Rebane's Ruminations
July 2011
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George Rebane

“Norway's murders shouldn't be an excuse to shut down debate over multiculturalism and the failure of many Muslims to assimilate to Europe's cultural norms. British Prime Minister David Cameron and French President Nicolas Sarkozy have broken taboos by speaking sensibly on the subject. Democracies need to address their anxieties openly, rather than push the political debate underground where the likes of an Anders Breivik can let them stew into a rationale for violence.”  26jul11 WSJ

The recent terror in Norway is an event that again has altered our times.  But it is not yet clear that its dissection in the aftermath will serve to illuminate these times.  This is made amply clear in the various media venues that serve commentary and discussion.  The event most certainly has highlighted the radically different views held by various ideologically defined cohorts, and in the US it is another timber thrown into the fire that continues to consume the bonds holding the country together.

This is no more visible than on these very pages as documented in the comment stream for ‘Norway Terror’.  For the more attentive reader, it is obvious that much of the generated heat comes from the discussants not taking the time (or being able?) to understand that they are semantically imprecise and all over the map when presenting their views.  Semantically orthogonal aspects of the case are co-joined willy nilly and the discussion wanders in random circles, resolving nothing, including where people stand on the related ideas and issues.

In the hope that more commenters here are people of good will, people who want to use this venue to clarify, dispute, or confront each other’s ideas instead of continuing to play ad hominem ‘gotcha’, I offer the following (no doubt incomplete) list of semantically orthogonal notions about the Norway tragedy, and invite others to add to it their own discoveries as they meditate on the greater dimensions of this tragedy.

Then in no particular order, some semantically orthogonal (or independent) areas that come under the larger umbrella of ideas and notions arising from Norway’s terror are –

1. The right of a culture to endure and thrive in its homeland,
2. The right of a culture to spread trans-nationally through (assimilating, insular) settlements,
3. The historical impact of multi-culturalism (cultural mixing) on individual cultures,
4. The status and objectives of the current multi-nationally based Islamic jihad,
5. The status and objectives of non-Islamic needs for energy from Islamic lands,
6. The social impact of EU immigration policy,
7. Major themes in today’s European acceptance/confrontation with Muslim immigrants,
8. Norway’s immigration policy,
9. The behavior of Muslims in Norway,
10. The formal political structure of Norway (major, minor political parties and recognized nationalistic and trans-nationalistic movements),
11.  Norway’s sub-rosa political structure (secret organizations, terror cells, etc),
12.  The recent sentiments of ethnic Norwegians toward immigration in general,
13.  The recent sentiments of ethnic Norwegians toward its Muslim population,
14.  Legitimate and illegitimate means of opposing cultural dilution,
15.  The ideas in Breivik’s manifesto/compendium,
16.  Assessment of Breivik’s stated objectives,
17.  Assessment of Breivik’s means (the terror killings),
18.  Assessment of Breivik’s sanity and/or mental state,
19.  Impact of extra-national political movements and policies on Norway,
20.  The political future of Europe,
21.  The ethnic future of Europe,
22.  The future of western culture in Europe,
23.  What the Breivik massacre reveals about American politics,
24.  New and beneficial policies for Norway,
25.  New and beneficial policies for America.

If a discussant is unwilling to recognize how these notions stand on their own, then it should be his job to establish, identify, and defend any co-joinings in his arguments.  If a discussant doesn’t understand any of this, then it is better for all if he continues to study the matter and remains a passive reader of the debate until the ‘Aha!’ occurs.

Posted in , , ,

139 responses to “Discussing Norway and Breivik”

  1. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    I see the rabid dogs of leftism go apoplectic when they claim kinship with Islam and call themselves atheists and they are called on it. Now how is that possible? The reason it came up was because SteveF brought it up. My questions were for him yet his clone SteveE came to his stead. George’s list is being avoided by the libs here because it is too deep for them to understand and comment on.
    Regarding military service. I did not serve in the military. The difference between me and the others is I support our military they don’t. I appreciate their sacrifice, they don’t. I respect people like George and Russ who fought for me and my freedom, they don’t.

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  2. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Yes Todd, you support them but wouldn’t put yourself in harms way preferring to have others to do dirty work for you. Were you of military age during the Vietnam War?.

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  3. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    PaulE did you serve? You were age eligible for Vietnam. I was in the first lottery and had a ow number, 326. I was never called but was 1A.

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  4. George Rebane Avatar

    Gentlemen, I’m getting desperate in trying to maintain RR as a forum for discussing stimulating and timely ideas instead of a playpen for petulant kids who don’t like each other but are old enough for the AARP. As you see, even wildly tangential notions are tolerated here, but the mudball madness has got to stop. I’ll try something else; please forgive my clumsy efforts.

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  5. Mike Thornton Avatar

    George:
    [deleted snarky comment]

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  6. Brad Croul Avatar
    Brad Croul

    “George’s list is being avoided by the libs here because it is too deep for them to understand and comment on.” -What is your excuse, Todd? I did not see one comment on this topic by you that was on topic. All your comments are name-calling attacks on other guests with whom you do not see eye-to-eye with.
    George,
    I see over half of the 25 talking points you listed as being linked to cultural differences. These cultural differences are really more about religion than the kind of clothes we wear, or what kinds of foods people like to eat in different cultures.
    I see it as people just being suspicious of “strangers in the hollow”. My theory is that people with these tendencies are more conservative, less well educated, and like things as they “always were”.
    Breivik states that he has an “equivalent” of 7 years of post high school study under his belt. What I think he missed is actually being with other “strangers” in institution of higher learning. Instead, I think he spent years holed up in his basement reading only about non-culturally related stuff and playing video games.
    People need to get out more and travel to different places to see that we are more alike than not.

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  7. Dixon Cruickshank Avatar
    Dixon Cruickshank

    Amazing just amazing – not 1, not even a hint of a comment on Georges 25 questions – yet we are on religion – which had nothing to do with the act in the first place – read Georges updated link and try and comment, it is from Europe – BTW thats where this happened

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  8. Dixon Cruickshank Avatar
    Dixon Cruickshank

    BTW the gentleman that wrote the piece in the link is quoted in the manifesto

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  9. Mike Thornton Avatar

    Being TJ on RR “means never having to say you’re sorry”.
    (removed for being truthful, again)

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  10. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    Hey George, I just mentioned that I am an atheist. The topic here is about religion. It was Todd who decided to attack that. A lot of the fear of Islam is about its threat to Christianity. If you see religion as an tangential issue I’m not sure what this is really all about.

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  11. Douglas Keachie Avatar

    It’s probably just a regional folklore variation, but 326 would have been considered a “high” number, not a low one. I believe mine was 122, and the day I hit the Oakland Induction Center in a nice suit and tie, worked my way up to the hearing checking section, told the dude of my situation and got him to test me, about a year in advance of actually call up, I failed it miserably. About the happiest day of my life, up til then. I-Y, which is halfway towards 4F. Being hard of hearing and going out “on patrol,” just doesn’t work so good.

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  12. George Rebane Avatar

    BradC, your points are clear. I would just remind us all that the more important attributes through which a culture is seen include language, literature, art, science, traditions, religion, education, common history, etc before we come to clothing and food, which, of course, also reflect through a culture.
    People overwhelmingly accept that what they most want to preserve in their social environment is their culture. As I have written on these pages, a strong culture encodes the values and mores of a people that also lets them reliably predict each other’s behavior in the affairs of the day. This is a great efficiency since it frees individuals to work and explore confidently within known norms, and also know when they are getting close to established boundaries.
    It goes without expansion that not all cultures are of equal benefit to their members, and some are simply stifling, bordering on ever-present terror for their maintenance. Anthropologists tell us that the Pacific islanders maintained their various cultures through a class hierarchy based on systems of ever present taboos the violation of which brought on draconian punishments. In the modern day, the USSR replicated such cultural attributes.
    But coming full circle, culture is still the recognized controller of societies, and also its greatest differentiator. Extinguishing established cultures has become one of the top priorities of a nascent autocracy, and an absolute must of a tyranny. It was Rome that last recognized the empire’s peace by letting conquered cultures remain in place as long as proper tribute was rendered unto Caesar. Stalin and Mao would have no part of it as they established the USSR and PRC. The state defined the common culture which reached into every nook and cranny of the region governed. The cheek-by-jowl European cultures all know this, and fear their loss.

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  13. George Rebane Avatar

    SteveF, you’ve told us before that you’re an atheist. And I’m sure you find it a blessing, as we all do, to firmly believe in something.
    The topic here does include religion since it is a prime attribute of the colliding cultures in Europe. And I agree that Christians fear Islam because they believe what Islam says and demonstrates about its tolerance for other religions in lands where it is dominant.

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  14. Douglas Keachie Avatar

    “Amazing just amazing – not 1, not even a hint of a comment on Georges 25 questions – yet we are on religion – which had nothing to do with the act in the first place – read Georges updated link and try and comment, it is from Europe – BTW thats where this happened”
    The word culture occurs over and over again in the 25 questions. Religion is a major subcomponent of culture. Islam and Muslim occur at least 7 times in the questions, directly referenced.
    He killed the children of those he believed were bringing in people of a different culture, with a different religion, their religion being a prominent feature of his concerns. Somebody is not paying very close attention here.
    Most of us, even Todd, do know where Europe is. One of the requirements in 8th grade Latin was to draw a map of the entire Roman Empire from memory.

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  15. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    It seems America has been the great experiment for the melting pot of people’s. It worked for a long time and it was a simple contract when you came here legally. Learn the language, don’t be on the dole, work hard, realize the dream of bettering your life in a culture we thought you would join. Well, over the last fifty years, the left has undermined that and has balkanized America and put everyone at each others throats. I saw it in local government when we were required by higher governments to bend over and take it or else.
    America’s strength is our peoples desire to be Americans, not some hyphenated American. Hyphens are for keeping track and providing a mechanism for punishment. When liberals justify their divisiveness by evoking PC, we have to resist them at every turn. They had all the media and we have now broken their hegemonic power. They don’t like it so we get to see them lie and cheat to win. We see liberals on this very thread practicing that set of techniques. This discussion went to religion because the liberal atheists have tried their darnedest to make some moral equivalency between the peaceful and loving Jesus and a religion of violence, Islam.

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  16. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Todd
    I served six years in the Air Force Reserves between 1968 and 1974. I’m surprised someone with your convictions didn’t volunteer.

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  17. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Paul. So you were with Bush in Alabama? I thought you denigrated him for being in the reserves. Hmmm.
    Yeah, I guess I could have volunteered but I did not. I got married and had a kid right out of HS. You know, we hicks here in Nevada County. At least I didn’t marry my cousin. BTW, did you see action in Vietnam?

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  18. Douglas Keachie Avatar

    “This discussion went to religion because the liberal atheists have tried their darnedest to make some moral equivalency between the peaceful and loving Jesus and a religion of violence, Islam. ”
    Todd, please review the churchtower sniper sequences from “Saving Private Ryan.”
    I might add that I do not even think of that film as a movie. It’s way too close to being some sort of deja vu flashfurtherback, based on the Europe I traveled in 1955 – 56. It was a stunningly emotional experience for me to “see” what had happened 10 to 15 years earlier.

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  19. Steve Enos Avatar
    Steve Enos

    Georeg posted… “OK gentlemen, you’ve provided the unfortunate thread to the ‘atheist detour’ which I apparently missed. My apologies”.
    Apology accepted George.
    Maybe next time, before you post a personally directed claim like “you look as if you don’t know what’s going on in this comment stream” you will read the comment thread in question.
    Now back to the topic at hand.

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  20. Dixon Cruickshank Avatar
    Dixon Cruickshank

    Glad my reference to the 25 comment outburst about atheist got you to go read them to prove me wrong – and even acknowledge the topic and describe the reason he actually did it – which I brought up yesterday
    Yes as george is trying to point out – it appears to be all about culture – he wants Norway to be Norway not a western sunburb of the mid-east

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  21. Douglas Keachie Avatar

    “I guess I could have volunteered but I did not. I got married and had a kid right out of HS.”
    As far as I know, many folks get married and have kids right out of HS, and still sign up. Of course it would have been a deferment qualifier back then…

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  22. Steve Enos Avatar
    Steve Enos

    Dixon posts… “it appears to be all about culture – he wants Norway to be Norway not a western sunburb of the mid-east”.
    As I recall from reading a lot about American history the Native American’s, the Indigenous people that lived all across the USA when the European’s first arrived and then wiped them and their culture out had a similar position.
    The Native American’s wanted America to be America, not a western suburb of Europe.

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  23. Dixon Cruickshank Avatar
    Dixon Cruickshank

    You are very correct and I almost brought that up as well. So you also get the point that George is trying make and apparently agree

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  24. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Dixon, nice trap.
    Keachie, I never had a deferment, I was 1A. So did you serve in the military?

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  25. JimS Avatar
    JimS

    Briefed by the indigenous scouts the soldiers closed
    There are many streamside camps
    Half of the ponies are out
    It will be an easy take

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  26. Steve Enos Avatar
    Steve Enos

    How nice tha Todd attacks and insults Paul Emery for his six years of service to our Country:
    “Todd, I served six years in the Air Force Reserves between 1968 and 1974. I’m surprised someone with your convictions didn’t volunteer”.
    Posted by: Paul Emery | 27 July 2011 at 02:18 PM
    “Paul, So you were with Bush in Alabama? I thought you denigrated him for being in the reserves. Hmmm. Yeah, I guess I could have volunteered but I did not. I got married and had a kid right out of HS. You know, we hicks here in Nevada County. At least I didn’t marry my cousin. BTW, did you see action in Vietnam?”
    Posted by: Todd Juvinall | 27 July 2011 at 02:25 PM
    George, you got a real gem in Todd here!

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  27. bill tozer Avatar
    bill tozer

    My, religion is a touchy subject for some, and Islam appears more touchy and taboo to even discuss. What is Juan Williams new book called?…oh yeah, Muzzled. Remember years ago I was watching Book Review on C-SPAN when the author said that 30% of the Soviet Union was Islamic, mostly all that 30% in its southern east. Does Georgia ring a bell? Opps, can’t talk about it. Why can’t we have a discussion on how the Muslim culture fails to inseminate into Western European culture or the obviously clash when it comes to women’s rights, democracy, the value of the individual, etc. Heck, even Tony Blair is yakking about it in reasoned words and France has banned the berka. Yeah, I spelled berka wrong, proof I must be a racist. I have known God-haters throughout my life. Mostly good folks until the “G” word comes up. Like fingernails on the chalkboard to them. Throws em into a tizzy. They love to reach into their playbook and bring up the Crusades or the treatment of the Native Americas as proof certain that Christianity is bad. Never fails. Ok, the Crusades lasted how many decades and about 200,000 people were killed, give or take. That was bad. The atheists like Stalin murdered in cold blood about 9 million souls. Atheist Chairman Mao killed about 20 million folks, none for religious reasons. The Killing Fields in Cambodia? Add together the minor dictators like the cannibal Amin in Ethiopia along with countless atheists throughout history and the Crusades begin to look like a grade school pushing match on the playground. OK, I get it. Muslims are good, Christians are bad. At least you intelligent bloggers are leaving the Jews alone……until some Muslim starts firing missiles on Israeli school children or some wacko blows up a senior citizens hang out in Jerusalem. Then we must show extreme restraint cause Muslim equals good, Jews Christians, Western Civilization equals bad, very bad.

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  28. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Todd
    I had a problem because Bush bailed early from the National Guard. He probably had connections. No I didn’t see action in Viet Nam. There were four units of our type on the West Coast. Two were activated and did serve over there. My unit was never called to active duty.
    By the way, supporting the illegal war in Iraq is not supporting our troops.

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  29. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Bill, right on the mark.
    SteveE, did you serve in the military?

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  30. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Paul, my comment was tongue in cheek and I appreciate you answering it anyway. I actually respect your service to the country.

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  31. George Rebane Avatar

    Ahh, to mingle among angels.
    Not sure how the fate of American Indians at the hands of Europeans and Americans should enter our discussion. But they were overwhelmed by cultures superior to them in about every dimension that is important for survival. Is someone here attempting to draw an analogue to Europeans in the face of their Islamic onslaught? How should the caucasian conquest of the Americas inform us on what is happening today?

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  32. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    George I like your history lesson on the Mongols and their conquests and the mix they created through overwhelming force on Europe and Russia. That ay ne a good comparison.

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  33. Dixon Cruickshank Avatar
    Dixon Cruickshank

    I can see the point – it in fact was a culture war kinda – although we can say we are the superior culture we are also at the same time being disarmed by the left. They use terror and bombs, we use pleading rhetoric and welfare to appease
    Hey SteveE agreed with you on that culture part using it, and hasn’t been heard from since – thats worth something.

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  34. Steve Enos Avatar
    Steve Enos

    Todd asked me:
    “SteveE, did you serve in the military?”
    Posted by: Todd Juvinall | 27 July 2011 at 04:29 PM
    Todd… no. Many of my family members have/did. I was too young for the draft and Viet Nam. Missed that by a couple of years.
    But I have severed in a number of other ways where my life and the lives of others I served with were in harms way in service to others.
    I worked as a wildland and structure firefighter for over a dozen years and I lost friends and coworkers in that period. My Engine Capt. was over run by a reburn on a Humboldt Co. fire and spend many months in the Chico Burn Center as a result. I started my firefighting career working with Tony Clairbut, Tony is now Chief of the GVFD… it’s a small world.
    As a firefighter I did a number of technical cliff rescues, saved homes, did an endless number of medical emergency runs, rescued a few folks from burning buildings and on two occasions directly saved a human life.
    I served my community as a Deputy Sheriff and as a Federal Drug Enforcement officer. That involved putting my life and personal safety at risk for the greater good time and time again. I have been shot at, stabbed at, attacked, have dealt with explosives at MJ grows and meth labs, but the most dangerous seemed to be dealing with domestic disputes.
    When the twin towers were attacked on 9/11 it was the firefighters and law enforcement officers (and some other brave folks) that ran into the twin towers as others ran out. Firefighters and law enforcement go towards the danger while others flee, that’s the job and the commitment we have.
    I have and always will have a strong commitment and the deepest respect for my fellow firefighter brothers and fellow law enforcement officers for their selfless service. Far too many have given their lives while trying to protect others.
    So while I didn’t serve in the military I did serve the greater community good as a firefighter and law enforcement officer, protecting lives and property and putting my life on the line to do so.
    In addition both you and I have been elected to public office. That’s a form of community service, not on the same level as serving in the military or law enforcement but we both took that step out of our shared commitment to serve the community. So we at least have that in common.

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  35. Brad Croul Avatar
    Brad Croul

    “1. The right of a culture to endure and thrive in its homeland,” – This was not US policy regarding Native Americans for the last two centuries.
    “2. The right of a culture to spread trans-nationally through (assimilating, insular) settlements,” – This was OK as a national policy regarding Native Americans by the soon-to-be dominant Western European culture with its (strange to the Indians) religions, and conquest of other cultures during our Empire Building phase (Pacific Islanders, for example), but I do not sense that this idea works both ways for most Americans who are content with the way things worked out over the last 200 years (and Norwegians like Breivik) when it comes to large scale immigration by people who then become militant about the their preexisting cultural identity in the host country.
    I did not notice any talking points regarding the economic impact of immigration on jobs and social services but increased competition for jobs and social services is often cited as a cause of anti-immigration dissent.

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  36. George Rebane Avatar

    Gentlemen, may I ask you to move all ‘mine is bigger than yours’ conversations to private emails. I think the rest of us have seen enough.

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  37. George Rebane Avatar

    BradC, thank you. I believe you are correct in your points 1 and 2. That said, how do we assess the rights of the Indians in their feeble (but heroic?) attempts to maintain their homelands and cultures against the encroaching white man?
    Re the economic impact of immigration – that could be expanded under #19 and could also form its own orthogonal item. I have not seen any concerns about immigrants to Europe (especially Muslims) taking away European jobs. Europe is a contracting demographic and needs to either increase worker count and/or worker productivity. The complaint about Muslims in wealthy countries like Germany and Norway is that so many of them go onto the public dole as they settle into their insular enclaves.

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  38. Steve Enos Avatar
    Steve Enos

    I’m more than happy to stay on topic George. I was responding to Todd’s off topic question.
    “Someone” here is the king of off topic attack posts that send the discussion off track.

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  39. bill tozer Avatar
    bill tozer

    OK, I will take a stab at #8, Norway’s immigration policy. Don’t have a clue. I do believe that each sovereign nation has the right to secure its own borders and establish immigration policy as it sees fit…unless it comes to the USA, which the UN thinks our generous policy is wrong. But, I digress per normal. Norway, as all Western European nations, has a fairly open door policy. Now, new cultures do present some problems. Remember the Italian gunboats turning away thousands of Albanians a few years back? France has enclaves of Muslim “ghettos” where even the French police dare not venture into, less riots and burning cars result. After Vietnam, my brother tried to emigrant to New Zealand to raise his family in peace. Very hard to get into. Had to be white and had to have a skill on their needed labor list. So, he became a medical technologist and a lab chemist and still could not get in. Just because somebody wants to emigrant to a country does do mean they can. So, Europe is having a clash of cultures with its Muslim immigrants. Sure, there are always going to be the Timothy McVays, the Arizona shooter, the military base shooter shouting “God is great” as he murdered US soldiers, and the wacko in Norway. My favorite city in the Western Hemisphere is Vancouver, BC. 30% Asian and your are more likely to hear Mandarin than French. Most domestic workers are from Sri Lanka, more Sushi bars on the corners than Starbucks, filled with Hindus, Iranians, and polite folks from everywhere….and they all speak English. Even people speaking in their native tongues will stop and reply in English when asked for directions. The culture of this vibrant city has molded into one, despite its huge diversity. Why? Don’t know, but they seem to have sidestepped the problems old Europe is currently facing.

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  40. George Rebane Avatar

    Thank you BillT. Wikipedia has a good summary of immigration in Norway.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Norway
    Your report of Vancouver is intriguing; a city that I had forgotten until you brought it up. I have similar memories (Victoria included) and would like for us to ‘buy’ some of it if they’re able to can it. It definitely is worth more study on how they do it up there.
    However, cities like Vancouver and Victoria are not places where distinct cultures survive. They, like New York and Hong Kong, are places where cultures come to meld into new almalgams, some quite distinct in their own right.

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  41. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    In my humble view I think the world is getting reshaped into smaller particles. Over the world’s history peoples and conquerors have tried to reign as many people and as much land as they could grab, creating large empires. Since the demise of the communist USSR, we have seen countries breaking off there and in Europe. Why is that? Because “birds of a feather flock together”. It is natural for this to be. Humans want to be around familiar people like them. America is really the first country that tried to let everyone in only asking them to become Americans. The Romans let people become Romans and many Roman parts stayed in those conquered people’s lives, but as we see now, Europe and North Africa and the Middle East still balkanized. France was filled with Frenchmen, Azerbaijan by Azerbaijanies Anyway, Norway and other countries that allow unfettered immigration without the assimilation into the base culture will eventually fall apart. In the USA and Canada and Mexico, the natives were overrun and the continent peopled by others. It was accomplished, rightly or wrongly by force and that is the history of the planet. I don’t think that will change.

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  42. George Rebane Avatar

    “In my humble view I think the world is getting reshaped into smaller particles.” That is what my readings tell me Todd. Sociologists are now publishing “ideal size” of countries and communities – a notion previously seldom heard. These come in at 20K to 50K for built up communities, and countries of the order of 5 million. (Norway is about 5 million.)

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  43. Michael Anderson Avatar
    Michael Anderson

    And thus we get to “The Great Divide.” Well done, everyone.

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  44. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Just look at the stats of our union. The most populous states seem to be the most screwed up. The least, less so. California has people from every country on the planet and they all seem to be living in China Town, Little Saigon, Koreatown and Russians in Citrus Heights. We went through terrible violence and self destruction trying to desegregate our country, even busing kids across towns and cities to force people to mix and what happened? Billions wasted becasue the people still figured a way to stay with their like. This is the force that will make smaller entities and America may face this someday if the PC police are in charge. I have always marveled at our country as one that welcomed people, legally of course, but the government force of trying to make people be the same will never work. People have to have the freedom to decide that.

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  45. Michael Anderson Avatar
    Michael Anderson

    Todd, what’s your opinion on lunch counters?

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  46. Larry Wirth Avatar
    Larry Wirth

    Jeez, George, someone forget to learn ‘ya not to poke animals in their cages with sticks?
    Unlike most, I had a considerable education in Islaic history, art, literature and culture. Loved the art and architecture, literature was missling. The culture and religion were abhorrent and don’t bother discussing the latter if you’ve not read the Koran.
    Before some clown asks, I served in the US Army, 1965-71 and believe it one of the most important periods of my life. I went in a liberal and came out a conservative. Would that all Americans could have the same experience.

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  47. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    What are your opinions on lunch counters Michaela?

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  48. Michael Anderson Avatar
    Michael Anderson

    Well Todd, I am generally in favor of them. They provide tasty food to millions, most of the stools are fairly comfy, and the gals behind the counter are quite garrulous.
    But I asked you first, so your punt is a tad lame.
    No matter. Let’s proceed.
    Here’s a list, in a random and uncertain order, of my opinions on lunch counters:
    1. There are many good ones in Nevada County. My favorite is Humpty Dumpty, better known as “The Dump” or “The Dumpster.”
    2. Even though lunch counters are owned by private business persons, those owners have to follow various rules and regulations. For example, the county Health Dept. needs to be able to inspect the cooking area to make sure things are A-OK.
    3. I wish lunch counters were more liberal in their substitution rules, i.e. in the breakfast special I’d sure like to have tomato slices instead of toast at no additional charge. But I recognize that I am free to take my business to another lunch counter that might be able to accommodate my needs, based upon the free market.
    4. I am glad that due to constitutional rulings, private business people are compelled in our civilized society to offer tasty food to all persons, regardless of their race, creed, color, or sexual orientation.
    5. I wish all lunch counters in Nevada County paid payroll taxes for their employees instead of paying them under the table. This is a rampant abuse in this county and it needs to be fixed ASAP.
    I could add more, but I’ll start with this short list.
    Your turn Todd…

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  49. Douglas Keachie Avatar

    @Todd, what part of me being ranked I-Y, almost a 4F, did you not understand?
    You may have been self nominated as a potential 1-A, but as your number was so high, I would doubt you were ever called, even for a physical, so how would you even know?
    No, I never served in the military, as my poor hearing disqualified me at the starting gate. My dad and uncle were both captains in the Army, and a distant relation got a distinguished service cross in WWI. My cousin, a cryptography expert, with a top secret security clearance, disappeared one day while out sailing on the Black Sea, during the 1970’s. The boat was found empty, the suspicions were that a Rooski sub got him.

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  50. Brad Croul Avatar
    Brad Croul

    United Lunch Counters of America – nobody eats for free!

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