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September 2011
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George Rebane

This Sunday, 11 September 2011, Nevada City hosts Constitution Day with a big parade and a day-long celebration of Americana in its streets, parks, and shops.  This has been a community tradition since 1967, drawing together local organizations, residents, and visitors who come from far and wide to witness a ‘home town classic’ celebrating our unique nationhood.  The day will have additional significance since it also marks the tenth anniversary of the attack on America by coordinated teams of Muslim terrorists.  (see Union article)

However, on the same day there is scheduled an alternative venue in half-hour away Penn Valley for those folks who would rather gather in a more Americana-free celebration called ‘MannaFest’ that proclaims ‘Community Unity NOW’.  It is advertized “to change Fear into Love & Compassion” with opening prayer and “ceremonies performed by: Maidu Indian Tribe Sierra Center of the Spiritual Living”.

This is the cynical progressive version of community unity that matches the sermons from the other side of their mouths decrying their role in fostering the Great Divide (search RR).

(The discerning reader will note another example of how spirituality and the transcendence of Man is selectively accepted as long as it is laundered of Christian tinges.  At other times the secular humanist makes sport of belief systems that reach for something beyond oblivion to inform and comfort our existence.  It is indeed the brave new world of yesteryear to which they want us to return – ‘This time we’ll do it right’.  Where will they build the new walls to keep us all in?)

[10sep2011 update]  Today’s Union in an article by Paul August reveals that the MannaFest ads for community unity were just a come-on for something much more political and serious.  What the gathering will really be is the “9/11 Worldwide Peace Festival” sponsored by the Peace Center of Nevada County.

To me this is a most cynical turn of events.  Not that we can’t continue having leftwing celebrations for peace; but scheduling such on 11 September 2011, and naming the event after the most dastardly and deadly surprise attack on the United States by a culture that is in a self-declared war on the west – an attack that left the streets of Islam’s cities filled with millions of Muslims screaming with joy, and deliriously celebrating what their fanatical suicidal brethren had accomplished with four hijacked airliners.  That all seems to me to be more than over the top and of a piece with the proposal to build the carefully named Cordoba Islamic Community Center and Mosque at Ground Zero.

One wonders the response in 1951 to the Japanese wanting to erect the Tora-Tora-Tora Shinto Temple and Community Center on Ford Island opposite the Arizona Memorial, and the attendance at local ‘December 7th Peace Festivals’.

It looks like this Penn Valley event was always planned for an audience of more than just ‘aging hippies’ as some have advised.  We are a changed country indeed.

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176 responses to “Community Unity – Liberal Version (updated 10sep2011)”

  1. Douglas Keachie Avatar
    Douglas Keachie

    How many gallons of aid and comfort as an Islamosymph will you buy at the gas pump today?

    Like

  2. Douglas Keachie Avatar
    Douglas Keachie

    Once it was established that the WMD’s were not there, say 2 years in, it was time to leave, if that was the rationale for going in.

    Like

  3. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Thank you Todd for the direct response to my statement.
    The Constitution requires a congressional declaration of war before the president can wage war.
    The Viet Namm war was specifically authorized by the Bay of Tonkin resolution which was a designed lie to get support from Congress for military action in the region. WMD’s was the primary reason for invading Iraq that was presented to Congress to gain support for our action. Those reasons were lies and deceptions hiding the real reasons for both wars which was strategic resources and posturing.
    Do we have an agreement that Constitutionally we need a Declaration of War to engage in a military invasion of a sovereign nation?
    Tonkin resolution
    http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/pentagon3/ps12.htm

    Like

  4. Douglas Keachie Avatar
    Douglas Keachie

    I get all of one hit for:
    “Tora-Tora-Tora Shinto Temple”
    Apparently this is some pet project belonging only to George Rebane.
    Are there any German Christian churches with special shrine outside the concentration camps of NAZI Germany?
    Dachau:
    The memorial site
    Memorial at the camp in 1997
    Aerial photo of the memorial in 2010
    Between 1945 and 1948 when the camp was handed over to the Bavarian authorities, many accused war criminals and members of the SS were imprisoned at the camp.
    Owing to the severe refugee crisis mainly caused by the expulsions of ethnic Germans, the camp was from late 1948 used to house 2000 Germans from Czechoslovakia (mainly from the Sudetenland). This settlement was called Dachau-East, and remained until the mid 1960s.[29] During this time, former prisoners banded together to erect a memorial on the site of the camp, finding it unbelievable that there were still people (refugees) living in the former camp.
    The display, which was reworked in 2003, takes the visitor through the path of new arrivals to the camp. Special presentations of some of the notable prisoners are also provided. Two of the barracks have been rebuilt and one shows a cross-section of the entire history of the camp, since the original barracks had to be torn down due to their poor condition when the memorial was built. The other 32 barracks are indicated by concrete foundations.
    The memorial includes four chapels for the various religions represented among the prisoners.
    The local government resisted designating the complete site a memorial. The former SS barracks adjacent to the camp are now occupied by the Bavarian Bereitschaftspolizei (rapid response police unit).[30]

    Like

  5. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Well said Greg.

    Like

  6. George Rebane Avatar

    BenE re 1148am – Am I being pilloried again for having posited thoughts that I never had?
    GregG re 144pm – Well said.

    Like

  7. RL Crabb Avatar

    Utah Phillips and George Rebane were/are both friends of mine. Both have some very radical tendencies at different ends of the spectrum. At times I had very big differences of opinion with both of them. They never made it easy on me. I always tried to return the favor.

    Like

  8. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Somehow my response te Greg doing the smackdown of PaulE was out of sequence. I noticed PaulE does his usual dodge by agreeing to something I said which I don’t have an idea what it is while never answering any of my questions. That debate technique makes you look silly PaulE. Or, maybe I am reading your lack of response wrong. maybe you don’t answer our questions because you can’t. We could therefor assume you are accepting our questions as the truth. Yes, that is it. Our questions to you are dodged because you know we have asked you to answer something you know is true and therefore you have decided to acquiesce to our logic by your silence. Thanks PaulE, now I know when and why you never answer.

    Like

  9. Douglas Keachie Avatar
    Douglas Keachie

    Contrary to Greg’s prior commentaries, I know I’m doing well when the other side does their best to pretend what I’ve written doesn’t exist.
    “Hey, hey
    RGJ,
    How much Islamosymph gas, did you buy today?”
    Loyal Americans will work for solar independence, and so shall future history record the rebirth of the nation.

    Like

  10. Douglas Keachie Avatar
    Douglas Keachie

    Is getting married and having a kid right out of high school yet another path to avoiding Vietnam service, utilized by one who is five years younger than I and had the advantage of watching us older dudes protest the stupid war enough so that he knew it was bad juju, to be avoided by any and all means possible? Besides, making babies is fun, especially the very first part…

    Like

  11. Greg Goodknight Avatar
    Greg Goodknight

    Paul, WMDs were one of about four of the stated reasons for resuming hostilities in Iraq, any one of which were sufficient under international law. However, none of them would have existed had we chosen not to get involved a decade earlier when Iraq decided to expand past its borders. Personally, I found the failure of Iraq to uphold the cease-fire agreement to be necessary and sufficient the second time around, but not for a virtually permanent occupation.
    WMDs was the issue that got the most traction, and it was oversold.
    The world would be better off now had the Islamists had to deal with their own failures in the ’90’s without “The Great Satan” to blame for their own shortcomings in the years following.

    Like

  12. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Todd, or anyone else
    Let’s try this
    Constitutionally do we need a Declaration of War to engage in a military invasion of a sovereign nation?

    Like

  13. Ben Emery Avatar

    Greg,
    Short memory isn’t an excuse. A state department memo showed that the infamous 16 words were false nearly two weeks before the 2003 SOTU. The documents were forgeries that the administration chose to ignore and went forward using the false claim to promote and secure support for an otherwise unjustifiable invasion.

    Like

  14. Greg Goodknight Avatar
    Greg Goodknight

    Ben, links to the “memo”, please. The State Department wasn’t exactly a neutral player in all of this. Remember State’s Armitage being the actual leaker in the Valerie Plame affair? Again, a bipartisan congressional investigation long after the fact found otherwise.
    Paul, a bill passed by Congress and signed by the President giving the President the authority to invade a sovereign nation if needed would seem to be equivalent.

    Like

  15. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Greg
    So that would be the Bay of Tonkin Resolution and the Iraq war resolution of which the Itaq’s possession of WMD’s was the main reason. This is supported by Sec of Defense Rumsfield in a recent interview he said.
    ” intelligence reports – now shown to have been false – that Iraq possessed so-called WMDs was the main reason for going in, Rumsfeld said.
    “No question it was the big one,” he said. Asked if the United States would not have invaded if the administration didn’t believe Iraq had the weapons of mass destruction, Rumsfeld said: “I think that’s probably right.”
    He criticized the source known as “Curveball” – an Iraqi defector who admitted his claims that Iraq possessed WMDs were false – but stopped short of condemning the U.S. intelligence community.
    http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/02/20/rumsfeld-wmds-werent-only-reason-for-war-in-iraq/http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/02/20/rumsfeld-wmds-werent-only-reason-for-war-in-iraq/
    I suggest reading this link to Fox news to learn more about “Curveball”
    http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/02/16/iraqi-im-proud-wmd-lies-led-war-iraq/
    George and I agree that the real reason for the invasion was strategic resources. In my opinion the whole resolution was intentionally deceptive to hide the real reason.
    In my opinion both resolutions were intentionally deceptive making the protestors of our actions champions for truth and honesty.

    Like

  16. George Rebane Avatar

    As I have stated before on these pages – given that it is in America’s interest to remain a/the world’s hegemon, then our prime foreign policy plank is to destabilize any and all up-and-comers who would challenge our hegemony in their parts of the world. This will from time to time require us to project military power, but it does not require us to win any engagements that are popularly called ‘wars’. There is, of course, an internal political cost to be paid for this that includes questions of culture-specific morality.
    (For what it’s worth, George Friedman of Stratfor agrees.)
    The two open questions are 1) can our interests be served by other than remaining hegemon, and if not 2) what internal moral parameters apply/restrict our ability to maintain our hegemony. The first question is imperative, the second is optional.

    Like

  17. Greg Goodknight Avatar
    Greg Goodknight

    Paul, the cease fire terms for Iraq I included that they were to follow the UN demands, and the UN went on to craft 17 (iirc) resolutions that the Baathists failed to heed. Including a demand that Iraq help prove their claims that all WMDs were destroyed.
    The cat and mouse games with inspectors were contrary to the UN resolutions, but they did effectively convince Iraqs neighbors that Iraq kept the goodies just in case. They walked a fine line hoping the US would figure out what the truth was.
    State Department sent a guy to Niger to ask if Iraqis has shopped for yellowcake, and that guy, send by the recommendation of his wife Valerie, was told “no”. Also, there was a faked document, but the best description of that thing’s effect was by comrade Christopher Hitchens, who wrote “The upshot was—follow me closely here—that a phony paper alleging a deal was used to shoot down a genuine document suggesting a connection. ”
    In fact, Hitch’s Fighting Words in Slate had a number of great articles on the subject. The quote above is from “Wowie Zahawie: Sorry everyone, but Iraq did go uranium shopping in Niger”.
    http://www.slate.com/id/2139609/

    Like

  18. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    I don’t have time to input on this very important question except that I would reverse the priority.

    Like

  19. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Greg
    I hear what you are saying and we can argue and compare links for weeks. Let me ask you this question. Assuming there was true concerns about WMD’s, do you believe the reasons stated in the resolution were the true reasons for invading Iraq.

    Like

  20. Greg Goodknight Avatar
    Greg Goodknight

    Paul, I expect you’d be perfectly willing to remain on the subject were you not losing your arguments. Read the Hitchen’s piece.
    Personally, I blame George HW Bush’s presidency for getting us into the area, and it was his Sphincter of State, James Baker, who made it clear we were going in at that time because of oil and American jobs. But in those days, the only protests were by Peace & Freedom types and Libertarians. Dems and R’s both loved it. Wave that flag.
    I blame Bush I even more for not finishing the bloody job, but it does appear the ex-CIA director turned President thought the Agency could work its magic and help a Iraqi coup d’etat decapitate the government. Unfortunately, Saddam understood the essence of Machiavellian theory and Stalinist tactics better than the CIA did.
    -Greg

    Like

  21. Greg Goodknight Avatar
    Greg Goodknight

    For some preemptive reading, check out comrade Hitchen’s “Clueless Joe Wilson: How did the CIA’s special envoy miss Zahawie’s trip to Niger?”
    “Take that permanent smirk off your face, Ambassador (and the look of martyrdom as well, while you are at it). It seems that your contacts in the Niger Ministry of Mines—the ones that your wife told the CIA made you such a good choice for the trip—didn’t rate you highly enough to tell you about the Zahawie visit. It would, interestingly, have been a name you already knew. But you didn’t even get as far as having to explain it away—or not until last week—because you were that far in the dark. It was left to Italian, French, and British intelligence to discover the suggestive fact and transmit it to Washington. And it’s been left to someone else, most probably in the Niger embassy in Rome, to produce a much later fabrication, either for gain or in order to discredit a true story. The forged account has no bearing at all on the authentic one: It bears the same relationship as a fake $100 bill does to a genuine bill. ”
    http://www.slate.com/id/2140058/

    Like

  22. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Greg
    I assume you feel that the case made for war by the Bush Admin was a valid reason for invasion and war so that position stands on it’s own. I’m not arguing with you, I just wanted to know where you stand so mission accomplished. You know where I stand so any further googling and mousing won’t change anything and is a waste of time. Yeah, you’re the winner.

    Like

  23. Ben Emery Avatar

    Greg,
    Link to memo
    http://www.nysun.com/pics/31062_2.php
    The link to the original article will not open so here is a another link that picked up the story.
    State Department Memo: ’16 Words’ Were False
    Opening paragraph
    “Sixteen days before President Bush’s January 28, 2003, State of the Union address in which he said that the US learned from British intelligence that Iraq had attempted to acquire uranium from Africa – an explosive claim that helped pave the way to war – the State Department told the CIA that the intelligence the uranium claims were based upon were forgeries, according to a newly declassified State Department memo. ”
    http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_jason_le_060417_state_department_mem.htm

    Like

  24. Ben Emery Avatar

    George,
    So you believe in American Empire and to keep that power collateral damage a.k.a. innocent civilian deaths/ destruction of social structure is justified?

    Like

  25. Brad Croul Avatar
    Brad Croul

    Vietnam was not our enemy. Vietnam was a pawn in a bigger, hegemonic power struggle between USSR, China and USA, and with France before that. It was not the protesting of the Vietnam War (aka, The American Invasion of Vietnam) by US citizens our own reasons that gave aid and comfort to the Vietnamese, it was the propaganda used by the Vietnamese (why were they our enemies?) of USA protestors that may have given aid and comfort. I am glad at the thought that the Vietnamese were comforted knowing that, at least, a few people in the USA were of sound mind and thought invading small tropical countries was not a very righteous thing to do just to prove who was the biggest hegemon master on the block. It seems it was a trivial pursuit anyway. Now it is a tourist destination and full of cheap laborers. We won after all, it would appear.

    Like

  26. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    George, it is fascinating to listen to the illogical of liberals. For instance, BenE’s last comment at 4:54 as usual goes to extremes of illogical. Because you state America should remain strong and should protect the citizens by remaining strong, the liberal asks if slaughtering civilians is OK. Now, having debated these nuts for many years, this tactic is SOP from their leftwing playbook. If you had said you favor a strong police presence on Broad Street to keep the scofflaws from attacking pedestrians, you would be accused of being a fascist. oops, they already have doe that, sorry. Anyway, these liberals simply believe they can talk to the head choppers and everything will be fine. I shake my head in amazement at their ignorance of life and history.

    Like

  27. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Todd
    There is nothing else you have to say. You believe the Bay of Tonkin resolution and the Iraq war resolution fulfilled the Constitutional requirements to authorize us going to war. You need say no more. Your position is clear. Thanks for the conversation.

    Like

  28. Greg Goodknight Avatar
    Greg Goodknight

    Ben, thank you for the link to info on the memo you were referring to, it was exactly as I expected.
    That information was handily demolished by the two pieces by Christopher Hitchens that I quoted and linked. Try reading them.
    Bush’s SOTU address claim, that British Intel believed Iraq was shopping for yellowcake uranium in Niger, remains literally true and incontrovertable. That Joe Wilson asked his buddies in Niger and wrote a memo to the contrary does not negate the fact that the Brit, Italian and French intelligence services came to a different conclusion. As did the US Congress.

    Like

  29. Greg Goodknight Avatar
    Greg Goodknight

    Paul, your desire to just cook the issue down to the regurgitation of the usual sound bites is your choice.

    Like

  30. Greg Goodknight Avatar
    Greg Goodknight

    BTW, a show of hands, please… Of those of you who are to the left of the Democratic Party center, how many of you expected the Obama administration to promptly shut down Guantanamo and bring charges against Bush & Cheney?

    Like

  31. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Greg
    I will be gone till Monday with little time to spend on this but when I return if you would like to engage in an in depth look at my contention that the Bush Admin cooked up false justifications for going to war in Iraq I will gladly engage you. My contention, and George agrees is that the real reason we went to war in Iraq is to secure strategic resources. Nowhere was that mentioned in the Iraq war resolution making it deceptive and devious.

    Like

  32. Douglas Keachie Avatar
    Douglas Keachie

    BTW, a show of hands, please…Of those supporting tax cuts for the rich, how many believe that these policies created any substantial numbers of good paying jobs (in this country, of course) over the last ten years?

    Like

  33. Ben Emery Avatar

    Greg,
    I went to the article and read it and what I read was a guy desperately trying to justify his support (born again neo-con) for the invasion. I also did a little research and found nothing that validates his claims. But I did find
    Larry C Johnson
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_C._Johnson
    Christopher Hitchens, Clueless in a Class by Himself
    http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/192/christopher-hitchens-clueless-in-a-class-by-himself/

    Like

  34. Greg Goodknight Avatar
    Greg Goodknight

    I see Ben has googled the article and found an obscure blog entry (two whole comments!) by someone who inartfully contradicts Hitchens.
    Hitchens as a neocon? He’s not a conservative of any sort, neo or otherwise. However, Ben, it is clear he isn’t of your tribe, and you may ignore him on that level if you need to.
    This is about tribalism, and the “Peace Center”‘s divisive choice on Sunday was as tribal as it gets.

    Like

  35. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    BenE calling Hitchens a neo-con! Now that’s rich. It is clear he does not know who he is.
    Keachie, I think everyone should pay less taxes even those rich people. The problem is spending.

    Like

  36. Douglas Keachie Avatar
    Douglas Keachie

    I thought the divisive cultural split between PFLAG and The Teeper Creatures in the parade Sunday won that award for the year.

    Like

  37. Douglas Keachie Avatar
    Douglas Keachie

    No, the problem is spenting. All the past spenting that Bush and the Raiders of the Lost Arc of the Socsecure funds is the problem. Arc is not mis-spelled, you see it goes with all the voters who cosined the raids, instead of vetoing them during the elections following each pillage. It takes quite a few pillages to reduce all the villages and villagers to peonage.

    Like

  38. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    I was in the balcony running sound and can testify that the TFLAG entry got as many cheers as the TP’s

    Like

  39. Ben Emery Avatar

    Greg,
    You picked a single article from a person who was a strong advocate of the Iraq invasion. You choose yours and I choose mine. Larry C Johnson was a distinguished CIA analyst and started that “obscure” blog that focuses on terrorism, intelligence, and politics. His blog, NoQuarterUSA, was one of the highest rated political blogs at the time. He was a republican that voted for President Bush in 2000.
    I know who Hitchens is and he has made a very interesting turn over the last decade.
    Would Rumination Regulars (RR) consider George W Bush a conservative? I wouldn’t, he is a neo-con. I believe it is RR who don’t know what they are talking about and need to a little more research.
    Definition of a neo-con.
    1
    a former liberal espousing political conservatism
    2

    a conservative who advocates the assertive promotion of democracy and United States national interest in international affairs including through military means
    Those who support and advocate the policies of PNAC are neo-cons.

    Like

  40. Ben Emery Avatar

    The question is still hanging out there RR; do you believe in American Empire and to keep that power collateral damage a.k.a. innocent civilian deaths/ destruction of social structure is justified?
    My point is look at our response from 19 terrorists who attacked the US. What would we do if a nation invaded the US and imposed martial law on US citizens? There is this saying that keeps popping up that it known as The Golden Rule or Ethic of Reciprocity.

    Like

  41. George Rebane Avatar

    BenE – IMHO and the reading of history, your “popping up” sayings are a bit naive when applied to sovereign nation states. Mores and values stop at national borders, and their conjunctions must be negotiated between parties. It was ever thus, and is more so in today’s world of changing empires and hegemonic dynamics. Nations act and react to serve their interests, and not on the basis of altruistic shibboleths that may apply only in one culture if even there.

    Like

  42. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Yeah, like what we did in Iran in 1952 creating a coup that ejected and executed a democratically elected leader replacing him with a dictator, the Shah of Iran. Guess what? It was all about oil. That was a golden moment in American history.
    This is from the CIA website no less
    “Most of the CIA’s acknowledged efforts of this sort have shown that Washington has been more interested in strongman rule in the Middle East and elsewhere than in encouraging democracy. The result is a credibility problem that accompanied American troops into Iraq and continues to plague them as the United States prepares to hand over sovereignty to local authorities. ”
    https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/csi-publications/csi-studies/studies/vol48no2/article10.html

    Like

  43. Ben Emery Avatar

    George,
    So your answer is yes. I wish you would just answer the questions straight forward instead of hiding behind flowery responses. So it is global manifest destiny. What is going on in the US has played itself out many times in world history. I put the naive label onto you my friend in believing the US can avoid repeating history despite its perpetual expansion of its empire in the name of national interest. If we want to continue our super power status we need to bring back manufacturing to the US, create energy independence through a variety of energy sources while eliminating our nearly $400 billion expense of foreign sources, and reduce our military influence over the globe. We spend more on defense than the rest of the planet put together.
    I believe that your last statement will not ring true within the next century or even two generations. We are seeing a shifting of a paradigm (fossil fuels, banking, war, water, food) that can no longer exist on its current path and when we hit that threshold the shift will come through massive collective suffering and what will emerge is a global cooperation. The question is whether we are going to have policies in place that allow us to make the transition relatively quickly or is it going to be a long and drawn out process. I choose the former. I encourage you to check out the book A New Golden Age http://02ae523.netsolhost.com/gapr.html

    Like

  44. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    George he still doesn’t get your statement after all the explanations. They don’t want to get it because they can’t. They are not smart enough to figure out that America is a unique place they happen to be born in instead of be grateful they are snarks. PaulE is hung up on Iran. During WW2, America and the allies used the Iranian roads to ferry supplies to our then ally, the USSR in its battle with the Nazi’s. When it was apparent the Nazi’s were going to be toast, Stalin decided to try and weasel into taking over Iran to gain a warm water port. He of course had done this to many other countries, even Estonia. Anyway the country became part of the “cold war” strategies. The thing Paul doesn’t get is the USSR would be there today and the country would contain 70 million little Stalin’s which I guess he doesn’t care about. He complains the US installed a dictator there, well, maybe and maybe not. The Shah was a secular fellow and not unlike the others rulers around the planet, governed with an iron fist, Well, PaulE and BenE got their wish and now we have the present day Iran ruled by religious nuts and a PM who thinks his savior will be jumping out of a well soon. The Shah never had aspirations beyond the borders of Iran as does the present day rulers. I think Paul’s history lessons need some updates and critical thinking.

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  45. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Oops, one last point. BenE thinks hegemony means the Americans taking over the place. Physically I guess. I see it as we stay powerful through our economic and military might so other countries leave any thought of conquering us under their pillows. We have no desire for more dirt which the liberals don’t understand. There is no physicasl manifest destiny, only hegemony through strength to be unmolested here.

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  46. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Iran is just one example of the US using it’s military power to topple democracies throughout the world. It’s Imperialism pure and simple. We have supported some of the worst dictators kn the world all the time saying the US is for the peace and freedom of the world. Ron Paul again comes to mind.
    “The inability of taxpayers to fund both guns-and-butter has not deterred those who smell the glory of war. Notoriously, great nations fall once their appetite for foreign domination outstrips their citizens’ ability or willingness to pay. We tried the guns-and-butter approach in the 1960s with bad results, and the same will happen again as a consequence of the current political decision not to cut back on any expenditure, domestic or foreign. Veto nothing is current policy! Tax, borrow, and print to pay the bills is today’s conventional wisdom. The problem is that all the bills eventually must be paid. There’s no free lunch, and no free war. The economic consequences of such a policy are well known and documented. Excessive spending leads to excessive deficits, higher taxes, and more borrowing and inflation — which spells economic problems that always clobber the middle class and the poor.”

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  47. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    We are not an imperialist country, you are simply wrong. I do agree with your opinion on spending in the last post.
    Iran nationalized the oil industry in the early 50’s which was owned in partnership and under treaty between th e English and Persia. I would expect you might defend yourself if someone came in and took your undies.

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  48. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    That’s correct and we intervened causing a coup and ousting a Democratically elected leader replacing him with a friendly dictator. Why was it our business to come to Britain’s rescue? . Imperialism pure and simple
    Who pays for our wars Todd? What is it about Ron Pauls piece on spending that you disagree with?

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  49. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Here is Websters definition of imperialism
    the policy, practice, or advocacy of extending the power and dominion of a nation especially by direct territorial acquisitions or by gaining indirect control over the political or economic life of other areas; broadly : the extension or imposition of power, authority, or influence
    Sounds like American foreign policy to me

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