Sandbox – 28jun15

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Sandbox – 28jun15

28 June 2015

[This is the first post-comment rules sandbox. We await with bated breath … . gjr]

Posted in Comment Sandbox

185 responses to “Sandbox – 28jun15”

Jon

02 July 2015

“You even admit the burned churches are a response to banning confederate symbols. What a great result that was!” Scott 8:25am
Scott, I’m still shocked that you are, in effect, excusing the burning of black churches because people made white southern racists upset.

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Gregory

02 July 2015

http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/P1-BG954_LABOR__G_20120709185413.jpg
here you go, folks, labor unions political expenditure s.
WSJ article http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702304782404577488584031850026

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George Rebane

02 July 2015

Jon 954am – You didn’t read my 829am very carefully. I said the IGNORING of black-on-black murders by the government(s) and the lamestream is a patently racist practice, not the killings per se. Were the perp and victim not b-on-b, then all kinds of hell would be raised with multi-agency investigations and media outrage. Yet liberals (like you?) never worry much about the thousands of b-on-b killings annually, save to use the aggregate statistics of such tragedies as fodder for increasing welfare programs and imposing new gun controls on law-abiding gun owners – you know, the usual crap.

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Todd Juvinall

02 July 2015

Fascinating that the myopic view of the world does not expand beyond the borders of America regarding “racism”. India, with 1.5 billion people has a “caste” system. If you are in the lower caste structure is that “racism? Chinese and Vietnamese hate each other. Both are “Asian” yet the subgroups in those countries care not and are prejudice for each other. In America, they get along quite well, same as Indians of all castes here as well. How about the Armenians and the Ottoman Turks? Was that racism by two “protected” classes of “minorities? They both seem to get along in America.
We have created a whole lot of whining ungrateful people in America and a whole lot of shysters making money off keeping divisions of Americans in turmoil. Perhaps we need to create some new laws allowing those of us who are fed up with these divisive people to take those scum to court and take their money. Maybe that will force them into reality.

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George Rebane

02 July 2015

re ToddJ’s 1027am – A valuable footnote in this discussion. We seem to get all exercised about buying goods made in Asian sweatshops that provide people an economic step up. But we are silent about their vicious and longstanding practices of racism. Recall that eliminating such racism was an integral part of Bush2’s futile attempt at ‘nation building’. (Don’t take this as my endorsement for us to go in there and impose racial egalitarianism, even if we could.)

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Jon

02 July 2015

George 10:26, I believe what you mean to say is virtually everyone in America in positions of leadership ignores the black-on-black epidemic of violence. This is not a partisan issue. Which Republican lawmakers have raised this issue as one of their priorities in recent years? With Republican Congress austerity in place, where has the issue reared its head anywhere in the last several years?
And oh yeah Todd, lets compare American values with those of the Caste system and Vietnamese. Not sure of what your point is. Our values protect human rights, and we stomp out racism and discrimination where detected. By the way, the most vocal advocates of human rights in Asia happen to be…..progressives. Read about their opposition to TPP and you will find much discussion about the appaling record in SE Asia.

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Todd Juvinall

02 July 2015

There is a week long teachers conference study program in Portland Oregon that has been going on for many years. The Teachers are inculcated with “whites” are all racists. Those taxpayers dollars are sure well spent in white cracker Portland eh?
Jon, yes, we need to discuss racism since the left has demanded that we act locally and think globally. Yes, those things are important. I am surprised you don’t care about how other cultures treat those within their countries. That is not right. We need to care for all people.

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Jon

02 July 2015

??? What the hell are you talking about Todd? I just agreed that racism and discrimination are rampant in other countries. What do you propose you and I should do about some of those things? Í certainly contribute money to foreign charities who help people in developing nations, including some with spotty records of civil rights. And you?

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Jon

02 July 2015

Regarding the Oregon teachers conference, Todd indicated “the Teachers are inculcated with “whites” are all racists.” All racist ha?
Would appreciate the citation for that very suspicious accusation. Thanks.
Doesn’t pass the smell test.

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Todd Juvinall

02 July 2015

Jon I guess the critical thinking capability has passed you by? And yes, they teach all whites are racists. Happy to have you on board the white racist train Jon. So, now that you are identified as a racist, what should be done?

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Scott Obermuller

02 July 2015

“Scott, I’m still shocked that you are, in effect, excusing the burning of black churches because people made white southern racists upset.”
Except I didn’t excuse any such thing. Once again, jon deliberately twists my posts because he has again failed to address my original point.
You admit you are ‘happy’ to piss off people. How does this advance anything good? How does this help alleviate violence? Getting rid of the confederate symbols will not stop the violence one bit.
Do you want to stop the cycle of violence or just piss people off?
And yes – a lot of the inner city problems with blacks is black racism.
Black children that do well in school are called racist names by other blacks. Blacks that walk away from the ghetto and make something of them selves are called all sorts of racists names by other blacks.
We know what can lift the blacks living in poverty out of poverty, but the white left and so-called black leaders don’t want to implement the changes needed.

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Jon

02 July 2015

Yes Scott, am happy to agitate and irritate people who contribute to injustice, predjudice and hatred with their outward words and symbols. Yes. Free Speech allowed, but they will be called out. Was not MLK an agitator? or would you have supported the continuation of those firehoses aimed on black agitators in the South seeking equal rights?

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Jon

02 July 2015

Scott, AGREE 100% on the major problem in the black community, stigmatizing their own people, due to education and attainment of success. I don’t have answers, and yes, we need more leaders stepping up to address those types of things.

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Jon

02 July 2015

Todd, yup all for critical thinking, so lets see proof of what you claimed. I personally don’t believe you when you spout a very odd accusation about a teachers conference. Lets see the transcript, or agenda at the very least.
Critical thinking is the polar opposite of taking what you say at face value.

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Jon

02 July 2015

Bigger question remains- why are you guys so damned offended by calling out white racists? Who are you defending- family members?

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Jon

02 July 2015

“We know what can lift the blacks living in poverty out of poverty.” Scott
Ah yesk, the all knowing (white) father knows best! Just let rural white conservatives tell the black community in urban America whats best for them! LOL.

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George Rebane

02 July 2015

JOn 1126am – Jon, I don’t think diverting/expanding the blame to Republicans will serve you. It has been the Democrats who for decades have bathed in the comfort of black votes who have promised, promoted, and legislated the programs that have kept the blacks measurably gruberized with teeth firmly clenched on the government tit. Insisting otherwise will drive me from this thread. And, practiced countrywide, it most certainly will not benefit the blacks. But it will keep them voting Democrat, and after all, that is the real objective – God knows who they’ll vote for if they’re given the tools to get ahead.

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Jon

02 July 2015

There has been a decided lack of LEADERSHIP within the Democrat Party on matters of urban America. I can only agree. The attitudes of the rank and file Democrats(of which I am not one) are quite different.

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Gregory

02 July 2015

Jon needs to read the Moynihan Report, and all should note white illegitimate childbirths are at about where the rate for blacks were then. Same trajectory?
What was that guaranteed recipe for avoiding poverty? No kids without marriage, graduate from high school, get and keep a job?
Works for all races.

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Jon

02 July 2015

George,
further however, the only Pres. candidate seriously and realistically touching on matters of urban America and poverty right now appears to be Bernie Sanders.
Ben Carson and perhaps Rubio seem to be of the “pull yourselves up by your bootstraps” approach. Would appreciate the Repubs making this a big campaign issue, and appreciate an honest recognition that yes, additional MONEY will be involved in such a multi-tiered, complex problem. The fact they can’t even whisper the $ word to their base is holding back an honest discussion on this topic. Bootstraps and conservative theories aren’t going to solve the problem.

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Jon

02 July 2015

speaking of Bernie, can anyone name any other candidate generating so much excitement? Major indoor arenas now everywhere he speaks. Grassroots money is off the charts.
http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/07/02/bernie-sanders-raises-15-million-from-a-wide-donor-base

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Gregory

02 July 2015

Took me 30 secs to find, “Jon”… Whitelandia
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Xz8NyGpIZR4
And yes, it counted towards some required continuing educational req for public schoolteachers.

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Jon

02 July 2015

Great Greg, I agree- we do hold white privilege as a race. Pretty clear.
Todd’s comment was they accused all whites of being racist at that conference.
Perhaps I missed it skimming the video, but I did not hear that.
Quite different things.

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Todd Juvinall

02 July 2015

Jon | 02 July 2015 at 12:46 PM
The yearly conference takes place in white cracker Portland for the teachers and is mandatory. I could care less if you believe it anyway Jon. Liberals have a problem with the truth and facts that don’t fit into the world view. So, I suggest you are now no better than the rest of us as you are a white cracker and a racist according to these liberals. That is what these “instructors” are spewing and the Portland cracker teachers are being taught. Welcome aboard Jon, you racist cracker. What a hoot!

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George Rebane

02 July 2015

Gregory 134pm – yes it works for all races, but it does not guarantee a reliably gruberized voting block for the Dems. They have keep such things when making public policy.
Jon 143pm – Jon, the money is already there. Every year hundreds of billions are pissed away on programs and projects with decades long failure records. I believe you lose all credibility here when, given the spending patterns of the last 40 years, you still bring up the tired old saw that ‘we need more money, and this time we’ll do the right thing’ – nobody but the ignorant and deep Left believe that crap any more.

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Jon

02 July 2015

Todd, you crack me up. I just watched the video and heard nothing of the sort of comment you claimed. How about saying “sorry, I was paraphrasing as best I could.”
Saying we all have white privilege is a far cry from saying we are all racists.
Your virtual apology is accepted in advance for misstating what was said at that conference. I know you did not mean to mislead.
By the way, LOVE Portland. Love, love, love. Great drink, great food, good people. Beautiful gardens.

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Jon

02 July 2015

“Welcome aboard Jon, you racist cracker” says Todd in reference to me, for some random reason.
Dr. R, please purge his entire 2:25 post- mostly a personal attack not remotely related to the current dialogue. Thank You.

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Gregory

02 July 2015

Jon, blacks who act white and graduate from high school, get married before having more and go to work get a great deal of “white privilege”, too.
College also helps earn whitey points, especially if they major in something like chemistry or engineering instead of ethnic studies.
One place where there is a distinct and often sad white privilege is when stopped by the police in the street… blacks kill cops at 4 times the date one might expect based on population size, so you might give the dumb paddy on patrol a bit of understanding when young black men get treated diferently than elderly Asian women.

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Todd Juvinall

02 July 2015

Not my video Jon. Gregory supplied the link. I said nothing about the link. Use that white cracker racist brain (according to the white liberal symposium in Portland) like I do and go check it out yourself. I think it was on CNN. Anyway, you just can’t accept the facts since they do not agree with your world view. Too bad, I thought liberals had open minds and liked debate.
Now you want the host to toss my “tongue in cheek” humor since it struck a nerve in you. I hope he doesn’t (my goodness you are a troll here, no one knows who you are). Dr. Rebane knows that the left has mastered sarcasm, one only needs to watch Jon Stewart’s skewering of conservatives on a daily basis.

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Jon

02 July 2015

Here’s your boy- The Donald- with yet another gem about desiring golf to become MORE elite, only the super rich should play the game. And you just gotta love that the guy is polling number 2 on the Repub side nationally! Go Donald! Poor Bobby Jindal, Poor John Kasich, Poor George Pataki, shoved aside in TV debates by this joke of a man.
http://www.nj.com/golf/index.ssf/2015/07/donald_trump_says_only_rich_pe.html

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Don Bessee

02 July 2015

The dept of justice has training that focuses on so called ‘unconscious racism’ that they claim we are all polluted with. You know things like knowing the crime rates and real world statistics of what happens in the slums. Their argument is that you can not unlearn those ‘passively racist’ things about people of color so all whites are racists at the core.

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Todd Juvinall

02 July 2015

Here is what the schools buy that is being inculcated into teachers noggins.
http://eagnews.org/school-districts-spending-millions-on-white-privilege-training-for-employees/
Regarding Trump. Isn’t it interesting the liberals mock him for his candor yet would give their left testicle to have his money and life. Calling him a joke while he employs thousands of Americans may make a nutless liberal happy, but the truth is Trump is no joke.
Interesting as well, NBC has Al Sharpton the race hustler on TV every day spewing his racial hate and not a word from the NBC goons in charge. I applaud Trump for his candor and standing up to the fruit loops running some other businesses in America. He will win his $500 million dollar lawsuit against the Mexican TV that dropped him. His contract is iron clad. Macy’s? I think I will just have to shop down the street at the Men’s Wearhouse.
Jon is just jealous apparently. It fits the style of liberals to mock success in America.

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Jon

02 July 2015

I just love all the many humorous exaggerations expressed by the far right in the last week coming from hard core conservatives, coming off that series of very progressive Supreme Court decisions. Just a sample:
-Incest and animal marriages are on deck and coming soon to an America near you.
-Sharia Law is the inevitable governing law in the future in many corners of America.
-Teachers are trained in (communist) Portland that all whites are racist.
-The DOJ trains that whites are racist at the core.
Oh my. We are indeed on different planets.

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Gregory

02 July 2015

“Here’s your boy- The Donald”
Who here sang Trump’s praises? If no one, why are you if not because you’re reduced to debating your own straw men?

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Gregory

02 July 2015

Jon 3:58
Every exaggeration you cited was in turn exaggerated by you. Spent a lot of time watching the Daily Show?

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Jon

02 July 2015

Todd, sorry to inform you, I wouldn’t give a warped penny for Trump’s life. He seems miserable and hasn’t had happy marriages. cough. As for his money, no one really knows what he’s worth. I imagine its a fraction of what he claims.

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Jon

02 July 2015

“He will win his $500 million dollar lawsuit against the Mexican TV that dropped him. His contract is iron clad”.
LOL. Sure it is. Like steel. Of course everything is just fine when the spokesperson insulted the majority of its core audience. Spoken like a true Trump press release! UNIVISION is a giant, colossal corporation and as we all know, every contract has termination clauses for bad behavior.

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Todd Juvinall

02 July 2015

Jon, you would not give a penny for Trump’s life eh? Thank you for showing us all that liberals are really people where “lives don’t matter”. I think Gregory has you pegged as a person arguing with themself. Don’t get whiplash in the mirror.

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George Rebane

02 July 2015

Jon 358pm – I think you attribute the following to me:
“-Incest and animal marriages are on deck and coming soon to an America near you.
-Sharia Law is the inevitable governing law in the future in many corners of America.”
If so, then with such misrepresentations our conversation about those topics is over.

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Steven Frisch

02 July 2015

Wow, reading like the last 30 entries on the thread all I can say is;
1) Jon is entirely correct, Todd is breaking the ‘rules;
2) Todd is entirely right, there is nothing either the video or the materials Todd supplied, that substantiated his comment that this training was emphasizing the idea that, “”whites are all racists.”
3) I regret to say it, but it is relatively common for Todd to be proven incorrect in his assertion from the very material he supplies, and then deny the veracity, which is often the opposite of ‘critical thinking’.
Finally, he is also correct that there is propensity by several posters to make claims that can not be substantiated, then replying that in essence, “I don’t care if my statement cannot be supported”. Let’s be honest, there are two ways to substantiate information, cite reliable sources, or make an original logical case based on logic, which means demonstrably valid reasoning.

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Don Bessee

02 July 2015

Apparently the ‘jon’ is as uninformed about the doj training they are forcing on LE and pushing on educational institutions as he is with most things. Your are correct on one point and that is that you live on a different planet.;-)

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George Rebane

02 July 2015

My recommendation to everyone who feels they are unreasonably being responded to is that they reference the thread, and declare their participation terminated. The readers can well make up their own minds as to where and with whom reason and logic ended.

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Steven Frisch

02 July 2015

Jon, it is kind of like trying to discuss an issue with someone and them not even trying to speak the same language… like some sort of Alice in Wonderland experience.
Jabberwocky.

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Todd Juvinall

02 July 2015

I agree with Steve Frisch at 4:51 PM. Liberals speak and practice “alien Nation” lifestyles and culture. Steve Frisch can’t find the video that enforces my viewing last night of the consultants hired by Portland schools to teach that white people, all white people are racist. Now why would he do that? He seems to be able to find anything so what is the problem with this? It is because now, he is being called a racist just because of his skin color and he can’t accept that. I just crack up these liberals are all so “sensitive”.
Since Mr. Frisch is fast and loose with the facts on the things he disagrees with, I would warn the readers to be very critical of anything he writes here.

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Steven Frisch

02 July 2015

Posted by: Todd Juvinall | 02 July 2015 at 05:02 PM
Todd, I watched the entire video, I read the article you linked, and I went out and poked around a bit on my own as well, and no where did I see anyone saying “all whites are racists”. I did find a few people interpreting the courses as saying all whites are racists but none of them referenced any specify passage or text where the claim was made.
There are such things as facts.
I actually 100% accept the fact that I have been a beneficiary of white privilege. I know it and don’t deny it. Nor is it racist that I acknowledge my white privilege.

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Jon

02 July 2015

Its hopeless Steve. Jabberwocky indeed. I really thought new ground rules would help, but as you correctly listed, certain posters are allowed free reign to make any unsubstantiated claims they want, and not be called on it. Todd was caught in a lie without any basis (thanks to Gregory’s link), and- as he has done many times on many threads- he is given a pass, nod and wink, to double down and deny the lie is false. Incredible. But at least those things highlight the Clown that Todd is; unfortunately it does not lead to meaningful discussions with solid citations for outlandish statements. I thought that was the goal here? Direct, clear and unsubstantiated personal attacks are ignored here, whereas on other threads, much more good natured jabs are deleted quickly. Ridiculous. The rules set the other night are meaningless.

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Steven Frisch

02 July 2015

Ah now Jon you are breaking the rules. You can say, “But at least those things highlight the similarity between Todd’s positions and those of a Clown….”

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Gregory

02 July 2015

As far as I am concerned, the video I linked gave substance to Todd’s note. It ain’t exact but is close enough, and if J&S took Todd with the massive grain of salt they give themselves they’d not be hanging out while finding new ways to call Todd a clown.

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Todd Juvinall

02 July 2015

Steven Frisch | 02 July 2015 at 05:12 PM
Don’t believe you. No veracity. If you did as you allege you did, you would have agreed with me. But, of course, the Steve Frisch who is claiming everyone is breaking George’s rules here still finds a way to call names while thinking he is so smart to dodge the rules. You just can’t make this stuff up. So again the readers need to disregard anything Mr. Frisch writes here as it is usually made up from whole cloth. Jon, the other, him too. What a hoot!

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Todd Juvinall

02 July 2015

Regarding being called a clown. Love it! These same libs called the Republicans running for President people coming out of a clown car. I am in good company.
BTW, Jim Webb, I think he was Reagan’s Navy Secretary, is tossing his hat in the ring against Hill-Billy and Bernie (I lust after women) Sanders. Jeeze this is special!

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