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George Rebane

‘This Impeachment Is Different – and More Dangerous’ writes Lawrence Lessig in Politico.  He is currently the Roy L. Furman Professor of Law and Leadership at Harvard Law School, and according to my lights tilts a bit to the left.  But he has penned an insightful piece that more or less flies in formation and abets Rebane Doctrine on the Great Divide (you know, confirmation bias and all that).

Lessig correctly argues that the current impeachment imbroglio is not a rehash of America’s past impeachments.  Today, the plethora of politically polarizing media have so divided the country that both sides are totally sustained in their beliefs without even considering whether there is any middle ground remaining, and, if so, should we seek it out.  He points out that past impeachments were carried out by elite cadres operating, more or less, out of the public glare.  The impeachers were not pored over by the public, whose changing attitudes were not constantly apparent to the impeachers.  Today, Americans have a choice on how to view the impeachment process, and their attitudinal temperature is taken multiple times a day by countless polls.


Well, actually the Nixon Watergate scandal was followed through the big three and NPR outlets, but then everyone had pretty much the same picture of what was going on.  There was one basic ground truth which was broadly accepted.  Today “as information channels have multiplied, real “broadcast democracy”—the shared and broad engagement with a common set of facts —has disappeared. An abundance of choice means fewer focus on the news, and those who do are more engaged politically, and more partisan. No doubt, there is more published today about impeachment across a wide range of media than before, but it lives within different and smaller niches.”

And due to this “abundance of choice” with less “focus on the news”, the strongly divided attitudes “will have a profound effect on how this impeachment will matter to Americans.”  Neither side will be sharing any common ground over which to view the proceedings, understand the facts, and distinguish between allegations, perceptions, presumptions, inferences, …, and then what used to be known as evidence.

Holman Jenkins at the WSJ makes a strong case (here) for there being no chance for common ground when he goes through an analysis of Adam Schiff’s impeachment inquiry report wherein its author paints the progressives’ picture of what went down with lavish and profound lies.  Schiff is a politician profiting from the polarization that needs to be maintained.  Take as an example the Mick Mulvaney news conference that is now totally misrepresented in the lamestream – “A media transcript plainly shows that acting White House chief of staff Mick Mulvaney was not referring to a Ukraine quid pro quo when he said politics will influence foreign policy and that critics should “get over it.” Ambassador Gordon Sondland merely “presumed” that Mr. Trump sought a quid pro quo from Ukraine. Why falsely characterize these men’s statements, as the Schiff report does, when doing so is unnecessary to convince anyone that Mr. Trump nevertheless envisioned a quid pro quo?”

And even more astounding in Schiff’s dim assessment of the intellect of his true believing constituents, we have – “Mr. Schiff claims Mr. Trump delayed “critical military aid” to Ukraine, but offers no evidence that the aid was critical. (The missiles discussed in Mr. Trump’s supposedly incriminating call with Ukraine’s president were not even part of the holdup.) He insists Mr. Trump’s dealings undermined U.S. national interests, but a president is perfectly entitled to differ with Mr. Schiff over what constitutes the national interest. With a casualness you expect only from the media, he relies on the fallacy that wishing to examine Ukrainian meddling in the 2016 election is tantamount to denying Russian meddling.”

Lessig concurs that “the Civil War may well have been the last time we suffered a media environment like this. Then, it was censorship laws that kept the truths of the North separated from the truths of the South. And though there was no polling, the ultimate support for the war, at least as manifested initially, demonstrated to each of those separated publics a depth of tribal commitment that was as profound, and tragic, as any in our history. That commitment, driven by those different realities, led America into the bloodiest war in its history.”

He believes that “we’re not going to war today”, because “we are not separated by geography, and we’re not going to take machetes to our neighbors. But the environment of our culture today leaves us less able to work through fundamental differences than at any time in our past. Indeed, as difference drives hate, hate pays — at least the media companies, and too many politicians.”

Finally, Lessig makes an appeal to the media companies to quit selling hate, and instead seek and establish a common ground whereon both sides could at least share some of the same views; and perhaps that would start a productive national dialogue.  A part of this process would be for companies like Facebook and Twitter to self-censor divisive and false political advertising.

In the end Lessig believes that we have “a fractured America because of siloed information”.  And his strong presumption is that the overwhelming share of citizens of both persuasions restrict their input to outlets of their preferred ideological flavors.  But that is patently an one-sided argument, as even these pages confirm.  Yes, when we monitor CNN, MSNBC, NYT, …, we see a narrow-casting of ideas both in their ‘news’ and commentary.  But that clearly is not the case when we look at the news segments, and even some commentary programs, of outlets like Fox News and Fox Business that with intense regularity feature strong proponents of the Left who launch dialogues totally absent from the other side.  Talking to a liberal these days quickly reveals that the person has not even been updated by his leftwing media on the basic factual happenings of the day.  And here I’m not talking only in the aggregate of such populations; of course, exceptions exist, but they are relatively infrequent (most certainly not any of RR’s leftwing commenters).

To conclude, what concerns me about today’s sincere academics and analysts of our national drama, is that almost all of them turn a blind eye to the distinct, and (to me) very evident, possibility that we are now ideologically beyond the tipping point.  That America is divided by a chasm of no shared ideas into two distinct ideological cohorts.  One working feverishly to fundamentally transform the republic into a pure socialist democracy on the road to globalism, and the other seeking to avoid such a revolution, and go on evolving as a liberty-loving, risk-tolerant nation of entrepreneurs and workers, people who continue to enjoy the blessings of minimally regulated markets overseen by a limited and constitutional government intent on preserving America as free and sovereign nation-state.

Posted in , , ,

147 responses to “A Different and Dangerous Impeachment”

  1. Robert Cross Avatar
    Robert Cross

    Todd, you have consumed the TrumpAid (sour grape flavor) nothing you, Barr or any of trumpler’s minions say is true. You are living a lie, it must be difficult to look in a mirror day after day knowing this. I feel sorry for you all especially Clouseau who continues to bang his head against a wall.

    Like

  2. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: Robert Cross | 09 December 2019 at 11:39 AM
    I feel sorry for you all especially Clouseau who continues to bang his head against a wall.

    Who is this……?!

    Like

  3. fish Avatar
    fish

    Todd I wouldn’t sweat Robertas constant whining…..remember, even the craziest “guest” at the group home is allowed 15 minutes a day on the computer… by law !

    Like

  4. Don Bessee Avatar
    Don Bessee

    Not so fast there IG –
    The U.S. attorney who is conducting a wide-ranging investigation of the origins of the Trump-Russia probe released a rare statement Monday saying he disagrees with conclusions of the so-called FISA report — after DOJ Inspector General Michael Horowitz found in that review that the probe’s launch largely complied with DOJ and FBI policies.
    “Based on the evidence collected to date, and while our investigation is ongoing, last month we advised the Inspector General that we do not agree with some of the report’s conclusions as to predication and how the FBI case was opened,” U.S. Attorney John Durham said in a statement.
    “I have the utmost respect for the mission of the Office of Inspector General and the comprehensive work that went into the report prepared by Mr. Horowitz and his staff,” Durham said. “However, our investigation is not limited to developing information from within component parts of the Justice Department. Our investigation has included developing information from other persons and entities, both in the U.S. and outside of the U.S.”
    As Horowitz has conducted his review of DOJ actions during the Russia probe, Durham, the U.S. attorney for Connecticut, has also been conducting a wider inquiry into alleged misconduct and alleged improper government surveillance on the Trump campaign during the 2016 presidential election.
    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/barr-blasts-fbi-over-intrusive-probe-of-trump-campaign-in-wake-of-fisa-report
    😉

    Like

  5. fish Avatar
    fish

    OH NOES……..

    BREAKING: AS IMPEACHMENT MOVES AHEAD TRUMP SURGES IN BATTLEGROUND STATES

    Roberta and Punchy impacted most!
    https://firehousestrategies.com/analysis/december_2019_battleground_survey/

    Like

  6. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Re: Not so fast. I recommend waiting a day or two as the IG Report shakes out. Much to digest already. Sample stories:
    * FBI Knew The Steele Dossier Was Highly Dubious As Early As January 2017, But Still Relied On It For FISA Renewals
    The FBI smelled garbage. It relied on said garbage anyway.
    * DOJ IG Report Slams Bruce Ohr’s Failure To Report Repeated Interactions With Steele
    * IG Report Confirms No FISA Warrant On Carter Page Without Steele Dossier
    “The much awaited Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) report, conducted by Inspector General Michael Horowitz, was released today. It finds that the FBI would not have had enough claimed evidence to secretly surveil former Trump aide Carter Page, and thus the Trump 2016 campaign, without using a “dossier” of opposition research funded by the Hillary Clinton campaign”
    * Brennan Lied About Not Including Steele Dossier In Intelligence Community Assessment On 2016 Russian Election Interference
    “The new report from Department of Justice Inspector General Michael Horowitz confirmed former CIA Director John Brennan lied to Congress about whether the dossier authored by Christopher Steele was used in the Obama administration’s Intelligence Community Assessment (ICA).”
    And on and on it goes………
    *Bill Barr And John Durham Criticize Conclusions Of IG FISA Investigation
    “Attorney General William Barr and U.S. Attorney John Durham expressed their concern over the conclusion of the newly released FISA report, which concludes the FBI launched a surveillance investigation into former Trump aide Carter Page based on uncorroborated evidence funded by Hillary Clinton and the Democratic National Committee (DNC).
    The FISA report concludes, while the FBI investigation was rife with errors, there is no evidence of political bias or improper motivation that influenced the FBI’s decision to spy on Page.
    In remarks revealing Barr’s attitude toward the FISA report’s findings, Barr claims the IG report made clear the FBI launched an out-of-line investigation.
    “The Inspector General’s report now makes clear that the FBI launched an intrusive investigation of a U.S. presidential campaign on the thinnest of suspicions that, in my view, were insufficient to justify the steps taken,” Barr said.”
    Now,with that out of the way, back to “Impeach the Mother Clucker!”

    Like

  7. George Rebane Avatar

    Did anyone find any pro-Trump errors with which the FISA report was rife? If all the ‘errors’ were anti-Trump, what conclusion can one draw from such evidence?

    Like

  8. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Dr. Rebane @ 1:10 pm
    Not yet, but I am still searching for any pro Trump errors. Got my work cut out for me.
    More IG headlines:
    “IG Report Says CIA Dismissed Steele Dossier as ‘Internet Rumor’”
    “IG Report Details ‘Significant Omissions and Inaccurate Information’ in FISA Application to Surveil Carter Page“
    “DOJ IG Report Finds Russia Probe Wasn’t Politically Motivated But Suffered from ‘Serious Performance Failures’”.
    What the hay are ‘serious performance failures’? Will a little blue pill fix it?
    ————
    And to think the Horowitz report was just about the FICA warrant application to the Court…with no authority to question those outside the DOJ/FBI

    Like

  9. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Bobbie Sue sez:
    “In the ‘just another lie’ category: The long hyped right wing excuse that the FBI Russia investigation was politically motivated by the deep state in order to damage trumpler is total bullcrap. The DOJ Inspector General’s report rebuts the depiction of the investigation of trumpler’s campaign as a politically biased plot against him. The report concluded the FBI and DOJ were justified in launching their probe because of evidence the Russian government was trying to infiltrate the Trump campaign as part of its efforts to influence the election. So all of the ‘witch hunt’ garbage is just that, garbage, that less than conscientious consumers of information buy into hook line and sinker, not because they want to know the truth but because they want to believe all the lies, distortions, and outlandish conspiracy theories put forth by trumpler to the detriment of the nation and the world…
    Todd, you have consumed the TrumpAid (sour grape flavor) nothing you, Barr or any of trumpler’s minions say is true. You are living a lie, it must be difficult to look in a mirror day after day knowing this. I feel sorry for you all especially Clouseau who continues to bang his head against a wall.”
    —-
    Bobbie Sue is in good company! Got her cookie recipe from the highest authority. It’s all bull crap!
    James Comey tweets out the good news.

    @Comey
    So it was all lies. No treason. No spying on the campaign. No tapping Trumps wires. It was just good people trying to protect America.
    ———-
    Well, who can argue with that? Unfortunately, we can assume Roberta will continue banging her pretty little head against the wall. Sure as night follows day and day follows night. It’s called projection. Now, how about all those fake organisms? We’re they fake too?

    Like

  10. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    Listening to the democrat blowhards in the kangaroo court today I have to say, Beria would be proud of Nadler and the gang. Not one fact witness and Nadler had a staffer testify as a witness then had him become a interrogator! Kangaroos are offended.

    Like

  11. George Rebane Avatar

    Then again, if the “serious performance failures” were all agin’ one side, them of us who fell off the punkin wagon last week, and have now had a little time to soak up some city smarts, well, we’d still have a hard time believin’ that it was all an unbiased little effort that went on behind them closed doors, if you get my drift. Actuarily, our gimlet eyeball looking at that report also has some serious clerical back-up – word of God, if truth be told. There was a very clever preacher man some years ago by the name of Rev Tom Bayes who taught us how to figger the chances of such news being on the up and up (although it does requires some of us to take off one shoe to do all the rithmetic). And doncha know, that kind of reckoning tells you there’s somethin’ smelly tween the pages of that there report. Now you go figger.

    Like

  12. Russ Witherspoon Avatar
    Russ Witherspoon

    Rebane-” If all the ‘errors’ were anti-Trump, what conclusion can one draw from such evidence?”
    As a math whiz, you know better than to postulate half of a question . . . unless you are attempting to force the answer you wish to find.
    A less skewed question might be:
    1,002 examples of Trump’s treasonous behavior were put on display. If 3 examples are found false, what conclusion can one draw from such evidence?

    Like

  13. George Rebane Avatar

    RussW 337pm – Surely you jest Mr Witherspoon.

    Like

  14. Scott O Avatar

    “1,002 examples of Trump’s treasonous behavior were put on display.”
    ‘Alleged’ treasonous behavior. Are you sure it isn’t 2,000 examples?
    A great example of ‘just keep throwing lots of mud and maybe some will stick’.

    Like

  15. Walt Avatar

    The “I’m not a LIB” Proggy lets himself get played like a banjo
    in the movie Deliverance.
    https://dailycaller.com/2019/12/09/matt-gaetz-impeachment-daniel-goldman/
    “Republican Florida Rep. Matt Gaetz on Monday torched Daniel Goldman, a former MSNBC contributor serving as House Democrats’ counsel in the impeachment probe, after Goldman said he’s not a partisan.
    “Are you a partisan?” Gaetz asked Goldman. “I’m not a partisan,” Goldman answered. Gaetz then pressed the Democratic counsel on whether he makes political donations.
    “I do, sir. I think it’s very important,” Goldman began to answer, before Gaetz continued. “Matter of fact, you’ve given tens of thousands of dollars to Democrats, right?”
    Gaetz also pressed Goldman on a tweet he sent defending the Trump-Russia dossier. The Florida congressman reminded Goldman that he said in a tweet that “nothing in the dossier is proven false,” even though that’s not the case.
    “But the dossier said there was a Russian consulate in Miami, when there isn’t. The dossier said that Michael Cohen had a meeting in Prague when he didn’t. The dossier said that Michael Cohen’s wife was Russian, she’s, in fact, Ukrainian. And so, as we sit here today, where you I guess got a tweet mentioning a pee tape, presenting yourself not as a partisan, hired by the Democrats to pursue the president, do you regret this tweet?” Gaetz asked.
    Goldman dodged the question, refusing to answer whether or not he regretted the tweet.”
    Just another lying Progressive son of a bitch!

    Like

  16. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    I do finding it amusing that the Dems control the committee, the Dems control the rules, the Dems control what witnesses may or may not be called, the Dems control the media….and they still come out with the short stick. In the Intelligence hearing, we were treated to days of testimony and only one eye witness to the call.
    Today in the House Judicial Committee we were blessed to have staff lawyers as witnesses, none who are or were witnesses to Treason, Bribery, High Crimes and Misdemeanors. Not one material witness presented. The last time the Judicial Committee met, they brought in four lawyers/scholars as witnesses. Witnesses to what?, roflmao. Unbelievable. Lawyers as witnesses and today staff lawyers as witnesses. Where’s the beef?
    I don’t know why I even bother. Impeachment was baked into the cake the moment Hillary could not appear before her supporters to deliver her concession speech on Election Night, USA. No one is surprised. Just another exercise in goofing through the motions.
    The lingering question I have had is why this big rush? They have already voted to impeach Trump a half dozen times before the Ukraine call, so why the Christmas Eve deadline? Aha! I told ya this would all circle back to Russia, Russia, Russia. At least we don’t have to litigate again the Logan Act and Prague and 17 Intel Agencies and The Tower of Power. Or do we?
    Why the rush? Why no witnesses in the Judicial Committee; one committee relegated with the task of coming up with Articles of Impeachment?
    The Dems answer:
    “So now, they have adopted the doctrine of preemptive impeachment. In other contexts (such as the Iraq war), preemption has proved to be an enormously controversial political rationale.”
    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/a-preemptive-impeachment
    See, it all gets back to Russia and Trump stealing the election. Baked into the cake. Trump is going to do it…AGAIN!

    Like

  17. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: Bill Tozer | 09 December 2019 at 06:22 PM
    I do finding it amusing that the Dems control the committee, the Dems control the rules, the Dems control what witnesses may or may not be called, the Dems control the media….and they still come out with the short stick.

    The Republicans would lose every election if they didn’t have the Democrats to run against!

    Like

  18. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Amen, brother.
    I’VE HAD IT WITH IMPEACHMENT
    Apparently the Democrats held another impeachment hearing today, at which I take it they heard “testimony” from their own lawyers. I see on Twitter that the broadcast networks all covered this farce live, and then cut away when the Republicans started talking about the Biden bribe.
    I knew all I needed to know about the Ukraine hoax when I read the transcript of the Trump-Zelensky call, and everything I needed to know about the Russia hoax long before today’s IG report was released. Maybe the Durham report will produce some new evidence; maybe it will even lead to some criminal indictments. I hope so.
    In the meantime, I don’t intend to waste any of my valuable time paying attention to the Democrats’ shameful impeachment effort. This video, which President Trump tweeted last night, sums up my feelings nicely. Impeachment is a political act, and the appropriate response to it is political, as well.
    https://twitter.com/DanScavino/status/1194448682466398209?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1194448682466398209&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.powerlineblog.com%2Farchives%2F2019%2F12%2Five-had-it-with-impeachment.php
    PS: Spin it til the cows come home, but the Horowitz reports is really really bad news for the FBI and the FISA court process. It is a major blow to the Bureau. 5 alarm fire.

    Like

  19. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Buck on Twitter.
    What America learned today is that a glorified internet rumor padded with bad faith “opposition research” can lead to most powerful law enforcement agency in the world opening up a relentless investigation that ignores all contrary evidence in its quest to crush innocent people
    It is true that since FBI agents were dumb enough to believe Carter Page was a Russian asset at the heart of an international conspiracy to rig a presidential election, they were clearly dumb enough to believe almost anything-
    But that doesn’t mean they weren’t anti-Trump too
    As expected, the basic party line from within the DOJ is that all these mistakes and errors that were useful to the anti-Trump cause were somehow good faith errors, because the FBI had some very reckless and dumb people working the most politically sensitive case in its history
    Here’s my preview of IG report:
    “There were some irregularities and insufficient vetting procedures”
    “Steele dossier played big role”
    “Need to review best practices, set up a commission”
    “No systemic bias or criminal conspiracy”
    *Bureaucrats always protect the institution….
    https://twitter.com/BuckSexton?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor
    Amazing that this is what the best and brightest have brought us.

    Like

  20. Walt Avatar

    Hummmmm… Where are the Proggys? Busy looking for something to try and slow the flames of their political dumpster fire?

    Like

  21. Scott O Avatar

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/12/09/doj-ig-at-least-17-significant-errors-or-omissions-in-the-carter-page-fisa-application/
    If the impeachment were an actual trial in a real court of law, the judge would have looked at all the incompetence by the prosecution and thrown the case out of court.
    Notice how all of the errors conveniently went against Trump. No bias here.
    Right.
    Gosh, yer honor, we ain’t biased, we’s jus stoopid!

    Like

  22. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Back to Russia, Russia, Russia. Didn’t a Dem say just the other day that “All roads lead to Putin”. No, Mad Max just repeated it in a different way. Anyway.
    “So, how about all those errors uncovered in the IG Report. When the best and largest federal law enforcement agency in the world working on its biggest case in years, if not decades, somehow has all these “not criminal/political intent” mistakes…big mistakes life withholding mega exculpatory evidence…well, what are the odds that every single mistake or bureaucratic “error” damaged Trump only and only Trump. Lapses in judgement. As Horowitz wrote in his own report, his job is not determine what was behind the ‘error, just identify errors. Poor decision making, all that kind of stuff. Human error. So, some people made mistakes, man. what’s the big deal? Nothing burger,
    https://www.dailywire.com/news/bombshell-fbi-altered-evidence-that-falsely-cast-carter-page-as-russian-spy-report-says?
    Bull crap that the Trump investigation was legit. Bull Pucky. How could a rumor end up in top echelon of the FBI and Justice Department. And then just walk into a FISA court with a piece of paper that has not been vetted, has not been verified, and waltz out with FISA warrants to spy on the Trump based solely on that one piece of paper your got from Steele. 17 errors? Waiting for Durham. Slow news day anyway.

    Like

  23. Barry Pruett Avatar
    Barry Pruett

    Some true news. Republicans in the 90s made impeachment main stream by trying to impeach Clinton. They made this circus possible. No way what Clinton did was impeachable whether getting a hummer in the White House or lying under oath in a civil proceeding (depending on your point of view). That said, an eye for an eye weakens our Union. This fighting needs to stop because the only loser are the People.

    Like

  24. Russ Witherspoon Avatar
    Russ Witherspoon

    Scott O “A great example of ‘just keep throwing lots of mud and maybe some will stick’.”
    Ah yes, a liberal ploy. Mrs Clinton has had truck and trailer loads of mud dumped on her. Of course it was all dumped by liberals.

    Like

  25. Scott O Avatar

    “Mrs Clinton has had truck and trailer loads of mud dumped on her.”
    Yeah – she just always happened to be around criminality. But she never knew shit. She just made the coffee.
    “Billing records? I threw them away.” And then some were found in a dead man’s attic and some in the trunk of a car in the tow yard and some magically just showed up sitting on a table at the library in the White House.
    But there’s still a lot of leftist idiots that believe that billing records thrown away in Arkansas can travel through space and present themselves on a table in the White House untouched by human hands.

    Like

  26. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    RW
    So it’s all about revenge for a blowjob, eh? Makes sense. Been stewing on that for 21 years now? I know, you are watching us and the Royal We will never forget. Burns ya up every time you think of it, eh? Been waiting for this moment for years and now its within your grasp! Slobber slobber. Revenge is a dish best served cold. It’s close you can almost taste it. Enjoy your fall to Earth
    So, No truce in sight. Come on Car-load and RW, put a little love in your heart. How about forgiving us Irredeemables? Bury the jacket. Just kidding. While you are stewing on Impeachment Blowjobs, pull my finger. Meanwhile, off to outside the DOJ/FBI with Durham and that thug-goon Barr. Miles to go before they sleep.
    Already have Durham outside the Department, outside the country, and knocking of the CIA door and working on up. Ratcliffe or something R said an interesting thing the other day. He called the dossier ‘the Obama Dossier.’ Probably just a Slip on the tongue.

    Like

  27. Scott O Avatar

    Barry – “…by trying to impeach Clinton.”
    Uh – he was impeached.
    https://www.reference.com/history/president-bill-clinton-impeached-6e064bf5b22b8316
    “President Bill Clinton was impeached on charges of perjury and obstruction of justice by the House of Representatives on Dec. 19, 1998.”
    And he was disbarred. That was not a political action.
    Good to know I’ll never have to worry about being charged with perjury and obstruction of justice. I’ll just tell the judge that Barry said it’s no big deal. Just a bunch of Republican nonsense.

    Like

  28. Barry Pruett Avatar
    Barry Pruett

    Impeachment should reserved for serious constitutional matters. Clinton lying about a blowjob was not a constitutional crisis. Yes Clinton lied about sex. So what? The voters can take care of that. If Clinton enforced laws which the Supreme Court found unconstitutional, now we have identified a real reason which is what the founders had in mind in connection with impeachment. This thing with Trump is the same as Clinton. When reasonable minds can disagree impeachment should be off the table for the best of the union. Let us voters deal with the minor non-constitutional stuff.

    Like

  29. Don Bessee Avatar
    Don Bessee

    @923 – That begs the question will they learn the lesson with 2 re-elections and another loss of the house? A pattern of penalty from the voters could be established?? We shall see.
    😉

    Like

  30. Barry Pruett Avatar
    Barry Pruett

    True. True. The people are in control and we can tell them what we think.

    Like

  31. scenes Avatar
    scenes

    re: BillT – “So it’s all about revenge for a blowjob, eh? Makes sense.”
    I ran into a quote by J Edgar Hoover.
    “I regret to say that we of the FBI are powerless to act in cases of oral-genital intimacy, unless it has in some way obstructed interstate commerce.”
    ..although you’d have to ask Clyde Tolson about that.
    No doubt there’s an ‘Obama Dossier’ just like there is for any political leader, but I do like the fact that GEOTUS got the beast to make itself known a bit.
    I do need to think on when and why the US secret police veered left from their far right stance in Hoover’s day. Perhaps it was always fated to be in that the primary tendency in the US right (as opposed to the European varieties) is less interested in the growth of government. After all, the Prime Directive of any government function, even a police force, is growth.,

    Like

  32. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Lindsey Graham is taking the position that he is not dragging in Adam Schiff or any other Congressperson not waste the time mainly not drag the country through all long process and waste time. He sees the damage to the country, albeit unpopular in some quarters.
    He would like to hear from Hunter, and more importantly, the Whistleblower. Sounds fair. Focus on the issue at hand. Maybe bring in some Ukrainian officials.
    Heck, their own internal investigation in the 2015 plus time period , the Ukrainians found out that they did indeed meddled with the elections in 2016. But, if Graham drops that, it’s OK. Do that stuff in house with Durham. Focus on impeachment, evidence and why the heck this thing made it out of the House. Then acquit. We already know the ending. Don’t need to bring up everything in the Senate. See, I compromised.
    Hmmm, Durham has increased his staff. Odd, I thought he was winding down. 🙂
    FBI TERMINATED ANTI-TRUMP SOURCE STEFAN HALPER ‘FOR CAUSE’ IN 2011
    New IG report reveals that an FBI informant, most likely Stefan Halper, was hired and fired multiple times by the FBI for the “motivation” behind his spying.

    Like

  33. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Barry,
    Look at the bright side. Only 5 more years of impeachment hearings left!!!
    Scenes.
    Good question. The DC mentality has become overwhelmingly left, with the higher you go, the more Lefty (Leftier?) it becomes. It’s the DC HQ mentality mixed with some NY HQ mentality. No joking around with them. No cuts ups welcomed. They are, with exceptions, of the same mind.

    Like

  34. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    “Dem Rep. Jayapal: Trump Himself Is the ‘Smoking Gun’ in Impeachment Case”
    Well, yeah. That’s been the Left’s position.
    “She continued, “[T]his is an odd situation where we had the first and best witness very early on, on national television, saying exactly what he wanted from that call with Ukrainian President Zelensky. And that was Donald Trump when he came out and he said he wanted an investigation into the Bidens.”
    Jayapal then advised she and the rest of the House Democrats hope to “lay out the facts” against Trump.”
    https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2019/12/09/dem-rep-jayapal-trump-himself-is-the-smoking-gun-in-impeachment-case/?
    Meanwhile, word is they are dropping the charge of bribery. Lay the facts out there, ladies. Treason is the high card, your ace in the hole. Trumps Trump. Just helping you out. Now, get out there and roar! Show the world your pretty facts for all to see.

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  35. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    That’s Turley!

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  36. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    From Kimberly Strassel’s twit feed:
    2) The report is triumph for former House Intel Chair Devin Nunes, who first blew the whistle on FISA abuse. The report confirms all the elements of the February 2018 Nunes memo, which said dossier was as an “essential” part of applications, and FBI withheld info from FISA court
    3)Conversely, report is an excoriation of Adam Schiff and his “memo” of Feb 2018. That doc stated that “FBI and DOJ officials did NOT abuse the [FISA] process” or “omit material information.” Also claimed FBI didn’t much rely on dossier.
    4)In fact, IG report says dossier played “central and essential role” in getting FISA warrants. Schiff had access to same documents as Nunes, yet chose to misinform the public. This is the guy who just ran impeachment proceedings.
    https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1204200899133919232.html

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  37. scenes Avatar
    scenes

    BillT: “The DC mentality has become overwhelmingly left, with the higher you go, the more Lefty (Leftier?) it becomes.”
    To a large degree, my guess is that the Substate hivemind has it’s own heading. The same great minds that brought you years of drone strikes, hijinks in Libya (complete with it’s own head of state death by bunga bunga), an ever-growing surveillance system, and a global system of commerce that lacks patriotism has made common cause with our local 420th Nevada City Volunteers. Both have veered towards each other.
    I’m still trying to get comfortable with defining it and don’t do well. Heroes of the left like John Brennan, the current Pope, B. Sanders, also haven’t laid out a philosophy. I suppose that Trump is clumsily feeling his way towards a little ‘r’ resistance to what is basically the large-scale establishment view. It’s all in flux, all in flux.

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  38. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    More AP propaganda and bias in the Union today on the IG report. Not a word that the AG and Durham disagreed or that the Steele Dossier was bogus. Amazing malpractice. I sent an email to Rogers and Hamilton. You all should as well and urge them to get rid of the AP crap.

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  39. Scott O Avatar

    Barry 9:23 “This thing with Trump is the same as Clinton.”
    I have to disagree. Bill Clinton was impeached for perjury and obstruction of justice. Those are clear and definite crimes. It doesn’t matter what he was lying about. The R’s running the House at the time didn’t have to employ the most tortured sort of reasoning and fabricated BS to get the votes against Clinton.
    What clear and definite crime has Trump been charged with?
    It’s been pretty obvious from the start of his term that the Dems have been fruitlessly looking for anything to charge him with.
    Their new, new, made up definitions and terms give away the lie that Trump has done anything to be impeached for.
    The bottom line is that the authors of the Constitution left the matter with whatever party controlled the House. If the votes are there to impeach, then impeachment it is, even if it’s for jay-walking.

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  40. scenes Avatar
    scenes

    moi@8:06AM
    My need for word salad was making me muse about the birth of the left-wing megacorporation, and how this changes the definition of ‘left’.
    We’ve seen a good 50 years of coalescing of commerce. There’s the growth of manufacturing companies and the crowding out of most, the victory of the chain store/restaurant/car dealer, the network effect and gigantism off internet corporations, but I can’t think of another time in history when those companies became political activists in non-related activities. The idea of a huge coffee shop chain becoming fixated on gun control or providing restrooms to drug addicts is new…not to mention Google.
    Corporatocracy is the wrong word as the government is still the primary player. The gutting of US manufacturing and the growth of storing and pushing bytes as an ‘economy’ has upset the apple cart, but this merger of corporations and traditional left-wing shibboleths is new to me.

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  41. scenes Avatar
    scenes

    moi #2: Maybe that is the real genius of Trump. He’s blowing up the uncomfortable marriage between the individualist and militarist right. The sides, they are a changin’.

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  42. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Yesterday, the one who did the Victory Dance and was the most vocal above the noise was one James Comey. Reminded me of when Trump and Putin met on stage in Helsinki, the one yelling the loudest above all voices was John Brennen. “Treason! Traitor!!”
    “Comey claims to be funnier in person than he is on Twitter, but I think the proper comparison is with J. Edgar Hoover. He may be funnier than Hoover, but Hoover was a better FBI Director.”
    https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2019/12/live-from-comeyworld.php

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  43. George Rebane Avatar

    ToddJ 810am – Todd, you continue to believe that The Union is somehow trying to be a mid-road newspaper. Give it up. The Union is a leftwing newspaper that likes to see itself as, perhaps, center-left. They are not making a mistake, subscribing to an established leftwing news service like AP is on plan for outlets like The Union.
    Scenes 825am – the established correct word you are looking for is ‘corporatism’ – the incestuous relationship between government and private corporations which need the government gun to manage their competition through laws/regulations/subsidies in return for paying off cooperating politicians whose policies they then in turn support – the quid pro quos go on and on. And to top it off, the Left points to the whole affair as evidence for the failure of capitalism. More later.

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  44. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Scenes @8:06am & 8:25 am
    Confession time. When I characterized the mindset of the government work force living and drawing their checks in DC, I knew the term “Lefty” was woefully inaccurate. Leftier does not encapsulate the meaning, not by a long shot. Even deleted that paragraph and rewrote it and still was not satisfied. When one thinks of mid level types or CIA analysts, one thinks of Mr. “Call me Lieutenant Colonel Vindman, please” Vindman. The common thread closer to the top (and stink) is a globalist and bureaucratic Establishment mentality married together. A force unto themselves. The other 4th branch of government.
    So, yes Scenes, I chickened out and posted the 10:36 pm knowing full well the post would have better without reaching for the right word. This, I am a coward, a yellow bellied bushwhacking lizard of the lowest form.
    When and how the FBI/ DOJ turned to something that fits into its own pigeon hole is an interesting and puzzling question. Maybe they never moved, just J Edgar got caught.
    Buzz words yesterday were “McCarthyism”, followed by Beria.

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  45. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Random headlines. My distain for Shiifylipps grows…even through he is in hiding. It grows stronger.
    Add James Comey to the list of Pencil Neck lying geeks.
    *SCHIFF: ONLY IMPEACHMENT WILL ENSURE A FREE AND FAIR ELECTION
    Speaking to reporters on Capitol Hill, Schiff made clear the only election that Democrats will accept the results of is an election without Donald Trump
    *IG Report Confirms Schiff FISA Memo Media Praised Was Riddled With Lies
    Nearly two years later, the inspector general’s report vindicates the Nunes memo while showing that the Schiff memo was riddled with lies and false statements
    * IG Report Shows Comey Lied To Congress About FBI Investigation Of Trump Campaign
    Not only did the Obama administration’s FBI target the Trump campaign in the heat of the 2016 presidential election, but it used an intelligence briefing of Trump to gather ‘evidence’ on him.
    ——-
    And still they found not a shred of evidence of Russian-Trump collusion. That’s cause even Peter and Lisa knew there was no there there. Guess the Dems are setting up for not accepting the results of any election that has Donald J Trump on the ballot. He who fights and runs away shall live to fight another day. Never surrender, never retreat. Just fall back to a better location.
    Hints that this current impeachment will fail to remove Trump from office is heard with “we can impeach him as many times we want when he screws up again…and we know he will.”
    Bingo:
    *An Election Too Important to Be Left to Voters

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  46. scenes Avatar
    scenes

    GeorgeR: “Scenes 825am – the established correct word you are looking for is ‘corporatism’ – the incestuous relationship between government and private corporations which need the government gun to manage their competition through laws/regulations/subsidies in return for paying off cooperating politicians whose policies they then in turn support”
    Not that a word really matters, but I think I’m dissatisfied with ‘corporatism’…whether it’s meant in the sense of control of the .gov by business or simply the organization of society by common interest.
    The odd thing I’m seeing is the merging of special interest group politics with (what should be) disinterested corporations. It’s not unknown in the past, there’s always been the odd John Kellogg, but there’s an underlying philosophy of this New Left that many companies have signed up for with no advantage to their stockholders. The result is a hodgepodge of the KVMR news desk, Twitter, school bureaucrats, GoogleAmazon, and well meaning 5G activists. Whether it’s a real mass movement or just an agreement between mafias is something I’m trying to wrap my head around.

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  47. scenes Avatar
    scenes

    “*An Election Too Important to Be Left to Voters”
    …and even then, they get it good and hard.

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  48. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: scenes | 10 December 2019 at 10:39 AM
    The odd thing I’m seeing is the merging of special interest group politics with (what should be) disinterested corporations. It’s not unknown in the past, there’s always been the odd John Kellogg, but there’s an underlying philosophy of this New Left that many companies have signed up for with no advantage to their stockholders. The result is a hodgepodge of the KVMR news desk, Twitter, school bureaucrats, GoogleAmazon, and well meaning 5G activists. Whether it’s a real mass movement or just an agreement between mafias is something I’m trying to wrap my head around.

    “The new aristocracy was made up for the most part of bureaucrats, scientists, technicians, trade-union organizers, publicity experts, sociologists, teachers, journalists, and professional politicians. These people, whose origins lay in the salaried middle class and the upper grades of the working class, had been shaped and brought together by the barren world of monopoly industry and centralized government. As compared with their opposite numbers in past ages, they were less avaricious, less tempted by luxury, hungrier for pure power, and, above all, more conscious of what they were doing and more intent on crushing opposition. This last difference was cardinal.”

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  49. George Rebane Avatar

    scenes 1039am – Understood, and good explanation. Corporatism is indeed too narrow of a label for what you are defining. Corporatism has been practiced since biblical times, and was rampant under monarchies. In modern times Hitler’s Third Reich launched a very comprehensive form of corporatism after he became chancellor in 1933.
    As you know, I am a strong believer that words do really matter. Do you see that your useful definition, and hence its TBD label, will subsume corporatism, or will it have an independent (orthogonal) semantic? In any event, name the baby so that you (and others) won’t have to sing the entire song each time you want use the notion in discourse.

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