Rebane's Ruminations
August 2018
S M T W T F S
 1234
567891011
12131415161718
19202122232425
262728293031  

ARCHIVES


OUR LINKS


YubaNet
White House Blog
Watts Up With That?
The Union
Sierra Thread
RL “Bob” Crabb
Barry Pruett Blog

George Rebane

It turns out that my ongoing assessments of our Great Divide have been in error โ€“ the gulf between Americaโ€™s Left and Right is significantly wider than what I have been reporting.  This latest epiphany came to me as I was perusing โ€˜Another Day of Conflicting Realitiesโ€™, Bob Crabbโ€™s latest post and comment stream in which he takes me to task for my posting โ€œleft/right polarization will make a quantum leap to a much higher level in the next twelve months, exceeding by far anything we have witnessed to dateโ€ (here), and then goes on to verify this assertion.


In my years of observing the advent of our Great Divide, I have repeatedly sought to identify and solicit examples of the claimed โ€˜common groundโ€™ that remains between our two receding poles.  No one has stepped forward in these or other pages to point out even the remnants of a bridge to such a hopeful place.  Everything that one side or the other offers is rejected a fortiori by their opposites with a counter offer of โ€˜my way or the highwayโ€™.

The nature of my epiphany was found in the extended comment by one of our countyโ€™s liberal intellectuals who also tracks and contributes to the goings on hereabouts.  He advises Bobโ€™s readers that (seatbelts please) โ€œThe American liberal movement actually has not become more liberal or radical while all of this has been going on. Consider just Democratic choices for president in the last several cyclesโ€“Clinton, Gore, Kerry, Obama, Clinton were all moderate to centrist democratic choices in their respective races; rather than shifting to the left Democrats have shifted to the centerโ€“ and the fact that every effort Democrats have made to compromise with the current administration on policy issues has been rejected.โ€  Gore and Obama centrists??!

Another worthy comes right out with what appears to be the local Democratsโ€™ received wisdom, that their party has actually been migrating right toward the center.  Since my counter position was the focus of the discussion, I contributed my two cents โ€“

What a marvelous viewpoint โ€“ โ€œrather than shifting to the left Democrats have shifted to the centerโ€. Does anyone other than the far left base really believe this. We have an overflowing record over the recent months of moderate Democrats publicly advising their alt-left colleagues about the partyโ€™s leftward drift turning into a socialist stampede. And, of course, the other half of the country, also invisible to the Left, needs no further evidence of this very visible process. And yet, and yet, in these foothills our local lefties have not a clue of this ongoing phenomenon, as they watch their accused โ€˜authoritariansโ€™ remove government from hundreds (thousands?) of regulatory authoritarian diktats that were ensconced by, yes who else, the Left. โ€ฆ BTW, it would be most interesting to see even a short list of Democratsโ€™ โ€œcompromisesโ€.

Considering me and mine to be beyond the pale of reasonable discourse, I was directed to the arguments and โ€œlogic of a well-educated college professorโ€ in a desperate attempt to direct some light of truth to my eyes.  Said college professor is none other than the leftwing ideologue and clinical psychologist John Ehrenreich who writes โ€˜Why Are Conservatives More Susceptible to Believing Lies?โ€™ in Slate, that standard of liberal elocution.

In his piece the good professor selectively intertwines certain polled beliefs of the looney Right with scholarly references to cognitive foibles shared by all humans, as recently and most convincingly reported by Kahneman et al.  For example, as a versed propagandist, he confounds the Republicansโ€™ use of the โ€˜death panelsโ€™ label for the panel of experts originally specified in Obamacare with the skepticism of preventable manmade global warming voiced by many on the Right.  (The panel was written in to perform the needed culling of high-cost medical procedures to patients who would benefit minimally due to age or pre-existing conditions.  It was quietly removed after the political uproar correctly pointed out that the panelโ€™s recommendations would necessarily deny healthcare coverage to certain populations, thereby contributing to their earlier demise.  However, all nationalized healthcare systems must needs have such โ€˜death panelsโ€™ in their, usually futile, attempts to contain runaway costs.)

Ehrenreichโ€™s point to the unwary Slate reader is that these weaknesses condense in and express themselves almost entirely from the nervous systems of conservatives, concluding that โ€œif you add up all of these particular differences, you get two groups that are systematically(sic) motivated to believe different things.โ€  (His arguments advise the use of โ€˜systemically motivatedโ€™ instead.  BTW, there is ample clinical evidence that liberals and conservatives use different parts of their brains to reason as reported here by the NIH.)

Dr Ehrenreich glibly generalizes to the entire Right the views of its fringe minority.  He holds the Left immune from such generalizations of traits, and ignores all of the manifest impacts of liberal (collectivist) public policies on Americaโ€™s urban concentrations of the lightly read, and totally invisible to him are the historical and ongoing tragedies of leftist governance.

The takeaway from this on which we can all agree was summarized in my โ€˜They Sure Ainโ€™t Like Usโ€™.  And given what has happened since then, we have apparently burned the remaining bridges between us.  The result we witness today is that Americaโ€™s radicalized Left (now dominated by the socialists Sanders, Warren, Waters, Ocasio-Cortez, โ€ฆ) wants simply to subjugate its Right, while the Right is desperately looking for peaceful solutions in which both sides can live side-by-side, each practicing their own values and mores in cultural and commercial constructs that define their worldviews.

[31aug18 update]  Mr Steven Frisch has joined us in discussing the quo vadis question โ€“ well almost.  (He is a progressive and has been a major antagonist for years on these pages, and repeated that role on the cited RL Crabb blog.)  He answers the Democrat goals question (twice) and I present them below in their expanded form.

No poverty: expand ethical capitalism and democracy
Zero hunger: expand ethical capitalism and democracy
Good health and well-being: invest the proceeds in people
Quality education: invest the proceeds in people 
Gender equality: give women equal rights
Clean water and sanitation: stop pouring shit into our water 
Decent work and economic growth: expand ethical capitalism and democracy
Reduced inequalities: share the proceeds more equitably 
Sustainable cities and communities: recognize that resources have limits
Climate action: stop pouring shit into our air
Peace, justice and strong institutions: cooperation instead of war
Partnerships for the goals: leave you fools in the dustbin.

His readings and, presumably, education drive him to the conclusion that these goals are unique to collectivists and not shared by conservatives.  In fact, he claims that on RR such a world has never been contemplated, let alone approaches to its achievement explored.  I can only attribute that error to either his reading skills or the urge to promote the established progressive narrative.  The 12-year record of these pages stand in stark contrast to his politicized assertions.

Even a casual perusal of the listed goals reveals them to be tautological platitudes that are embraced by every politician of every hue (yes, even Lenin spoke of the ones applicable to his place and time).  They are the kind of โ€˜motherhood and apple pieโ€™ shibboleths that speak most strongly to Democrat-generated constituencies doomed by Democrats to live in festering urban plantations.  In there they have been taught to believe themselves to be victims by their sinecured leaders, but for exactly the wrong reasons.

Seeing that list of goals in the comment stream launched a number of more astute RR readers to ask the obvious question and point to the obvious answers โ€“ how do we achieve these goals, and what is the history of past attempts by collectivists (socialists, communists, โ€ฆ) to get there.  Their centrally planned and ruthlessly executed paths have always involved the Stalinist mantra โ€“ โ€˜To make an omelet, you first have to crack a few eggs.โ€™  The uncountable eggs cracked over the last century number in the hundreds of millions, with uncountable more hundreds of millions of stifled and dreary lives condemned to wholesale national gulags from which attempted escape was a capital offense.

The Frisches of our country cannot and therefore dare not describe how they will โ€œexpand ethical capitalism and democracyโ€, what โ€œproceedsโ€ from where they will โ€œinvest in peopleโ€, what additional โ€œequal rightsโ€ for women they have in mind, and how will these be enforced, how will whose โ€œproceedsโ€ be โ€œshared more equallyโ€, by what means will excess โ€œshitโ€ be determined and kept from our air and water, and finally what magic formula have collectivists, who have been this planetโ€™s prime warmongers, suddenly discovered, short of an omnipotent global tyranny, that will ensure โ€œcooperation instead of warโ€.

All these leftwing elitists can tell us is a repeat of what they have always promised the lightly read and historically innocent – โ€˜This time it will be different, this time we will do it right.โ€™.   And that again is the old refrain of the Democratic Party today as it proudly raises the socialist banners for the long march to its government of โ€œpeace, justice, and strong institutionsโ€.  From these strong institutions, bestowed by our enlightened betters, will issue a new and improved constitution that will open with โ€˜You, the People, โ€ฆโ€™.

Posted in , , , ,

144 responses to “Quo Vadis Democrats? (updated 31aug18)”

  1. George Rebane Avatar

    Hey! Cut the military service bullshit, and stick to the topic.

    Like

  2. Paul Emery Avatar

    so I can add Greek white Supremacist to the list of characterizations you apply to me Todd. Do yo have any idea how stupid you sound?
    Never said I joined to avoid Viet Nam Todd.
    show me where I did,
    I’m done with this topic . Boring. A draft avoider trying to put down someone who served six years in the Reserves and was honorably discharged. The Vets watching this are astounded by Todds lack of patriotism.

    Like

  3. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Can!t say patriotism, itโ€™s a dog whistle for white ptiveledge racism nowadays. Unless you are a Patriot, then you donโ€™t give a ratโ€™s ass about what they say no more. ๐Ÿ™‚

    Like

  4. L Avatar
    L

    Don’t know what to make of this. I was a reservist (1965-71)weekend warrior, active duty 2yrs, HHC Berlin. Some get lucky, some don’t. You never know about anyone…L

    Like

  5. L Avatar
    L

    Know an LTC in Tuscon (Army), gets deployed about once every four years, o/w he and wife work at the VA. Different reserve under volunteer circumstances. L

    Like

  6. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    Frisch’s phantasies:
    No poverty
    Zero hunger
    Good health and well-being.
    Quality education.
    Gender equality.
    Clean water and sanitation.
    Decent work and economic growth.
    Reduced inequalities.
    Sustainable cities and communities.
    Climate action*.
    Peace, justice and strong institutions.
    Partnerships for the goals
    The best way to work towards those goals are free minds and free markets, not putting progressives in control. And… there is no free lunch along the way.
    *Climate action isn’t under the control of CO2, but it will take a few more years of failed predictions from the likes of Michael Mann and Gavin Schmidt to nullify the issue for good.

    Like

  7. George Rebane Avatar

    Greg 107am – youโ€™ve always been hopeful on the decline of climate hysteria – I not so much. Can you share some of the evidence that gives that hope?

    Like

  8. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    Folks like Soros and the big wigs at the UN are pushing the ‘climate change’ hysteria for their one-world dream. There have been many in the higher ranks that have been very forthright about not caring about the science of it. Their stated goal is to get rid of capitalism. Folks like Frisch will not face any of this nor comment on it. It’s swiped away as ‘talking points’. Frisch is just a useful idiot. He has wonderful ‘goals’ but can not articulate them beyond the most vague of terms. As an example: “Climate action: stop pouring shit into our air”
    By ‘shit’ I will have to assume he means particulates, chemicals and other sundry pollutants not found in the atmosphere before the industrial age. This would necessitate a complete halt in all manned aviation beyond a handful of fairly useless over-sized model kits. Not to mention a collapse of almost all societies around the globe. Yet this is his stated goal and off he goes in life feeling smug and superior for it. We have already had decades of failed predictions by the ‘experts’ and it seems to have no never-mind on the likes of Frisch.
    Until the globalists and one-worldists come up with another scheme to frighten the masses towards enslavement, the climate change drum will be beaten.
    “The best way to work towards those goals are free minds and free markets, not putting progressives in control. And… there is no free lunch along the way.”
    Amen.

    Like

  9. โ€™โ€™โ€™Mโ€™โ€™โ€™ Avatar
    โ€™โ€™โ€™Mโ€™โ€™โ€™

    ,,,whoa!!! Someone is obsessed with Dr Rochelle Guitierrez. I had to google her name and the first (((most viewed???))) link was a Fox News link.
    Gotta love how Guitierrez looms large in GeorgeRโ€™s mind and how she becomes (((in his mind))) a โ€˜โ€™โ€™leading lightโ€™โ€™โ€™ of Lefties even though she is not mainstream in any way.
    One has to wonder why the obsession with an obscure college professor who has some far out views.
    Anything to move the narrative forward no matter how misguided it might be appears to be the answer.

    Like

  10. scenes Avatar
    scenes

    re: Dr Rochelle Gutierrez
    She shows up at about number 12 in my search, perhaps it’s a reflection of where you spend your time online.
    โ€œOn many levels, mathematics itself operates as Whiteness. Who gets credit for doing and developing mathematics, who is capable in mathematics, and who is seen as part of the mathematical community is generally viewed as White,โ€ Gutierrez argued.
    Gutierrez also worries that algebra and geometry perpetuate privilege, fretting that โ€œcurricula emphasizing terms like Pythagorean theorem and pi perpetuate a perception that mathematics was largely developed by Greeks and other Europeans.”
    Well, she does sound perfectly ridiculous. The frightening thing is to what extent this kind of ‘scholarship’ appears to be ingrained in modern universities.

    Like

  11. scenes Avatar
    scenes

    “She shows up at about number 12 in my search”
    By that, I mean in Fox News.

    Like

  12. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    GR-652am
    Why my optimism for the long term?
    “… sooner or later a false belief bumps up against solid reality, usually on a battlefield.โ€ – George Orwell 1948

    Like

  13. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    California 45 for Congress was highlighted in the SACBEE today. That is Mimi Walters area. Anyway, the article was a puff piece for Ms. Porter, a democrat socialist protege’ of Pocahontas. The main interviewee was a supposed R who is upset that Trump is the President. The article is so biased it appears the “journalist” was disregarding the R’s that did vote for Mimi and Trump. The is a microcosm of why we have no faith in the news media. You can sense the glee the reporter has for a victory by the extremist Porter. My guess is it stays R.

    Like

  14. โ€™โ€™โ€™Mโ€™โ€™โ€™ Avatar
    โ€™โ€™โ€™Mโ€™โ€™โ€™

    ,,,why do we have a local hospital run by wackydoodle religious fanatics???
    https://www.theunion.com/opinion/columns/diane-walker-catholic-backed-dignity-health-lobbies-against-right-to-die/

    Like

  15. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    M you are a racist pig. The CEO of Dignity is a very well qualifed back man. Shame on you.

    Like

  16. George Rebane Avatar

    ToddJ 1031am – Now we have to be careful here Mr Juvinall in calling M a “racist pig” because of his stance on ‘right to die’ conflicts with that of of Dignity Health, whose head just happens to be black. That is the kind of logic the Left always uses against the Right, and hereabout abounds from the comments of our leftist readers including Mr M. I beseech you to take a higher road.

    Like

  17. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Willo do

    Like

  18. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Will do, actually I use hyperbole to get their attention and give them back what they usually push on the right. I know it is petty but I get great responses from them as they back pedal when confronted with their own tactics.

    Like

  19. George Rebane Avatar

    Gregory 838am – Quite true, but time spans of “sooner or later” matter. Many in 1919 predicted the imminent downfall of Marxist Bolshevism. It took over 70 years, and by its active remnants and resurgence in minds of the West’s young and ignorant, it is far from dead today. As one of our commenters noted, until the Left has a substitute idee fixe for promoting global government, it will continue beating the climate change drum (with California, of course, being its poster-child drum major).
    M 754am – Mr M again reminds us with an illustration of the depth and breadth of his readings.

    Like

  20. Paul Emery Avatar

    Scott
    Our host also has “wonderful goals” and also “can not articulate them beyond the most vague of terms”. For example he speaks of free trade but our current President has done more to undermine that concept of any President in recent history. And environmental conditions get completely ignored if they in any conflict with so called the capitalism which i don’t believe represents true capitalism in a modern culture.
    My views are pragmatic, which I reflected in my 7:52. Government historically has not been the friend of the common people and primarily serves as the agent of the ruling class to maintain and expand on their wealth and power. that certainly was the case in the USSR and China and others for example.
    The Dems need to win the house to create gridlock. that’s the best way to temper the power of runaway government. So I say go Dems in the fall.
    Green Libertarians believe in the power of an enlightened culture to take care of human needs and the environment without the necessity of government being in charge.

    Like

  21. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    I’ve a keyboard now….
    Outside of fully involved thoughtworlds such as the formerly Golden State and Brussels, the climate change rallying cry is already dying out and I suspect many Dems go along so as to not rile the enforcers amongst them ready to pounce on apostates.
    Of course the cool August just past is only weather, while the hot July was widely reported as a harbinger of Climate Change, even though it wasn’t historically all that hot if you weren’t actually on fire.
    We have the solar dual-dynamo model
    https://phys.org/news/2015-07-irregular-heartbeat-sun-driven-dynamo.html
    explaining how the Maunder Minimum came about and an awfully good prediction that it’s just a decade away from reappearing in full force, and we have good data on correlations of sunspots (a measure of heliosphere electromagnetic energy) and Earth temperatures and how that is coupled to the formation of low cloud cover.
    In ten years, the heat waves used to scare people into submission are going to look pretty good in hindsight. Cold kills quickly; imagine how many will die if a winter harvest fails. Then think about the failure of a summer harvest season.
    It’s going to be a bumpy ride.

    Like

  22. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    “Green Libertarians believe in the power of an enlightened culture to take care of human needs and the environment without the necessity of government being in charge.”
    -punchy 1143am
    In other words, “Green Libertarians” believe in local coercion. Like your pushing for non-progressives to move out of your town to let the place be stone-cold Blue.
    That isn’t very libertarian of you, Paul.

    Like

  23. Paul Emery Avatar

    Ignoring the manifestations of human abuse of the earth is an example of my 11:42, Example:
    Coral Reefs Disappearing Faster Than Thought
    The reefs in this region, called the Indo-Pacific, are disappearing at a rate of 1 percent per yearโ€”nearly 600 square miles of reef have disappeared per year since the late 1960s, researchers found.
    “We have already lost half of the world’s reef-building corals,” said study team leader John Bruno of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
    https://www.livescience.com/1750-coral-reefs-disappearing-faster-thought.html
    Here’s a list of global warming effects if anyone cares to plough through it.
    Top 10 Surprising Results of Global Warming
    https://www.livescience.com/11350-top-10-surprising-results-global-warming.html

    Like

  24. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Global warming hysteria again? Jeeze!

    Like

  25. Paul Emery Avatar

    Gregory
    You are referring to my urging Todd to relocate up North somewhere. That was a kind gesture to assist him in his mental health. He’s having a hard time right now and it will only get worse. I would prefer he stay around as an old timer that can tell tales of the good old days as he saw them but it’s his choice.
    I like having you around and enjoy our conversations much more than the exchanges on this blog,

    Like

  26. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 1142pm – That was a low blow Paul. If anything, all of my prescriptions have been and continue to be operational and pragmatic. Can you point to any of them that have been left dangling “beyond most vague of terms” without back-up sufficient within the scope of an online blog? If all I did was provide conservetarian pabulum here, then you and the rest would quickly abandon these pages. It is the specifics that give RR readers the purchase within which to sink their critical teeth or pin their own versions of the solutions I proffer.

    Like

  27. Paul Emery Avatar

    Todd
    Do you have any concern for the disappearance of coral reefs for example or is it fake news?

    Like

  28. Paul Emery Avatar

    George
    For example can you give me one example of a health care system anywhere in the world that meets you’re prescriptions of being functional, economically sustainable and without government support. That’s a start.

    Like

  29. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 1211pm – Yes, as I have argued many times, America’s is still the best with its warts and all. And I’ve give detailed prescriptions (many from smarter heads than mine) on how to make it even better. However, it’s the ‘better’ aspect of healthcare where I part company with you and your socialist cohorts. We have completely different social utilities for healthcare, which in the attempt to illustrate, if you’ll recall, I even went as far as to quantify and ask for your inputs, which invitation you ignored.
    Care to try again?

    Like

  30. scenes Avatar
    scenes

    “Green Libertarians believe in the power of an enlightened culture to take care of human needs and the environment without the necessity of government being in charge.”
    Ahh. I finally understand.
    ‘Green Libertarian’ is a synonym for ‘Amish’.
    Well hell man, knock yourself out. Grab 100 or so friends, jointly buy a piece of property, set up some kind of shared insurance pool. Stay off the internet and worrying about everyone else for once.
    There’s absolutely nothing in the world keeping you from living as you see fit if that is your aim. Of course, you’d have to do something useful for the community. That’s always the crux of the matter I think, especially if you are light on practical skills.

    Like

  31. scenes Avatar
    scenes

    re: paying for healthcare
    “Yes, as I have argued many times, America’s is still the best with its warts and all. ”
    As long as emergency rooms and hospitals are forced to take any old person who wanders in, I think you can make a good case for forcing everyone to buy health insurance. The Swiss system doesn’t look terrible, but on the other hand, they’re all Swiss. The average US citizen doesn’t strike me as being as well behaved.
    Of course, I’d have ICE on speed dial when illegals were discharged.
    Not to pick on Paul, I view him more as a rhetorical device, but the Pauls of the world want the best US-style healthcare at no personal expense. That’s where the financial rubber always hits the road.

    Like

  32. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    Punchy 1155am
    From your link: “The pattern of loss across the entire study area indicates that coral loss is a global phenomenon, likely brought on by large-scale stressors such as climate change, coral disease, predators, nutrient pollution and overfishing.”
    Is “likely brought on” by a whole list of things thrown into the fan. It also left out the fact that a chemical commonly added to UV blocking sunscreen cremes KILLS coral at damn low concentrations and has been implicated in Australian reef losses. And the Pauls of the world, fancying themselves Green Libertarians run off screaming “save the coral” by stopping people from using petroleum fuels or turning on their heat in the winter. Walking and shivering is good for you.
    Scenes, good catch. “Green Libertarian” is the Amish, without the dreary fundamentalist Protestantism. Different hair shirts.

    Like

  33. Paul Emery Avatar

    So Scenes you’re response to the diminishing Coral Reefs around Florida is that it’s not really a serious problem and that Nature will take care of it. Nature sure will Scenes. To quote from the bible-“Men come and go but Earth abides” (simplified version from a famous Sci Fi wrtten in 1948-Earth Abides).
    Did you read the link you sent me? If you did you would have read this
    global warming really does look a serious threat to the reef
    “The barrier reefโ€™s ability to resurrect itself is encouraging. But whether it could rise from the dead a sixth time is moot. The threat now is different. It is called bleaching and involves the tiny animals, known as polyps, which are the living part of a reef, ejecting their symbiotic algae. These algae provide much of a polypโ€™s food, but also generate toxins if the temperature gets too high, in which case the polyp throws them out. That causes the coral to lose its colour.
    Polyps can tolerate occasional bleaching, but if it goes on too long, then they die. In the short term, therefore, global warming really does look a serious threat to the reef. It would, no doubt, return if and when the sea temperature dropped again. But when that would be, who knows?

    Like

  34. Paul Emery Avatar

    So Gregory for the sake of discussion let me agree with you that Global warming may not be a threat to Coral reefs. Well something is unless you deny the research. should we as a planet determine what that is and take action to stop or slow it it? I contend we need to. what is your view?
    Lets continue this in the fresh sandbox..

    Like

  35. scenes Avatar
    scenes

    re: PaulE
    Hey, don’t look at me. I don’t doubt that there are large scale human effects on the environment. Too many people. Of course, ice ages tend to completely wipe out reefs, regardless of size, and happen on a fairly regular basis. For all I know, greenhouse gases have put off the next cooling cycle.
    It’s a damned shame that the US Left has used ecological concerns as a way to gain power rather than to accomplish anything of value. The US produces something like 17% of worldwide CO2, China is twice that. Asian and African rivers produce 93% of ocean plastic. Answer? Yet another bit of PR on KVMR for a Save the Environment Concert. Move millions of people to the first world where they can pollute a bit more. Buy electric cars in order to push the pollution to a foreign country.
    Honestly, I curse the Left for this to some extent. They’ve gathered up any interest in reducing human footprint on the planet and spend all that political capital on things that don’t make a bit of f*cking difference. A pox on your house. I don’t know if it’s innumeracy or just flat stupidity.

    Like

  36. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    PE at 11:42 – Ah yes – you defend Frisch by simply attacking George. In other words – you admit I’m correct in my assessment of Frisch and you have no rebuttal.
    “Our host also has “wonderful goals” and also “can not articulate them beyond the most vague of terms”. For example he speaks of free trade but our current President has done more to undermine that concept of any President in recent history.”
    That statement doesn’t even make logical sense, Paul.
    What goals George has and how he articulates them has absolutely nothing to do with any president. When did George ever say that Trump’s trade policies are exactly the same as his trade policies? In fact, George has openly expressed doubts about Trump’s trade policies.
    ” Government historically has not been the friend of the common people and primarily serves as the agent of the ruling class to maintain and expand on their wealth and power.”
    Well – in the US we citizens elect that govt so that’s what the majority must want. The citizens are the ruling class.
    “The Dems need to win the house to create gridlock. that’s the best way to temper the power of runaway government. So I say go Dems in the fall.”
    Ah yes – the Green Libertarian once again favors the Dems. Because of course – Paul’s no friend of the Dems. Ever.
    “Green Libertarians believe in the power of an enlightened culture to take care of human needs and the environment without the necessity of government being in charge.”
    Oh Paul – you’ll just have to expand on THAT statement. Does that mean no govt at all? Anarchy?
    Or will there be a govt that ‘isn’t in charge’? Then who will be?
    Paul – please, please, please, let us all know when this enlightened culture comes down the gangplank of the spaceship that arrives from whatever planet you obviously live on.

    Like

  37. scenes Avatar
    scenes

    gregory: “Scenes, good catch. “Green Libertarian” is the Amish, without the dreary fundamentalist Protestantism. Different hair shirts.”
    I think the Protestantism has value, even if it doesn’t represent physical reality. That social glue is gold.
    I’d say that the Green Libertarians are different than the Amish mostly in lack of practical skills and in general laziness. Stick Paul and 100 of his friends on a fertile piece of land with some draft animals and tools, and they starve to death. They would learn the lesson of the village commons up close and personal.
    I do give that challenge to Paul, though. There is absolutely no reason you couldn’t set up your own ideal world. The tax load would be minimal. California state law, building code, environmental regs, are, by definition to a Leftist, trivial. Why in the hell don’t you build a Green Libertarian Eden? Heck, I’ll even give you a book showing which end of a hammer to hold.

    Like

  38. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    Punch 110pm
    “So Gregory for the sake of discussion let me agree with you that Global warming may not be a threat to Coral reefs. Well something is unless you deny the research. should we as a planet determine what that is and take action to stop or slow it it? I contend we need to. what is your view?”
    Paul, we are not a planet. We are all sometimes well behaved chimpanzees, some are smarter and better behaved than others, and I doubt we could come to an agreement as to which are which.
    Your (note that’s ‘your’ not ‘you’re’) bright, shiny object (BSO) at the moment is this “research” positing a 1% loss of coral reef a year, and a list of possible causes that leaves an obvious cause off the list:
    https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00244-015-0227-7
    It’s toxic (meaning it KILLS coral) down to 62 parts per trillion concentration.
    Of course, that abstract also calls on “climate change” to appease the grant giving gods of the NSF in a prayer for more funding.
    So sayeth the lord.

    Like

  39. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Hey Paul Emery, there was once a species called dinosaurs that lived on the planet for 150 million years. And not one is left. And there was a single land mass called GAIA I think or giganto or something, and now that has split up into a number of continents. And all before man was here. But if Paul Emery wants to think this is all happening becaise some little warm blooded man and woman are making it happen (if it is) then go ahead and have your nerves stressed. Mine are just fine.

    Like

  40. Paul Emery Avatar

    So conditions of coral reefs no problem according to Todd and Gregory. Got it.

    Like

  41. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    Todd, that’s silly. Of course there are dinosaurs left.
    I just finished a lovely brunch of fried, scrambled dinosaur eggs, with cheese and avocado. Yum! And the eggs are available cage free and organic in your local supermarkets and from your local farmer at over twice the price.
    Dinosauria is a clade, not a species. Modern birds are the surviving members of the clade Avialae, a feathered sub clade of Dinosauria.

    Like

  42. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    Paul, you’re showing yourself unworthy of the title homo sapiens sapiens. It’s pan troglodyte troglodyte for you. Try to keep up.
    Nowhere did I write the condition of the coral reefs are no problem, nor did I infer it. What I did try to infer is that you’re a stupid poopyheaded chimp unsuited to making decisions for the community. Any community.

    Like

  43. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Thanks for straightening me out Gregory. I’ll go have some dinosaur right now too.

    Like

  44. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Regarding coral reefs. I am sad that things come and go that we all like Paul Emery. I just lost a good friend to pancreatic cancer and I feel terrible for him but he was prepared and is now in his heaven. Reefs are natural things that have enemies and diseases and predators and many other things that attack them. Just like humans have many things as well. It is sad but real.

    Like

  45. Paul Emery Avatar

    Fair enough response Gregory then what should we do about the conditions of the Coral reefs?
    Got your message Todd. Let them go and don’t do nothing to try to save them. Sad but real

    Like

  46. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Paul Emery, putting words in mouths again. I say you need to get your rubber dingy and travel to the reefs of concern and hangout and protest. Do something rather than your usual blathering.

    Like

  47. Paul Emery Avatar

    Typical Todd doing a personal attack and avoiding the question. You’re dismissed Todd. You can go home and play in you’re frog pond.

    Like

Leave a comment