Rebane's Ruminations
September 2017
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[In his 22sep17 letter to The Union’s editor, my friend Norm Sauer shares the Left’s conundrum in a clear, concise, and complete format originally summarized by L. Poplack of Olympia (where they used to brew my favorite beer).  The only problem remaining – is the Left sharp enough to understand the situation?  From the local leftists the answer is an unambiguous NO.  gjr]

Norm Sauer

A "conundrum" is that which is puzzling or confusing. Consider the following, from Larry Poplack of Olympia, Washington:

  1. America is capitalist and greedy — yet half of the population is subsidized.
  2. Half of the population is subsidized — yet they think they are victims.
  3. They think they are victims — yet their representatives run the government.
  4. Their representatives run the government — yet the poor keep getting poorer.
  5. The poor keep getting poorer — yet they have things that people in other countries only dream about.
  6. They have things that people in other countries only dream about — yet they want America to be more like those other countries.

The sad reality is the Democrat Progressive Socialist Party needs people to fail, be without jobs, without health care, without insurance, and in economic pain for the party to succeed. With such misery, more people will be incapable of helping themselves and big government will (help them) at the immoral expense of taking from the producers.

The Progressive Socialists run from the Trump Administration's demonstrated job growth, reduced unemployment, surge in housing starts, the Dow's record highs, and decreased illegal border crossings.

The conundrum: they say Trump and Republicans are crazy!

Posted in , , ,

179 responses to “The Socialists’ Conundrum”

  1. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    George
    By what conceivable justification do you support government subsidies to a company whose CEO makes 24 million a year and oppose subsidies to a tiny volunteer driven community radio station with a tiny very meagerly paid staff? I don’t have a problem with Exxon being a successful company but why do I need to contribute from my small income to their profits? Why can’t they succeed without taxpayer subsidy? You are asking us taxpayers to pay for their private “collective” that has all the money it needs to influence legislation to their favor. A Corporcracy is what it is referred to as. If there is a step towards your dreaded Collective State it is from forcing citizens to contribute to already profitable corporations with CEO’s that have bloated salaries and huge political influence.
    Corpocracy is a term used as an economic and political form of Oligarchy that is controlled by corporations, corporate interests, or the wealthy owners of corporations.

    Like

  2. Walt Avatar

    Nope,, don’t agree Paul. Don’t try putting words in my mouth. Your the one who won’t put forth anything. This must be one of your “woke” moments. (Coined by your Aunty “mad” Maxine)
    You have no defense. You can’t bitch about someone else getting a subsidy when your own butt is tied to one. “Pot me kettle”,,, dude.

    Like

  3. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Paul Emery are you saying that you think the taxpayers are subsidizing Exxon? My goodness, they paid what, 100 billion in taxes themselves. And they employ hundreds of thousands of people who also pay taxes. And they create wealth through mining something of value the people want ad need. Tell us how much their NET subsidy you claim they get is located so we can all go see it.
    Reading food and farmer subsidies. This wrongly or rightly was implemented by your party many years ago to syop the volitile ups and downs of farming an costs to the farmers. You can bitch about it all you want but it exists and it matters not if I or anyone on this thread likes it or not. I do however think you are a total hypocrite even for asking anyone to denounce LaMalfa for what appears to be the same thing you do.
    As Gregory said, you cannot win this point.

    Like

  4. Walt Avatar

    One thing is for sure, Paul hates the fact that the Trump plan is working. More people are working, jobs are coming home, those that have no business being here are going back to where they came from. Freedoms are being restored, reduction in government, more accesses to public lands, and laws are getting repealed. Not quite the “Hitler” Progressives and Paul try to make Trump out to be.
    All this good news is bad news for the Left. Just what are they going to promise to buy votes? Some “new” raw deal? What double the welfare payouts?

    Like

  5. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Paul Emery has turned into a cartoon. RL draw hin!

    Like

  6. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 640pm – Where do you get my opposing subsidies for KVMR? And the only subsidies per se that I support for XOM are those that are legal and return to the country more than they cost. Is your point that whatever such legal benefits XOM and other businesses get, that they are a net loss to the country?
    I’m on record here being against corporate welfare. But if as a result of the recent catastrophe the country can get more back quicker by supporting businesses to get back on line providing employment, providing product, and paying taxes, then I would not automatically rule it out because I’m envious of the salaries executives of private companies earn.
    Let’s see how many of my questions you answer.

    Like

  7. Bun Bun Avatar
    Bun Bun

    America is capitalist and greedy — yet half of the population is subsidized —- because greedy capitalists don’t pay living wages — idiot
    Half of the population is subsidized — yet they think they are victims—see above idiot
    They think they are victims — yet their representatives run the government—-because representatives running the government are working for the greedy capitalists —- idiot
    Their representatives run the government — yet the poor keep getting poorer —-see above — idiot
    The poor keep getting poorer — yet they have things that people in other countries only dream about —see No. 1 — idiot
    They have things that people in other countries only dream about — yet they want America to be more like those other countries — just very vague —idiot

    Like

  8. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: Bun Bun | 02 September 2017 at 09:12 PM
    Wow…..Keachies testicles just dropped! And just a few months short of his seventy fifth birthday!

    Like

  9. Walt Avatar

    Good ol’ Keaster. the guy who feels laws don’t apply to him. Too oppressive? They didn’t mention your name specifically on the sign? His tractor was exempt from CARB.(that was a good one) And can’t comprehend the Contractor’s licence laws.
    Other than that, I hear he might be a stand up guy. (heard 4th hand )

    Like

  10. George Rebane Avatar

    And then there are the millions of idiots who are prepared to risk life and limb to get here for some inexplicable reason.

    Like

  11. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    George
    You fail to answer why Exxon needs subsidies at all. When you’re paying your Chief 24 million a year you must have enough cash around so you shouldn’t have to ask the American Taxpayers for a loan.
    The Exxon subsidies have nothing to do with “the recent catastrophe” George. Not sure why you went there.
    Bun Bun
    Remember the 50% subsidized include those on Social Security, military retirees, Government, School and Law enforcement retirees also those on Medicare and Disability
    Todd
    Exxon 100 Billion in Taxes? Where did you get that number? Forbes says they pay 27.3 Billion. Quite a difference.

    Like

  12. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Exxon does not get a subsidy. They get tax credits and exploration credits. Maybe a oil depletion allowances. Show me the links for their subsidy you say they get. Also, the link to the amount of taxes they pay and their employees pay. My guess is they are subsidizing KVMR!
    Otherwise you are peddling fake news as usual.

    Like

  13. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    FFor fun I googled and came up with this from a publication that apparently hates oil and gas. Now if they are correct and Rex Tillerson is not, the net gain to the treasury paid in taxes by Exxon is 26 billion a year. And they supply a commodity all people use. So it appears to me they are a huge giver and KVMR is a huge taker of taxes.
    “Today Rex Tillerson, under oath, denied the existence of fossil fuel subsidies. This is dangerously incorrect. In fact, the Oil & Gas Industry receives more than $17 Billion in Subsidies per year, and according to our new analysis ExxonMobil likely gets as much as $1 billion of that.”
    http://priceofoil.org/2017/01/11/rex-tillerson-denies-oil-gas-subsidies-exist-while-company-profits-from-them/

    Like

  14. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Sorry Todd meant to include the link from Forbes. Where did you get your number from (100 billion) ?
    https://www.forbes.com/pictures/mef45fkfh/1-exxonmobil/#14175aa92b51

    Like

  15. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    Perhaps Antifa, BLM and Black Bloc should also be subsidized?
    George, I understand you’re a KVMR contributor… would you ramp that up were the Feds to stop writing checks that found their way to that station? I don’t… not a regular listener. Not interested in “Democracy Now! with Amy Goodman” for five hours a week, either. How much does that cost the station, Paul?
    So Paul, let me repeat the question from up top that you kept ignoring… “so why should ExxonM not get the same sorts of write-off’s that are common to other businesses? Because they caused the flooding?”… what of normal tax laws on deductions, investment tax credits, depreciation etc should be forbidden to successful companies that make a few cents on every dollar of sales, like Exxon.
    Or maybe they need someone like Paul Emery to look at each company individually and decide which is worthy and which isn’t? From each according to ability, to each according to need has already been tried elsewhere and failed.

    Like

  16. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    Maybe Antifa already get government support?

    Public school teachers are behind a leading far-left militant group that is part of the Antifa network that federal officials say is committing “domestic terrorist violence.”
    By Any Means Necessary, which has played a key role in riots in Berkeley, Sacramento and elsewhere, has dozens of public school teachers among its members, including among its most prominent leaders.
    http://dailycaller.com/2017/09/01/public-school-teachers-behind-violent-antifa-group/

    Like

  17. Barry Pruett Avatar
    Barry Pruett

    Paul. Someone asked a question earlier to which an answer would greatly advance this conversation. Can you please provide the definition that you are using for “subsidy?” What does a subsidy include? Thanks.

    Like

  18. Norm Sauer Avatar
    Norm Sauer

    SOCIALISM IS THE OPIATE OF THE MASSES.
    A GOOD READ FOR ALL AND ESPECIALLY DOUBTERS: https://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/2017/09/01/socialism-opiate-of-the-masses/

    Like

  19. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    (typing like Ben Stein…)
    Emery?
    Emery?
    Emery?
    Emery?

    I know you read the questions you’ve been asked, Paul. Why ignore them… unless you don’t see a way to punch your way out?

    Like

  20. Walt Avatar

    Paul? Answer questions????? LOL!! HA HA!! NO WAY IN HELL!!
    Just TROLLs with question marks… When the heat gets to high,, skips off to some other thread, and starts a’new.

    Like

  21. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    Barry, from the link Paul cited, there is this explanation:

    The industry’s long-time argument is that liability loopholes and sweetheart tax breaks like the Intangible Drilling Costs are not a form of special treatment for the oil and gas industry. In reality, the IDC is specifically designed to make drilling, survey work, clearing ground, workers’ wages, drilling supplies — basically anything you need to produce oil and gas (aka ExxonMobil’s products) — less expensive for oil and gas companies.

    In other words, in the parlance of the left, oil company subsidies include the deducting the cost of producing the oil for sale in the first place. Imagine if that was extended to music impresarios… they’d be allowed to deduct the cost of renting the venue and the money they pay out to performers from the pure profit of ticket sales.

    Like

  22. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Big question Barry. Subsidies for companies that have all the money they need for expansion should be eliminated. Subsidies to rich farmers who use the profits to buy out small family farms should be eliminated. That’s a start. Subsidies such as the Exxon one I cited as an anecdotal example are the work product of our pay to play two party corrupt system of purchasing favors from our elected officials by making timely contributions to election campaigns. Now Trump wants to further lower income taxes for corporations at the expense of essential services such as universal health care so that the Tillerson’s who make millions in salary can even receive more money. Here’s details of the reimbursements by Exxon to Gov Jindal and others,
    “ExxonMobil’s Baton Rouge refinery is the second-largest in the US. Since 2011, it has been benefitting from exemptions from industrial taxes, worth $118.9m over 10 years, according to the Good Jobs First database. The Republican governor of Louisiana, Bobby Jindal has expressed his pride in attracting investment from ExxonMobil. In state election campaigns between 2003 and 2013, he received 231 contributions from oil and gas companies and executives totalling $1,019,777, according to a list compiled by environmental groups.”
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/may/12/us-taxpayers-subsidising-worlds-biggest-fossil-fuel-companies

    Like

  23. George Rebane Avatar

    When I deleted Gregory’s doubly entered 1042am, both comments disappeared. Fortunately, I was able get a copy first. Here is Gregory’s 1042am –
    Barry, from the link Paul cited, there is this explanation:
    The industry’s long-time argument is that liability loopholes and sweetheart tax breaks like the Intangible Drilling Costs are not a form of special treatment for the oil and gas industry. In reality, the IDC is specifically designed to make drilling, survey work, clearing ground, workers’ wages, drilling supplies — basically anything you need to produce oil and gas (aka ExxonMobil’s products) — less expensive for oil and gas companies.
    In other words, in the parlance of the left, oil company subsidies include the deducting the cost of producing the oil for sale in the first place. Imagine if that was extended to music impresarios… they’d be allowed to deduct the cost of renting the venue and the money they pay out to performers from the pure profit of ticket sales.

    Like

  24. George Rebane Avatar

    re PaulE’s 1114am – It appears that BarryP’s (648am) ‘big question’ of what is a subsidy has been successfully side-stepped. Apparently a ‘subsidy’ is like ‘pornography’, it cannot be defined, only recognized.

    Like

  25. Walt Avatar

    Funny,, Paul hasn’t griped about the “subsidy” that SBC gets. I wonder why?
    Paul just complains about a Repub rice farmer and oil.(those that actually produce things)
    How Paul would bitch about the HIGH cost if those monies were gone.
    Paul has no clue about the cost of doing business.

    Like

  26. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Well, the difference between Porn and Art is lighting so it’s how you see things. Until we remove the influence of special interests on the judgements of our elected officials nothing will make a difference. The “jindal effect” (see 11:14} will be repeated over and over. Not side stepping Barry but first things first or it won’t make any difference. Now Trumps wants to further extend the favors by giving tax cuts to the Corps so they can increase bloated salaries and profits to the 1% at the expense of working class Americans and those who need essential services such as health care.

    Like

  27. fish Avatar
    fish

    Until we remove the influence of special interests on the judgements of our elected officials nothing will make a difference.
    Why is there a need for politics if there are no “special interests”?

    Like

  28. Walt Avatar

    Paul. Start living the way you preach. (your tune would change in a hurry)
    Bitch about what others get, yet make excuses for what directly affects you.

    Like

  29. Walt Avatar

    Good job Paul,, you just gave yourself enough rope to hang yourself.
    “Until we remove the influence of special interests on the judgements of our elected officials”
    You mean like the AGW horse crap?, Wind and solar scam job?,
    Then of course the race baiters and poverty pimps. OH how that list could go on.
    Now don’t forget the likes of Berkeley and all the money they get to screw up the minds of the next world leaders.(GOD help us all)

    Like

  30. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Those special interests of FM stations and their welfare from us must end. I am tired of subsidizing left-wingers and bad jazz. Spo Paul Emery, write a letter to your BOD and ask them to stop their “non-profit” status and their membership in the conglomerate organization of FM grants funded radio. Thanks, I’ll give you a brownie point.
    EXXON donates billions to the charities of its choice so maybe you may be wishing against your own self i interest.

    Like

  31. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    KVMR is listener supported Radio and 90% of our income is from memberships and fund raising 10$ is from a combination of grants from private and government sources. If you’d like to have more information contact station management. This is all I will have to say on the topic of KVMR.

    Like

  32. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Typo-
    10% from….

    Like

  33. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Todd
    Link to your reference on that EXXON pays 100 Million in taxes. I provided mine. Did you make that number up?

    Like

  34. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Give up your subsidies Paul Emery!

    Like

  35. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    KVMR Financials Income 2016
    link, http://www.kvmr.org/sites/default/files/2016%20KVMR%20FS.pdf
    About 175,000 in tax money
    Page 5 as follows,
    ue and support:

    Contributions

    $
    378,117
    $
    378,117
    $
    In-kind support

    237,444

    237,444
    Government grants
    135,524
    38,908
    174,432
    Underwriting

    335,427

    335,427
    Rent

    6,306

    6,306
    Membership

    335,623

    335,623
    Interest income

    2,065

    2,065
    Other revenue

    32,142

    32,142
    Net assets released from restriction
    674,729

    (674,729)

    Revenue and support
    1,759,260
    (257,704)
    1,5

    Like

  36. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 1150am – “Until we remove special interests …” What you and yours always fail note in such criticisms is that the ONLY thing that gives rise to the influence of ‘special interests’ is the expanse of government in its ability to bestow monies and the power of the gun to aid those interests its politicians-in-residence favor. Special interests pay off politicians who then leverage those payments into substantial subsidies(q.v.) and regulatory benefits that directly translate into dollars.
    If we limit the power of government (to, say, its constitutional bounds), then we automatically limit the influence of special interests. Both bees and bears are drawn to honey – a concept totally inaccessible to progressive brains.

    Like

  37. Walt Avatar

    Since Paul dodged it the first time,, you told me before Paul that KVMR would do fine if gov. money dried up. That’s not what is said here.
    http://www.theunion.com/news/business/trumps-budget-proposal-would-cut-18-percent-of-kvmrs-annual-budget/
    In simple terms,,, “OUCH”!

    Like

  38. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    Members paying 90% of KVMR’s expenses has a nice ring to it, Paul, but it is closer to 82%, isn’t it?
    You can make it up. Give back the subsidy, even if it means “Democracy Now!” fans will turn to listening to it online. Maybe have staff take a pay cut, or charge your hobbyist program hosts for the privilege of airtime.

    Like

  39. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    Emery?
    Emery?
    Emery?
    Emery?
    Emery?
    Emery?
    Emery?

    Like

  40. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    So George we are in agreement that farm subsidies such as the one tyat currently graces the La Malfa family should end.
    Gregory, perhaps you didn’t know that KVMR is the EAS radio station for our region. That is because we have broadcasters live 24-7 Much of what we do is public service such as our excellent coverage of the Pleasant Fire this week. We took dozens of phone calls from evacuated residents to the Sheriff and provided up to the minute coverage when things were tense working in co-ordination with Yuba Net. We are a non profit public resource. Every town should have one. Nevada County is very fortunate to have a daily newspaper, commercial AM and FM radio station, KVMR Community Radio and Yubanet keeping us informed as to the news in our region.

    Like

  41. Walt Avatar

    Sorry Paul KVMR isn’t the only game in town(s). KNCO has always done a fine job getting emergency info out. I tune in KNCO over KVMR any day of the week. I can’t seem to find where KNCO gets grant money, yet they seem to do just fine.

    Like

  42. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    Paul, perhaps you didn’t know you had completely ignored my main question, so I’ll repeat it… how much does KVMR pay to carry Democracy Now! live, five prime time hours a week.
    ???

    Like

  43. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    Emery?
    Emery?
    Emery?
    Emery?
    Emery?
    C’mon, Paul, how much does KVMR shovel to Amy Goodman for Democracy Now! ?

    Like

  44. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Gregory
    Democracy is one of many programming options we have as an independent community radio station. They are mostly self funded and do their own fundraising. Popular with our listeners and that is reflected in or membership drives.

    Like

  45. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    That dodges the question, doesn’t it? “Mostly self funded”?
    Is the information proprietary to the station or do you just not want to spill those beans?

    Like

  46. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Actually don’t have those numbers If you’re really curious you can contact the station manager Why is it so important to you ? It’s a piddly amount whatever it is Nothing like a subsidized $24 million salary

    Like

  47. Barry Pruett Avatar
    Barry Pruett

    Ok. Correct me if I am wrong Paul but I am inferring that subsidies can be direct subsidies (payment of money as in LaMalfas rice farm) or tax breaks (as in Exxon). Yes I agree that direct subsidies need to stop. That said I am not necessarily against tax breaks. Now for my next question? Who pays Exxon’s taxes? Is it Exxon or the consumer?

    Like

  48. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    I think the farmer subsidies are the ones that need to be in place. The poor get a cheaper tomato and other food this way. But I could be wrong.

    Like

  49. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: Paul Emery | 03 September 2017 at 11:09 PM
    It’s a piddly amount whatever it is Nothing like a subsidized $24 million salary

    The eternal whine of the relativist…….”I only killed one guy……not fifty like that guy over there”.
    Exxon can pay Tillerson whatever they want! It’s none of your business unless your a shareholder Punch. If you want to shut down subsidies I suggest you start calling democratic lawmakers as the ball will likely be in their court in a few years.
    Let me know how receptive they are to your pleading!

    Like

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