Rebane's Ruminations
October 2011
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George Rebane

•    New Army rifle, a truly fearsome weapon
•    Obama uses FDR’s re-election model
•    Local left concerned about govt regs on food

XM25Army’s new “rifle” is game changer – The Army has released the specs on its new XM25 Counter Defilade Target Engagement System (love that name) that is really a shoulder-fired 25mm cannon that fires a laser-ranged projectile.   The shell explodes at a preset distance from its discharge, and this preset distance can be quickly and accurately set by the trooper using the built-in laser sight.  So if you’re a bad guy and take cover behind a berm or corner of a building (the defilade), you’re dead meat.  The trooper just puts the laser dot on the near edge of the defilade, adds a yard or two with his trigger finger, points it above the berm or by the building’s corner and fires.  The shell goes just beyond the defilade and explodes like a grenade.  Next case please.  (H/T to reader)

Readers know that I always look at these new military and law enforcement sensor and weapon systems with the additional perspective of the 2nd Amendment within the concept of par force.  Governments using the XM25 will have little trouble putting down armed uprisings of people using conventional arms.  That is why future technology augmented autocracies will be very stable.

Obama uses FDR’s re-election model.  In 1936, at the depth of Depression1, FDR blamed the country’s sad state of affairs on capitalism and corporate interests instead of the grim array of socialist fodder that he had served up since being elected in 1932.  By 1937 his attacks on business were regular fare.  Today Obama has taken that page from our first socialist president and improved upon it with the Occupy Wall Street movement that he and his launched earlier this year.  (more here)  As I have noted before, these demonstrations are now becoming the Obama riots of 2011/12.  Russ Steele on Nevada County 2012 is keeping close track of the progress of this strategic diversion movement of the so-called 99%.

FDA overreach.  Last week I had another lunch with Nevada City Councilwoman (and former mayor) Reinette Senum.  We met to again discuss her project to launch the Sierra Land Collaborative wherein high-tech and vertical farming methods can be used locally to yield produce for local consumption.  The farms would be staffed by returning veterans and selected homeless people as part of their rehabilitation.   Part of the conversation involved a lament on how the feds are now imposing draconian rules and regs on what kinds of foodstuffs (e.g. raw milk) can be sold by one person to another.  We agreed that bloated governments can turn around to bite even those who promote their growth.  In the meantime Reinette is off to study and support the OWS movement in NYC – we look forward to her report.

[27oct2011 update]  A reader sent this 1948 cartoon that was released into the season when Americans finally began to see socialism and communism for what they are, and the US changed course markedly from its pre-war track and the road then taken by many European countries led by Great Britain.  History students will remember 1948 as the year Winston Churchill announced that “an Iron Curtain has descended across the continent” of Europe heralded by the Berlin blockade and airlift.

[29oct2011 update]  Only people rabidly intent on making California a template for a police state would consider the topics discussed in this CARB related hearing of the California Senate.  However, these idiots are dead serious in the deliberations about their plans for California drivers.  And it all comes to you courtesy of the Left.

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96 responses to “Ruminations – 26oct2011 (29oct2011 update)”

  1. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Par Force will be consumer strikes and actions . It’s already starting to happen in Colorado. Look what happened in India when consumers reused to buy from the “company store”. The Brits packed up and left because they couldn’t turn a schilling any more. This is going to be fun.
    “The Mile High Showdown is associated with a national campaign “to restructure Wall Street” called The New Bottom Line, which is demanding reform from three major banks: Wells Fargo, Bank of America and Chase. Of the three, Wells Fargo has the biggest presence in Colorado, which Hanna says is why activists here plan to target it.
    If Wells Fargo fails to come to its senses this afternoon and do all those things (in our letter), our communities will send a clear message that they can no longer use our money to foreclose on families and support deportations,” Hanna says.”
    http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/2011/10/wells_fargo_protest_colorado_progressive_coalition.php

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  2. Mikey McD Avatar

    Run! you can still make it….
    “Today, Wednesday, everybody has an opportunity to come by Briar Patch between 12 and 4 pm to sign a petition of Local Food Freedom (LFF) addressed to the California Department of Food and Agriculture (CDFA).
    The petition is asking the CDFA to exempt the Family Cow/Goat and Herd Share Agreements from existing regulations which currently make any dispensing and receiving of raw milk from an unlicensed dairy illegal.
    Come by and show your support!”

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  3. Brad Croul Avatar
    Brad Croul

    XM25 – Duck hunting just got a lot easier!

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  4. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    See Paul – if you don’t like a corporation, you stop doing business with them. You lefties are slower than molasses in the winter. According to the OWS street rabble, this won’t work because the corps control everything, so how is this possible? Won’t the banks just send troops to your house and force you at gun point to put your money back into their branches? Won’t your children be held captive? If you want to bother us with this tripe, you should have the decency to at least apologize to us on the conservative side first. We’ve been telling you all along that this was all you had to do.
    Of course this didn’t quite work when folks stopped buying GM products because President Zero just stepped in and gave them our money to keep going. Let’s see how much money Wells will have to bribe the coin operated president to stop this run on the bank. Let the fun begin!

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  5. D. King Avatar
    D. King

    “…coin operated president…”
    LMAO!

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  6. Walt Avatar
    Walt

    Duck hunting? Didn’t think of that,lol… But that is one cool weapon. They have been on the science channels for a while. But according to Berkeley “U” of the net, ( wiki) they have only made five. So did a contract get signed?

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  7. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    You entirely miss the point Scott. The OWS movement is rapidly moving in that direction as the logical target for action. Lookout when this catches on. It will make the Tea Party look like just that. Non violent consumer action. The ultimate weapon against disfigured capitalism.

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  8. Steve Frisch Avatar
    Steve Frisch

    The term and concept of “satyagraha” needs to be rapidly applied to the OWS movement. Burning police cars won’t get anyone anywhere, although I think a cogent case could be made that the excesses of some of the protest movement of the 60’s were instrumental in moving public policy. The issue is that if one wants to make permanent change protest needs to go beyond acting out against a perceived threat and rapidly move into insisting on a specific set of actions it advocates.
    The point that the Tea Party movement does not have a specific coherent agenda and set of actins but is rather a loose collection of ideas is largely responsible for its force being diffused over the past year.
    The OWS is rapidly trying to define its agenda, but it needs to do so quickly, and move into a non-violent, truth-seeking insistence on change.
    For the record, I can never condone violence as a public policy tool and I find it as equally abhorrent in the OWS movement as any other.
    That does not mean that they can not move quickly to the Satyagraha stage and gain my heartfelt support. I will be watching thier process on-line to select an agenda.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satyagraha

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  9. Steve Frisch Avatar
    Steve Frisch

    Oh yeah, OWSneeds a new name as well. OWS does not represent the true depth and goals of the movement. I think ReForm might be a better moniker.

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  10. George Rebane Avatar

    SteveF – what ‘truth’ have you been able to determine that the OWS demonstrators/rioters are trying to force, and upon whom?

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  11. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 759pm – “disfigured capitalism” a mighty concept indeed. Do you think that any of the OWS street people understand how the government fomented and enabled the subprime loan mess? Does anyone out there know what Barney and Chris pushed the industry to do as they lied about the role and status of Fannie and Freddie, GSEs that promoted and instantly bought every subprime loan the banks made, giving them the funds to continue lending??? How does this fall only on the shoulders of the banks (capitalists) that behave in their self-interest while being encouraged by a Congress that shielded the entire operation until it collapsed?

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  12. Ben Emery Avatar

    Rioters?
    Peaceful rallies that get hammered by authorities. In nonviolent fashion people surround the victims of the violence not go after those who inflicted the violent action. Great strength is found in non violence activism and pacifism. I can do the former but am not strong enough yet for the latter.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2011/oct/26/occupy-oakland-protests-live#block-5

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  13. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    I don’t think I missed anything – you on the left claimed that the all powerful corps control everything and now you find that they have no power at all. If their customers all leave, they wither to nothing. We on the conservative side have told you that all along.
    I have never given any money to B of A or Wells or Citi or any of them. Apparently you on the left have have been quite generous to them, or how else would you be in the position of being able to now deny them funds? It turns out that the useful idiots of the left have been the problem. First you give them money and then they squander it and then you elect the fool that that takes my money to bail them out. Thanks a lot.

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  14. Ben Emery Avatar

    When those who aren’t part of the privileged class or doing their bidding they need to be silenced.
    This is why more democracy is the answer not less.
    http://www.occupy-oc.org/tears-stream-as-city-council-unanimously-agrees-occupy-tents-are-a-form-of-speech/#.TqjZqksMHKM.facebook

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  15. Steve Frisch Avatar
    Steve Frisch

    Oh George, what a difference transposing words and concepts make in the English language. The concept is “truth force” not “force truth”. There is a difference. To force truth is to impose it, to work with truth force is to state it and demonstrate it. One is active I position, the other is passive demonstration.
    The simple truth I am hoping that the mature OWS movement can demonstrate is that our economic and political systems are dysfunctional because they are failing to build prosperity and empowerment across a broad cross section of society, and that our systems need to be reformed to achieve more equity. That is why I prefer to think of the movement coming to a cogent reform agenda. That reform agenda should include decentralization of capital so that the sources of capital are closer to the community, decentralization of power so that more decision-making is done closer to the local level, and more transparency and accountability in government.
    These reforms can be achieved while protecting all of the traditional rights we enjoy today: the right to private property, which is intriinsically tied to democracy, the right to speech, assembly, press and religion, the right due process and security in our homes and the living of our lives.
    I believe that in very many ways what the Tea PfarFty movement is seeking and what the OWS movement is seeking are one in the same thing, but we live in a society trapped in ideology and incivility, which inhibits our ability to work together.
    A prime example of this intentional incivility is transposing “truth force” and ” force truth”. This sort of word play to change the meaning of ones intent is what traps us in frozen governance and civil society, and makes us incapable of reaching accords to advance mutual objectives.
    By the way, I agree with you that Barney and Chris share some of the blame, if we must cast blame, for the mess we are in; however, so do very many conservative Republicans and free marketeers who were right there with them taking advantage of the lack of vigilance of the people.
    Clear enough?

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  16. Steve Frisch Avatar
    Steve Frisch

    That should read “active imposition”, and the “right to due process”. I-pad’s are killing the English language!

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  17. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    Hey look, Jerry Brown delivers on his promise to address pension reform.
    http://news.yahoo.com/brown-seek-sweeping-calif-pension-rollbacks-023421049.html

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  18. Barry Pruett Avatar

    I read that story. Sounds good at first glance, but I would like to see the details before I start doing back flips.

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  19. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    I agree that we need to see the actual policy when it is released, but I am hopeful that some progress can be made.

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  20. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    Good to see that Moonbeam is addressing it. Funny he didn’t mention any of this plan when he ran for office. Let’s wait and see the details and how far it gets in the leg. I like to see that there will be a 401K-type component. Perhaps the majority of state workers will now see the connection of a healthy economy with their retirement. When I worked there most were clueless about basic economics.

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  21. George Rebane Avatar

    SteveF 1122pm – No intent to misrepresent your thought. Since the satyagraha’s definition includes the notion of force – an entity that has both direction and magnitude – even its “passive demonstration” has some agent who is the target of such demonstrations. I was referring to ‘force’ only in that sense to invite your further dissertation on the Occupiers. Maybe I should have asked, ‘In your view, what truths are they attempting to demonstrate to whom?’

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  22. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    Ben – ‘When those who aren’t part of the privileged class or doing their bidding they need to be silenced.’ Please define the privileged class and list all of the different classes in the US as you see them. Thanks

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  23. Mikey McD Avatar

    Wilson ‘solved’ the pension crisis in CA only to have Davis unsolve it. Moonbeam’s pension press release is not worth squat, Arnold issued the same press release (multiple times) and action was never taken.
    In the words of Arnold’s bi-partisan pension commission (paraphrase) “The unions are too powerful and any reform savings would be cancelled out by the legal fees incurred for such reforms. It is impossible to compete with the public employee unions.”

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  24. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Yes George, disfigured capitalism. When billions of dollars are made without the slightest pretense of creating any useful goods or services one can only speculate where the money come from and what would the benefit to the economy be if it rewarded useful innovative efforts. Instead we have a tiny minority capturing a huge percentage of the capital without contributing anything useful to earn it. Please tell me, for example, how making millions off successful hedge fund gambling creates any useful goods or services? Just because you earn money doesn’t mean you’ve done anything of value to earn it. When you have indeed trillions being earned without any useful services or products produced you have what I term as disfigured capitalism.
    My grandfather was a Greek truck farmer in Yolo County and raised his family growing fruits and vegetables and selling them at the farmers wholesale marked in Sacramento. I remember riding in his truck and hanging out with him as he did the business of selling his produce going from one buyer to another till he got the best price. Most buyers were wholesalers who would service a string of markets reselling the produce and making a useful profit acting as a procurer and distributor. Now thats real capitalism. Making a reasonable profit on your added value to goods and services.
    It was a set up deal that the government would bail out the “too big to fail” institutions that made billions and passed it on to a tiny few before crying Uncle to Georgie B who then rewarded them with TARP money that was essentially borrowed passing on the debt to future generations. Obama hired the same crew and continued the same practices and that’s where we are today. It may not be the role of government to provide a shelter from the storm so to speak but it is a legitmate role to warn us one is coming. Our Deer in the Headlights President (Bush 2) had no clue or understanding what was going on but he was a useful idiot for those that did.
    George, blaming this on Fannie and Freddie is betting short on the problem. You know better than that.

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  25. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Frsiech should not tangle with Mikey on monetary issues. There is no contest and Friesch is way overmatched.

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  26. Ben Emery Avatar

    Mickey,
    Privileged Class are those who have complete excess wealth having the privilege of not having to consider the basic costs of the necessities of life.
    Working class breaks up into many categories
    Upper Middle 6 figures but still dependent on working for a paycheck
    Middle income is all over the map it has to do with control over their time
    Working poor are those who work full time, multiple jobs, and have to make choices of what necessities can be neglected
    Poor who work just enough not to die from malnourishment and survive with government programs or help from others.
    Destitute that have become institutionalized to the condition of not being able to function on a daily basis due to either generational poverty, mental instability, or the pressures of every mistake could negatively impact those who depend on them. This class is 100% dependent on government services and don’t won’t to jeopardize their one constant in their lives.

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  27. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 1023am – I think we circled this bush (pun intended) many times already. That the Left does not admit the push-pull role of the federal government in creating the financial debacle short circuits such discussion. Starting with the 1977 CRA and going through the exhortations of and lies from Congress (e.g. Barney and Chris), the mortgage industry was goaded and prodded to make sub-prime loans, and celebrated for making them. The feds, through Fannie and Freddie, made these “no-doc”/”low-doc” loans risk free since these GSEs were also told to simply buy the mortgages and give the issuing banks additional cash to keep the sub-prime tsunami going. The capitalists did what all good capitalists do in any system jaundiced by the government – the play it for all it’s worth. All of this was done with full knowledge in Freddie and Fannie and the appropriate Congressional oversight committees. But vote buying ideology ruled.
    This scam is known broadly in the land today, and rejected only by the hard Left which guarantees that as long as they are in the wheelhouse, nothing will change and the debacle continues. That you seem to attribute this insight only to me (“You know better than that.”) is not true, but a complement that I will accept.

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  28. Ben Emery Avatar

    George,
    The ability of getting subprime bad loans off their books in COD/ derivatives (CFMA 2000 and GLBA 1999) is what fueled the bubble.
    It is ultimately the government at fault but who controls the government and gives them their marching orders? It is definitely not the people.
    Get special interest money out of politics.

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  29. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    George
    You are such a die hard Republican. The Republicans controlled both houses from 1994-2006 Also the Presidency under Reagan-Bush 1 and Bush 2. Bush 2 enthusiastically supported housing ownership access and did nothing to warn the public that this was coming down because all his pals were making billions from the associated scams. Do you not believe it’s a legitimate role of government to issue “storm warnings”? Either they didn’t know or they knew and kept their mouth shut which I believe to be the case. The banksters knew this was going to happen and got away with gaming their investments and walking away with billions which was the plan all along and also which makes this criminal fraud.
    William Black writes “The essence of fraud is convincing the victim to trust the perpetrator – and then betraying that trust.” which is exactly what happened and why it was a criminal activity. When the OWS crowd stops sputtering and gets serious that’s where they will go and it won’t be pretty.
    The fact that there has not been one fraud indictment shows how corrupt Washington culture is and I mean both party’s.
    A good question I don’t have an answer for is where did the money they ended up with come from. In other words if there was $100 in the pot and they got $70 where would the money be had they not scammed the system? Also what happens in a capitalist system when huge profits are made without providing useful goods and services. Hence my disfigured capitalism taq.

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  30. Mikey McD Avatar

    Exhibit A: Global Central Planning creates bubble in real estate, encourages risk in financial sector and brings banks to the verge of collapse (2000-2009).
    Exhibit B: Decades of central planning and socialism brings down Europe to the verge of collapse (19??-present).
    Problem Summary: central planning.
    Solution: End central planning, free the markets.

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  31. D. King Avatar
    D. King

    There is no need to fear, the new Cap N Trade system is here!
    http://articles.latimes.com/2011/oct/21/local/la-me-cap-trade-20111021
    Bubbles you say? Nooooo!
    From 2009
    http://www.csmonitor.com/Environment/Bright-Green/2009/0710/could-cap-and-trade-create-another-economic-bubble
    “This system would create whole new classes of financial assets, which financial firms could securitize, derivatize, and speculate on.”…
    “Sound familiar? Many critics are pointing out that this new market for carbon derivatives could, without effective oversight, usher in another Wall Street free-for-all just like the one that precipitated the implosion of the global economy.”
    Are we really here again…really?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania

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  32. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    PaulE, was it the wacally Republicans that fueled the dot.com bubble and its bust right before Bush took office?

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  33. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Todd
    Now that’s another golden moment in Capitalism. I don’t place a Party gender to either case. Todd as you know I’m not a Democratic party enthusiast although I generally favor that side of the aisle as the lesser of two evils which, by the way I acknowledge is still voting for evil.
    These “bubbles” are examples of disfigured capitalism when value is given to goods and services that have no value to sucker people into investing money under fraudulent pretenses. I had a friend who made big bucks in those days because he knew how the system worked and would invest in “pump and dump” stocks and ride the stock wave jumping out right before it collapsed. He specialized in phony dot coms that were designed to rise and fall and suck money out of investors along the way that thought they were buying into a legitimate business.
    These people have no allegiance to either party but they do pay big to create legislation that favors their scam of the day. Blaming the Republicans or Democrats is not the way to go here. However observing the violation of public trust that occurs when they fiddle while America burns is legitimate.

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  34. Ben Emery Avatar

    Mickey,
    At the root of all this is one of the issues we agree, the banks. The banks wouldn’t have taken the risk of subprime loans if they didn’t know they couldn’t insure, bundle them, and then take shorts on them when they sold them off. Before the two pieces of legislation I mentioned above (GLBA 1999 and CFMA 2000) banks weren’t go hog wild with the subprime mortgages. Financial sector saw an opportunity to exploit the system another way and bought off our government to change the rules to allow them to do it legally. In the process they understood the government wouldn’t let them fail because our politicians take their orders from the banks and they told George W Bush and Congress to pass the bailouts despite the overwhelming opposition from the people.
    As for bubble economies, they come about when a small few people have so much excess capital laying around they gamble with it creating bubbles that will eventually burst.

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  35. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE and BenE – If I get the drift of your compelling arguments, it is not the fault of the politicians who accept the bribes, but the people who offer them. Well, they’re technically not bribes in the criminal sense, even though they give rise to corruption and criminal (in my view) behavior by the politicos.
    Does the following statement by a lobbyist absolve a politician? ‘Here’s the way votes in the legislature would best serve our interests, and we have $X to support the legislators who support our industry and interests.’ Jo Ann and I are going to some upcoming fundraisers where we will be, in every sense, making the same statement to the politicians seeking to fatten their re-election war chests. Are then the politicians innocent, and we become the subsequent guilty parties?

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  36. George Rebane Avatar

    Memo to our Leftwing Readers – Apropos the Occupy demonstrations and riots, please note that these people and their sponsors are proudly labeling themselves as ‘progressives’, ‘liberals’, ‘communists’, ‘socialists’, etc. As I have explained many times, these are not pejorative labels that some RR readers have misconstrued in the past on these pages. They are labels of pride that seek to efficiently communicate to America the ideological origins and objectives of the Occupiers. And that they do.

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  37. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Any Green Libertarians in the group? Labels are so silly. It sure serves the purpose of dumbing down conversations
    George
    there was a time when we voted in politicians and gave them the privilege to make decisions on their better judgement based on information they gather as representatives of the people. To give someone money and requiring a pledge that they will vote your way on specific issues tarnishes the system and in my opinion is a direct form of bribery. The Norquest pledge will haunt the Repubs and I would never vote for anyone who took such a pledge.
    Why even have representatives? Why not just straight votes on issues such as right to choose yes or no, no new taxes, yes or no, balanced budget yes or no. But wait, isn’t that direct vote Democracy? I know what you think of that so what do you have in mind?

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  38. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    I guess I am just a simple fellow and I need people to identify themselves. Sort of like needing a jihadist to let us know he is a Muslim Sharia jihadist or maybe a communist Che’ follower or whatever. Simple people are not so sophisticated as those lefty’s that can live without knowing what someone is, their beliefs or even their pedigree. Simple folks need to know, it is just a thing we simple people have needed and done since the caves.
    I am a proud conservative, that is my label, nothing spectacular but it does describe me pretty well. Why the liberals turned chicken about being called liberals is a lesson all need to learn. Why would liberals reject and rename? Could it be their self imposed “label” became a pejorative? I would say yes. Their actions as liberals in screwing up the planet became a yoke around their neck so they became “progressives”. Commies and socialists are now “secularists”. Say what? Well, the conservatives of our country are proud of their label and we fully embrace the label. Sure there are people that twist the definition but for the most part conservatives share a like minded view of things. It sure is better for the psychic health when you accept what you are and don’t hide from it. The left just don’t have the heuvos here in America to do that.

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  39. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    I guess everyone here has forgotten the slogan of the 2004 Presidential campaign about creating an “ownership society”. One key plank was increasing home ownership so Americans would have a stake in the future. This was advanced by George W. Bush. “We’re creating… an ownership society in this country, where more Americans than ever will be able to open up their door where they live and say, welcome to my house, welcome to my piece of property.” – President George W. Bush, October 2004
    The idea that we can fault a single party, as many here are trying to do, for the failure of the American financial system to create a stable, low risk and transparent financial environment is nonsense. Not only did Republicans have control of Congress for a good portion of the time risk was increasing, they voted for many of the same policies that Democrats did that increased risk.
    In addition, Republicans and Democrats agreed on our Fed Chairman though most of the time period, first with Volcker, appointed by Carter and re-appointed by Reagan, then Greenspan, appointed by Reagan and re-appointed by Clinton, and finally Bernanke, appointed by G.W. Bush and re-appointed by President Obama.
    From January 2001 to January 2009 Republicans held the reins on all of the major oversight agencies: including the SEC, FDIC, and an alphabet soup of other agencies. TARP was an invention of Paulson and Bernanke; and although I still think we HAD to do TARP, and agreed with Democrats that supported it because the alternative was the total collapse of the global financial system, it was bi-partisan approval that made it happen.
    Finally, the piece of legislation probably most responsible for the consolidation of the banking industry, the Gramm-Leach-Billey Act 1999, was passed by bi-partisan majorities of 343-86 in the House initially (Republicans 205–16; Democrats 138–69; Independent 0–1) and then after negotiations with the Senate to include financial and medical privacy clauses, by the Senate 90-8, and by the House 362-57. Two significant dissenting votes were John Dingell D-MI who warned that the legislation would cause banks to be come “too big to fail”, the first use of the term, and Bernie Sanders I-VT, who warned that the consolidation of the financial services industry would lead to loss of transparency.
    Perhaps we should get over the blame game–there is enough blame to go around–and work on the solutions, which in my opinion are transparency, accountability, oversight, de-centralization, and a return to higher savings rates and more realistic standards for lending. I like the Canadian system, 20% down for a home, with lending and income insurance.

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  40. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    Just as it took Nixon to go to China it will take Brown to negotiate a pension reform package. Brown did talk about pension reform during his campaign, numerous times, and it has been a cornerstone of his government reform agenda. Whether he can be successful or not does remain to be seen; but the process must begin somewhere. I would think that conservatives would be happy the process is starting.

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  41. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Well spoken Stephen
    To blame the Democrats for the housing crash and ignore the administration that had their hands on the wheel for the 7 years leadng up to it is ridiculous.
    It’s important to recognize that it was the Bush economic team that was in charge leading up to the crash.
    Bush and his team either didn’t know or ignored the warning signs that the housing bubble was about to burst.
    From the New York Times
    “We can put light where there’s darkness, and hope where there’s despondency in this country. And part of it is working together as a nation to encourage folks to own their own home.”
    – President George W. Bush, Oct. 15, 2002
    “Bush did foresee the danger posed by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the government-sponsored mortgage finance giants. The president spent years pushing a recalcitrant Congress to toughen regulation of the companies, but was unwilling to compromise when his former Treasury secretary wanted to cut a deal. And the regulator Bush chose to oversee them – an old school buddy – pronounced the companies sound even as they headed toward insolvency.
    As early as 2006, top advisers to Bush dismissed warnings from people inside and outside the White House that housing prices were inflated and that a foreclosure crisis was looming. And when the economy deteriorated, Bush and his team misdiagnosed the reasons and scope of the downturn. As recently as February, for example, Bush was still calling it a “rough patch.”
    The result was a series of piecemeal policy prescriptions that lagged behind the escalating crisis.
    “There is no question we did not recognize the severity of the problems,” said Al Hubbard, Bush’s former chief economic adviser, who left the White House in December 2007. “Had we, we would have attacked them.”
    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/21/business/worldbusiness/21iht-admin.4.18853088.html?pagewanted=all

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  42. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Todd
    I’m glad simple labeling gives you comfort. How do you classify Ron Paul and Libertarians? Also Barry Goldwater who believed in a womans right to choose and supported gays openly serving in he military. How about Richard Nixon who founded the EPA? How about Ronald Reagan who gave amnesty to 3 million undocumented immigrants.

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  43. George Rebane Avatar

    And that is why it is important to distinguish between Left/Right and Democrats/Republicans, so we can sweep Republicans with progressive penchants under the properly labeled tent, and vice versa. PaulE’s view that labels “dumb down” conversations is a fairly unique one that is rejected by the centuries of discussants of all political and religious hues. It is only the ones who don’t like to be assigned labels that identify their actions and statements, who protest on the futility or stupidity or … of using labels as efficient means to summarize the group membership of someone. We recall Sinclair Lewis’ famous statement on selling socialism in America.
    It is important to understand what a label means for someone using it, and that was the motivation for my recent Right/Left post. We note, with one exception, that no one on the Left wanted to touch elucidating the attributes offered. The song is old, the same, and tiresome; so the labels hold but are not always correctly used. To reject their use is beyond silly, since it forces the referencer to fully describe the referant every time the reference is made. And again, this is a barn already circled many times. The world accepts and intensely uses labels, suck it up, try to be precise, and get used to it.

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  44. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    PaulE, all the folks you mentioned are Republicans, they called themselves Republicans and I accept them as Republicans. We have a big tent. . We are happy to carry the label of Republican. How would you label the people the democrats running the last two nominating conventions who refused to let them speak to the body about them being pro-life? I call them democrats who are pro life but the democrats in charge called them traitors to the democrat party. Hmmm.

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  45. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Sorry Todd You lost me on this one. I don’t pay much attention to political conventions. Pretty much a festival of wankers in my book. Did the Republicans allow supporters of gay marriage to speak? I don’t have a clue and actually could care less but you were the one who brought this up for some reason. We were talking about Conservatives and I questioned whether you would consider Goldwater, Nixon, Ron Paul and Reagan conservatives based on their stated views on issues. I’m still curious about that.
    I won’t be an apologist for the Democratic Party. I have never been an active Democrat and don’t particularly care for either party. My personal views are varied and don’t fit into the convenient packaging you and George prefer.
    I consider myself a Green Libertarian because I believe in government only when necessary. If we as a culture systematically destroy the environment with our consumption and lifestyles and don’t naturally respect sustainability and leaving the earth in the same conditions for future generations then we need government to ensure a healthy earth which is essential for liberty and freedom. A bear doesn’t crap in his own back yard and neither should we. We may argue thresholds but if we were to have a discussion we would not disagree on principals. Where does that put me in your labeling system?

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  46. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    PaulE, sorry I am discussing things over your head. I am truly sorry for your apparent ignorance but I do understand. The topic was broached by you so maybe a review of your own comments and questions just a few comments ago will remind you of the topic. It was about labels and your abhorrence for them. Yet you call yourself be a label, a Green Libertarian, then you define it for us all. So, it appears you need to have a label then? The conventions are simply an example which I used to explain the hypocrisy of the left. And yes, the Log Cabin Republicans were allowed to speak at the convention unlike the pro-life democrats at theirs. You seem a bit confused in answering your own questions so perhaps a re-read of my comments will help.

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  47. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    Ben – thanks for the run down on classes. I notice you admit that the Great Society and the War On Poverty pushed by the left has just worked to keep one class in poverty as the conservatives have charged for years. The great part about this nation is that if you don’t like the ‘class’ you are in, you can move to another. Furthermore, technology has ensured that folks of any class now have the ability to be heard more than ever. The Occupy crowd forgot that freedom of speech does not mean that I have to listen. Making a nuisance of yourself is not conducive to having an intelligent dialog about how to get our economy going again. There is absolutely nothing new at the OWS gatherings. This is all just the same old left wing BS. Full of meaningless phrases: social justice, living wages, income equality…. There is never any explanation of who gets to define the terms and how they will enforce the outcomes without discarding our Constitutional rights.

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  48. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Sure Let’s have hundreds of labels to cover every nuance of political thought and variation. Kind of like the Tea Party which is sort of like sour dough starter. It started with one strain and nod has dozens of variations. Whatever works for you Todd and makes you feel comfortable.
    I’m still interested in whether you would consider Goldwater, Nixon, Reagan and Ron Paul Conservatives.
    Scott
    Are you hearing anything new from the current crop of Repub candidates?

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