Sandbox – 11jun15

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Sandbox – 11jun15

11 June 2015

[Have no idea how the last sandbox overfilled so quickly. The foreign trade issues under the trifecta of initiatives now boiling – TPA, TPP, and the EU Services Agreement – got everyone exercised. It was edifying to watch how the barn was circled again and again. I come away wondering how much, if any, common ground has been identified between our polarized commenters (who, moi?). The Righties are concerned about TPP's impact on US sovereignty, while the Lefties are worried about loss of (union) jobs. Some are still confused about the TPA and require legislators to have a detailed knowledge of the TBD TPP before being able to cast a reasonable/defendable vote on the TPA. But I, and maybe others, would be interested if someone would summarize the discovery of any productive common ground – or is lapping the barn just a lot of fun for its own sake? gjr]

Posted in Comment Sandbox

200 responses to “Sandbox – 11jun15”

Todd Juvinall

11 June 2015

The New York Times has really become no better than TMZ. Their Rubio front page stories are so infantile. But Hillary Clinton’s peccadilloes are no where to be found.
Still waiting for Paul Emery to tell us where and who gave him the TPP information. Come on let us in on this Paul!
Have not heard from Ben Emery either as to his bona fides on the TPP, NAFTA etal. He said all of us conservatives didn’t know anything about trade. So Ben Emery, give us your creds please.

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Walt

11 June 2015

Sniff,sniff,snifffff… ahhhhh. Thanks Doc,, it was really getting ripe in the other box.
I will pick up where the other left off, since the LIB crew just won’t “go there”.
Ben maybe missed my question on little Suzy and her lemonade stand, and all the hoops she would have to go through. Then low and behold a story hits of just that. ” cops bust lemonade stand for NO PERMIT.” Care to comment Ben?
Last night KCRA reports on even more water flushed down the river “for the fishs”.
Where will the cities and towns the rely on water from Folsom get water when the lake goes dry?
The ECO city LIBS will have to live with their convictions and go thirsty with the rest.
As I stated, the cities are said to run out of water before the Summer is over.

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Paul Emery

11 June 2015

Bessee
There is no doubt that national trends on polling on medical recreational MJ is on the rise so there’s no point in debating that issue. As an articulate spokesperson to those opposed to such direction can you describe briefly exactly why use should be criminalized? Also since currently the law is unenforceable what additional law enforcement resources should be allocate3d towords enforcement, federal, state and local and how much that would cost.
Also, do you agree with Todd Juvinall that those convicted of selling to minors should be executed by firing squad.

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Paul Emery

11 June 2015

George
I take it you support the process by which there is a straight up or down vote on the TPP with no amendments.

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Paul Emery

11 June 2015

Todd
I get my information from a plethora of news sources too numerous to list. Where, other than Rush Limbaugh, do you get your news?

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Walt

11 June 2015

It’s time to give up the rec. dope Paul, growing weed takes too much water. Growing food is a little more important these days, and since smoking dope gives one the munchies, that’s more food getting chowed down.
LIBS need to get the priorities right.
As for “enforceable”,, the same can be said for speeding. How many more laws should just be taken off the books for that same excuse? Hell! look at all the crimes that have been dropped from felonies to misdemeanors, just to keep thugs and goons out of jail.
Crime is up, convictions are down.. yup,,, “hug a thug” is working great.

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George Rebane

11 June 2015

PaulE 1129am – Indeed I do support Congress’ ability to fully study, review, and debate the TPP (and any other TPA negotiated treated), and then render a UP/DOWN vote on the treaty. This process allows the negotiations to proceed without ongoing media and public quarterbacking, and makes it incumbent on the president to communicate with congressional leaders so as to assure that their concerns are best met before the treaty is finalized and released.

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Todd Juvinall

11 June 2015

Paul Emery 11:35 AM
So you have no sources. I thought so. You just make it up. The TPP is the latest of your “conspiracy theories” that you create. Thanks for confirming you have no sources.

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Todd Juvinall

11 June 2015

Paul Emery, Oh and I have not changed my mind that drug dealers selling to minors should be executed by firing squad in the public square.

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Patricia Smith

11 June 2015

Wikileaks has made the text of the TPP available for all to read. https://wikileaks.org/tpp-enviro/pressrelease.html.
Have at it. There is plenty for both sides to hate. Wouldn’t it be refreshing to debate what is in the treaty?

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Russ

11 June 2015

PSmith@12:20PM
Well maybe not:
404
We are sorry, the file you have requested could not be found.
Please wait few minutes and try again.

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Paul Emery

11 June 2015

Todd
And “drug dealers” includes marijuana peddlers right?

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Paul Emery

11 June 2015

Todd
I repeat
“I get my information from a plethora of news sources too numerous to list.”
Here’s a start Todd
Wikinews
Wikinews is perhaps one of the best places to find original and unbiased news stories.
AlterNet
AlterNet is one of my favorite online news sources.
The Real News
“NO GOVERNMENT, CORPORATE OR ADVERTISING $$$,” which stands as a marker of self-proclaimed nonpartisanship, political and otherwise.
They report on news from all around the world, offering stories ignored by most other major outlets.
Reuters
Reuters, an international news agency stationed in London dedicated to journalistic objectivity
The Independent
The Independent is a U.K. newspaper that reports on news from around the world.
PBS,
BBC
CSPAN
Fox News,
MSNBC
CNN
Add
Free Speech Radio News
Christian Science Monitor
The UK Guardian
New York Times
Sacramento Bee
San Francisco Chronicle
Oregonioan
The Union
Yuba Net
– See more at: http://blog.debate.org/2012/08/24/a-quest-for-truth-a-list-of-the-top-8-unbiased-news-sources/#sthash.tkmyBTbk.dpuf

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Walt

11 June 2015

What? FOX NEWS??? You forgot to delete that when you cut and pasted.
How many times have you bashed FOX?
Nice try Paul.

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Todd Juvinall

11 June 2015

Paul Emery 12:48 PM
Impressive list of sources. So which one is your source for the TPP?
Also, yes, death by firing squad for drug dealers who sell or give to minors.

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Todd Juvinall

11 June 2015

Patricia, your link is no good for the text of the “secret” trade deal. Got any more?

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Paul Emery

11 June 2015

Most of those listed. It is a continuous topic.

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Paul Emery

11 June 2015

Walt
I try to gather news from a variety of sources to gauge differences of slants. FOX is one of them.

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Todd Juvinall

11 June 2015

So which source provided you the TPP info Paul Emery. Oh, can’t answer that eh? Jeeze, fib much?

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Paul Emery

11 June 2015

RE George 12:07
You write: ” makes it incumbent on the president to communicate with congressional leaders so as to assure that their concerns are best met before the treaty is finalized and released.”
George, there can be no give and take on this if Senators and Congressional leaders don’t even read the bill which they haven’t. The way it stands there will be no Congr4eeional input on the details of the bill except their up or down vote.

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fish

11 June 2015

The way it stands there will be no Congr4eeional input on the details of the bill except their up or down vote.
Well that’s kind of input.

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Paul Emery

11 June 2015

Yes Fish but it no way implies that:
“……President to communicate with congressional leaders so as to assure that their concerns are best met before the treaty is finalized and released.”

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Todd Juvinall

11 June 2015

Paul Emery, you can’t or won’t answer, so it appears you are making it up.
Hey Paul Emery, are you a “income redistribution” proponent?

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Paul Emery

11 June 2015

I don’t know what you’re talking about Todd. what does “income redistribution” have to do with the topic at hand?

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Todd Juvinall

11 June 2015

Are you or are you not a supporter of income redistribution. Simple question.

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Paul Emery

11 June 2015

Not a simple question Todd. Of course I’m a supporter of income redistribution. So is George. Can, or are you able to you provide more details as to the means.

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fish

11 June 2015

Posted by: Paul Emery | 11 June 2015 at 02:27 PM
Well I guess we just have to pass it to find out what’s in it…..Paul Ryan doing his best Nancy Pelosi impersonation.

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Todd Juvinall

11 June 2015

OK Paul Emery. Thanks for fessing up. I don’t think I recall George being a proponent though. Can you direct me to his quote?

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Paul Emery

11 June 2015

Agreed Fish. Odd bedfellows on this one but perhaps not so odd. The big boys (or rather big persons) know where the money is.

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Todd Juvinall

11 June 2015

Paul Emery, it appears you are opposed to the TPP for what reasons again?

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George Rebane

11 June 2015

PaulE 134pm++ – Today there is no final TPP for anyone to read. According to Obama, the thing is still in negotiation; he wants the TPA to give him what he has already taken. But if Congress was not consulted during the formative phase of the TPP, then they will most likely vote it down, with or without the TPA. What is difficult to understand about how the president should proceed in such negotiations – it will pay to keep the congressional leadership briefed so that they can give timely consent and advice.

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Bill Tozer

11 June 2015

The Oregonian, Paul? Now, that newspaper is so bad you can’t even use it for toilet paper in a pinch. One usually prefers large poison oak leaves to the Oregonian when nature calls when one is out in nature. The Oregonian?? Oh Paul, I know you won’t lose any sleep over this, but your credibility level just went down two notches.

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Paul Emery

11 June 2015

Todd
RE:George redistribution of wealth:
Rebane writes
“This is the addended transcript of my regular KVMR commentary broadcast on 20 May 2015.]
Listeners of these commentaries may recall that I support redistribution of wealth. ”
http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2015/05/guaranteed-national-income-guaranteed.html

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fish

11 June 2015

Mass democracy…it’s a beautiful thing!
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-06-11/americans-sign-petition-pre-emptive-nuclear-strike-against-russia

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Walt

11 June 2015

Once again The Queen of the Dems. shows dementia is setting in.
http://dailycaller.com/2015/06/11/pelosi-on-drought-not-a-question-of-dams-or-not-we-need-more-rain/
Help her out Bill,, Get busy with a rain dance. ( oh.. wait,, that’s what you were up to last night.) Well do it again…
LIBS LOVE to talk about doing things, yet never really do.

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Paul Emery

11 June 2015

Walt
The local denomination of Druid Deists do regular rain dances at the Yuba. You are invited to attend. Animal skin clothing preferred.

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Todd Juvinall

11 June 2015

Paul Emery 4:07 PM
I think you don’t understand his statement very well. Here is further on in the post
“The problem with such a proposal is that we have redistributed wealth for over forty years, and it is clear that the way we have been doing it hasn’t worked.”
Try harder. Or maybe GeorgeR can come and tell me I am wrong.
Regardless, what are the things in the TPP you are opposed to? Apparently you can’t or don’t remember.

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Paul Emery

11 June 2015

Todd
It will be a waste of everyone’s time to go over that again. Why don’t you just go back and read my posts. It seems you have memory problems.

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Walt

11 June 2015

Obviously it’s not working Paul. Animal skins?,, Really? Your other chapter of LIB loons frown upon that. PETA will be giving you a call. You flubbed on that religion again.
ALL druid ceremonies are done butt naked. It’s the mephistopheles worshipers that don the animal skins. Do I need to teach you everything about who does what?
Besides. Seeing some old hippie chicks nude isn’t high on my list of things to see.
Maybe they were worth seeing back in the 70’s.. Now they would contribute to eye damage.

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Todd Juvinall

11 June 2015

Paul Emery 4:54 PM
No memory problems for me. I think you have veracity problems though. We ask questions of you and you generally don’t answer or you ask a question to our question. No wonder the “media” is so dissed by the public. You are a prime example of the tricks.
Walt, Paul is pulling your leg. He is no “druid” he is an atheist. LOL!

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Don Bessee

11 June 2015

Walt you brought back memories of the horny old lady cartoon that playboy used to have at the end of the mag! UGH!

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Walt

11 June 2015

Now come on Don,, Granny was cool! She was the original cougar.

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Paul Emery

11 June 2015

Walt
We are Neo Druids up here. Synthetic animal skins. We don’t do naked because of bugs and mosquitoes.
Don B
Crickets on my 11:14. Perhaps you missed it. I’ll re post it for your convenience.
Don
There is no doubt that national trends on polling on medical recreational MJ is on the rise so there’s no point in debating that issue.
As an articulate spokesperson to those opposed to such direction can you describe briefly exactly why use should be criminalized? Also since currently the law is unenforceable what additional law enforcement resources should be allocate3d towords enforcement, federal, state and local and how much that would cost.
Also, do you agree with Todd Juvinall that those convicted of selling to minors should be executed by firing squad.

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Walt

11 June 2015

“Wannabe” “Druids… Got it. Not to mention a little back peddling on the skins.
If you can’t handle nature (bugs and skeeters, and what your supposed to be “worshiping”)
stay out of it. Besides. the river is closed to the public at night, so your trespassing on state property. But keep digging that grave Paul. And Druids didn’t have weed to smoke, so no claiming religious rights of use.
Lefties are good at highjacking things. from the EPA to old world religions.

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Don Bessee

11 June 2015

Emery, In case you missed it CA has already decriminalized. The protection of the developing neurological systems of children is a societal imperative! Cute mixing mmj and recreational, typical. No one goes to jail for a bag of weed anymore. Current incarceration rates are negligible. The fact is that greater access always = greater youth rates to the point we are seeing first use at 12.5 yrs.! That’s 12 years before boys brains fully develop. Your rhetoric from the 80’s has no place in todays world, we know better now. That you old hippies are the highest use age bracket is telling. I would note that SAM has made the first practical proposal on how to advance real scientific research without the free for all you guys want. That the big tobacco guy who developed the joe camel ad campaign is now an industrial weed distributor just confirms our warnings about marketing to youth. It is reprehensible that you are marketing to kids using edibles that are packaged exactly like popular candy. Regular people are not OK with full legalization of commercial weed. What are you guys going to do if CO is running a repeal election at the same time we in CA are considering full legalization of commercial weed? People, especially parents and grandparents are your real problem, they are paying attention. For the uneducated voters our side will likely have to spend 20 mil. or so to educate them before election day. 🙂 Now when was the last time you won a vote in CA?

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George Rebane

11 June 2015

ToddJ 447pm – Todd, to restate my state of ignorance, I don’t know the proper way to redistribute wealth. All I know is that if we don’t do it effectively, then the have-nots and the can-nots are going to physically destroy this country. We will be presented with a Mad Max world of heavily defended enclaves of the haves in a sea of abject poverty and lawlessness where life is brutish, cruel, and short. Perhaps intelligent machines will come along to figure out how to redistribute wealth and we will be saved (for another fate). For sure, today’s politicians are not taking this problem seriously – their myopic vision sees only the return to the same ‘ol same ‘ol.
So yes, we haven’t correctly redistributed wealth in the past, but we must continue seeking ways to do it correctly in the near future. All correct solutions will have one common attribute – an economy that can generate shareable wealth in abundance.

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Todd Juvinall

11 June 2015

I think you lost me George. Our country has been in the redistribution mode sine the income tax in the last century. And as we have seen, the beast has grown to 21% of GDP not counting regulations on business lunch room walls. If you even think we must redistribute then in my view all is lost. That means we have bought into the liberal dogma. The history of our country has been “equal opportunity” and not “equal outcomes” which is income equality in the truest sense.
The issue is freedom and education in the capitalist system. But now we are seeing all that getting whittled down to “socialism” at best with the “income inequality” BS. I mean, what is the number of dollars a person or family should have? Who decides? Should the poor here get three TV’s and Two cars? It is a very fast slippery slope to the dissolution of a free America and I can’t buy into that. Besides, the argument of “income inequality” is a myth anyway but like all urban myths even the best and broghtest can be fooled.

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fish

11 June 2015

Not nearly as much outrage at this one…..
http://www.myfoxal.com/story/29300910/shoals-family-attacked-while-leaving-wilson-park
After all those poor lads might have scuffed their knuckles and totally drained the batteries in their taser.

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Walt

11 June 2015

Todd is right. It is the individual’s responsibility to go forth and “be successful”.
If your not “well off” it’s your own damned fault.
But thanks to Liberalism and placing roadblocks and hoops to jump through to get there sure has made it more difficult.
A kid can’t even open a lemonade stand on the family lawn without permits and inspections these days. Thank your anticapitalist LIB for that.

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Ben Emery

11 June 2015

The anti democratic sentiment on RR is astonishing. What is has done is provide looky loos a the proof of my the fab five and George being corporatists. WTO, IMF, World Bank, and all Free Trade Agreements are creating the dreaded
One World Government
A On World Government that is fascistic in natural where corporate/ business interests trump human interests. Secret tribunals/ courts, zero avenue of accountability by the world citizens, and no ability to redress grievances.
My one big regret in my life is missing the WTO protests in Seattle 1999. I was leaving in Hawaii and didn’t have the money or the ability to get to the protests.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFamvR9CpYw

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