Rebane's Ruminations
August 2013
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Do not engage with him who has nothing to lose.  It is to fight at a disadvantage, for the other enters without encumbrance, because unaccoutred even of shame; and having auctioned off everything, he has nothing more to lose, and so may allow himself every insolence; ...  Gracian #172

George Rebane

As we continue our tailspin, here are a couple of milestones just passed (pardon the mixed metaphors).

The 13aug13 WSJ reports that “Federal judge Shira Scheindlin ruled on Monday that the New York City Police Department’s 'stop and frisk' policy violates the constitutional rights of minorities.”  The basis for her ruling was the now institutionalized and insane litmus test for detecting “racism”.  The judge and the plaintiffs simply pointed to “the large number of minorities stopped relative to their representation in the overall population”.   That was the sum and substance of what passes for liberal logic.   Never mind that blacks compose the overwhelming proportion of perps – e.g. almost 4 out 5 shooters – on the city streets (more here).  Mayor Bloomberg and most of the city’s residents are enraged at the prospect of the return of high crime rates, and we will track this case as it is appealed to higher jurisdictions.

(BTW, the graphic in ‘The Liberal Mind – Expendable Dead for More Votes’ illustrates the situation of population and perpetrator proportions.  Moreover, it suggests the utter innumeracy (insanity?) of allocating remedial resources according to wrong population proportions – here the fraction of blacks in NYC vs the fraction of black perps in NYC.)

Distinguished author – Bell Curve (with Herrenstein), Coming Apart: The State of White America 1960-2010 – and former liberal scholar Charles Murray points out in his latest – War on Poverty – that the national pathology being promoted by progressives is creating additional legions of dependent Americans through welfare programs like SNAP (food stamps).  He makes the strong case that such pathologies are now becoming mainstream, as in these cadres also morphing into dependable Democrat voters.  A compelling piece of evidence for this is that poverty rates kept decreasing after the Great Depression, and then started increasing after the launch of the War on Poverty in the mid-1960s.

“Liberal pension excesses are now jeopardizing liberal priorities.” reports the 12aug13 WSJ.  The only leftwingers still denying the ravages of union impressed pensions, both public and private, on the cities and states across the nation are the local know-nothing echo chambers and nationally prominent Democrats.  The latter no longer deny the fact, but remain conspicuously silent on the matter.  The cogent summary of all that is –

“Many people (including RR since 2007) have been predicting this crack-up for years, the inevitable result of a political alliance in which unions elect Democrats who pad benefits for unions, which then spend to re-elect Democrats, who repeat the cycle. The music stops only when the taxpayers are tapped out or the city and state can't borrow any more. Detroit had its reckoning last month, and Chicago may be headed the same way unless its liberal politicians decide that a crisis of their own creation is a terrible thing to waste.”

With the loss of the USS Enterprise (CVN-65) that was decommissioned this March, we are now down to ten nuclear super-carriers.  Recall that it is through these ten carrier task groups that the US projects force throughout the world and puts backbone into its (recently abandoned) diplomacy.  We note that it takes twice as many carriers to field a given number on active operations – the other half is being maintained and/or in training exercises.  It was not long ago that our force level was at twelve such carriers.  I note again that the power of the pen depends entirely on the sword that backs its scribbles.

Posted in , ,

76 responses to “Ruminations – 13aug13”

  1. Russ Steele Avatar

    What he was really saying, it is getting harder and harder to pull the wool over the eyes of the sheeple:
    Speaking to State Department personnel at the U.S. Embassy in Brasilia, Brazil, on Tuesday, Secretary of State John Kerry said that “this little thing called the Internet … makes it much harder to govern.” –
    See more at: http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/john-kerry-little-thing-called-internet-makes-it-much-harder-govern#sthash.RV4ga6hm.dpuf

    Like

  2. Michael Anderson Avatar
    Michael Anderson

    George wrote: “With the loss of the USS Enterprise (CVN-65) that was decommissioned this March, we are now down to ten nuclear super-carriers.”
    Thank goodness. Get rid of ALL of them. They are ALL albatrosses. They have NO MILITARY VALUE WHATSOEVER. A huge carrying cost, a vulnerability, our very own Maginot Line.
    We need a crash coarse to scrap these machines and replace them immediately. Nothing to debate here George, you are just flat out WRONG.
    http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/?p=105583

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  3. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    Micheal A – Another good, open minded liberal. “Nothing to debate here George, you are just flat out WRONG.” The thought police are alive and well. If you want to debate something, it appears we have to ask Micheal if it’s allowed.
    Actually, the Maginot line worked perfectly. The Germans army dared not attack France directly. The lesson to be learned was that countries need to consider all of the ways they can be attacked, not just protect the last way they were attacked. The Maginot Line was purely defensive, while our carrier fleets are can be both offensive and defensive. The comparison to the Maginot Line is badly flawed.
    Since Micheal thinks they should be replaced, (immediately, no less!) I’m left wondering what Micheal has in mind as a replacement.

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  4. Michael Anderson Avatar
    Michael Anderson

    Scott, I cannot fathom why you think I represent your thought police shibboleth. All I am doing is disagreeing with George vehemently, and claiming that the debate is long-over. Aircraft carriers have been compared to the Maginot Line for decades–at least since Vietnam–so I am not bringing up anything new here.
    Regarding whether carriers are to be considered offensive or defensive weapons, I will leave that discussion to the Wired article I cited. IMHO and for the record, their offensive capabilities are no longer viable.
    The replacement will be weapons that are already under development. The only point I am making is that we need to get rid of Cold War anachronisms ASAP.

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  5. Paul Emery Avatar

    Yeah Michael-wrong
    Aircraft carriers are nostalgia for Christmas past. (for the defense contractors) Talk about a fat turkey with no defense against any gadgets of modern warfare-lasers, make a hole nukes, modern subs, Really….
    Would anybody who writes on this blog volunteer to serve on one of them? Come on-sign up. Any takers?

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  6. Russ Steele Avatar

    Michael and Paul
    Can you answer this question: If the day of aircraft carriers is over why is China building one, and India and Japan just launched one?
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/donaldkirk/2013/08/13/aircraft-carriers-first-chinathen-india-and-japan-all-want-one/

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  7. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    OK Micheal – what you’re saying is we’re allowed to debate without having to ask you, but you are in charge of saying when we can not debate an issue any longer. That’s a bit more modest, I must say. Thanks for clearing that up.
    “their offensive capabilities are no longer viable.”
    Wow – has this bit of news gone out to our carrier groups?
    “The replacement will be weapons that are already under development.”
    ‘Under development’ means ‘doesn’t work very well, yet’ And when they are ready, and the navy feels they can be phased in to replace the carrier groups, that’s what will happen. Those replacements will also be be made by evil ‘defence contractors’ as well, so I’m not sure how this will make Paul any happier. Perhaps we can farm the work out to Planned Parenthood. They have certainly proved their ability at human slaughter to exceed that of our military.

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  8. Joe Koyote Avatar
    Joe Koyote

    If the day of aircraft carriers is over why is China building one, and India and Japan just launched one?– I recently read an article about this subject and the general consensus was that the main reason for building carriers by these countries was not defense or offense but status. You are not considered a first rate military power unless you have an aircraft carrier.
    ” A compelling piece of evidence for this is that poverty rates kept decreasing after the Great Depression, and then started increasing after the launch of the War on Poverty in the mid-1960s.” this isn’t that compelling.. it’s more like cherry picking or card stacking.
    Perhaps the poverty rates decreased because of Roosevelt’s “socialist” policies and then increased with globalization, downsizing, and the off shore movement of American jobs. Or perhaps poverty was also the result of massive amounts of money being poured into questionable military excursions rather than infrastructure and jobs at home.
    Again, you are assigning a single cause to a complicated issue without considering the multitude of other factors that come into play just to make a partisan stab. Typical right wing propaganda, blame anything else but greedy corporatists. Monstano uber alles.
    Quote of the day –
    “In as much as the first task of the national socialists (nazi party) was to destroy simultaneously all trade unions as well as all liberal democratic institutions, it was necessary to make the people believe that these were devilish inventions, cleverly designed by malicious persons to ruin the German people. This they sought to accomplish by asserting with endless repetition that these institutions were similar in structure and mood to those of communism. They then painted communism in terms so lurid as to horrify even the skeptical.
    They could then rally all good Germans around the Führer, who promised to protect his people by waging relentless war on these “enemies of the fatherland.”
    Sound familiar?

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  9. Gregory Avatar

    JK wins the Godwin Prize today. Joe… Congratulations!.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

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  10. fish Avatar
    fish

    Hey Greg…don’t you actually have use the “H” word to invoke Godwin? Or is merely hinting (e.g. National Socialists) around it sufficient?

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  11. fish Avatar
    fish

    In which I stand corrected regarding Godwins law!

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  12. George Rebane Avatar

    Attributed to The Donald of Trump –
    Let me get this straight . . ..
    We’re going to be “gifted” with a health care plan we are forced to purchase and fined if we don’t,Which purportedly covers at least ten million more people, without adding a single new doctor, but provides for 16,000 new IRS agents, who have recently demonstrated their objective and professional integrity written by a committee whose chairman says he doesn’t understand it, passed by a Congress that didn’t read it but exempted themselves from it, and signed by a Dumbo President who smokes, with funding administered by a treasury chief who didn’t pay his taxes, for which we’ll be taxed for four years before any benefits take effect, by a government which has already bankrupted Social Security and Medicare, Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac, and the Post Office all to be overseen by a surgeon general who is obese, and financed by a country that’sbroke!!!!!
    ‘What the hell could possibly go wrong with that?’

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  13. Joe Koyote Avatar
    Joe Koyote

    Godwin’s law doesn’t change anything.. It’s simply a feeble attempt to rebut an argument without facts. So what, It doesn’t address nor change the fact that the Republican party is using the same strategies as the Nazis to gain power. How about discussing that rather than bringing in the ideas of some apologist trying to create a reason to avoid such a conversation.

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  14. fish Avatar
    fish

    What the hell could possibly go wrong with that?’
    Everything…..which is what is being counted upon. They have their scapegoat (TEAM RED) all lined up. And Harry Reid really let the mask slip this weekend when he said that this was only a “step on the path to single payer”.

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  15. George Rebane Avatar

    re JoeK’s 1001am – the interested reader may be interested in the effect of Truman’s 1946 rollback of FDR’s New Deal policies to get the country out of its post-war recession. And the notion that the War on Poverty was a “single cause” instead of a multi-headed, multi-year socialist snake is ludicrous. Finally, interesting how such simple notions as “general consensus” (whose?) attributing nations building and maintaining carrier capabilities is just for “status” explain away major defense projects across the globe. Liberal logic, or something more seriously amiss in such thinking?
    re JoeK’s 1052am – It’s undeniable that Godwin’s Law is borne out by the historical data of online discourse – RR is just one of many such venues where the Left returns to remind us that conservatives (and conservetarians) are just Nazis in disguise.
    The thing the JoeKs don’t present is data to back up their Republicans “using the same strategies as the Nazis to gain power.” Saying it doesn’t make it so. But everyone can point to this administration’s build-up of militarized police power, armed agencies targeting various groups of Americans, and formations such as the FEMA Corps of young no-nothing, incipient brown shirts.

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  16. Gregory Avatar

    fish, Godwin’s Law of Nazi Analogies covers making analogies to Nazi actions to denigrate others. Forgive the tautology, but it’s pretty clear.
    If it’s brownshirts insisting on ideological purity one wants to focus on, Interior Sec’y Jewell’s comments on hoping there are no “deniers” on her staff echo those of the real brownshirts seven or eight decades ago.

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  17. fish Avatar
    fish

    Nahh Greg I was just being snarky!…..I did send George the link regarding Secretary Jewells statement.
    Funny that they consider us “braindead” Limbaugh followers but react like Hyenas if one of their own even thinks about wandering off the reservation.

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  18. Gregory Avatar

    fish, sorry about missing an appropriate snark, but what do you mean, “us”?
    I ain’t a Limbaugh ‘follower’. He’s wrong 50%… nearly always right when talking about Dems, nearly always wrong when talking up the GOP.

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  19. Gregory Avatar

    George, regarding local militarizations, I found it interesting that the locally deployed armored cars (with RESCUE in big white letters) weren’t being shown off at the Nevada County Fair last week.

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  20. fish Avatar
    fish

    I ain’t a Limbaugh ‘follower’. He’s wrong 50%… nearly always right when talking about Dems, nearly always wrong when talking up the GOP.
    Nor am I. Frisch trotted out the notion that I was during a discussion a while back. I use the reference to illustrate that any argument used in opposition to positions the left espouses then Rush Limbaugh simply must be behind it.

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  21. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    Listening to Tom Sullivan today and the last topic was the HUD Secretary and his decision to prosecute anyone who lives in a community he deems “out of compliance” with his racial and ethnic mix. How will he enforce that? Guns?

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  22. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    Regarding Limbaugh. I listen whenever I can. He was the only person talking about eco extremists 20 years ago and many other issues the lamestreams would not cover. I was fighting the landuse wars and the ESA wars and the timber wars and he was alone on the national front. So, I have a bit of respect for him some ingrates may not have.

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  23. Joe Koyote Avatar
    Joe Koyote

    Earth to George –Here is some proof that the right wing attacks unions: “…..the ravages of union impressed pensions, both public and private, on the cities and states across the nation”, etc. Is that not a negative association, and thus an attack? The quickest way I know to find proof that one strategy of the right wing is to attack unions, is to read the rhetoric in RR. Union bashing is a regular feature here, is it not?
    Have not Republican appointees to the Supreme Court provided majority rulings that further the political power of corporations (and thus the majority stockholders who own them) like Citizens United? Is this not an attack on democratic principles like a fair electoral system (given the power of TV ads in electioneering)? Does the right NOT constantly attack liberal ideas and institutions like Social Security and Medi-care?
    We are talking about persuasion techniques here. Propaganda, euphemistically called public relations in the corporate world was refined by the corporate (including Wall St.) funded Nazis. The same strategies that worked there are now being recycled by the global corporatists once again. In the PR world, if it works, you keep using it until it doesn’t work anymore.
    Again, so what if Godwin’s law is borne out to be true, if it is true (who are your sources). Perhaps enough similarities exist to at least put it on the table for objective discussion. Instead Godwin’s law becomes an excuse for not engaging in that discussion. Partisanship blocks that discussion. This is not about republicans versus democrats or liberals and conservatives. It’s about the American people versus the corporatists who are planning the Forth Reich for us, including Obama, The right’s obsession with blaming Democrats, liberals, unions, environmentalists, teachers, progressives, and every one else clouds their view of the big picture, Monsanto uber alles.

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  24. fish Avatar
    fish

    The right’s lefts obsession with blaming Democrats, liberals, unions, environmentalists, teachers, progressives, and every one else clouds their view of the big picture, Monsanto uber alles. Republicans, conservatives, small business people, gun owning bitter clingers, people who don’t work for the government, libertarians, constitutionalists, and every one else clouds their view of the big picture, Monsanto Omnipotent government uber alles.
    It works both ways Joe.

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  25. Gregory Avatar

    ““…..the ravages of union impressed pensions, both public and private, on the cities and states across the nation”, etc. Is that not a negative association, and thus an attack?”
    Ask Detroit.

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  26. George Rebane Avatar

    JoeK 430pm – Guilty as charged. RR has been an opponent of unions since day one, and has gone into great detail on their iniquities against society and the body politic. But RR’s weapons are rhetoric and reason, admittedly not very effective against the progressive propaganda machine that today dominates the media and academia. But it is the best I can do with the support of like minded readers.
    Godwin’s law became a truism because even a casual perusal of the public left/right debate inexorably validates it. One need look no further than these pages for evidence. (We note that my 1106am received another response from the chorus of crickets.)

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  27. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    There is a huge difference between ‘attacking unions’ and pointing out the ruinous effects of certain unions on the companies and municipalities that employ their workers. I am all in favor of unions. Freedom of association and all that it implies. Freedom of association also means freedom to not associate. The idea that unions can become a monopoly for folks working at a certain trade or at a certain place of business is completely un-Constitutional. And there the trouble begins. A certain president by the name of Roosevelt was against federal workers forming a union. Would those today on the left like to say he was ‘attacking unions’? Trade and govt unions have, in fact, destroyed or financially weakened municipalities across this nation. Pointing that out is not ‘attacking’ unions.

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  28. Joe Koyote Avatar
    Joe Koyote

    fish 4:43 — I agree, it cuts both ways, which is a good point. As long as people are distracted by partisan bickering and blaming they aren’t going to be able to sit down and find a solution to our problems. In the meantime, the global corporatists of all supposed political persuasions, religions, and countries are pushing us down the road to Monsantoland, which will probably socially resemble medieval Europe only with advanced technology. All I am saying is that I think some of the political rhetoric now being used to ideologically divide the country resembles the rhetoric used to convince the German people to put their hopes for a better future in the hands of the Nazis. Bad choice! I think the global corporatists are trying to do the same thing. While many RR fans agree about the dangers of global corporatism, somehow talking about persuasion/propaganda issues seems to raise the collective blood pressure by forty points as each side points their finger (often their middle one) at each other. Yes it is a touchy subject, but one that needs to be discussed none-the-less.

    Like

  29. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    “Yes it is a touchy subject, but one that needs to be discussed none-the-less.”
    Can’t argue with that Mr. Koyote. But, then again, there is nothing is impossible.

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  30. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    The pension argument is absent one major factor, the financial crisis that destroyed pensions that were heavily invested in the deregulated market.

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  31. George Rebane Avatar

    JoeK 1004pm – OK, on RR we discuss (and cuss) all things; we are an irreverent bunch. I’ve never heard of Monsantoland and its evils. If you write a piece on it, I’ll publish it here and it can serve to launch a discussion of corporatism. But I do want you to send someone besides your friendly crickets to acknowledge that RR has for years bemoaned the relationship between large corporations and governments (those that cannot compete with government support/subsidies).
    BenE 736am – your comment seems to be pregnant with an assertion that is laboring to follow, what is it?

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  32. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    Ben – there were numerous articles being written before ’08 on the underfunding of pensions. Both private and municipal. Also about the coming financial problems for both SS and medicare. The meltdown did not “destroy” the pensions. Also, I would be fascinated to hear the details of the ‘market’ with no regulations. What planet did this market exist on?

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  33. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Scott,
    I made the mistake of letting George control the meme. The mistake is George rarely gives a position outside of talking points of the powers that be. Not that he has any direct connection but he is spoon fed right wing think tank positions through the echo chamber. Hundreds of millions are spent each year on corporate friendly theories, focus groups, and messaging to manipulate the suckers such as George who play the trickle down theory for misinformation perfectly. He is one notch above the bottom, his readers.
    Pensions are in as much trouble as being reported it is a concerted effort from corporate America to put the final nail in the coffin of what a 100 plus year labor movement accomplished. Check out this study.
    http://crr.bc.edu/briefs/state-and-local-pension-costs-pre-crisis-post-crisis-and-post-reform/
    As for the deregulation, it started in the Reagan administration and we have never looked back. The big two that allowed a $900 trillion dollar derivative market coupled with FDIC to exist was-
    Remember the global GDP is around %60 trillion
    Commodities Futures Modernization Act 2000 (Clinton an Republicans)
    Gramm Leach Bliley 1999 (Clinton and Republicans)
    There were plenty of people screaming about derivatives but those same powers that be George blindly follows controls our politicians and owns our media so those speaking out against the derivative market were character assassinated.
    Does the name Brooksley Born ring a bell.
    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/warning/view/

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  34. George Rebane Avatar

    BenE 901am – Your comment to Scott’s 803am is a non-response, and appears to repeat your contention that the pension fund managers are/were incompetent and need/ed a more robust set of training wheels that only government could provide. And your gratuitous swipes at me and RR are now coming at a regular and more tiresome frequency.
    Ben, you have a pretty big audience for your screed here on RR. And that’s fine, because you are a clear bookend on the ideological spectrum that this blog presents to its readers.
    But I do want you to show a little appreciation for the trumpet that RR provides your views, and referring to me as belonging to a class of unthinking “suckers” who just “trickle down misinformation” makes me think that you really don’t appreciate the contention of ideas. This calls into question the purpose of your continuing as a loud voice on these pages. In short, you are beginning to piss me off, so please convince me that you still have something cogent to contribute in this forum.

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  35. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    Ben – you mentioned that pensions were destroyed because they invested in a ‘deregulated market’. That means a market with no regulations. Please tell us about this market with no regulations. Just because some regulations changed does not mean there were no regulations or that it was deregulated. I am well aware that many in the financial industry (as well as home buyers) got greedy and stupid. The basic problem leading up to the financial collapse was the fed govt pressing the banks to make loans to those who could not afford them and falsely assuring everyone it would make good all of the bad loans. It was, in fact, govt regulations that set up the trouble. Plenty of blame for everyone.
    Lots of folks did quite well, financially, during the time period that involved the real estate market bubble bursting. The good folks on the left in the federal govt assured the rubes that all was quite well in the markets and our own Maxine Waters told us that “housing prices never go down”. Well….
    As far as pensions being under-funded, this is not a matter of politics or opinion. There are standards that have been in place for decades that dictate prudent funding levels. These have not and are not being met by both industries and municipalities.
    Alarms were going off for years well before 2008 about this. If I warn some one that they are venturing out onto thin ice, I’m not ‘attacking’ them, just warning about danger for their own good.

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  36. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    George,
    When I first started commenting here I thought that you were actually a independent thinker who was willing to have a discussion. This isn’t the case. Your typical response is that nobody who disagrees with you is smart enough to understand the issues. Your insults are much more polite but just as vitriolic as Sean Hannity and Glenn Beck once the decoder ring allows us to understand what the hell you are saying.
    I don’t like bullies at all. Those who share your values of hierarchy and power are bullies in my opinion. Believing that some people are superior either by force or by genetics. I and billions like myself will never lie down and accept the garbage put forward by those who sit in power and you are regurgitating the garbage as if it is the only reality because that is just the way things work. The one good thing from globalization is the people of the world are coming together and the “reality” that has perpetuated the oppression of others to enrich a small few is coming to an end. They know it and that is why there is such a crack down and militarization of all societies going on at the moment. Revolutions are taking place all over the planet and the Occupy Movement and the fall of European nations was the straw that broke the camels back of thinking it isn’t a real threat. They were very effective of squashing the movement through oppressive actions and “laws” that are put in place to protect those who sit in powerful positions and those who do their work for them.
    The fight is just getting going and it will get ugly. I have faith in that the non violent path will succeed when all is said and done. Many people will suffer and many people will die. But for the first time in world history the average person no matter where we are located on the planet has communications. That is the game changer for the paradigm shift that has been incrementally happening for the last few centuries.
    I am reminded of a Martin Luther King Jr “Ways of Meeting Oppression”
    http://www.gibbsmagazine.com/Ways%20to%20respond.htm
    In my life I have chosen option two and three. The stronger I get in my convictions the more I act in the realm of option three.

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  37. Gregory Avatar

    George, my experience is in line with Sowell’s Conflict of Visions… when evangelical progressives like Ben find someone who doesn’t agree with them, there’s one of two possibilities… ignorance or malevolence. So the lecturing begins until it’s clear malevolence (or willful ignorance) is the motivating factor.
    That the progressive’s head might be up their arse doesn’t occur to them, possibly because it’s dark in there.
    From his recent inability to see that a million to 100k is only 10:1 and not 1000:1, it’s clear numbers dance in Ben’s head, a jumble. No one that innumerate can have a clue about the numbers that are 8+ orders of magnitude larger that dominate our unfunded liability woes.
    Welcome to option 3, Ben. Most of us figured violence (including destroying private property like survey markings) isn’t appropriate way back in grade school. Better late than never.

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  38. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    The irony of BenE’s positions and his utter disdain of the posters here is the Arabs and the other third world people’s think the same of him simply because he lives in America. Too funny.

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  39. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Todd,
    Actually most people around the globe like Americans and oppose US policies. Funny I haven’t seen it before now. I am always complaining about how our government is supposed to be “us” but represents corporate interests instead. International people like Americans but not our corporate interest policies.

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  40. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Greg,
    First, If you look at the way George writes there is very little options on the directions the conversation can go. What would you expect from a evangelical progressive like myself? To sit back while constantly being insulted and abused.
    Reading the overview of the Sowell’s Conflict of Visions. He gets it partly correct on both constrained and unconstrained in modern day US political philosophy but very wrong in the describing of the behaviors.
    There are two theories that explain current US political ideology perfectly.
    The first one is from the father of American neoconservatism Irvin Kristol.
    This paraphrasing of course – Conservatives celebrate American past greatness while liberals celebrate the greatness America can achieve.
    The other theory Sowell touches on with his constrained and unconstrained.
    Conservatives believe in original sin and that all people need punishment from a authoritarian figure to be good. In other words, a top down system.
    Liberals believe that inherently people are good and we need to set up society in such a way that when people fall on hard times they don’t fall through the cracks. We do this through coming together as a whole.

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  41. Gregory Avatar

    To the contrary, Ben, I think you’ll find the Moslem street is ticked off not about US “corporate interests” but US support of the state of Israel and, thanks to Obama, US drones killing combatants and innocents alike in Moslem countries.

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  42. fish Avatar
    fish

    What would you expect from a evangelical progressive like myself?
    It took a while but at least you’ve admitted it.
    You know what they say…..it’s the first step on the road to recovery.

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  43. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Greg,
    What do you think the US support of Israel, controlling oppressive governments in Muslim nations, and the drone program are doing? They are securing positions for strategy resources for corporate interests/ profits. Why did the US overthrow a democratically elected prime minister in Iran and prop up a pro American shah? For the hell of it. Do you know what the TAPI pipeline is and can you map the route? If yes then take a look at our targets for the last dozen or so years. Why did Cheney secret Energy Task Force meeting in March 2001 divide up Iraqi oil fields to “foreign suitors” and the Bush administration have dozens of PNAC members? To bring it back to the Americas, where does the term banana republic come from?

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  44. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Greg,
    What do you think the US support of Israel, controlling oppressive governments in Muslim nations, and the drone program are doing? They are securing positions for strategy resources for corporate interests/ profits. Why did the US overthrow a democratically elected prime minister in Iran and prop up a pro American shah? For the hell of it. Do you know what the TAPI pipeline is and can you map the route? If yes then take a look at our targets for the last dozen or so years. Why did Cheney secret Energy Task Force meeting in March 2001 divide up Iraqi oil fields to “foreign suitors” and the Bush administration have dozens of PNAC members? To bring it back to the Americas, where does the term banana republic come from?
    http://www.judicialwatch.org/bulletins/maps-and-charts-of-iraqi-oil-fields/
    Maps and Charts of Iraqi Oil Fields
    Last Updated: February 14, 2012
    Synopsis
    These are documents turned over by the Commerce Department, under a March 5, 2002, court order as a result of Judicial Watch’s Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) lawsuit concerning the activities of the Cheney Energy Task Force. The documents contain a map of Iraqi oilfields, pipelines, refineries and terminals, as well as two charts detailing Iraqi oil and gas projects, and “Foreign Suitors for Iraqi Oilfield Contracts.” The documents are dated March 2001.

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  45. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Fish,
    I have never claimed anything different. I am growing more fond of the label/ term majoritarian since most of my positions are in line with the majority of citizens in the US.
    Its not about the party but about the values and ideas.
    Green Party and majoritarian platform
    They’re for single-payer, everybody in, nobody out, free choice of doctor and hospital. That’s been a majoritarian position for years. Living wage? Overwhelming. Anti-war? [About] 70% want us out of Afghanistan now. The Green Party stands for bringing the soldiers back and curtailing the American empire. Cutting the military budget? A majority of Americans think that the military’s budget is too big and should be cut. Getting rid of special tax breaks for corporations? Overwhelming support. Renegotiating NAFTA and WTO? Majority support. I can go on and on.
    Read more: http://swampland.time.com/2012/07/12/qa-ralph-nader-on-the-green-party-obama-and-romney/#ixzz2c9F0AE21

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  46. Gregory Avatar

    “This paraphrasing of course – Conservatives celebrate American past greatness while liberals celebrate the greatness America can achieve.”
    I’m no Kristol fan, but I’d love to see a pointer to anything he wrote that Ben (or an unnamed source) mangled to get the above.
    “Liberals believe that inherently people are good and we need to set up society in such a way that when people fall on hard times they don’t fall through the cracks. We do this through coming together as a whole.”
    Left-liberal progressives generally ignore the unintended side effects of giving away free stuff to those who don’t try very hard to not fall through the cracks.
    Ben, how’s the nursing school effort going?

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  47. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    Conservatives tend to be realistic about what actually makes things work and liberals tend to believe in fairy tales. Single Payer just means ‘free stuff’ to most people.
    Liberals always point to an increasing gap in income, but that is always the outcome of progressive policies. It happened during the depression in the 30’s and it’s happening again now. Less choice in how I spend my money means more money concentrated in the hands of the few. More big govt – single payer – means I have to shell out more to cover the non producers. There will be more non producers because there is less reason to work. If medical, food and housing are all ‘rights’ then there is no reason to work. Living wage just means I have to pay more to have some one do something I can do for myself. I will then chose to do it myself and have no need for the lowest wage earners.

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  48. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Greg,
    Nobody gives away free stuff. We all participate and we all benefit. Is the road you drive on free or did you pitch in a little here and a little there with small taxes? Just as our parents did. How about the public school you went to was it free or did the people your parents age or older chip into the system to guarantee it would be there for you. Now it is your turn to pay into that system but somehow in a very distorted view you seem to think you are paying for someone else instead of paying back what somebody else provided for you. Totally selfish bs but I wouldn’t expect anything less from you.
    I am so glad you are concerned with my education. Actually I am registered and returning this semester for a couple classes, I will keep you updated.

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  49. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Scott,
    Have you ever visited an undeveloped nation and ventured out of the cities/ tourist areas? I am guessing you haven’t because you would see how people live in abject poverty work their asses off just to get through each day. Why do I bring up undeveloped nations when we are talking about the US? Because you have this notion that hard work is the only thing standing in the way of prosperity and poverty. The difference between prosperous nations and poor nations are the infrastructure, which is an investment from the entire society not just a wealthy few.

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