231 responses to “Sandbox – 17dec16”

1. 

   Gregory

   29 December 2016

   Paul, we know from the WikiLeaks that Trump (along with Cruz and Rubio) was pushed at the beginning by the Clintonista mainstream press even before the primary voting started. They wanted a candidate guaranteed to fail for the Annointed One.
   “Where did we go right?” – Max Bialystock
   The problem was that he was far more formidable than he was given credit for.
   Enjoy the show, you’ve earned it.

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2. 

   Don Bessee

   29 December 2016

   23 days to PE’s full meltdown. 😉

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3. 

   Gregory

   29 December 2016

   Paul, in college I had a professor who, unbeknown to faculty and students, was a spy for the KGB during WWII, passing up microwave developments to the Kremlin being paid for by the US war effort. This only became known after his death with releases by the former Soviet Union.
   He didn’t talk politics to students or faculty, though there was a report of a rip roaring argument at a local restaurant between E. and Edward Teller when he came into town to give a talk on quantum chromodynamics, cutting edge stuff at the time.
   In other words, Paul, when do you think the Russians weren’t spying on us, and besides the WikiLeaks (which the WikiLeaker in chief is adamant wasn’t given to them by Russians), just what do you think the Russians released that affected the election?
   Be specific, Paul, and this is a question you keep ignoring. People are noticing 😉

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4. 

   Paul Emery

   29 December 2016

   Gregory
   There is no way to quantify exactly how it affected the election but in my view that was the intent and to some degree it was successful. The cheering and backslapping by the Russian Parliament or whatever it is called graphically demonstrates that as well as the Trump and Putin gush-fest that makes me sick to my stomach . Why do you think they were so pleased at the results of the election?
   Beyond that it is yet another demonstration of Trumps astounding lack of class that he would use stolen personal documents for his political advantage.
   Should that be applied locally in the Supes race for example if Heidi Hall were to have received stolen emails about her opponent that were released through a third party would it have been okay if she used them in her campaign?

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5. 

   Gregory

   29 December 2016

   Paul, you continue to assume the WikiLeaks were sourced by Putin and ignoring Assange & Friends who keep saying they know where it came from and it was via Moscow. Why is that?
   Here’s a piece from The Guardian back in October:
   https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/oct/25/hillary-clinton-syria-no-fly-zones-russia-us-war
   Maybe the Russky Parliament was happy the candidate not trying to provoke WWIII won. Plausible? I would be happy if I were they. I was even happier while not being Russian.

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6. 

   Paul Emery

   29 December 2016

   By the way Gregory, do you support the sanctions Obama today imposed on the Russians?
   The entire US intelligence community and the Senate, according to McCain and Graham are in agreement that the Russians were the instigators of the hacking so you have to ask yourself what additional information do you need to take an opposing position. What do you know that would contradict their view. Trump will be up against the wall for a while on this one by those asking the simple question as to what does he knows that may contradict the intells and senate.

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7. 

   George Rebane

   29 December 2016

   re PaulE 248pm – My goodness, it sure looks like PaulE has made another prediction. Everybody, stand back!

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8. 

   Gregory

   29 December 2016

   First Paul, thanks for punting on trying to excuse the Clinton desire to flirt with WWIII. One more example of our local professional fake newsman deciding to ignore contrary information.
   We really know nothing, Paul. You still can’t tell me (nor has Obama) whether there’s anything besides the WikiLeaked files that are the reason for all this… no, that the Russians may well have hacked into the same system does not mean the files didn’t come from a Democratic insider sick over the Clinton machinations like Assange has repeated over and over.
   Obama’s intelligence people knew about Russian hacking for a long time… now they’re locking the barn door.
   Without real disclosures as to what these intelligence services claim is the Russian interference with elections in November, I can’t say one way or the other about these specifics. The USSR/Russian UN delegations have been a hotbed of spies since the beginning of the UN, so I’d say the real target of Obama’s wrath is probably Donald Trump.
   I remember Ambassador Jean Kirkpatrick, when an underling let fly with an invitation for the USSR and their allies to move the UN Headquarters to Europe, assured them she’d stand on the dock and wave goodbye herself. Our own Iron Maggie.

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9. 

   Don Bessee

   29 December 2016

   Your boring now PE, is this really the hot topic of conversation in the Nevada City watering holes? 😉

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10. 

    Paul Emery

    29 December 2016

    Clinton desiring to flirt with WW111? Where did that come from and what does it have to do with what we’re talking about? Entirely different topic. Weak dodge Gregory. You can do better.
    Real disclosures? All US intelligence services claim it’s from Russian hacking Gregory. What else do you need? You know they can’t reveal exact sources, Good Grief!!!

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11. 

    Paul Emery

    29 December 2016

    Are you trying to get me to support Hillary on this one Gregory? I didn’t vote for her so why should I comment?

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12. 

    Don Bessee

    29 December 2016

    The fact you were so lame for years on the topic of Russia on the march leaves you 0 cred on this topic PE. 😉

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13. 

    Paul Emery

    29 December 2016

    Gregory
    Here’s detailed information from the FBI on the Russian operation. Anything else you need?
    https://www.us-cert.gov/sites/default/files/publications/JAR_16-20296.pdf

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14. 

    fish

    29 December 2016

    Posted by: Gregory | 29 December 2016 at 03:13 PM
    Greg I don’t think it’s likely that you’ll get anything other the the preprogrammed responses you’ve been getting from Paul since just after the election. He’s well into his own personal “Red Scare”! Wait a couple more months for him to decompress and he’ll probably be a little more lucid.

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15. 

    Gregory

    29 December 2016

    PE 323
    You obviously didn’t read the article in The Guardian that I posted the link to at 2:32PM, or it would have made perfect sense. Imposing a Syrian don’t fly zone after the Russians are fully involved would be flirting with WWIII… if you don’t think so, try shooting down some Russian jets yourself.
    The time to put a lid on Assad was back when Clinton and Obama were assuring us that area terrorism was all but over… a horrible video was the cause of our Ambassador and his staff getting killed in Benghazi, and Re-elect Barack Hussein Obama, who got the US out of the Middle East safely.
    Hard to write that with a straight face but I tried.
    Trump is the result. Enjoy.

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16. 

    Don Bessee

    29 December 2016

    Now Gregory you cant expect facts to get in the way of PE’s Trump derangement syndrome. 😉

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17. 

    Paul Emery

    29 December 2016

    Gregory
    Of course I read the article but that’s old news and she lost anyway. What does that have to do with what’s happening today?
    Fish, Gregory did you follow the link to the FBI* report before opening your mouth? You wanted proof Gregory???
    Bessee, why don’t you try to say something intelligent sometime. You’re kind of an irritating vocal sniper with nothing to say.

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18. 

    fish

    29 December 2016

    Interesting to watch a man go full “Cold Warrior” at this stage of his life!
    

    “As the DHS writes, “this document provides technical details regarding the tools and infrastructure used by the Russian civilian and military intelligence Services (RIS) to compromise and exploit networks and endpoints associated with the U.S. election, as well as a range of U.S. Government, political, and private sector entities. The U.S. Government is referring to this malicious cyber activity by RIS as GRIZZLY STEPPE.”
    Where things get awkward, however, is at the very start of the report, which prefaced by a broad disclaimer, according to which nothing in the report is to be relied upon and that everything contained in it may be completely false.
    No really: “this report is provided “as is” for informational purposes only. The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) does not provide any warranties of any kind regarding any information contained within. DHS does not endorse any commercial product or service referenced in this advisory or otherwise.”

    You made a reasonable statement 3 or 4 days ago about “needing to agree to disagree” you probably should have quit then…..at least until there’s something more than the rantings of two of the more bellicose senators to go on!
    They’re going to hold hearings….why don’t you wait until after those to render a final opinion.
    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-12-29/grizzly-steppe-fbi-dhs-release-report-russian-hacking

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19. 

    Todd Juvinall

    29 December 2016

    Paul Emery | 29 December 2016 at 03:34 PM
    Where is the actual fact of the Russians? I just read your link and it is all deductions, noi facts. If I am wrong, do some of your favorite Cut/Paste of the report to prove your points.
    I am developing a view that this is all political anyway. No proof. But it does try to put Trump into a untenable position perhaps. And maybe his response would be impeachable. We will see.

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20. 

    Don Bessee

    29 December 2016

    PE you just don’t want to talk about your miserable history on foreign policy under 0. You are late to the issue and thus a dilatant when it comes to concerns about Russia on the move. Where was your indignation when 0 gave Putin the OK to break bad in 0’s second term or the build up in Syria? You should try some gold bond for that irritation. 😉

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21. 

    Todd Juvinall

    29 December 2016

    And why no outrage at Obama injecting money and help into the try at defeating Bibi for reelection? You must be OK with meddling then?

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22. 

    Gregory

    29 December 2016

    Paul, your question was why would the Russian parliament be happy about Clinton losing if it wasn’t because they were trying to throw the election…
    the answer was Clinton’s stated policy for Syria would have led to a shooting war with the Russians, but you chose to ignore The Guardian article.

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23. 

    Gregory

    29 December 2016

    Paul Emery 334, that document has nothing about what they supposedly did to throw the election. Nothing about WikiLeaks, which was the apparent mechanism being touted by the CIA.
    Yes, the Russians were snooping. That was never in doubt.
    The problem seems to be you really don’t have a clue. Let me guess, when you were in high school you were one of the good musicians who were lousy students? I know the type, all my musician friends thought that since I was a good musician I must be stupid, too. An easy mistake to make.

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24. 

    Paul Emery

    29 December 2016

    Okay Gregory, I get your drift. They (the Russians) cheered because Clinton would have put them in a position that would require them to escalate military action against the US. That’s mildly plausible and I’ll accept it as your explanation of the Russian revelry over Trump being elected.

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25. 

    Paul Emery

    29 December 2016

    Don
    Obama has a miserable and failed foreign policy in the middle east as did Bush. I’ve already stated that several times. Surely you must recall. Can you show me one time I supported his Middle East policy?

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26. 

    ScenesFromTheApocalypse

    29 December 2016

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jul/12/obama-admin-sent-taxpayer-money-oust-netanyahu/
    H/T to Mr. Juvinall

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27. 

    fish

    29 December 2016

    Posted by: Paul Emery | 29 December 2016 at 04:43 PM
    Interesting how this very argument didn’t move you at all when I made it a week ago…..

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28. 

    Paul Emery

    29 December 2016

    Gregory
    As I said earlier there is no way to prove the Russians tilted the election but it is verifiable that Trump did the best he could to take advantage of their stealing private information and making it available through Wikileaks.

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29. 

    Don Bessee

    29 December 2016

    Can you name one time you objected to the resurgent bear in recent years? 😉

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30. 

    Paul Emery

    29 December 2016

    I don’t recall specifically Don. So many issues and so little time. I have expounded several times on our failed middle east policy though.

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31. 

    Paul Emery

    29 December 2016

    That’s like saying you cannot talk about Cuba because you haven’t expounded on Kashmir and the Hindu militants.

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32. 

    Paul Emery

    29 December 2016

    Here’s the latest from Politico:
    President Barack Obama’s eleventh-hour Russia sanctions present a big test for congressional Republicans, who are torn between decades-old GOP principles and their new standard-bearer’s unorthodox embrace of Russian President Vladimir Putin.
    Democrats are already seeking to exploit this rift, drafting legislation designed to make it harder for President-elect Donald Trump to unilaterally roll back Obama’s new sanctions.
    The goal is to force Republicans into a tough spot in which they can either soften their long-standing animosity toward Russia, opening themselves to charges of hypocrisy — or defy Trump, who on Wednesday dismissed efforts to punish Russia by saying “we

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33. 

    Paul Emery

    29 December 2016

    The rest of it. Trump says”why can’t we all just get along and be friends?”
    or defy Trump, who on Wednesday dismissed efforts to punish Russia by saying “we ought to get on with our lives.”
    “Now is not the ‘time to get on with our lives,’” Sen. Ben Cardin, the top Democrat on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, said in a statement. “The executive branch has acted, but it is imperative the legislative branch now pick up the ball and move it forward. Congressional sanctions can complement and strengthen these new executive sanctions.”

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34. 

    Gregory

    29 December 2016

    “They (the Russians) cheered because Clinton would have put them in a position that would require them to escalate military action against the US.”
    PE 443
    Paul, the words that eluded you were “they would have had to shoot back”. A blockade is an act of war.

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35. 

    Gregory

    29 December 2016

    Paul, you have yet to produce any document that says what all those intelligence services think was the actual mechanism for the Russians fiddling with our election.
    Not just poking around, actual bad acts that resulted in Trump winning. Not proof, just a clear, unambiguous allegation.
    It would probably help if you could actually read complex documents and have a clue as to what they say.

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36. 

    Don Bessee

    29 December 2016

    PE 453- Bush derangement syndrome does not count. 😉

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37. 

    Gregory

    29 December 2016

    “As I said earlier there is no way to prove the Russians tilted the election but it is verifiable that Trump did the best he could to take advantage of their stealing private information and making it available through Wikileaks. ”
    Paul, why do you keep assuming Assange and friends are lying when they say they didn’t get it from Russian hackers? Where in your documents does it show the wikileaked material was from a Russian hack? Not even talking proof… something more than ‘a month after something that looked like russkie hacking in the system that housed the info, wikileaks leaked data that sure looked similar’.
    “Gee, it could have been the Russians” is a lot different than “It WAS the Russians”.
    All you’ve repeated is innuendo you don’t understand very well, Paul.

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38. 

    Paul Emery

    29 December 2016

    Gregory
    I’m relying on the expertise of the security agencies and FBI that have said it was from the Russians. Why do you have a problem with that?

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39. 

    Paul Emery

    29 December 2016

    There you go again Bessee. Are you saying Bush had a successful Mid East policy? Even Trump says he lied about Iraq and should have been impeached. You are a very confused guy my friend -and I do consider you that.

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40. 

    Don Bessee

    29 December 2016

    PE- reading and not comprehending, you have spent years blaming every 0 screw up on Bush, that hardly counts toward your having had a correct view of the Russian threat. 😉

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41. 

    Gregory

    29 December 2016

    Paul, this might be hard for you to hear, but the CIA, NSA etc etc are people who also make mistakes and, on top of it, have been politicized for a very, very long time.
    The clearest statement remains an anonymous CIA source chatting with one of the main Clinton Campaign fake news sources, the New York Times. A sticky wicket.
    This is bullcrap playing to your desires to cripple Trump after Clinton lost fair and square.

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42. 

    Todd Juvinall

    29 December 2016

    Only allegations Paul Emery. I just watched a News program in real time as they say and there are only allegations. You did not read your own link.

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43. 

    Walt

    29 December 2016

    Paul.. When Bush left office, downtown Baghdad was safer than Chicago. The Middle East was shaky, but stable. Then “O” came along, and everything goes to shit.

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44. 

    Gregory

    29 December 2016

    Todd 533, in reality, it’s a giant step short of allegations. All we really have is innuendo.

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45. 

    Paul Emery

    29 December 2016

    Of course they are allegations You comp;etly ignore the link I sent you that is very specific. What you are saying is that the only way you believe they were involved is if they are tried and convicted by a jury. I don’t understand your motivation for taking such a lame stance on this issue,
    I mean I sent you a link to a 13 page report tat documents the actual details that show it was Russia behind the hacks.

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46. 

    Walt

    29 December 2016

    “O” has done so much damage in foreign relations, word has it most nations have stopped talking to “O” and Co., and are going directly to Trump and Associates.
    As for our “retaliation”,, just think about what a cyber attack just “might” trigger…
    An “accidental” launch of a missile? It would be no accident, but a made for TV excuse.
    It would make a good episode run of “24”.
    The way things are going, the party of butt-hurt will get us into a war with someone.. “Just because”.

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47. 

    Gregory

    29 December 2016

    Paul, what is confusing you is that
    1) everyone knows the Russians have been hacking for years.
    2) that document didn’t connect ANY dots from the hacking to the wikileaks. In fact, it didn’t even mention wikileaks or any other document dump, or any corruption of data they touched.
    So far, it all looks like bullshit to me but then I’m the one that actually has 20 years of networking experience so who am I to say anything?

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48. 

    Don Bessee

    29 December 2016

    Riddle me this PE; when did you ever express any concerns about our enemies hacking the US, especially the defense establishment in the last 7.9 years? 22 days to PE melting down. 😉

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49. 

    Bill Tozer

    29 December 2016

    So, was there a direct leak between the Russians and Wikileaks or not? What non-Wikileaks files did the Russians hack and what did they do with them? What government files did they get into? What the Russians have done with non-Wikileaks material I have not seen nor have been widely distributed.. Maybe they, like at least a half dozen other countries, just put them in their Intel collections. Snowden’s cables showed the world a heck of a lot more what we were doing and what other countries thought of Hillary and Obama’s naïveté than what one political party’s shenanigans ever revealed through Wikileaks.
    Sanctions? Like booting out 35 Russians? Oh, that will teach them. Like, if they can enter our government’s secure data with such ease, why do they even need spyies here?. The internet has changed the way we communicate…. and gather Intel.

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50. 

    Don Bessee

    29 December 2016

    OH NO MR BILL! The Dark Lord of Liberal Lament Land is going to accuse you of plagiarizing him over ‘the internet is changing the way we communicate’. Didn’t you hear that the Dark Lord of Liberal Lament Land wrote the bible and the dictionary and has a copyright? 😉

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