Sandbox – 15jun16

June 2016
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Sandbox – 15jun16

15 June 2016

[To salt this fresh pile of sand I offer two bagatelles from the news. The Great Divide posited and discussed in these pages is now being recognized more and more by media commentators. The newest label – “America’s cavernous divide” – comes from Fox News. And then there’s the unrecognized faux pas of Speaker Ryan who exhorts Trumpsters about unvetted Muslim immigrations, stating that such “bans” should be “security based and not religion based” while not recognizing that today they are equivalent when the religion is Islam. gjr]

Posted in Comment Sandbox

195 responses to “Sandbox – 15jun16”

Jon Dozer

15 June 2016

Gee whiz, is it something that I said? I seem to have hit on a nerve (ie. the truth)…even though I’m not Mr. Pelline.
So I say good night for now. I’ll be here until at least election day in November, when I will be very, very pleased to gloat- in a most humble way of course. Have a great night.

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Walt

15 June 2016

WOW! Finally some truth out of uh,”jon”. You got that right,”unreal”. It’s about time you speak a little about yourself.

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Gregory

15 June 2016

“Gee whiz, is it something that I said?”
It’s everything you’ve written, “Jon”.

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Gregory

15 June 2016

Funny thing… no one in this town would bother referring to “Mr.” Pelline. Other dishonorifics come to mind.

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Walt

16 June 2016

LIBS are back to their predicable selfs. “Don’t let a good crisis go to waste.”
The push to restrict guns is back with a vengeance. Yet NON of what they “propose” would have stopped any of the shootings. NONE… But the Left can rack up more hash marks of how many deaths to their beloved “gun free zone” brainstorm.
Where guns are banned, only those out to do harm will have them there. How come Progressives can’t comprehend that?

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fish

16 June 2016

No…..this can’t be right

AR-15s Flying Off the Shelves…
CIA warns ISIS using immigration

http://www.foxbusiness.com/features/2016/06/15/gun-shop-owner-ar-15s-flying-off-shelves-at-500-pop.html
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/national-politics/article84049057.html

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Bill Tozer

16 June 2016

We have identified the problem. It’s our POTUS.
http://www.breitbart.com/video/2016/06/15/watch-sean-hannity-video-contrasts-obamas-praise-islam-criticism-christianity/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social
We have found the solution:
https://www.facebook.com/Capitalists/photos/a.226491315514.290842.188355460514/10157140481400515/?type=3&theater

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Bill Tozer

16 June 2016

Yo Republican Establishment: you are still the enemy and we do not need your help. It’s no longer you in charge, duh. No worries. Obama and Hillary are next, if you need a pacifier.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/trump-gop-leadership-sit-down-100000380.html

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Bill Tozer

16 June 2016

E
https://patriotpost.us/posts/43199
https://www.facebook.com/PatriotPost/photos/a.82108390913.80726.51560645913/10153790762895914/?type=3&theater

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Bill Tozer

16 June 2016

P
https://www.facebook.com/RowdyConservatives/photos/a.217983685002343.55586.217926015008110/861770850623620/?type=3&theater

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Jon Dozer

16 June 2016

Sorry to once again disappoint the Deniers here, but NASA once again reports that the record heat continued in May- now month after month after month of records.
http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2016/06/15/3788651/greenland-record-globe-hottest-year/

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jon smith

16 June 2016

Dozer, you don’t get it. Those are the same clowns who claimed they put a man on the moon. Yada yada. They’re just a conglomeration of climatologists collaborating with thousand of their ilk around the globe. What do they know? The TV weatherman on FOX said it’s junk science. So it must be junk science.

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George Rebane

16 June 2016

The reader with a smidgen of science and a bit more critical thinking skills will note that the above 343pm and 358pm imply that NASA’s report yet again warns of preventable anthropogenic climate change (cum global warming), when all it does is confirm cyclic weather patterns. But without such assets, we have just another True Believer alarum.

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Walt

16 June 2016

Here we o again with the phony “agw”. NASA has lost it’s creds on the subject. They have been busted for cooking the books right along with NOAA.
I heard that “report” this morning. The first thing that came to mind was how much “adjusting” of the real numbers went on THIS time.
Never mind snow in the middle of June in Tahoe.
As for the home grown terrorist,,, The FBI got warned!!!
http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2016/06/16/gun-shop-owners-declined-sell-orlando-jihadi-reported-authorities/

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Jon Dozer

16 June 2016

No Walt, NASA hasn’t lost any “creds”. Only to right wing bloggers and news outlets. Hardly bastions of scientific thought. It remains the go-to source on climate data.
But thanks for taking the time to comment.

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John

16 June 2016

Is it possible that NASA is the go-to source for unemployed award winning journalists and not AGW skeptics?

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Todd Juvinall

16 June 2016

I recall not long ago Obama ordered NASA to become a Muslim friendly agency. It was pretty funny.

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Jon Dozer

16 June 2016

It is certainly the source for former County Supervisors of no distinction.

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Todd Juvinall

16 June 2016

Here is one link.
http://www.truthrevolt.org/news/flashback-obama-turns-nasa-muslim-outreach-program
They kind of lost their creds when this took place. At least there was a 99% of all scientists consensus this was a stupid move

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Todd Juvinall

16 June 2016

Jon Dozer | 16 June 2016 at 04:56 PM
Oh my, when cornered for stupidity, the troll Jon Dozer resorts to that. What a hoot!

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Jon Dozer

16 June 2016

Not referring to you in particular Todd.

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Gregory

16 June 2016

The Arctic heatwave is not happening. The Danes have the summer temps north of the 80th parallel right at normal.
http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/meant80n.uk.php
Overall, atmospheric temperature anomalies are plunging in the Southern Hemisphere and are dropping in the north, too:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ck9TgdDVAAAH0eL.jpg:large
El Nino is dead, Jeff, La Nina is coming and, by a number of solar physicists, a solar minimum is also on its way.

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Gregory

16 June 2016

NASA-GISS is a hotbed of activist scientists, as opposed to real scientists. Originally James Hansen’s sandbox, it was taken over by Gavin Schmidt when Hansen retired not long ago.
It might seem strange to observers as to why NASA-GISS relies on surface temperatures when there are unimpeachable satellite measurements, thanks in large part to other NASA groups, but they just can’t correct the satellite measurements like they can correct the terrestrial record.
For a fun blast from the past, see Gavin get his ass absolutely kicked by skeptics Lindzen, Stott and Crichton in 2007, the last time Gavin appeared in public to discuss climate with informed scientists from the other side. A complete turnaround by a liberal manhatten audience, complete with a Bronx cheer for Gavin at one point:
http://intelligencesquaredus.org/debates/past-debates/item/559-global-warming-is-not-a-crisis
In fact, at one point in a sidebar with Stott Gavin denounces another scientist’s research as bogus, but the scientist mentioned, astrophysicist Nir Shaviv, spent a recent year as an IBM Einstein Fellow at Princeton’s Institute for Advanced Study building on that research dismissed by Schmidt, who is a mathematician not a scientist and there is a difference.
The harder they come the harder they fall. The longer Democrats keep the climate inquisition going the worse the crash will be.

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Walt

16 June 2016

Gotta love those who listen to the political science weather reporters.
Hope you have the coat and heater on in the middle of June.

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jon smith

16 June 2016

Dozer, didn’t I tell you? That Chico made-for-TV weatherman is the global authority. NASA, NOAA, etc have nothing on him. I bet you still believe NASA put a man on the moon. Me too. Silly us.

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Todd Juvinall

16 June 2016

Yes that Chico fellow has debunked all your consensus dupes on the grant payroll. Good call.

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Russ Steele

16 June 2016

John Dozer here are a few recommendations for you to remedy your climate change ignorance:
1 Start by getting a grasp of the basic science of climate change by reading former Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) Chairman Sir John Houghton’s Global Warming: The Complete Briefing.
2 Then, to learn some of the reasons for doubting Houghton’s somewhat alarmist views, read The Great Global Warming Blunder: How Mother Nature Fooled the World’s Top Climate Scientists, by equally well-qualified climate scientist Roy W. Spencer.
3 If you’re brave, get into the weeds of why the IPCC said in its Third Assessment Report, “The climate system is a coupled non-linear chaotic system, and therefore the long-term prediction of future climate states is not possible” (emphasis added), by reading Taken By Storm: The Troubled Science, Policy and Politics of Global Warming, by applied mathematician Christopher Essex and environmental economist and statistician Ross McKitrick. You’ve probably never heard of the Navier-Stokes equation, but it is unsolved (and a million-dollar prize awaits anyone who solves it), yet accurate long-term prediction of climate requires its solution.
4 Go beyond journalists’ breathless reports based on the biased and unrepresentative Summary for Policymakers and actually read the (mostly very good) thousands of pages of the main texts of the Fifth Assessment Report of the IPCC (including Working Group 3, whose predictions indicate countries poorest today are better off under warmer than cooler scenarios because in their models economic growth fueled by fossil fuels drives the warming). In them you’ll discover far more uncertainty than the SPM reveals.
5 Read the thousands of pages of the competing reports from the Nongovernmental [hence less politicized] International Panel on Climate Change.
6 Get acquainted with the meaning of “climate sensitivity” and why estimates of it—and consequently of all effects of global warming driven by human emissions of CO2 and other deceptively named “greenhouse gases”—have been declining over the years.
7 Learn a little about “energy density” and “power density” and how they relate to questions about the engineering and costs of various energy sources from Robert Bryce’s Power Hungry: The Myths of “Green” Energy and the Real Fuels of the Future and then about the costs of replacing fossil fuels as the source of roughly 85% of all the world’s energy with wind, solar, and other “renewable” options.
If you cannot find the time to get the facts, your climate pronouncements are without merit, so do not waste our bandwidth with your lefty babble.

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fish

16 June 2016

Wow….it’s like the federal government doesn’t care about these until they can use them as pretext.
http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2016/06/16/gun-shop-owners-declined-sell-orlando-jihadi-reported-authorities/

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Bill Tozer

16 June 2016

Well, that liberal mind is something else. When there are no guns or bombs around, blame White Privelge. Go Social Warriors, go!
http://heatst.com/culture-wars/sjw-blames-disney-toddler-alligator-attack-on-white-privilege/

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Walt

16 June 2016

Hay LIBS!! another one of your own wants to scrap the Bill of Rights.
http://dailycaller.com/2016/06/16/democratic-senator-we-need-gun-control-because-due-process-is-whats-killing-us-right-now-video/
Yet the LIBS he represents will STILL vote for the somebitch. Another fine example of why Liberalism is a clear and present danger to America.

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Todd Juvinall

16 June 2016

So BillT was that a white female hussy or a black woman claiming “white privilege” on the gator eating the kid?

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jon smith

16 June 2016

Russ
Touch base with reality instead of picking out the zebras in a rangeland of horses. Every single one of your points has been debunked again and again by mainstream scientists. I could lay out the same sort of “facts” about how vaccines, chem trails, fluoride, and smart meters are part of an international conspiracy to keep us under the thumb of the UN, LIBOR, or some other international gang of thugs. I can hear you now, “Oh, look! Bigfoot just ran across my deck!” Smoke another bowl of opium and tuck Reinette into bed for me. You are insane.

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Walt

16 June 2016

Really Smith? The ones you buy into have an agenda. MONEY in the form of grants.
So they monkey with the data to “prove” a preconceived outcome. Funny how those long range computer model results just didn’t pan out. Hawaii is still inhabitable, and has yet to sink under the waves. The ice caps are still there despite the claims they would be GONE by TODAY. Have all those glaciers melted into history? That was the prediction. Snow still fell in Washington D.C. this winter,, but snow was to be a thing of the past that kids would only read about today. Umm,,, how’s that work’n out?
I could bring up plenty more horseshit dire claims of AGW that were supposed to be gospel.
But why bother.
The turd is in your corner of the sandbox now. Let the excuses beginu

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Scott Obermuller

16 June 2016

from jon smith – “Every single one of your points has been debunked again and again by mainstream scientists.”
Citations?
AGW is hooey. Remember the ‘settled’ science of The End Of Snow. Be sure to repeat that one in a really deep, scary voice. Turned out to be Endless Snow. And how about the coming season of the worst hurricanes ever? Instead we had the quietest season as far as most can remember.
Get real, folks – it’s baloney. Of course the climate is changing. That’s why we’re not under miles of ice.
Obviously, facts just bounce off the ever-faithful.
NY city will be under water any minute now. Stay tuned.

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Gregory

16 June 2016

“jon smith”, you need a dose of reality from an unimpeachable source, James Lovelock, father of the Gaia hypothesis:

The great climate science centres around the world are more than well aware how weak their science is. If you talk to them privately they’re scared stiff of the fact that they don’t really know what the clouds and the aerosols are doing. They could be absolutely running the show. We haven’t got the physics worked out yet. One of the chiefs once said to me that he agreed that they should include the biology in their models, but he said they hadn’t got the physics right yet and it would be five years before they do. So why on earth are the politicians spending a fortune of our money when we can least afford it on doing things to prevent events 50 years from now? They’ve employed scientists to tell them what they want to hear.

In short, “mainstream climate science” is weak. The big centers, like Gavin Schmidt’s NASA-GISS, mostly write computer models that are poorly verified and mostly just made to fit what data they have (often heavily adjusted to fit expectations) in a process generally referred to as parameterization.
To date, all IPCC models have greatly overpredicted warming, and far from having reached a consensus, the IPCC range of the single most important quantity, how much warming should we expect from a doubling of atmospheric CO2, remains in the same range of 1.5C to 4.5C that it was in 1979 by the same crowd.
ALL the scary warming catastrophes occur if CO2 sensitivity is 2.0C or above.
Physicists, working in the other direction from basic thermodynamics and planetary measurements, are narrowing sensitivity down to a range of 1 to 1.7C, safely below any danger and small compared to natural variations.
This is good news unless your career is based on nature being inherently unstable and positive feedbacks dominating the climate despite the lack of any runaway positive feedback driven warming event in the past.
There are plenty of mainstream scientists who have not accepted the IPCC narrative but they are in physics and meteorology departments.

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Russ Steele

16 June 2016

Jon Smith@09:22PM
You wrote: “Every single one of your points has been debunked again and again by mainstream scientists.” How in the hell would you know, you did not even read any of the references. Prove me wrong by citing the specific points and the mainstream scientist that debunked them. Let’s not change the subject by introducing junk science, just focus on the climate issues.

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Bill Tozer

16 June 2016

Come on guys, I am still here in the Inferno Zone waiting for beach front property. “I’m waiting, I’m waiting”… Hey, that sounds like the Mongoloid. Gotta string some barbed wire and some sharpened sticks and pointed poles around to keep the boatloads of Frisco refugees at bay, pun intended. Gawd, we can’t have those people coming up here seeking dry land. Look what they did to Redwood City. See any redwoods there? Just look what the folks from Frisco did to their own place. I shudder to think of what those Frisco types would do to our beautiful neck of the woods. Probably turn it into a Sanctuary County that smells like sewage to fight homesickness.
I need some steel nets if the rich ones come by submarines. It’s a private beach and I got the big ugly stick waiting to smash some melons when they start washing up on MY rocky shore. Boy, I see some serious drawbacks to Global Frying like ants under a magnifying glass. “Ahoy mate, I got a big surprise for you.” People from Carmichael are welcome…its those Frisco ones that carry air borne diseases and weird freaky liberal mental illness thought processes that even the dogs can’t stomach I dread.

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Bill Tozer

17 June 2016

Fight fire with ice:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jun/16/gop-ags-dems-climate-alarmists-can-be-prosecuted/

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George Rebane

17 June 2016

A remarkable series of comments repeats itself on these pages re AGW. True Believers continually cite “mainstream scientists” for confirming their climate hysteria. But none of them would know a scientist, mainstream or otherwise, without their progressive politician pointing out who is who.

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BradC

17 June 2016

When we can ‘actually’ change the weather we will have a sufficient understanding of the science to say what industries or deities have been pulling the strings and controlling our weather.

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Gregory

17 June 2016

BradC 8:53AM
What if no industries or deities have been pulling the strings you are imagining and have not been controlling the weather?
It seems to me you’ve just drawn a random line in the sand that struck you as profound.
My view is more aligned with “when we have sufficient understanding of the science we will be able to predict what is going to happen”. To date, the predictions have been spectacularly wrong.
http://images.remss.com/figures/climate/RSS_Model_TS_compare_globe.png
Blue is reality, yellow are IPCC-blessed guesses.

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George Rebane

17 June 2016

BradC 853am – unfortunately that is not true. The ability to control regional weather over a limited time interval does not provide one the tools to understand the dynamics of earth’s climate in any sufficient detail to enable either its retrodiction or prediction, especially when we seek to isolate causal factors.
The best human science today (unknown to both the UN and the US federal government) makes a strong case about the ‘knowability’ of certain aspects of our universe that involve chaotic processes and stochasticity. One of these processes is the earth’s climate. Others include the behavior of societies, of markets, of economies,…, or of your own body.
In short, the science-innocent layman has been miseducated to believe that ‘science can know all’, but the truth is that there are hard limits to what we assemble as scientific knowledge. While the universe in the large sometimes presents itself as well-ordered (especially to the innumerate), existentially it is most niggardly in how and how much of itself it reveals. This is certainly the case as we use our currently evolved pea-brains to decipher what is, and then spout certainty where none exists.

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Gregory

17 June 2016

George, I expect many science illiterates think of “science” the way they think about “religion”… it’s in a book, you either believe or you are a heretic, and your elders chose your books for you. Folks in other tribes who read other books are ignorant or evil.
Actually discussing unsettled science requires a vocabulary and understanding of concepts like “energy” that most people do not have. Even a “science” PhD from Harvard might be unable to define what temperature is beyond a trivial “it’s the numbers on a thermometer”… I wouldn’t have believed that had Anna Haynes not demonstrated such complete ignorance when I asked her… that’s what happens when you’re allowed to graduate from high school, get a “science” BA in biology and then a PhD in biology from Harvard, all the while NEVER taking a class in physics (or not remembering ever having taking one which in many ways is the moral equivalent).
Haynes believed her Harvard PhD gave her an understanding about how science worked and enabled her to pick the right scientists to believe in fields in which she showed stunning ignorance. Dunning-Kruger incarnate.

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Bill Tozer

17 June 2016

I have said it before and I will say it again. Pomona College has a winning record against USC in football. So does a high school against Washington State, and another high school against W of Washington. And one high school against USC as well.
So, what does this have to do with the current thread? Absolutely nothing. I would pit any of those Pomona/Claremont area private small colleges against any UC university anytime when debating science. Well, chemistry you got to give to Berkely for a couple of reasons. They did keep a hunk of plutioum in a cigar box sitting on a shelf in the professor’s lab back in the day. Interesting story. We will give Harvard the kudos for coming up with Timothy Leary’s drug of choice, even though others take credit.
More stuff for the encyclopedia of worthless (and useless) information. Somehow I thought of Anna’s expertise and was compelled to comment. Have a nice day and may the best team win!

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Gregory

17 June 2016

I just had to come back and share this interview of Freeman Dyson:
https://youtu.be/BiKfWdXXfIs?t=11m35s
It starts just as Dyson (one of the 20th century greats who is still no slouch) is asked about the role of the sun in climate, and he does a lovely job of citing the very physicist whose 2003 paper was the tipping point for me towards the skeptic side of the aisle, Nir Shaviv who Dyson would have met at his home digs at Princeton’s Institute of Advanced Studies during Shaviv’s sabbatical as an IBM Einstein Fellow at APS. Dyson earned those wrinkles and knew Einstein.
Shaviv is also the scientist whose work is dismissed as bogus by NASA-GISS mathematician (currently Director) and RealClimate activist Gavin Schmidt during the IntelligenceSquared debate in 2007. Posterity is on a clear course that should make Shaviv smell of roses while Schmidt’s fragrance will be less pleasant.

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Gregory

17 June 2016

And another linkage… it was the Shaviv & Veizer 2003 paper, “Celestial driver of Phanerozoic climate?” that I was citing when Anna Haynes bet me that dollar that I couldn’t back up my facts with a real paper from the legitimate literature, and it was that very paper I tried to hand to her to claim that dollar. She rejected it because it didn’t “graphically prove” the case it made.
Anna, wherever you are, you still owe me a dollar.

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Gregory

17 June 2016

BT, of the five Claremont Colleges, only Mudd and Pomona have any science to speak and the vast majority of Pomona students don’t take any real science (as is the case of the student body at UC Berkeley), while all of the Mudd students take the first 3+ semesters of every science offered. Math, too.
A lovely lass from Pomoma I dated for a time lived at the international dorm, Oldenborg, very probably Heidi Hall’s choice. Nice place. Better food than the Mudd dining hall which they paid more for.
The kiddies at Pitzer, Scripps and CMC can only spell science with help from a dictionary. Last I heard Pitzies didn’t even have to submit SAT scores.

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Gregory

17 June 2016

Hmmm, so “Tozer”, what’s your connection to Cal’s chemistry department?

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Bill Tozer

17 June 2016

Well, Gregory, Let’s just say it’s ancient history. Goes back to the 30’s when Cal went to the Rose Bowl and won. Yes, ancient history. Then there was that time that Dr. Kaczynski (PHd mathematics, albeit from Ann Arbor) and I went on a survival weekend…opppps, nuff said.
Don’t know why, but Cal chemistry grads and I have crossed paths and left as good friends after we skipped down the Yellow Brick Rd. Even have one in the family, but she went off to work for Teach Ametica in Baltimore of all places, got her masters, then went off to work on some US segment of the big ole’ super conductor in Northern Europe somewhere while working on her doctorate at some upstate NY school. Then she got bored and now works for some non-profit Musuem Association where she tours the nation and sees what kind of forgotten stuff is in the off limit basements of those kind of famous museums. Chicago Museum is her home base I believe. Perfect job for her as she was homeschooled and is sort of a quiet type.
But, Gregory, that was all a diversion. Can’t answer your question directly, but let’s just say that sometime before Dr. Ted (the child prodigy) and my niece, I became acquainted with some Cal chem/physics/math brainiacs on various occasion. Hush, hush and all that secret decoder ring stuff.
Oh, her name was Ona….from a foreign country like Sweden and happened to be at the same seminar weekend. Oh, to be young again. Too bad those Pomana kids decided to have a big food fight in front of the original mural painted by Deigo Rivera or one of the Big Three….or was it Picasso? Ona sure was a swell gal. .

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Jon Dozer

17 June 2016

sorry to bring you boys back to depressing reality in the HuffPo headlines today.
Oh my Mr. Drumpf, the wheels are coming loose..
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/

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