to circle the barn again, my position on transfer payments is a matter of record.

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  33. Walt Avatar

    Those of you falling back on ” the permit” ,, well I happen to have some
    knowledge and dealings with those damned things.
    Where is the “safety” issue for “signage”? ( It right up there with needing a permit for little Suzy and her lemonade stand)
    As far as the county is concerned, you need a permit to replace ONE board
    on your “structure”. They were quite proud to tell me that. Replacing a few dry rotted deck boards turned into a full blown reconstruction. Right down to raising the railing 1/4 of an inch. Think that was cheap?
    I needed to replace about ten bad pieces of lumber. I took one out, and put a new one in it’s place. Then my busybody county employed neighbor dropped a dime on me to his boss, and I got red tagged. Then the fun began. engineered plans,, the stamp that goes with it, county approval of those plans, etc.
    So do tell.. How many permit buying Leftys are there? They are the ones that wanted ” the man” off their back,, and yelled ” Down with the establishment, and let me be!” Yup,, right here in ” Old Hippyville” I don’t recall the Berkeley transplants being big on getting “permits” when they took over the Ridge. Those are for the “other people”.
    I’m surprised the county hasn’t installed ” inspectors” at every local lumber yard demanding to see the building permits for the lumber that’s being purchased.
    Think the rental yards are asking to see grading permits before a tractor is rented out?
    But all HELL breaks loose when a simple sign goes up in support of our troops.
    GOD forbid a Christian CROSS is on said sign. That must be what drove the ” good Samaritan” to gripe. And LIBS claim there is no war on Christianity. ( any little dig they can get in)
    From The Union,, to CBS SAC.,,, to The Blaze,,, to Drudge, and now waiting for FOX to chime in.( FOX takes a few days)
    So “permits” are needed to put up something that makes a statement? or conveys
    a “message”?
    If that is what “some” are saying,, then there are more than a few rainbow flags and banners that need to be “permitted” or removed, because they are “vary” close to roads. They are not there for looks. Those ” flags and banners”,,, “send a message”. If a ” Support our troops” message needs a permit
    so do “rainbow” flags and banners”.
    Ya’ know what they say,,, ” What’s good for one,,,,,”

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  34. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Russ Limbaugh has basically saved talk radio. His program has reinvigorated talk radio and brought it to new heights in our current era. Many many others have ridden this wave of popularity up the ratings game. You might say Russ has taken boring mundane talk radio and lite a fuse under its feet.
    I agree with Ryan that Russ will leave under his own terms when he is good and ready. Nobody rules the airwaves or is King of the Hill forever, but in this brief moment of time, Russ is like cash and cash is king.
    The Russ Limbaugh Show is 100% Russ, something that is hard to duplicate. No Russ the individual, no success. He is the master of the Golden Excellence in Broadcasting Microphone. In an era following Phil Donahue’s kinder gentler softer mangina mantra, Russ hit the deck running proclaiming his “talent on loan from God” and “half his brain tied behind his back just to make it fair.” Fair to liberals.
    Although I have not listened to Russ for a few years now, I know what he would say about the Collapse of Commercial Collectivist Talk Radio,
    He would say something like this: “Plenty of room for you to join us. Come on in. The water is warm.”
    Yes. liberal talk radio: Come on in, the water is warm. Thousands of careers are being made right this minute. There never has been a better time to join the talk radio party. Come on in liberals, the water is indeed warm.

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  35. George Rebane Avatar

    re BillT’s 325pm – In his rush to rush out his comment, Mr Tozer really meant to type Rush 😉

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  36. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Yeah, I made a boo-boo. Its Rush, not Russ. I got that darn Swine Flu crappola. No fun. Blew right through my flu shot last month. Hope you don’t get it….I would not even wish this on my dear sweet friend Gerry.
    As far as Mr. Paul’s last comment, that is exactly the attitude that strikes a cord with Rush’s listeners. If one likes Rush, they are mind numbed robots who let Rush do their thinking for them. Those who swing to the left side of the street are puzzled that anyone would take Rush seriously. Their only explanation is that Rush listeners are ignorant redneck inbreeds, thus Rush’s popularity does not matter.
    Rush would lick his lips over Mr. Paul’s explanation. He has made a living touching a cord with people who are tired of being told what to think or what they think and feel is not correct. Thus the backlash against the “elites”, whether they be found in academia, media, leftie think tanks, or government, aka, the Left’s Gods.
    We commoners are just too dense and unbook learned to know what is best for us and we need you Elitists to tell us what to think and run our pitiful lives. “Yes, masta, we be good and submit to your Superior intelligence. I is sorry boss, I did not see the errors of my ways. I am an ungrateful ingrate. Forgive me.”
    Then life would be grand once again for the liberals.

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  37. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    BillT is on the madk again and with humor! You would not find a similar post by a PaulE or a BenE. They are just plain old sourpusses.
    Regarding libs elites and their magnificent use of the language to show us all how wonderful they are. Who was that guy, Martin Bashir,on MSNBC, the misogynist guy who said this on his show about Sarah Palin? Check the link to see how smart a talker from the left really is.
    http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2013/11/15/despicable-msnbcs-bashir-wishes-sarah-palin-would-be-defecated-urinat
    It took two weeks of outrage for the schmucks at MSNBC to fire the fool Bashir. But it looks like Sarah is moving on while Bashir is getting a dose of wehat he spoke about. Ah, I just love it when a liberal fool is exposed by his own words.
    Now juxtapose Rush and the “wh” Sandra Fluke. Oops, well, she denies it but she did want us to pay her $3,000 a year contraceptive bill didn’t she? Anyway, forgive me, she is not a wh but just a plain old frisky little tart. You know, girls just wanna have fun”. So the libs did their darnedest to get Rush booted but it did not work. Why? Because he told the truth and the word wh*** is just a common one on all the TV stations, so no big deal. Oh, and I have nothing against wh***’s, I just don’t want to pay for their condoms.
    Bashir made the mistake of allowing us all to see how truly crude and disgusting a liberal and his mouth really are. Adios Martin Bashir, hello Rush!

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  38. Walt Avatar

    Does this mean LIB radio personalities will be added to the endangered species
    list? Will a special box be added to the unemployment forms specific to LIB radio? ” If no one listened to your program, check here”
    Seems Paul may be on the endangered species list of LIB radio.

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  39. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    Walt, I think you are correct. PaulE is too boring to succeed as Rush has. Hell, I was way more popular on KNCO back in the 90’s than he could ever achieve. Too funny.

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  40. Walt Avatar

    One more thing regarding the ” Support our troops” dispute.
    When actions like this take place and make national interest,
    Holy Hell descends upon the public officials, from all corners of the nation, who may be responsible for the insult. And has yet to end well in their favor.
    Now that Glenn Beck has got wind of this, Things have the possibility of getting interesting. It’s things just like this, he takes personally.
    God help the County if Beck rally’s the “troops”.

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  41. Gerry Fedor Avatar
    Gerry Fedor

    This makes us all laugh as Todd wants to tell us about how this is an issue against a church sign, when it’s actually a code issue.
    You remember code issues don’t you as I bet you ran around like a squirrel on meth trying to bring your projects into compliance every time a Code Enforcement inspector came around….
    Fix it, or remove it!
    It’s pretty simple, and I’m sure you Einstein’s can figure this out!

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  42. Walt Avatar

    Gerry and friends sure would go insane if the signage was ” gay pride ”
    and the same “permit” issue arose. Now that would be considered “insensitive”,
    and intolerant. ” How dare the Co. demand a permit.
    But once again we have the anti Christian force, out in force.
    How dare them use a cross where it can be seen by the public….. Right??
    Now I read the “county refuses to back down”. I don’t believe the County has ANY idea of what may be in store for their actions.
    Ed Scofield may be leading his version of the 7TH Calvary. Custer stood his ground too, and underestimated the opposition. How did that work out?

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  43. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    Sorry sock puppet Gerry Fedor, I have not entered into this discussion so I assume your reading skills are lacking here.
    I could care less if a church has the sign. Just like I don’t get upset when your pals of OWS hung them on my overpass here in the basin. I would expect you would be upset if a sign that said what Walt posted above.
    So, more speech, more nativity scenes at schools and the County and City Halls and parks. More more more.
    I see theFrsich is speaking on this on Russ’s blog. I actually agree that the person turning in the complaint should be anonymous. But I view this as free speech and not a code complaint issue.

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  44. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    Posted by: Todd Juvinall | 01 January 2014 at 11:04 AM
    I think it is pretty clear, from both the statements made by county officials and by the Pastor of the church himself, that this is a code compliance issue and not a religious liberty or free speech issue. Even those Todd might think of as opponents here would not condone the ‘state’ (in this case as embodied by the county) imposing a speech ban of any kind.

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  45. Gerry Fedor Avatar
    Gerry Fedor

    You wonder why Todd’s career as a contractor came to an abrupt halt?
    If someone cannot understand something as simple as a code compliance issue, then it’s no wonder why they couldn’t keep themselves out of having the be “rescued” by the Obama’s TARP program when their construction business projects floundered.
    I guess this is another bit of “well thought out advice” from our Wise and Just “conservative friend”…..
    Maybe you should write out a check for what you cost the American Tax Payer my “conservative” friend? Until that happens you’re nothing but one of those little flies that keep landing on the rear half of my cattle in the pasture!
    LOL!!!!

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  46. Walt Avatar

    Compliance? Really Steve?? The structure has been there for a VARY long time.
    All the church did was hang something positive on the existing sun bleached plywood.
    And not trying to sell a damned thing or make a buck.
    But if making one’s “feelings” known somehow now requires a “permit”,,
    Then those with ” rainbow” banners and flags who put them out for the world
    to “get the message”,, need permits also. I’m sure we can find plenty of unpermitted
    ” message ” banners within this county.
    ” What’s good for one,,,”

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  47. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    It is a very simple issue Walt: a structure that is out of compliance needs to be brought into compliance if it is altered. Touching it triggered the requirement.
    There are sign ordinances and zoning codes for a reason, and everyone has to comply with them–whether they are a church and the message is positive as you say, or they are a realtor, or a restaurant, or an individual wishing to express their opinion–that is the way it works.
    Making this anything other than what it is is nonsense,

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  48. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Well, at least we all agree here (thru admission or omission)that Commercial Collectivist Talk Radio roll out has gone over like the New Coke Classic. In fact, its start was the highlight of its death spiral.

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  49. Walt Avatar

    Steve. You may want to “enlighten” the ” I don’t need any stink’n permit” dope
    growers. Maybe pharmaceutical manufacturing licenses need to be called for, and all the testing, paperwork, and costs that go with it. They do claim to be growing “medication”.

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  50. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Mr. Walt, I gotta agree with Stevenfrisch on this one. It is strictly a code compliance issue, not a free speech issue. Sure, that billboard sat there for 20 years until someone painted over it. That changed everything. Then there was a complaint. That brings it to the County’s attention.
    How people out there are living in old school buses year after year pooping in a hole in the ground until somebody complains? Then, it becomes a health issue or code issue or whatever.
    Don’t think the church even owns the property. All the county wants is money….er….compliance=money. Give ’em money through their redundant permit and inspection process and pay them twice and the problem may go away. If it don’t, grease their palms more and more. I hate to see a church taking to the routine practices of our local businesses trying to stay afloat in our over regulated business “friendly” environment, but so be it.
    Mr. Walt, I do sympathize with your observation that IF the sign said GAY PRIDE or something along those lines, the group that painted over the sign would cry they are being singled out and targeted! Be that as it may, compliance should be uniform. Until then, just keep greasing the County’s palms, or buy a new pair of knee pads or perhaps, just perhaps, that old deteriorating billboard may just mysteriously fall over one of these stormy wintery nights.

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