Rebane's Ruminations
November 2018
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George Rebane

Over 40 dead and counting, plus thousands of buildings and homes burned, plus hundreds of thousands of acres of trees and wild critters of all kinds killed, plus untold amounts of public monies pissed away that could have been used for many better things for the common good.  And all of this as the result of an annually recurring insanity put in place by well-meaning econuts through programs that started long ago with Smokey the Bear.  Today the epidemic of this seeming ignorance has become endemic.

Once upon a time the U.S. Forest Service’s mission was to actively manage the federal government’s resources. Yet numerous laws over the last 50 years, including the Endangered Species Act and National Environmental Policy Act, have hampered tree-clearing, controlled burns and timber sales on federal land. (13nov18 WSJ)

Today the Agenda21 driven political divide has been augmented by the use of ‘climate change’ to double down on dumb forest management policies.  Moonbeam Brown has led a chorus of progressive pundits and their legions of true believers, claiming that preventable man-made global warming is the cause of all the recent catastrophic conflagrations (more here).  Again, the data does not support such emotionally charged political arguments; there is no scientific basis for a causal link, only a political one. (more here, H/T to reader)

President Trump’s message about governments mismanaging our forests is spot on, no matter how crudely it might have been delivered.  We have to reduce the tremendous fuel loads in our forests through active programs of undergrowth clearance, harvesting timber, and prescribed burns.  One only need to look at the circa 1850 photos of California forests to understand what humans have done over the last 150+ years.  Back then trees in the mountainous west grew in copses separated by open spaces – lightning started forest fires burned only a few copses that had grown too close together, but that was it, the fire didn’t spread and go on burning miles of trees.  It took human foolishness to encourage cheek-by-jowl growth through aggressive firefighting.  Forest thinning wildfires were outlawed, but never stopped.

Now our ecological betters, using the government gun, have created critically flammable environments wherever they could identify an endangered critter or flower or fungus or … .  Put that together with population growth that has built homes and towns in the former wildlands, and anyone with an ounce of critical thought knows that the annual chance of disastrous wildfires quickly approaches certainty.  The reality is that the forests and chaparral will burn, no matter what.  The only choice we have is whether it will burn economically when and where we want it to burn, or whether it will burn when and where we can least afford to have it burn and at enormous cost.

The right choice should be an easy one.  So why hasn’t it been made?  There may be several reasons, but one of the most plausible explanations for our decades-long insanity in choosing badly is that such wildfires also serve a greater political purpose to aid the ongoing fundamental transformation of America.  If we consider public policies encouraging such annual holocausts in that light, then one can make the plausible case that our devastating wildfires are really the result of totally rational decisions toward an end which eventually will serve a greater common good – these wildfires are just another form of the eggs which must be cracked before our central planners can deliver their promised omelet.  It's worth a discussion.

[16nov18 update]  An environmentalists’ epiphany??? 

After decades of butting heads, some environmentalists and logging supporters have largely come to agreement that forests need to be logged to be saved. … Another dangerous factor, land-management experts say, is that forests have become overgrown with trees and underbrush due to a mix of human influences, including a past federal policy of putting out fires, rather than letting them burn. Washington has also sharply reduced logging under pressure from environmentalists. (more here)

Is liberalism really anything different from mental illness?  Why did it take decades for these people to recognize a solution known to the rest of us for over a century?  How many other such practical approaches to commerce, land use, and recreation do these people continue to deny America?  Does this epiphany represent some light at the end of this insane tunnel?

Posted in , , , ,

98 responses to “Do California Wildfires Serve a Greater Purpose?”

  1. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Hard to say Scenes. We had one specifically about the South Yuba Canyon and it led to an awareness between the agencies involved that they needed to work together. They still meet regularly on the topic.

    Like

  2. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Very Libertarian viewpoint on the matter George. So you don’t believe California should pay through taxes for this years hurricane damage in Florida or the Carolina’s?

    Like

  3. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Ah the land of a thousand meetings accomplishing nothing. The American way.

    Like

  4. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    What have you done about the problem Todd?

    Like

  5. ***M*** Avatar
    ***M***

    ,,,brownlumpfisherman,,,so petty,,,for an HTML king!!!

    Like

  6. ***M*** Avatar
    ***M***

    ,,,read it and weep boys,,,
    “‘Current science shows that it is weather, and therefore climate change, that overwhelmingly determines how fires behave and spread, not forest density. The most heavily-logged areas burn more intensely, not less, contrary to the claims of the Trump administration.”‘
    https://www.sacbee.com/opinion/op-ed/soapbox/article218303180.html

    Like

  7. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    What have you done about the problem Paul Emery? All those dead people want to know.

    Like

  8. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    KVMR along with Yubanet have sponsored four town hall meetings at the Nevada theater in the past two years on fire related issues.”
    and what exactly has that accomplished?
    Posted by: scenes | 14 November 2018 at 03:44 PM
    Hmm. Seems to me the resident expert on fire land issues is the one who has sponsored 4 townhall meetings, no doubt having the Fire Safe Council on board…and he is asking George questions, lol.
    Seems to me that if I bought an abode next to hundreds of acres of raw land that has been previously logged, I knew full well what I was buying. Let the buyer beware.

    Like

  9. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    “M” ypi really have no clue. Are you aware a million acres in Idaho’s Panhandle burned around the turn of the last century. Well before autos.

    Like

  10. ***M*** Avatar
    ***M***

    ,,,Sad Todd,,,you are delusional,,,what are you talking about,,,so large fires have happened in the past,,,yeah so what?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Fire_of_1910

    Like

  11. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    KVMR has been the beacon of local fire news by working with Yubanet to get the information out when a fire hits and what people should do to be safe. We go live taking phone calls and are the Emergency Broadcast Station in our ares since we have an actual person on the air 24 hours a day That’s just a start. What have you done Todd?

    Like

  12. Don Bessee Avatar
    Don Bessee

    The pony tail of ignorance @ 525 – Then why didn’t you learn anything at those 4 KVMR meetings if they were so great?
    😉

    Like

  13. Paul Emery Avatar

    I learned lot Don. Were you there or do you know everything?

    Like

  14. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Paul Emery, what have you done that is tangible to the people of the community? Nothing. Just yapping.
    “M”, you truly are a dense buffoon. You and your ilk say man made climate change is the reason for these fires and I give you one example of a huge fire way before man was sending carbon into the atmosphere. Now, repeat after me, I “M” am a moron.

    Like

  15. Don Bessee Avatar
    Don Bessee

    They why are you unable to have a real discussion on the issue and ask typically dense pony tail of ignorance questions @554? Its seems for you it was just virtue signaling about the 4 meetings as if they give you cred.
    😉

    Like

  16. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    I can see all those lefty eco warriors sitting in their chairs around a eight-seat table yapping about the fires. None have a clue about the cause or solution but they sure like their pepperoni pizza Paul Emery brought.

    Like

  17. Paul Emery Avatar

    Todd
    The meetings were at the Nevada Theatre and broadcast live over KVMR and NCTV. there were media representatives from KVMR, the Union, Yubanet and KNCO.
    All local fire agencies were on the panels as well as representatives from the Sheriffs Dept, State Parks, BLM, Tahoe Forrest, SYRCL and others.
    Why wern’t you there?

    Like

  18. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    And Sierra Pacific is a green company and is selling for a profit all those carbon credits the company received for not logging redwoods. 🙂
    ————
    Let’s stand back. It’s not one size fits all. Depends where you live. If you live in Southern Cal, you are just going to have wildfires in those mountains no matter what. The chemise, the chaparral brush are made to go 9 months easy without moisture. Small round leaves to minimize evaporation, sap is flammable grease, hot ass summers, and all one can do is create a buffer zone around your home.
    The tragic Paradise Fire still now raging raced toward that town over a path that burned ten years ago. Unless you can stop those winds blowing from Great Basin over the mountains and heading west across the woodlands, if will happen again. The reason it’s called oak woodlands is because previous fires over the years have burned up all the underbrush and only the oaks survive. And the grass likes the light. Don’t drop a match.
    Ok, the conifer forests. Thin them? Are you nuts?? Never happen. Just drive up to Sierra City on 49, to the summit up 80 or 20, or up to Bowman or Jackson Meadows, and look at all those hills and distant mountains and steep slopes and…take it all in. Then get a map of the Sierras and draw a pencil thin line on the map of what you just viewed on a nice drive. Look how tiny that pencil mark is on that big map. Think NID covers 400,000 acres from the top of the watersheds to where it leaves our area.
    How the hay are you going to thin or do control burn hundreds of thousands of acres or even 50,000 acres? You are talking 100’s of thousands of men and equipment on slopes and it what would like what an old miner wrote. From his highpoint, he saw in the distance a side of a mountain covered with what looked like ants. Upon further viewing he realized it was men, thousands of them. Miners. That’s what you need. It’s labor intensive and slow and expensive.
    So, what can we do? Well, we got those bombers stationed here. CDF sees smoke and they hit it with everything they got as fast and hard as they can to knock that baby out before it becomes uncontrollable. Oh course, weather permitting. Clear along roads, create defensivable spaces around your home, store cans of gas in safe place….that’s all one can do. Targeted areas and fire breaks. Removing underbrush if you got trees to remove the fire ladder. You don’t want one to jump into the crowns of pines. Then it jumps.
    Knew an elderly lady maybe 20 years ago who was asked for advice by Nevada City or someone group about the stretch of land from around the bottom of Cement Hill, up 49 almost to the old Rainbow Market across from the Willow. Making a trail or something or maybe just a fire hazard. She told the group to remove the underbrush, limb up some branches, that kind of thing. Well, that advice caused quite the stir amoung the tree hugging nature loving committee she was talking to. Despite some conflicted members of the Nevada City Committee, they took her advice. Wasn’t 6 months later a fire came right through there and trees were still standing and everything was fine. When my elderly friend was examining the area with the Committe (who had asked her to for advice on replanting or assessment, she remarked how wonderful it was how the fire came through and ne’er got up into the trees and passed through leaving little damage. Perfect. A banana head committee member lady who was the most vocal critic of cutting anything…. shot darts through her eyes at my friend for her remarking the plan worked.ROFLMAO.
    Remember that crazy CA lib proposition defining ‘clear cut’ as anything over one brush per 5 acres., lol. Let’s see your logging plan, homeowner! Beg for mercy, worm.
    The Forest Service screwed up in the 40’s and 50’s by allowing logging on steeper slopes. Erorision problems, big no no. And clear cutting ain’t nice and neither are piles of slash. The tree huggers stopped a lot of logging, even though we live in an age of best practices. Enough finger pointing to go around on everybody

    Like

  19. Don Bessee Avatar
    Don Bessee

    Why wern’t you there? Asks the pony tail of ignorance.
    Why weren’t you at all of the meetings this year in many venues farther than the next building! LOL
    😉

    Like

  20. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Don @ 7:16 pm
    It’s sounds like he was there, but either not taking notes or not being being all there.
    He comes here because he is not all there.
    Boy, thinning out brush on his neighbor’s property and dragging all those pieces up the hill and burning it on his property is a lot of work. Can’t burn on land you don’t live on without a different permit.
    30 feet deep should do it. Write the property owner a letter. Propablty say, “Sure, you can have all the brush you want to cut.” Start with the dead stuff….and posion oak. 🙂
    Rule of thumb: Flame from coyote Bush or deer brush is twice the height of the plant. You can cut and burn manzanita on the spot All these Native brushes are a pain in the back, legs, and arms to drag to a burn area, not to mention cutting drag trails and clearings. Better start now and get er done before burn permits are pulled around the first of June. Those babies burn hot….make sure no coals roll down the hill. Sweat equity.
    Yes, it’s a danger to our pubic safety! Chop chop. I got inspected and the CDF guys were so happy they wrote “Great Job” on the form copy. . They were tickled pink and I left many fine specimens of native plants and trees, spaced appropriately. Start with the dead ones, then cut out dead branches on live ones, then every third one, maybe every other one. Make it look natural. Make it an artistic masterpiece!
    My legs hurt just thinking about it. Since I am here:
    https://m.facebook.com/RowdyConservatives/photos/a.217983685002343/1476315702502462/?type=3&source=48

    Like

  21. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Hey if I was there I might have brought up the utter waste of money and time that requiring interior sprinklers cost to save a house from a wildfire. But that and all the other rules Post-Tahoe fire rules and building codes was put together by the same band of idiots.

    Like

  22. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Moi @ 8:13. Oh yeah. Don’t disturb the soil. There is a natural compaction you don’t want to mess with. Afterall, you will be looking at it, nobody else. Protect the watershed!

    Like

  23. Russ Avatar
    Russ

    A February report by the Little Hoover Commission, the State Oversight Committee for the State of California, found that CA has “ignored the gathering underbrush and dead trees in their forests for 100 years by underfunding any systematic removal of it.” As the Committee put it, these forest fires probably nullified California’s “hard-fought carbon reductions.”
    One can only wonder what would have happened if California had spent as money on forest management as they spent electric vehicles?
    The WSJ points out that the State Of California has spent 10 times more on electric vehicles than on controlled forest fires and underbrush removal, $335 million to $30 million, in the last fiscal year.

    Like

  24. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Jerry Brown’s veto:
    “California Gov. Jerry Brown’s decision to veto a 2016 bipartisan bill aimed at mitigating wildfire risks from power lines and utility equipment has become the focus of critics as fires rage across the state.
    “Wildfires have scorched more than 221,000 acres across California since Thursday, and Brown’s critics are pointing to the two-year-old veto as news reports suggest power lines may have sparked the deadliest wildfire in California’s history.
    “He has done nothing to harden those assets,” state Sen. John Moorlach, a Republican, told The Daily Caller News Foundation.”
    https://dailycaller.com/2018/11/13/california-jerry-brown-wildfire/?fbclid=IwAR0P3mOfaRd4UrtWij335ydjUE8rb_AmpG95YdChS7QD0xm21arxq7Gk5hA
    And they run CA from the cities. We are screwed.

    Like

  25. Walt Avatar

    So the LIBS are going to tour the fire zone. All they will see is future revenue in the form of studies, fees stacked on top of fees and inflated permit costs. Then of course, PLENTY of new regulations the get to pass that the people wanting to rebuild will have to choke on. If getting raped by the fire wasn’t bad enough, the LIB politicians get a turn.

    Like

  26. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    May I propose ? It’s been right under our noses this whole time.
    “The laws of the past 45 years have not only failed to protect the forest environment, they have done immeasurable harm to our forests,” said Republican Rep. Tom McClintock, who represents a northeastern district in California, in a congressional hearing. “Time and again, we see vivid boundaries between the young, healthy, growing forests managed by state, local, and private landholders, and the choked, dying, or burned federal forests.”
    “According to a Reason Foundation study, another flaw in forest management is a systematic reduction in timber removal. This began in 1990 when the spotted owl was listed as threatened under the Endangered Species Act. In response, the Forest Service placed restrictions on timber harvests. Additionally, President Bill Clinton introduced a rule that restricted the construction of new roads on 49 million acres of national forest. This limited the ability of the Forest Service from thinning trees. In 1993, 1,797,574 acres of wildlands burned, but in 2017 this number jumped to 10,026,086 acres.”
    http://thefederalist.com/2018/11/16/misguided-environmentalism-blame-californias-wildfires/

    Like

  27. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Little Hoover Comission on Wildfires, 2018.
    However, there may be more truth to Trump’s tweet than many of his critics care to admit. The Democrat-led Little Hoover Commission is an independent state oversight agency that released a report earlier this year on wildfire destruction and forest management practices that seemed to affirm Trump’s sentiments.
    Former Democratic representative and deputy district attorney Pedro Nava, who is currently the commission’s chairman, addressed California’s governor and the legislature with an open letter that opens the February report. The first sentence of this letter states: “A century of mismanaging Sierra Nevada forests has brought an unprecedented environmental catastrophe that impacts all Californians.”
    After describing the dilapidated state of the Sierra Nevada forests, and providing examples of the “imminent crisis,” Nava suggested “investing upfront to create healthier forests” in an effort to curb “the spiraling costs of state firefighting.” After further description of the economic costs incurred in the wake of wildfires, Nava concluded that “all these are symptoms of a larger problem of forest mismanagement and neglect.”
    The report also blames “poor management policies that interrupted the natural and historical cycle of fire” as a cause that has “left forests vulnerable to disease, insects, catastrophic fire and drought.”
    http://thefederalist.com/2018/11/16/democrats-attacked-president-trump-saying-exactly-democrats-said-california-fires/

    Like

  28. ***M*** Avatar
    ***M***

    ,,,In the interview taped Friday and scheduled for broadcast on “Fox News Sunday,” Trump said he was surprised to see images of firefighters removing dried brush near a fire, adding, “This should have been all raked out.”,,,
    I guess that makes sense coing from somebody whose idea of nature is a golf course
    Get out there and start raking!!!!

    Like

  29. George Rebane Avatar

    Re M 905am – Another attempted bon mot by one our resident progressives. The gentleman is nothing if not a gift that keeps on giving.

    Like

  30. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    I give “M” and his ilk all the credit for these fires. I did my best over the years at a countless hearing to bring some common sense to the stupid rules of the Tahoe and others but I lost out to the Sierra Club MAchine of death.

    Like

  31. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Trump arrives at Beale at 12:45

    Like

  32. ***M*** Avatar
    ***M***

    ,,,hey,,,are you guys posting mobile in your MAGA hats from Hammonton Smartsville Rd.???

    Like

  33. ***M*** Avatar
    ***M***

    You should be home ‘’’raking’’’!!!

    Like

  34. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: M | 17 November 2018 at 09:52 AM
    You should be home ‘’’raking’’’!!!

    Indeed…we should! After all unlike you, nobody else here is counting on starvation wage “Caravan Labor”!

    Like

  35. ***M*** Avatar
    ***M***

    ,,,looking forward to the lastest labor pool climbing the Great Wall of Trump as we speak!!!

    Like

  36. George Boardman Avatar

    First Trump gets rained out in France, now this:
    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-too-busy-on-calls-veterans-day_us_5bef29e7e4b0b84243e25212
    That’s the kind of support the military needs.

    Like

  37. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: M | 17 November 2018 at 10:00 AM
    I have no doubt……it’s always the last “progressive” you expect to pine for an endless stream of poor brown stoop labor!

    Like

  38. Walt Avatar

    If historical flight paths are in play, AF1 should be coming in over Penn Valley May have to dig out the good camera for this one.
    If so, AF1 will dump it’s sewer tanks right over the resident ridge rat’s place.

    Like

  39. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Oh Noarman, if you think anyone here thinks the HuffPo is anything but fake news then I have a bridge. You libs are always negative. My goodness Trump comes here and all you do is send your crap out. Go sit in your outhouse and contemplate both your navels.

    Like

  40. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Walt get some pics! And “M” start earlier with the depends.

    Like

  41. '''M''' Avatar
    ”’M”’

    ,,,Walter is here??? I thought he loaded up the ditch witch and scoped AR-10 and was trucking down I-5 to the southern border to do battle with the “”browns””

    Like

  42. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: ”’M”’ | 17 November 2018 at 11:29 AM
    Please tell me that you’re restricting your exploitation of these poor souls to cheap yard and house work! You’re not using them for “other” services are you dugsKKKi?

    Like

  43. George Boardman Avatar

    Todd, your inability to comprehend what you read is almost beyond comprehension. The HuffPost article is based on an interview Trump did with Chris Wallace that Fox News will broadcast. Watch the interview and listen to Trump’s lame excuse.

    Like

  44. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    That is their interpretation. I am amazed that you, a self-proclaimed smarty pants, can’t discern between what is said and what is reported. Besides, the interview is not broadcast until tomorrow. I suggest you take some ginko biloba and get back to the thread.

    Like

  45. George Boardman Avatar

    Todd, once again you fail to comprehend. The HuffPost article is based on a partial transcript given to reporters by Fox News. In fact, the relevant quote is reproduced in HuffPost article.
    You can’t even comprehend simple, basic information, let alone anything complex.

    Like

  46. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Sorry Boardman but I have more intelligence in my little finger than you in your whole bloated body.

    Like

  47. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    And your inability to discern fake news from that which is real is breathtaking.

    Like

  48. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    George Boardman | 17 November 2018 at 10:04 AM
    Watched the interview this morning with Wallace and Trump said it was not the rain as you and your fake news alleged that kept him from the cemetery. It was the fog and the Secret Service told him to stay put. So once again you lie and try and fool the people with your hate. He said he regretted not attending here when he returned. I accept his apology. You should try it sometime.

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