Sandbox – 15jun14

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Sandbox – 15jun14

14 June 2014

[Time for a fresh sandbox. The inaugural sandbox appears to have been a success. My own special interest for this one is to include a discussion of the Bergdahl case, specifically what impact readers believe it will have on future foreign policy in the mideast. And fold into that discussion the impact of ISIS' gains in Iraq and its demands on how should the US react – specifically, should we abandon Iraq to devolve into it pre-churchillian ethnic regions of Shiite, Sunni, and Kurdish control that may give rise to new nation-states or absorption by Iraq's current neighbors. Or whatever else comes to mind or piques interest. gjr]

Posted in Comment Sandbox

83 responses to “Sandbox – 15jun14”

Brad Croul

17 June 2014

Joe, Mr. Rebane does a good job of getting his points, however biased, across in a civil manner. However, being somewhat fastidious, I will probably refrain from crapping in this sandbox until some of the turds are cleaned out. Like you said, it is always the same old crap in this box…not that it is any different on any other site, left or right, that is full of partisan rhetoric.

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Brad Croul

17 June 2014

Breaking news,
http://news.yahoo.com/u-s–captures-suspected-ringleader-of-benghazi-attack-160435076.html

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Todd Juvinall

17 June 2014

JOEk, your response is totally absurd. Do you not read the news? We rebuilt the country and other than some terrorist attacks over the last few years the country went into a calming. So, please, next time you make a comment make sure you don’t embarrass yourself with hyperbole.

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Joe Koyote

17 June 2014

Todd, we didn’t rebuild crap. It is still a total mess. What happened was Bechtel, Halliburton, Blackwater, and numerous other defense contractors took billions in tax dollars and did next to nothing in Iraq. Unfinished infrastructure is everywhere. Only 36% of planned drinking water projects have been completed and only 70% of electrical projects, just to name two, along with $8B in fraud.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investment_in_post-invasion_Iraq

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Walt

17 June 2014

“We blew the country to pieces and killed tens of thousands of civilians in the process” Seems every civilian death is our fault in Joe’s eye. Nevermind we went out of our way and even let our own get killed, just by chance a civilian might be in harms way. Nevermind the enemy hid behind women and children, and when they were no longer needed, killed those civilians themselves.( knowing full well people like Joe would point the finger at American troops… and Joe took the bait.)
You might want to brush up on the rules of engagement Joe,, then and now.
Joe may think that only those in military uniform are “approved” targets. News flash Joe,, They didn’t and don’t wear uniforms. Ever see their everyday attire? It real easy to hide automatic weapons under all that linen.
You think the terrorists only use adults over the age of 18 like the “civilized” counties? Think again JR… They have no problems putting a hun in the hands of a 10 year old. That 10 year old will kill you just as dead. But you want to blame our own for that kid’s death.
It’s people just like YOU that need to be enlisted, if for anything else just to make sure you get the facts right.
Now turn off MSNBC, try a different web page other than Mother Jones and Moveon.
Funny.. You still haven’t turned in your homework on all that “free oil” Bush supposedly got. Come on JR.,, get with the program,, and start “giving a crap”.

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Todd Juvinall

17 June 2014

No oeK, we rebuilt. You are mis-informed.

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Walt

17 June 2014

JoKe has dwindled to troll status… Pure BS mixed with a high volume of horse sh**…

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Walt

17 June 2014

Sorry!!!! I was,,, WRONG!!!! Joe started spewing an hour earlier than my prediction.
What got you up Early Joe? Just had to try and prove me wrong? Or did you just get lucky?

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Gregory

17 June 2014

JoKe, don’t skip this section:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investment_in_post-invasion_Iraq#Attacks_on_construction_activities
That’s what the Sunni “bitter clingers” were doing post Saddam, before the declaration of Victory during the 2012 US Presidential Campaign, and the “ISIS” crowd have been among those destroying infrastructure all along.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_State_in_Iraq_and_Syria#Activities
BTW Joe, please do return to the education thread, we have unfinished business there.

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fish

17 June 2014

“JoeK, tell us the parts of Iraq that were devastated please. ”
JoKe….Todd, I believe, is employing the patented Paul Emery debate technique of asking a series of questions for which there really is no correct or non-self incriminatory answer…..”Do you still beat your wife?” …that sort of thing. This in order to allow ones debate opponent the opportunity to hang himself when you really don’t know how to do it yourself. A frequent condition for the goalpost moving, strawman slaying Mr. Emery.
I seem to remember an example a while back regarding l’affaire Trayvon Martin with him trying to twist it into his ideological opponents somehow not wanting women in Saudi Arabia to have the right to drive. I’m surprised you didn’t pick up on it.
If you want consistency in argumentation perhaps you should try it yourself sometime. Enjoy your beauty sleep.

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Walt

17 June 2014

Time to leave Joe in the corner sitting on the stool, with the dunce cap glued on tight. Time for the adults in the room to return to important issues… Like this..
http://washingtonexaminer.com/house-budget-punishes-irs-with-15-cut-halts-obamacare-enforcement/article/2549830/comments
Seems those with the purse strings have finally grew a pair. This was long overdue.
BTW.. ONE Benghazi attacker has been caught. Now just waiting for “O” and Co.’s “mission accomplished” happy dance and victory lap.
We can bring ALL the troops home now. The war is over… Right Joe? ( you might want to think about that before replying.)

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Bill Tozer

17 June 2014

Mr. Walt. Hold the presses and wait just one cotton pickin’ minute. Yes, one Benghazi peace lubber has been caught and is being flown straight to the US Mainland where he will have his day in a civilian court. Leap frogged over Gitmo. Why hold back popping the champagne corks? Simply because Eric Holder’s sense of justice is not justice per any recognizable definition I have read.

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Gregory

17 June 2014

George, your past reaction to reports of H-1B visa shenanigans is similar to what you are doing now… ‘I didn’t see the fraud in the past and I don’t want to recognize it now’.
Here’s an interesting piece by Silicon Valley gossip columnist Robert X. Cringely…
http://www.cringely.com/2013/07/18/so-thats-how-h-1b-visa-fraud-is-done/
And another piece on the so-called STEM shortage…”The Myth of the Science and Engineering Shortage:
American students need to improve in math and science—but not because there’s a surplus of jobs in those fields”
“All have concluded that U.S. higher education produces far more science and engineering graduates annually than there are S&E job openings—the only disagreement is whether it is 100 percent or 200 percent more. Were there to be a genuine shortage at present, there would be evidence of employers raising wage offers to attract the scientists and engineers they want. But the evidence points in the other direction: Most studies report that real wages in many—but not all—science and engineering occupations have been flat or slow-growing, and unemployment as high or higher than in many comparably-skilled occupations.”
http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2014/03/the-myth-of-the-science-and-engineering-shortage/284359/

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George Rebane

17 June 2014

Gregory 101pm – A most interesting accusation; do you have any evidence that American workers “in the (undefined) past” were told and paid to train their H1-B replacements? If this has been an ongoing practice, why is it news now? And pray how do you conclude that “I don’t want to recognize (H1-B fraud) now.” You seem to be acquiring some of the liberals’ habits on these pages when creating and attributing such myths.
Re the STEM shortage – professional societies such as IEEE and ACM (both of which I am a member) have for some time been denying the “genuine shortage” of STEM workers that flies in the face of what tech company CEOs and the Dept of Commerce are reporting. The issue is better understood when we consider the fluid environments in which global markets and skilled labor operate. The shoreline of human knowledge has become extremely ‘fractalized’ in which an enormous amount of specialized knowledge is required in a very limited area. Companies are narrowing their focus when looking for someone who will appropriately return their anticipated investment in the employee. Such narrower foci limit the number of available and accessible STEM candidates. In such arguments citing aggregate numbers of STEM graduates will not serve.

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Gregory

17 June 2014

George, I didn’t make that specific “accusation” (easy with the strawmen, pardner) but it isn’t hard to find credible stories of it in the past, if you’re actually looking for them. Here’s a story from 2008:
“Still, you shouldn’t have to dig your own grave by bringing in someone on an H-1B and training them to do your job.”
http://www.eweek.com/c/a/IT-Management/Pfizer-Accused-of-Using-US-Workers-to-Train-Foreign-Replacements/

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George Rebane

17 June 2014

Gregory 142pm – I, like many others, consider any unsubstantiated attribution, especially as an implicit pejorative, to be an ‘accusation’ when offered in the public square.
Re the cited story – Pfizer sought to replace contractors it had hired with apparently cheaper contractors. The connection between temporary help and permanent staff should not be overlooked in this discussion. Still waiting for a citation that practices such as recently reported have been commonplace for years. And still would like to know what made the recent occurrence newsworthy?
But in the larger sense, I do recognize the weakness of my own sentiment about the preference for American workers over imports (or exported jobs). Once you start promoting even a little protectionism, you put a tear into the defense of free markets, whether they be in jobs or goods (which require jobs to make and provide). Where do you draw that line in the sand, and what is the reasonable basis for saying this far and no further? I’m not denigrating subjectivity here, only pointing out its role in such decisions. Maybe the final argument really is Decatur’s ‘My country, right or wrong.’

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Walt

17 June 2014

OK Gents,, there are more plentiful fish to fry. The educated “immigrants” are the least of our worries at this point. The new flood of deadbeats has hit,
and “O” and Co. are shipping them to every state in the union, and dumping them for “us” to deal with. Like I said last week. “coming to a bus top near you”.
Seems a few “LIB” towns got their first shipments, and even the LIBS are not one bit happy about it. ( So some LIBS got the first taste of what they preached…. GREAT!)
Any empty, good sized building may be the next warehouse for future Dem. constituents.
OHH… Before I forget,, at least one DEM. is now calling for illegals “right to vote” in “local” elections… You know,, since votes will or may affect them..
Nice timing. Don’t ya’ think?
How long before “O” and Co. stops any “aid” for these “refugees” and puts the burden of their care on the communities they were dumped in? That IS the Progressive way.
Like I said. It’s not the H1-B people that is the immediate problem. Joe doesn’t want to work anyway.

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Gregory

17 June 2014

” Still waiting for a citation that practices such as recently reported have been commonplace for years.”
Still waiting here for an inkling of where that particular practice being “commonplace” was claimed. It was not from me.

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George Rebane

17 June 2014

Gregory 442pm – Since your 602pm stated “You have been led to evidence of H-1B hi-jinks in the past, I am at a loss that you are still surprised by such reports.” I mistakenly assumed that your ‘loss’ was due to my missing commonly known reports of such practices of which I have yet to see one. Silly me.

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Gregory

17 June 2014

George, I am at a loss as to why you would read a singular “this particular hi-jink” when I wrote of “H-1B hi-jinks”, a plural.
I hope you remember the fake advertisements I pointed towards some time ago, not to mention the seminar I linked to where businesses were taught how to place fake advertisements designed not to find a qualified and legal candidate but to prove to the Labor Dept’s low standards that none exist.
Some absolute truths:
1) H-1B visas have displaced American workers from the very beginning;
2) There has been fraud from the very beginning;
3) You can’t increase supply of a good or service without decreasing its relative price in the market;
4) There is no evidence of a shortage of “STEM” workers, just big company management desperate to get cheaper labor. I don’t blame them for trying and I’d be happy to have open borders, if everyone gets to compete with 3rd world labor the same as “STEM” workers. Let’s make it easier for doctors, lawyers, teachers, construction workers, plumbers, you name it, to immigrate and work here. Just show evidence you are not a criminal and you’re in.
Hard to do with a welfare state, but I’m good with getting rid of that, too.

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Scott Obermuller

17 June 2014

“why do I have to give a crap about every story that comes across the wire, you don’t. You righties pick and choose what facts to ignore and not ignore, like the devastation of Iraq,….”
Never said you have to care about every story that comes across the wire, Joe. Calm down and try to pay attention.
I care about every story I read if it involves the actions of our govt.
We built far more infrastructure in Iraq than we destroyed. That was in our interest as Bush intended to build up the country as a way of having it be stable and peaceable – at least that was the plan. I’m sure there was corruption and waste. It did involve govts, no? But that doesn’t have any bearing on how much or how little infrastructure we destroyed. The terrorists wanted the opposite and tried to blow up every power plant, bridge and oil production facility they could. We caused far more civilian deaths and infrastructure damage in Japan, Germany and Italy in WWII. And in far less time.
Anyway – my question stands, Joe. If you don’t know anything about the govt lying about Lerner’s emails being ‘lost’, how can you make an intelligent decision about whether or not to care about it?
And Joe’s take on Benghazi is false on the face of it. You brought it up, Joe. I didn’t.
You keep coming back here because we deal in reality and facts.
It’s a free service.
Look – Joe, please. Try to calm down and put your prejudices aside.
Lerner’s emails could not not possibly have been lost because her hard drive went south. I worked in IT for 20 years in govt and it just could absolutely not happen. No freakin’ way.
For Joe and all you Obama suck ups out there – Rose Mary Woods did not ‘accidentily’ erase

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Scott Obermuller

17 June 2014

Sorry – somehow hit the post button.
Nixon had the tapes erased and Obama had the emails erased.
It’s that simple – deal with it.
Or did you feel poor Tricky Dick got a raw deal?

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Russ Steele

17 June 2014

JoeK Now six more people are involved in the Tea Party mess at the IRS had their emails just vanish. Do you think that was a accident, or was it a deliberate active by Obama? He is desperate to break the connection between the IRS and the White House. It is becoming clear that someone in the White House was running this operation to hobble the Tea Party and other conservative organizations. To find the evidence could be an impeachable offense. You better hope that no one spills their guts.

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Bill Tozer

17 June 2014

But Nixon was a crook and Obama means well, so makes it ok.
Did you hear that Hillary made a splash on her book tour. Being from a suburb of Chicago you would think she would know that “Senator Abraham Lincoln defeated” so and so…..was never ever a US Senator, just a one term Congressmen. Gee, what difference does that make anyway?. And some news outlet paid Chelsea $600,000.00 for a 20 minute interview. How much is that per minute? Boy, I am in the wrong line of business.

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Walt

18 June 2014

Where is Joe when we need him? This breaking news is right up his,,,, uh,, alley.
http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2014/06/17/state-health-department-a-no-show-at-yuba-county-mobile-home-park-with-flammable-water/
BURNING WATER!! And right down the road!!! Fracking Joe?? How bout you Ben?
It may be well worth one’s while to buy the land that water well is drilled in.
That burning water is the tell tail sign of riches below.

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Russ Steele

18 June 2014

Jeffie is concerned there was a bank robbery in his neighborhood and police are so understaffed they could not be parked at the service station next to the bank, preventing the robbery. Worse, yet the robbery may have walked through his neighborhood. Details on his blog.

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Walt

18 June 2014

Russ. I have visited that place before. Jeffie’s place… I felt the need to take a long shower soon thereafter..
I will take your word for it.
As I see it, that’s the FED’S turf. We all know how Eric Holder feels when the local cops crap all over his lawn. Remember his stance on immigration in AZ. and TX.? That’s THEIR job. How dare the local cops arrest ANY illegal.
Bank robbery is the Federal issue. I wonder how long it took them to show up?

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RL Crabb

18 June 2014

I can remember a time (and not that long ago) when the coppers got in trouble for hanging out at the gas station. JP seems to think removing alcohol will solve the problem. No, they just need more donuts.
Amazing how he has finally noticed that we have crime in Nevada City/County, now that it’s lurking in his private domain.

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Bill Tozer

19 June 2014

Mr. Crabb, thank you for the information. I, like Walt, never ever visit little Jeffie’s sight. Personally, don’t care a lick what another blog is doing, but thanks for sharing. Besides, we have Fish and the mysterious unlucky designated reader.
Remove alcohol? Well, guess that means less people pissing in front of his house. Had a big, big, big wig show up a couple of months ago. He insisted on hanging out with me for a day and buying me lunch (could not shake him no matter how hard I tried). So I took him to Lefties and made him buy me a $15.00 hamburger! Then some sight seeing. We were on Seals Ave and we pulled over so he could show me some new apps. He spied a nice young couple in the bushes shooting up some dope, then coming out of the bushes putting their clothes on and walking towards the gas station. Now he thinks Nevada City is a drug infested unsafe place with $15.00 hamburgers and it was his first visit to the lovely village. Oh, you never get a second chance to make a first impression.
On another subject, wonder how the pilgrimage to Baghdad will go next year. Or is that Mecca? I get them all confused. This Trans-LibyaSyrianIraq jihad thang appears to revert to the old maps of thousand of years ago. If Turkey gets involved, we can have the new Ottoman Empire, and a new Assyrian King along with the new Persian Empire protecting the Holy Sites.

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fish

19 June 2014

Dammit Bill I had been trying to break my jeffy habit….
I, like Walt, never ever visit little Jeffie’s sight. Personally, don’t care a lick what another blog is doing, but thanks for sharing. Besides, we have Fish and the mysterious unlucky designated reader.
Going to jeffys is like drinking moonshine…..it might be entertaining…..or it might blind you and rot your brain.
Today….a case of the vapors over “Common Core”™. Frisch waxing pedantic about how we are Nazis……
……you know…..the usual.
Stevie in his Nazi Hunter uniform…..! http://imgur.com/lfjIcBV

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Walt

19 June 2014

El Gordo sure can spew it. Maybe someone can spare a horse trailer
and haul him down to Linda town, so he can be the champeen for that trailer park that now has burning water coming out of the taps.
He can blame it on fracking the second they drop the gate on his ride.
Yubanet can get in on the fun as well. Maybe blame the gold fields.
They might be fracking to extract a little more yeller stuff..( it makes for some great fear mongering.
Yup,, El Gordo would have fun.. Just don’t forget the WD40 spray job before loading the “taxi”.

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Walt

19 June 2014

Holy sh**!!! Anyone see the run on gold today? Silver is jumping as well. Something has the insiders worried if gold has jumped by just about 40 bucks an OZ.
I will hold off on spilling the price of oil… But you may want to head to the gas station NOW, to fill the tank,, and a few cans while your at it.

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fish

19 June 2014

Not terribly concerned about a $40 dollar run….I recall a $90 dollar intraday run about 9 years ago when there wasn’t quite so much turbulence in the world. If we put in a weeks worth of $40 dollar days…well now I’m interested!

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