Rebane's Ruminations
December 2014
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George Rebane

Reports from Sydney (here) are the latest addition to a new dimension of threats from the world of Islam.  We have seen in Canada, the UK, the US, and now Australia how self-radicalized Muslims are emerging from the commonly viewed ‘moderate Islamic communities’ to plan and commit acts of jihadic terror in their adopted countries.  These terrorists have no formal relationship to established jihadist organizations that are publicly sworn to the destruction of our civilization, and its replacement with a most severe form of global Islam.

This class of lone wolf Muslim terrorist is always the hardest to detect and stop, especially in liberal societies of the west where today there is present an almost insane imperative to deny history and current evidence.  The delivered public wisdom is that the largely silent Muslim communities, already established in such host countries, share our horror and condemnation of the growing litany of ongoing terror that Islamists have spread to multiple continents worldwide.  Unfortunately, that is not the case.

One of the leading and more constructive voices in the west who warns us about the real mindset of Islam is Dr Tawfik Hamid, himself a former jihadist.  He has written and spoken extensively in the west’s leading media outlets such the WSJ and the NYT.  Years ago Dr Hamid started warning us about Islam and the dangerous politicized use of ‘Islamophobia’ (e.g. here).  Besides his own experience with radicalized Islam and its broadly accepted geo-strategic objectives, Hamid has brought forth evidence from Islam itself citing numerous surveys of Muslim attitudes (e.g. from Pew Research) both in the west and from ‘the Arab street’.

Hamid, along with other tolerant Muslim intellectuals, continue to paint a realistic picture of Islam’s relationship with the west.  An accessible compendium of such commentaries that seeks to inform us is available from ‘A symposium: What is Moderate Islam?’

I bring these reports to your attention not only in connection with the newly emerging ‘Islamist threat vector’, but also to remind some readers who have been critical of RR’s interpretation of what has really been going on between Islam and the west during the recent decades.  We are closer than ever to identifying the real geo-strategic threat to the west from radicalizing Islam (see also Kissinger’s World Order) without which we have been flailing ineffectively in what we mistakenly call our “war against terror”.  I believe we can begin winning again only after we realize the true nature of the conflict in which we are engaged.

[30dec14 update]  And one of the west’s greatest statesmen, historians, and wartime leaders Sir Winston Churchill penned and delivered these words in an 1899 history book when he was already a decorated veteran and journalist.  His prophetic insights about Islam (then Mohammedanism) – "No stronger retrograde force exists in the world" – echo stronger than ever across the intervening century.  (H/T to correspondent)

How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy.  The effects are apparent in many countries, improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.

A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement, the next of its dignity and sanctity.  The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.  Individual Muslims may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it.

No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome.

(Churchill W., The River War (First Edition,Vol II, pgs 248-250), London)

[4jan15 update]  For more on what moderate Islamic leaders are saying about Islam's support of its radical factions, please see 'Scattershots – 4jan15'.

Posted in , ,

191 responses to “Islamophobia 2.0 (updated 4jan15)”

  1. Russ Steele Avatar

    What is the probability this group contains a terrorist or two? Selected by the UN? Right, that should work?
    The federal government is preparing for another “surge” in refugees and this time they won’t be coming illegally from Central America.
    The U.S. State Department announced this week that the first major contingent of Syrian refugees, 9,000 of them, have been hand-selected by the United Nations for resettlement into communities across the United States.
    The announcement came Tuesday on the State Department’s website.
    WND reported in September that Syrians would make up the next big wave of Muslim refugees coming to the U.S., as resettlement agencies were lobbying for the U.S. to accept at least 75,000 Syrian refugees over the next five years.

    Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2014/12/u-n-sending-thousands-of-muslims-to-america/#gEUgu7CwASvRXhc3.99

    Like

  2. Stu Avatar
    Stu

    Learned all I need to know about the followers of the moon god a long time ago, did some work in Iran shortly before the Shah flew himself in to exile and with refresher courses again in Dubai and Qatar (one time when o’l bent Billy was trying to get Monica out of the headlines, looking out of my Hotel on the Strait of Hormuz and seeing one of our Aircraft battle groups go by in full battle rattle – time to update the departure schedule!) and the final was riding the number 4 tram back to Damm Square (in Amsterdam) on the evening of 11 Sept, going through the “North African” shop section (about two blocks) that evening and seeing the celebrations, candy, pastries – every shop window was replaying the towers (and a good 6 hours or more after they fell).
    I have not seen any reason since to change my opinion.
    There is always the “lone wolf” contingent and they are true wild cards.
    My personal fear is some coordinated attacks on soft targets (a Beslan school – Nairobi Mall ???) – and this would be the time of year to get everyone’s attention

    Like

  3. fish Avatar
    fish

    Gee…..wonder what’s going on with the “Religion of Peace” this morning?
    Wonder….wonder….wonder…..?!

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  4. George Rebane Avatar

    re fish 718am – It appears that ever larger numbers of followers of the Religion of Peace are conducting nothing more than business as usual. The Taliban, supposedly some of the most devout Muslims in the world, in Pakistan attacked a school just for the purpose of killing and maiming children. And they were wildly successful in the achieving their objective, having killed over 120 and wounded uncounted others in today’s attack in Peshawar.
    http://www.wsj.com/articles/taliban-militants-attack-pakistan-school-1418716418?mod=WSJ_USHomePage_Additional_News
    The interesting peek into their culture is that the kids were specifically targeted for revenge killings because it was a military run school and many of the students had a parent in the Pakistani military.
    Meanwhile, here at home we will hear apologetics from the America Last crowd detailing how this Muslim-on-Muslim attack was really our fault – maybe even being able to pin it specifically on Bush2.

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  5. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    I was listening to the radio yesterday and the ABC News babe (teleprompter reader) stated that a “cleric” perped the Aussie murders. I almost spit out my coffee. So, when a Islamic nut does this they don’t report it as such. Hell, if it was a Christian they sure would. That is why I have no respect for the lamestream media. So transparently PC and biased.

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  6. Walt Avatar

    And on the home front,,,,
    “Since March 2013, more than 20 American citizens or legal residents have tried to join or provide support to terror groups in those two countries.
    At a time when the threat of lone-wolf Islamic State sympathizers once again has risen to the fore, the review shows that since early this year, federal law enforcement in the U.S. have been dealing with homegrown terror cases at a rate of one almost every other week. ”
    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/12/16/lure-isis-feds-catching-more-americans-trying-to-aid-terror-groups-in-iraq/
    Have to give Joe some real facts in the news,, since he doesn’t pay attention to the news. Yes, Joe,, you read it here first.

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  7. Walt Avatar

    The plot thickens…. Seems “we” built a pipeline in Afghanistan a while back.
    “They”,, want “us” to keep in up and running, yet won’t lift a finger where rag head terrorists are concerned. They want us out of there, yet demand we keep that gas line
    in good repair. ( It means big bucks to them.)
    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/12/16/us-built-pipeline-in-afghanistan-heading-towards-catastrophic-failure/
    I say let them fix their own damned pipe.

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  8. fish Avatar
    fish

    They want us out of there, yet demand we keep that gas line in good repair. ( It means big bucks to them.)
    Cognitive dissonance in the muslim world….the hell you say!?!?! 😉

    Like

  9. George Rebane Avatar

    Waking up to NPR’s Morning Edition, its report on the Sydney Muslim lone-wolf terrorist bent over backward not to use the words ‘Muslim’ and ‘Islam’. He was just described as a deranged cleric (of some unknown religion), and the word ‘Muslim’ came in only at the end when it was reported that a black flag with a Muslim message was held up to the store window. This guy was a longtime Muslim radical, known to the police, and most probably heeding the current ISIS call for lone-wolf Muslims to conduct acts of terror was never mentioned by NPR (one of lamestream’s prime outlets). A more straightforward report was in the 16dec14 WSJ here – http://www.wsj.com/articles/terror-in-sydney-1418688541

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  10. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    “God is Great!” Shouts the Taliban as they just slaughtered 141 school children. Didn’t the Fort Hood shooter shout the same thing when he committed his “workplace violence”?
    They say it was revenge for giving that girl the Nobel Peace Prize. There are no moderates over there and here, only secularists that have got in bed with the enemy and have turned their backs on Islam. God is great.
    Our leader speaks.
    http://snewsi.com/id/1449259498/Obama-omits-Taliban-from-condemnation

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  11. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    For every ignorant fool in the west beating the war drums there is a ignorant fool in Muslim nations doing the same thing, when this faction of two sides finally get their wish what happens? More War, Destruction, Hatred, Oppression, Intolerance, and Needless Death.
    So why should we take the ignorant fools seriously?

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  12. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    Bless your little heart Ben Emery. When the organized Muslims come to slaughter your kids, you get back to us. Maybe we will send the US Military to help save your sweet tookis.

    Like

  13. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    Can you focus for a few minutes, Ben? Nobody is ‘beating war drums’.
    Innocents are being slaughtered and the American left is complicit in trying to cover up the cause. What happened to your cause of the last few moments that you were boasting of? What happened to your Jesus thing? Like most left wing phonies, your passion is a mile wide and only the breadth of an atom deep.
    As soon as actual evil rears it’s head, you run like a beaten dog.

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  14. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    Kinda amazing that the “I love everyone” Ben Emery has not yet shed the tears we have for the innocents in Pakistan today. I thought he said we were all racists so why are we weeping for those little children?

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  15. Walt Avatar

    As I recall it was “for the children” lefties that dragged us into Somalia.
    Remember the bleeding heart commercials? Now when there really is a humanitarian need to thump on the “bad guys” The Lefties get all Lilly livered up. Talk is cheap.
    Where is that ” if it saves one child’s life” attitude now? The camel jockeys can kill all the innocent, Christian children they like. (it seems) And we are to nothing about it.
    Ben.. How many illegal “not” wars has “O” got us into? He has a good history of lighting the fuse and running. LIBS griped about civilian casualties when Bush was running the show, yet with the new “push button” war with drones, and air strikes,(but NO boots on the ground) and plenty of civilian deaths in the process, not a peep from the Left.
    Yet murdering thuggery is alive and well,,, and growing.

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  16. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Forget Ben, folks. Let us weep for the innocent school children. That was not the only attack on schools today in the Muslin World, just the one that raised the media’s eyebrows. Coordinated school attacks all over the place today, yesterday, the day before. I am surprised that “Poco Harem” got the media all upset a few months back, yet that was not even close to the worse things they do on a weekly basis.
    Hell, Mexico is just as bad. Pull all the kids off the school bus or public bus and make one of the adults on the bus run over the kids and women and teachers and parents and all passengers with their feet pointing up in front of the wheels. Then the unlucky driver gets to put the bus in reverse and run over them again. Next, the unfortunate driver is allowed to fight to the death with one selected gang member. If the driver fights and kills the gang member with his fists, then his life is spared…if he joins the gang. If he refuses, his family is found and executed. I bring this up solely because Mexican criminal gangs have nothing on ISIS or the Taliban as they line kids up and slit their throats in front of their parents….sometimes the kids are lined up and they have to watch their parents’ being beheaded or have their throats slit, being the kids’ last thing they ever see before their little heads are bashed in.
    That, my friends, is too common place over there to even mention. Guess the mainstream media finally had to look at the Elephant in the room for at least one news cycle. I spared you from describing what happens to the young girls.
    At least the Mexican gangs do their bloodlust to send a message to the government to back off. The Muslins kill each other because they like it and like it a whole bunch. All goes back to the Muslim leader has to be a descendant of The Prophet vs. the leader should be the best qualified. How much bloodshed and crazy insanity over one doctrinal difference? More than we care to know.
    Kind of hard to bomb them back to The Stone Age when they are already there. Crazy followers of a gutter religion. The fruit of the poison tree.

    Like

  17. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Hmmm. Isn’t time for some Jew bashing from the left on some asinine “moral equivalency” skewed broken thinker garbage?
    Todd has said liberalism is a mental disorder. Churchill would agree because liberals must forget human history, human nature, and the very laws of nature to embrace their feel good ideology. I don’t know if Liberalism is a mental disease or just a mental disorder, but once it takes hold, it spreads just like cancer. That is how it spreads. liberalism is both a mental disorder and a cancer.
    Isn’t it about time we hear from the Left about all the children we have slaughtered in the Arab World? Sure, Bush ordered 60 drone strikes and Obama has ordered 400 to date, but guess which one is the war criminal? Ok maybe it’s the ISIS/Taliban/Muslim Brotherhood/ Al Quada leaders who are War Criminals. . Nah, it’s white America’s fault.

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  18. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    More from the Religion of Peace. Can’t say the four were not given the chance to convert. The Peaceful Muslims followed the exact instructions given by their Holy Adulterer Prophet. Oppps, I could get killed for that and Dr. Rebane as well. Sorry good Doc, guess we all are going to die sometime.. It was nice while it lasted. Who says there are no absolutes? Chao..
    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/iraq-four-youths-beheaded-by-isis-refusing-renounce-christian-faith-1479339

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  19. Paul Emery Avatar

    Todd
    Care to compare the number of American children killed by Islamic terrorists in American to the number of children killed by American military on Islamic soil?

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  20. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Paul,
    Good Point, also state vs. separate organization attacks are huge distinction as well.
    Check out this interactive graph of drone warfare program in a nation that is so called friend of the US in the “war on terror”. A more appropriate name would be “war of terror” perpetuated by the US Government. This done in all of our names.
    Here is a quote from a WWII bombardier about our “war on terror”.
    “How can you have a war on terrorism when war itself is terrorism?”
    -Howard Zinn
    Pakistan only 2004-2013, notice when our current our most recent war criminal Executive Branch took office the dramatic increase in drone bombings. You would think all of these war hawks at RR would praise Obama for his killing nature but this is purely a pro Republican Party propaganda blog, so I don’t expect much out of it.
    http://drones.pitchinteractive.com/
    Just imagine what these numbers look like in countries we claim to be “at war” with despite no debate in congress approving war has taken place?

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  21. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    Sure Paul Emery, compare all you want.

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  22. Walt Avatar

    Good Lord… Islamic terrorists SEEK OUT children to kill, while “we” go to great strides to avoid theirs. They put GUNS in the hands of their children to shoot at “us”. If that kid is killed on the battle field, the gun is taken and the child is left behind to be claimes as an innocent “victim”. The same goes for their women. Maybe Paul should do some looking.
    There are pictures and videos of those “innocent” children holding up the severed heads
    of “their” victims. Hell! Dollars to donuts, Pappy raghead has more than likely has let Jr.
    put one in the back of some poor soul’s head,, the say ” Ala is now proud of you.”…

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  23. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Walt,
    How does a bomb differentiate between a bad guy vs. innocent civilian? It doesn’t so in essence and even more so we are terrorizing Muslim nations with our undeclared “war on terror”. If you couple that with the US federal government knowing for more than a decade of the policy and practice of torture without any accountability towards those who ordered those policies and practices it sends the message to the world that the US is above the law and can do whatever it wants with impunity. This is the what you and your ilk has turned the United States of America into with your fear and love affair with violence. The United States of America used to be the beacon of hope for Justice and Equality and today the only thing it seems to sell is exploitative predatory capitalism, fear, death and destruction.

    Like

  24. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    The Emery boys boys are back with their usual mental filth. A male Euro did something very bad once – so now we don’t care when a non-male non Euro wants to slaughter children. Ben, of course, gets this sickness from his Jesus.
    Then he holds up a self-described terrorist as some one we should heed.
    This is ‘situational ethics’ or relativism folks. In full glory. You and I might witness the brutal slaughter of innocent children and instantly decry the horror and try to stop it. The Emorys wait to see the skin color of the victims and the perps and wait to assess the perps ‘life story’ before they decide if this is something we should be upset about. And if they are upset about it for any reason, they will always blame Bush. And they hide from the same evil every day behind the American armed forces and police they spit on.
    Priceless.

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  25. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    “the only thing it seems to sell is exploitative predatory capitalism, fear, death and destruction.”
    And you live voluntarily live here and support it with your taxes, Ben.
    Have you ever noticed that most of the rest of the world would love to live here?
    We are not perfect, but the Tea Party is trying to stop the bad part. Will you join the effort or just throw rocks?

    Like

  26. Walt Avatar

    Well Ben,, it all depends on just who’s hands that bomb is in. I guess you didn’t comprehend the part where “they” (raghead terrorists) do the damnedest to kill anyone who doesn’t agree with them. “WE” on the other hand, only go after those who are out to kill us, or innocents. Funny how you bypassed the entire premise of my post.
    Wow… “torture”. Funny (again) how you have yet to define it since my last attempt to drag it out of you. BTW.. Contrary to LIB opinion and the capital hill circus sideshow,, it DOES work, and was only used in EXTREME circumstances. So do tell. How would YOU get the needed info out of them? Ask nicely? A little sit down dinner by candle light? Apologize profusely?
    Well “O” even stated “the war is over”… Well that worked out SO well… Didn’t it?
    Good luck getting “them” to play by the rules.
    Tell ya’ what.. I’m sure we could scrape up the air fair for you to try it your way.
    But I’m more than sure we would only get your head back in a hat box.
    You forget what they REALLY.. Our way of life, our freedoms etc. Not to mention the equality we give women. How dare they even show their faces.
    Now answer my first post.

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  27. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Walt,
    How often did we hear of suicide bombers in Iraq before we invaded/ occupied? Zero, it hadn’t happened before. To make it worse most of the suicide bombers are coming from other nations to fight against the occupying powers. http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2007/08/08/18791/studies-suicide-bombers-in-iraq.html
    Before our invasions/ occupations of these Muslim nations how often did we hear about radical Islam cutting off foreigners heads in their countries? Other than the one reporter in 2002 by al qaeda it wasn’t done.
    Self fulfilling prophecy is what you are relating to, we caused these problems with our pre emptive or aggressor policies in the region. What don’t you get about that or are other nations just supposed to sit back and take what ever the US and Western Powers say and do?
    This does not mean I condone or justify the violence from those opposing US/ Western force. It means ramping up the violence isn’t the solution it will only create more violence and hatred.

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  28. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Scott,
    Two points.
    1) What people think about America from afar dramatically differs from what they think once they get here and have to live within the system
    2) Many of those who desperately want or need to get out of their own countries are fleeing the policies I mentioned above. Predator capitalism promoted by developed nation corporations through GATT, WTO, World Bank, IMF, and all the other Free Trade agreements that creates legal wage slavery and a general exploitation of the workers and environment. Then we get into the covert CIA/ military actions done through out the world creating anti democratic governments that prop up brutal regimes and in return reward western interests with access to resources for US/ Western based companies to come in and extract for a fraction of what the resource is worth. Keeping those in power very wealthy while they keep their populations suppressed.
    Here is an incomplete list of US interventions since 1890 to present
    http://academic.evergreen.edu/g/grossmaz/interventions.html

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  29. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    I think Ben Emery needs a few history lessons about these killers and their “religion of peace”. But I doubt even that will help.

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  30. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Todd,
    What needs to happen is you need to stop thinking of others as “it” and start thinking of them as “human beings” that we are connected.
    For every atrocity you can mistakenly name that was done in name of Islam, I could show you multiple examples done by and in the name of Christianity. Why I say mistakenly is because those in power use religion to gain foot soldiers for their quest of more power.
    God doesn’t care about religions or wars. God just, is. God is something we cannot comprehend with our minds or bodies God is an energy that moves through all things though out the universes. God just, is.
    Islam learned from Christianity, which learned from Judaism to be violent. The problem is each one believes that their version of monotheism is the correct version. They are all wrong and correct at the same time. Correct in the parts of the religion that teaches the universal truths and all wrong in the parts of the religion claiming there version or myths are the only correct ones.

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  31. Walt Avatar

    Really Ben? Before the murder vests, it was car bombs.. Plenty of them. It was backpacks on buses. They are crazy lunatics. But they are not stupid. As soon as we defeat one problem, they dream up another. We started checking all the men for body bombs. Then they started putting them on women and children. Forget we didn’t (don’t) dare insult them for touching their women?
    Again.. you dodge my question. ” What if it was you?” Funny,, you just won’t go there.
    Now stop with the ” But look over there!”

    Like

  32. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    I think the difference is we in America and Canada especially, have moved past the things you condemn Ben Emery. Australia and New Zealand and most Western European nations as well. The head chopping society is still living in the 6th century. But, you are a hopeless case as you have shown us all. You try to always get a moral equivalency with your own country and the head loppers. So, we just have to agree to disagree. I am a hopeless supporter of my country and you are something else. Good luck.

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  33. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    “The United States of America used to be the beacon of hope for Justice and Equality”
    OK Ben – I’ll bite. When was this?
    When we were engaged in terrorism against King George?
    When we were engaged in terrorism against the AmerIndians?
    When we supported the slave trade of Africans?
    When we were engaged in terrorism against the slave traders?
    When we were …
    Get the picture?
    Go ahead and post Ben – I’m waiting.
    And before you post, you might consider the enormous sacrifice and financial support we engage in world wide. So – when was this time you speak of?

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  34. Walt Avatar

    If our resident Lefties haven’t heard the news,, the “terrorists” scored another victory.
    Sony has pulled their newest movie due to threats.. Happy?
    But it was fine and dandy when a movie was made about the assassination of Bush.
    Nope,, no complaints from the Lefty gaggle then. ( or the terrorists)
    Yup,, now they feel more empowered. What will be the next thing they will demand be stopped? ” OR ELSE”

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  35. George Rebane Avatar

    It is interesting again to point out the liberal notion of history when we read BenE’s 330pm – “Islam learned from Christianity, which learned from Judaism to be violent.” It seems that not all know that Islam was already spreading by the sword when Christianity was still cowering before the Visigoths.

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  36. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    Gosh, Hey! Was it this terrible country that saved the world from the bad boys of the 1930-40’s? Oops, can’t be. Or lately, GW Bush and the anti AIDs campaign? Oops, Shh! Or the Philippines and Cuba from Spain in 1898? Crap, the damn Americans are busting my chops. The list must be really long. Drats!

    Like

  37. Walt Avatar

    Hay Ben.. Funny how we defeated Mexico, yet didn’t keep it. We gave it back.. The same goes for most of Europe when we took it back from Germany. How come we didn’t keep Germany By the rules of the day, we had every right to. The same goes for Japan. How come our flag isn’t flying over Tokyo today? Hell! We didn’t even keep Iraq and all that OIL!!

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  38. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    Nor Cuba nor the Philippines nor….. Give it up, China and Russia are bullying and expanding their empires and the left has no clue. Instead America is whipped for excesses of 150 years ago long rectified. Ben is still trying to remember that magic time when America was perfect. We’re waiting, Ben.

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  39. Walt Avatar

    A nice photo for Joe and Ben to gander at. This may soon be one of those “innocent victims”
    I mentioned before.
    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2014/12/17/EU-Removes-Hamas-from-Terror-List-Due-to-Paperwork
    A terrorist in training. Dear ol’ Dad might strap a bomb on the kid,, yet not himself.
    He can always make another one.

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  40. Paul Emery Avatar

    Well Todd since you are not interested in researching the number of children deaths in the Middle East perhaps we can start here. This is from the Conservative Cato Institute
    http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/death-misery-debt-iraqs-unintended-conquest-america
    “Iraqis paid a much higher price. The conflict turned their country into a battlefield subsequently ravaged by looting and civil war. Estimates of the civilian dead ranged upwards to more than a million. The latter, based on respected survey methods, nevertheless has been criticized as excessive. But even the low-end figures are sobering. The Iraq Body Count, which relies on published death accounts, figures between 130,000 and 144,000 killed. However, the website’s exactitude, with numbers “derived from over 31,500 deadly incidents analyzed for information including time and location, perpetrators and weapons used,” undercounts the total. The Watson Institute warned that this estimate “is low, perhaps very low.” Both the Institute and IBC suggest doubling the figures for a more accurate civilian death toll.”
    They also write in the article
    “This time ten years ago the grand Iraqi cakewalk had begun. American military forces were racing toward victory. The world was going to be transformed.
    But not in the way President George W. Bush and his top officials imagined. Invading Iraq turned out to be one of Washington’s greatest strategic mistakes.
    U.S. policy in the Middle East long has been marked by myopic, counter-productive meddling. Six decades ago the U.S. and British governments organized a coup ousting Iran’s democratically elected Prime Minister Mohammad Mosaddegh. Left in charge was Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi.
    The Shah was a corrupt dictator who for 26 years suppressed the democratic opposition and brutalized political opponents. Washington was happy, but the Iranian people felt otherwise, forcing him to flee in 1979.”
    How many children died as a result of our invasions into the Middle East? Take a guess.

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  41. Paul Emery Avatar

    Obsma has continued our unconstitutional and immoral violation of the soverinty of Middle Eastern nations with his indiscriminate use of drones on civilian populations;
    “The U.S. drone program under President Barack Obama reached its fifth anniversary on Thursday having tallied up an estimated death toll of at least 2,400 people.
    As the Bureau of Investigative Journalism, a U.K.-based non-profit, details on its website, five years ago the CIA conducted the first drone strikes of the Obama presidency. Although there were reports of suspected “militants” killed, at least 14 civilians also died that day.”
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/23/obama-drone-program-anniversary_n_4654825.html

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  42. Walt Avatar

    When it comes to deaths “over there” how many are by the hand of “their own people”?
    Lefties want to blame “us” for every damned one. You really want to rely on “their” reported numbers? LOL! Just how can you tell? non of the combatants wear uniforms.
    Even women and children shoot at our troops. Yet those are counted as innocent civilians.
    I guess you can call this “O”‘s illegal war. LIBS have had their way with “no boots on the ground”. No intel,, no capturing to gain intel. GOD forbid we do. Just raising one voice to a captured terrorist is considered torture.
    LIBS don’t want to win wars. They go out of they way to lose them. That game plan goes all the way back the Vietnam. In the Middle East conflicts LIBS kept changing the rules of engagement. HELL!! our troops couldn’t even shoot a bomb planter without calling a JAG lawyer first.

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  43. Paul Emery Avatar

    Walt
    As a “Conservative” you should pay attention to what the Cato institute states about the war in Iraq. They conclude their article by saying
    “Yet even now many of the Iraq War’s architects are clamoring for more wars.
    America needs peace. War should be a true last resort, not just another policy option for frustrated social engineers and impatient internationalists. Wars are sometimes tragically necessary. But not in Iraq.
    After the Spanish-American War, William Graham Sumner wrote an essay with the ironic title: “The Conquest of the United States by Spain.” So too can we speak of Iraq’s conquest of America. The result has been death, misery, and debt. Individual liberty and limited government have been sacrificed. America’s reputation has been sullied.”

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  44. fish Avatar
    fish

    After the Spanish-American War, William Graham Sumner wrote an essay with the ironic title: “The Conquest of the United States by Spain”.
    Another first rate reference! You’re on a roll this week Paul!

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  45. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    From Paul – “America needs peace.”
    Yeah and folks in a hot place want ice water. It turns out that America, like all other entities in the world don’t always get what they want. No one here wants war. I don’t want to have to lock my front door. But it turns out that others get a vote on what happens and they vote differently than you and I.
    They best way to not have wars is to be armed to the teeth and when you do have a war, totally obliterate the enemy or at least crush all of the elements of opposition. Our enemies know we are patsies and will fight only in a no-win kind of way and will give up after a while. This invites war forever for us. We’ve been doing this since the “Korean Conflict”. Not sure how we undo all of our recent history. Getting untangled from all of the ‘friends’ we have over seas is going to be difficult. Having a disfunctional economy doesn’t help at all. Stopping the folks that fund a lot of this trouble would be good, but it turns out a lot of them are supposedly on our side. It’s a mess.
    But the worst thing of all is the air head nonsense of those that think we should disarm and give up. You will have peace. The peace of the grave.

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  46. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    Well said Scott. The people that give credence to the enemy are what I call the “Quislings” of America. They never give the same vitriol to those that kill and murder us or their own people. As if they are trying to signal them that they are ready to serve them. It The planet has never seen as food a country as America with a heart as large for helping others. Unfortunately we still must defend ourselves from EVIL ,en and that gives the Paul and Ben Emery’s their opening for criticism.

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  47. Walt Avatar

    OK Paul,,, ” No war”… Now go sell that to those that want us dead.
    There are street thugs that will attack you for what’s in your wallet, or want to kill you for sport, yet “you” don’t want confrontation. Think you will win that with words and passiveism?

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  48. Walt Avatar

    Paul. Think Ukraine wanted war? Power hungry Putin has other ideas.
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/putin-predicts-economy-recover-in-two-years/2014/12/18/6b81bb70-8689-11e4-9534-f79a23c40e6c_story.html?wprss=rss_homepage
    Where are you peacenicks on that? WE promised to protect Ukraine from Russia in exchange for them getting rid of their nukes. Who got the raw deal?

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  49. Walt Avatar

    OK Lefties,, a little more from those you make excuses for.
    http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2014/12/17/isis-slaughters-150-females-in-iraq-for-refusing-to-marry-have-sex-with-militants/
    Where are those “human rights” Leftists now?

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  50. George Rebane Avatar

    In the 18dec14 WSJ Yaroslav Trofimov reports that Islamic jihadist organizations are upping their brutality and barbarity (e.g. Peshawar school attack) for the simple reason that it pays. As demonstrated by the Islamic State, it turns out that such organizations derive an increase in recruits and more contributions from various Islamic organizations including the grass roots the more they can show that they are ruthless against their enemies. And all these benefits arise spontaneously out of the so-claimed ‘moderate’ Muslim masses.
    http://www.wsj.com/articles/taliban-attack-reflects-barbarity-competition-among-jihadists-1418841416?KEYWORDS=Trofimov

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