Rebane's Ruminations
July 2018
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George Rebane

The Opioid insanity.  We now are in courts suing the big pharma makers of opioid pain killers, accusing them of being the cause of the tragic opioid deaths epidemic across the land.  Big pharma neither delivers nor gratuitously promotes the delivery of opioids to those who die from their reckless use.  In the dissemination chain, the distributors and prescribing physicians are getting a pass from the righteous Left; why?  Because the Left is only interested in deep pockets which big pharma enjoys, and the leftwing sleazebag lawyers will enjoy a big hunk of those monies if they get the desired verdicts from stupid juries.

Big high-tech corporations lean markedly to the Left.  Most people with 3-digit IQs know that. So now we have these leftwing corporations bolstering their leftwing agendas by “shadow banning” conservative tweeters.  A list of Republican congress critters who promote Trump have already presented evidence of exactly this when they discovered that suddenly their accounts could not be found on Twitter.  Meanwhile the land’s lamebrains still believe the Zuckerbergs and Dorseys claiming that these social media sites are “platforms for free speech”.

The current Song of Socialists performed by talking heads is that ‘We’re not there yet’, when asked to talk about Trump’s progress toward everything from rapprochement with Russia, to denuclearization of the Fat Kid, to the promise of a new world trade order that benefits the US.  These deep thinkers are trying to convince their audiences that the administration and all Republicans are out there busy stocking up on firecrackers for the big celebration tomorrow night on the Capitol Mall, when that is not even close.  Bad mouthing what Trump gets done every day is the only thing left that they have to offer, because the Left has nothing short of Plan Venezuela to offer Americans.  And about that they know to keep their mouths shut.

[update] Speaking of the Great Divide, H.W. Crocker III writes ‘America’s Next Civil War Will Be Worse Than Our Last’.  He brings out some good comparisons between the America of 1860 and what we are today, but he does not call out the real important differences that have brought us beyond the tipping point.  And most significantly, if people break out their shootin’ irons this time, then the war will truly be a civil war and not the War for Southern Independence misnamed.  (H/T to reader on the article)

[27jul18 update]  Prescribed burns make all the sense in the world, and are worth the risk of unexpected losses.  But our federal and statewide governments are literally too stupid, and their politicians too cowardly to plan and execute prescribed burns.  It is a simple trade-off that politicians and lawyers have purposely made complex, and for them, profitable.  Through over-zealous fire abatement policies, we have let our public lands become over grown to an extent that nature has never permitted.  So when the expected wildfires come, they cause extraordinary damage to life and property at costs orders of magnitude above what controlled prescribed burns would cost.  And yet we continue year after year to spout fire prevention pabulum to homeowners in fire areas and suffer the ensuing wildfire, without doing anything to attack the fundamental cause of the fires – too much fuel too densely distributed in easy reach of the foolish and felonious.  (All this in the last great century of Man.)

Anti-Kavanaugh hyper-hysteria grows.  Sen Corey Booker (D-NJ) announced today (FN) that he opposes Judge Kavanaugh’s nomination on the basis that both the judge and his nomination to SCOTUS are “evil”.  He stongly exhorts his fellow Dems that there is “no middle ground” on opposing this nomination, you’re either for or against “evil”.  This is truly a twofer for Republicans – another Dem shows himself to be deranged in his service in Washington (why elect more of them?), and the confirmation that the Team Schumer/Pelosi has run out of substantive ammo, which they never had, to stop Judge Kavanaugh’s confirmation by the Senate before the midterm elections.

Posted in , ,

80 responses to “Ruminations – 27jul18 (updated 28jul18)”

  1. ’’’M’’’ Avatar
    ’’’M’’’

    ,,,George,,,re shadowbanning,,,looks like you have been hacked by Brietbat’s Milo Yiannopoulos!!!
    ,,,oh my, Milo has some unnamed sources!!!
    https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/02/16/exclusive-twitter-shadowbanning-is-real-say-inside-sources/
    I posted the non-trigger word, non-dog whistle article yesterday,
    https://www.cnet.com/news/shadow-banning-what-it-is-and-what-its-not/

    Like

  2. ’’’M’’’ Avatar
    ’’’M’’’

    ,,,re opioid lawsuits,,, are all lawyers leftists also??? Good to know that only left wing kids are dying from overdoses and no conservatives are pissed off.
    The fentanyl that has been killing many is often made in China and smuggled in…nothing new here…
    Kids are getting opioids from their parent’s medicine cabinet.
    If there are black market opioids, pharmaceutical companies could put gps on their opioid shipments to see which trucks they fall off of.

    Like

  3. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: ’’’M’’’ | 27 July 2018 at 08:11 AM
    Kind of you dugglypoof! I know how easily triggered your intellectual ….heh….descendants can be!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIpkdusnIkE

    Like

  4. scenes Avatar
    scenes

    “Big high-tech corporations lean markedly to the Left.”
    I agree, but it’s rather a shame that ‘tech’ has come to mean ‘companies that build large software systems to sell ads on the internet’.
    I wonder why that is sometimes. At first blush, perhaps the difference is one between people who work purely in symbols vs those whose work touches the real world. It’s isn’t like the folks at Schlumberger are going to trend radically (D) and I’d say there’s as much ‘tech’ at an aerospace company as there is at google. To some extent it’s a matter of semantics.
    No doubt you could take a cheek scraping and see voting tendencies in DNA, and those people tend towards certain professions.
    re: “M” @8:11AM Shadowbanning is real, but is a subtle idea. It’s better just to view it all as censorship on web social media monopolies. The automatic censors are written by people with strong bias and sites with mobs produce predictable results (check out /r/politics on reddit sometime, it’s all-trumphate all the time).
    The thing that’s a shame about all of this is that we live in an era when the Left (and it’s as Left as it ever has been, pretty remarkable really) and the professional bureaucracy, allies for a while but not permanently, are being given the keys to a total surveillance society. It’s probably our last chance to correct this, but my hopes aren’t high.

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  5. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: ’’’M’’’ | 27 July 2018 at 08:23 AM
    Oh there’s that “brain” of yours again……beset by something…..!

    Like

  6. scenes Avatar
    scenes

    As a side note, it’s interesting to consider the parallel tracks of media censorship, partly exerted by biased human censors and partly software written by people with a POV vs. the uproar over AI, particularly the law enforcement type, which tends towards ‘prejudice’ when fed raw data.
    How are these two cases different?

    Like

  7. ’’’M’’’ Avatar
    ’’’M’’’

    Trump Youth,,,I am beset by whatever GeorgeR is beset by…

    Like

  8. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: ’’’M’’’ | 27 July 2018 at 08:45 AM
    ……beset……so often beset……..woe…….

    Like

  9. George Rebane Avatar

    re M 811am – ‘shaddow banning’ is not the same as a site publishing politically one-sided content. Again, this is a nuance that some find hard to detect.
    scenes 833am – yes, ‘high tech’ most often is the label for social media sites founded on simple hunches (and some fairly straightforward algorithmics), some of which catch on and grow and others don’t. Thanks to my most recent business affairs, I’m very familiar with that game, some of its losers and winners, and generally its fortunes and failures. The great celebrated visionaries of outfits like Facebook and Twitter have less in their intellectual kits than meets their carefully cultured eyes. As Tevye has taught us, “… when you’re rich, they really think you know.”

    Like

  10. Don Bessee Avatar
    Don Bessee

    Its worth noting that the vast majority of OD/deaths are people who are not in a MD managed pain control regimen.
    😉

    Like

  11. Don Bessee Avatar
    Don Bessee

    Did this –
    3. Tweets from bad-faith actors who intend to manipulate or divide the conversation should be ranked lower
    How is it not terrifying to have a mega-corporation run by those who live in a Silicon Valley bubble choosing who is acting in bad faith? And what is Twitter’s definition of “manipulate or divide”? Is challenging the conventional wisdom, throwing a figurative rock through the window of the status quo, considered “manipulative and divisive”?
    So, thanks to this statement coming straight from the horse’s mouth, we now know for certain that Twitter is not only shadow banning — and shadow banning tweets from specific accounts we have requested to see in our feeds — Twitter is going much, much further with this corporate censorship than many imagined.
    https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2018/07/27/twitter-you-may-have-to-do-more-work-to-find-people-that-definitely-arent-shadowbanned/
    Cause this?
    https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2018/07/27/twitter-stock-drops-more-than-18-in-morning-trading/
    😉

    Like

  12. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Shadow banning does not exist. It’s a glitch!
    Take a nice Mom on Twitter. Has a following, not a huge following, but a decent following nonetheless.. Not a flamer, not a hater, never uses profanity. She is invisible to the outside world. Not banned, account not suspended. The problem is she is a pro-life advocate, complete with pics of cute babies. She is shut down. Not shadow banned, it’s a glitch! Can’t be seen no more outside of her friends.
    Take a conservative site like The Blaze. Not huge, but has a tailored following nonetheless. They claim that 5% on the links and content they post on their FB page actually can be seen by outsiders. 5%. It’s not shadow banning, it’s a glitch! Just on FB, not their other domain site.
    Take me. I hear a interesting story on the radio or a video montage. So I want to check it out for myself. I Google the site, complete with the name.com. The first five “news”items that pop up are various fact checker sites warning me it’s fakenews, beware, not recommended to go there. After that, the next two “news” sites are alternative choices. May we interest you in these, instead? Finally, on the lower half of the page I find the site I am seeking, spelled exactly as I typed it in, complete with the name.com. Not banned, just harder to find. Hide and seek.
    It’s akin to walking into a diner and ordering a chicken fried steak smothered in gravy. Thick gravy. The waitress pauses and suggests perhaps I would like a nice big bowl of delicious soup. I say “thank you, but i’ll take the chicken fried steak.” She asks if I would like the fresh salad bar instead. Nope, and I would like extra gravey on that chicken fried steak if possible. She then suggests I might be more interested in the skinless chicken breast on a bed or rice. “No thank you and good bye.”
    Funny that Zuckenberg testified how important it is to him to protect user privacy, stop hate speech, and rid FB of fakenews and Russian bots to ensure the integrity of our sacred elections. Fakenews really was a criticical issue to him and the Senators. Such a top priority and heartfelt concern that he sent teams out to fan across the nation to pick the brains of the best and brightest in our nation for their expertise, thoughts, and ideas to weed out fakenews. Yep, those experts all were esteemed professors found on our elite college campuses. Therein lies the problem.
    It’s not shadow banning, it’s a glitch. Nothing wrong with the input. Must be a disgruntled factory worker. The Matrix is not perfect.
    https://patriotpost.us/articles/57352-new-revelations-of-twitter-facebook-censoring
    Companion article.:
    “But add to that Facebook’s poor handling of the disinformation controversy — its new algorithms have proven to throttle traffic on conservative feeds and it even blocked the Declaration of Independence as “hate speech” — as well as the massive cost increases to advertise on the website. With all that blundering, it’s not surprising to see the company taking this hit.”
    https://patriotpost.us/articles/57388-facebooks-face-plant

    Like

  13. "M" Avatar
    “M”

    George,,,doesn’t your 928 belong in the Fairness and Leftwing talk radio???
    Isn’t ”’a site publishing politically one-sided content”’ what all people on both sides of the political coin accuse the The Union and all other media outlets in print, on the air, or through the fiber???

    Like

  14. rl crabb Avatar

    Once again, George shows his true colors by attempting to define the Civil War as “that war of southern independence” rather than a war that freed millions of indentured slaves. Yes, there really is a Great Divide here.

    Like

  15. Walt Avatar

    You would know plenty about “shadow banning” Dougy, MANY have done that to you. And so have I. All your sock puppets have been blocked.
    (well,, most anyway.) I know when you around,, plenty of “this user blocked”.

    Like

  16. "M" Avatar
    “M”

    ,,,lol waller,,,you just can’t handle the truth plain and simple,,,
    yours, Lavender

    Like

  17. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    The black slaves freed by the Union weren’t “indentured”, Crabby. Indentured servants in north America were mostly white folk who sold their future work for a chunk of change to buy passage to the new world… and were freed by the Revolutionary War, called a war for independence by we, the victors.
    The indentured signed a contract not so curiously called an indenture.

    Like

  18. Walt Avatar

    Right Dougy. All that TROLL cr*ap is truth? Really?
    Funny, Trump is still President. Handle THAT truth.

    Like

  19. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Speaking of the War Between the States, or commonly known as The Civil War, get ready of Civil War 2.
    https://pjmedia.com/trending/democrat-on-campaign-trail-calls-2018-midterms-civil-war-2/

    Like

  20. scenes Avatar
    scenes

    “The current Song of Socialists”
    Here’s the current song. The hullaballoo starts at about 6:00
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPhmk4ZiVJM
    lol. It’s a beautiful thing.

    Like

  21. George Rebane Avatar

    rl crabb 104pm – My “true colors”??? You really don’t know, do you? Your ignorance of slavery (gregory 214pm) and the economic and political motivations for the ‘war between the states’ (a most innocent label) is on display here. To understand anything close to my true colors on the topic, you should spend some time with the late Shelby Foote who was America’s foremost historian on the Civil War (sic), and whose works were featured in a long-running series on PBS.
    Sadly in you limited purview, understanding that conflict in a manner other than that taught by the socialist Left is proof enough that racism is afoot.
    As a bit of departing pedagogy, a civil war is one in which two factions within a country (kingdom, nation-state, …) fight to gain control of the country and re-establish/retain its government. It is an historical reality that the US has never fought a civil war since the Confederacy never intended or wanted to rule the American landmass of 1860; they wanted to secede, per their interpretation of the Constitution, and become an independent state. And yes, slavery would have survived for a few more years in the CSA had they been successful.
    Today’s debate, apparently of which you are not a qualified participant, is whether such a secession is still permitted by our Constitution. Time to get a grip Bob before claiming to recognize other people’s “true colors”. Nevertheless, I fully agree with your last statement, and thanks for sharing your insights.

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  22. George Rebane Avatar

    M 1234pm – You are confusing the desire and actions to restrict speech by the ‘other side’ with outlets that take a decided bias in their coverage and commentary. The former is bad, the latter is engaging in free speech. Capice?
    My comment here expanded the consideration of restricting online free speech surreptitiously, and does not focus on how and why broadcast talk radio favors the Right. Hope that helps.

    Like

  23. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    GR 250pm
    I figured you’d be good for a spirited defense of yourself, but some do define “civil war” to be inclusive of wars for regional independence, so we have Crabby claiming you to be a racist because he defines the word one way (through knowledge or ignorance) and you claiming him to be ignorant of the true definition which is not universally held to be so.
    I’ll bet you and Crabby crack your eggs on different ends, too… me, I crack them in the middle. The Big-Endian/Little-Endian debate continues on in Intel vs. Motorola data ordering.

    Like

  24. Walt Avatar

    The great news Leftist media won’t let you hear.
    https://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/07/27/alfredo-ortiz-trump-is-vindicated-on-tariffs/
    Trump’s tariff war has been won! So much for the LIB and neverTrump doom and gloom.
    “This relationship will increase markets for U.S. small business exporters, who face E.U. tariffs that are roughly 40 percent higher than those imposed by the United States, according to World Trade Organization data. It will also allow U.S. consumers to purchase European goods at cheaper prices, putting more money in their pockets and stimulating the U.S. economy. Notably, the deal also includes promises from the E.U. to import more soybeans and natural gas.”
    Every attck on Trump or what he does, has come back to bite.. In spades.

    Like

  25. fish Avatar
    fish

    THE BEST AND THE BRIGHTEST: Surveillance footage shows one of President Obama’s senior officials following a woman around a DC Metro station and taking a picture up her skirt with his cell phone. A friend on Facebook comments: “See, this is how it works. Obama officials who get arrested and convicted of even pervy crimes get no news coverage at all. As the story says, ‘His arrest and conviction were never made public until DailyMail.com acquired the report of the investigation and the footage through a Freedom of Information Act request.’ Don’t tell me no White House reporter knew about this in July 2016. They knew. And now they’re too busy going after Brett Kavanaugh’s wife to even follow this up. The bastards.”
    Best and brightest indeed!
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5997025/Obama-advisor-William-Mendoza-seen-taking-picture-womans-skirt-DC-Metro.html

    Like

  26. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    A clarification before someone else gets to it… I went looking for backing afterwards, and found it wasn’t so clear cut that indentured servitude went away after the Revolution.
    While I had remembered being taught that indentured servitude was abolished after the Revolutionary War, but apparently not. Investors during and after the revolution didn’t think it a good bet and so incoming indentured fell off drastically, but the indentured already here stayed and indentures were legal. Good masters did see the contracts fullfilled and let the servants go, but not all. An 1833 federal law that abolished debtor’s prisons did away with most enforcement of indentures, and some states followed suit, but it did not go away completely until Abolition was made law.

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  27. George Rebane Avatar

    gregory 344pm – Labelling any and all conflicts with established authority of a jurisdiction a ‘civil war’ tremendously reduces the info carrying capacity of our language. Doing that would equate the Green Mountain Boys rebellion and other minor standoffs in our history with the 1860-65 war, and call all of them civil wars, when the proper definition prevents any of them being so.
    England did not see our revolution as being a civil war, which wasn’t, but simply an insurrection occurring in their sovereign territory. But Cromwell’s successful revolution felling the monarchy and establishing the ‘Commonwealth of England’ for a period was a true civil war; and so, of course, was the French Revolution.

    Like

  28. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    I can see certain points made about what exactly constitutes a ‘civil war’ but I’ll side with George on this one. The southern states wanted to secede from the Union, not take over the entire US. THAT would have constituted a civil war. They formed their own country complete with their own currency and army and began to wage war against the US. The coming (or here already) conflict will involve the entire country for the complete control of the country. Our military will be fractured along political lines and will not unite in one side or the other.
    The north’s purpose in our country’s bloody war of re-uniting the south by force was not to end slavery. Abe Lincoln said so. But of course, what the hell does he know?

    Like

  29. George Rebane Avatar

    ScottO 559pm – Yep, ol’ Abe made it clear that his reason to fight that terrible war and sacrifice all those lives was “to preserve the Union”. Making the 1863 Emancipation Proclamation real was a collateral benefit.

    Like

  30. Steve Frisch Avatar
    Steve Frisch

    While you guys are debating the nuance of how historians of different eras define a civil war (which is as much contextual as it is a matter of the scale of the conflict as well as defined by the taking up of arms against each other by citizens of the same nation) you’re missing the bigger point, that George’s use of the “War of Southern Independence” is a reflection of his racist world view.
    This is evidenced by the “Civil War was not about slavery” bullshit you guys are spouting here.
    The entire economic system the agrarian south was fighting to retain was built on human bondage and white supremacy, thus when you hear ‘they were fighting for economic reasons’ it was based on race.
    The entire southern social system was premised on the supremacy of white workers and landowners over blacks, including their exclusion from wages, property ownership, education and even family and marriage rights. Thus when you hear, “they were fighting for their way of life” it was based on race.
    The entire doctrine of states rights was premised on one right, the right of the states to perpetuate slavery; that was how it was embedded in the constitution, how it became a mantra of southern politicians, and how it has been used to excuse the fact that the RIGHT the states were seeking to reserve was the right of white supremacy.
    I might also add that the states that made up the Confederacy were not only seeking to retain slavery, they were seeking to expand and extend it as new states were formed out of the American west, which kind of puts rest to the ‘they just wanted to be left alone’ nonsense. Yep, they just wanted to be left alone–so they could own other human beings.
    George’s entire position can best be characterized as Confederate denialism, the perpetuation of a myth, and a shameless intentional race based historically inaccurate perversion of the truth.

    Like

  31. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    Ah, Steven Frisch. Perhaps you’d like to debate your claim that this note of yours under Crabb’s Commiefornia post didn’t have any personal attacks within:

    Steve Frisch says:
    May 14, 2017 at 3:35 am
    I almost added a caveat to this little essay, that I fully expected a small minded troll who views the world through a lens of self appointed intellectual superiority and a single minded jihadist focus on climate change, would find the spelling error. Oh, BTW, “worshiping at the altar of Smith…” wasn’t referring to you. I was really thinking way behind the tiny world of Goodknight.
    I am amazed every time you comment at just how small you are.

    Greg Goodknight says:
    May 14, 2017 at 9:14 am
    RL, that 5:29 am warning of your would have been more effective had there truly been a personal insult in my 5:42 pm, or had there been anything but personal insults in Frisch’s 3:35 am.
    Reply
    Steve Frisch says:
    May 14, 2017 at 9:25 am
    There were absolutely no “personal insults” in my 3:35 am post…

    Hmmm?
    Reading the comments at Crabb’s led me to Crabby’s BFF Chris Peterson trying to place a $20 bet with me that Trump wouldn’t make it to November 2018. Now that it’s all but assured that Trump will still be President in four months it would appear it would have been a good bet… if I thought Peterson would pay up.

    Like

  32. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    “…you’re missing the bigger point, that George’s use of the “War of Southern Independence” is a reflection of his racist world view.
    This is evidenced by the “Civil War was not about slavery” bullshit you guys are spouting here.”
    -Frisch 544am
    English MF… do you speak it?
    I don’t see the quote “Civil War was not about slavery” anywhere here outside your dredging it up out of whole cloth. More Frischian putting words in other’s mouths.
    Yes, the Civil War was about slavery and a number of other things, mostly involving the movement of little green pieces of paper.

    Like

  33. Steve Frisch Avatar
    Steve Frisch

    The entire set of comments by George and others is implying that the civil war was a question of secession and states rights and not white supremacy.
    You can’t dance with white nationalists like you usually do and not get dirty boys….if you act like racists we are going to call your racism.

    Like

  34. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: Steve Frisch | 28 July 2018 at 07:36 AM
    Good day for Steve……got to call his political adversaries racists! Down side….only about 8 people in the world are ever going to see it.
    Still about twice the exposure he would get by posting at Pork Linkersons site. So there’s that.

    Like

  35. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    “The entire set of comments by George and others is implying that the civil war was a question of secession and states rights and not white supremacy.”
    -Frisch 736am
    Stop splashing the mud around, Steve. Write without making up words to go into the mouths of others.

    Like

  36. scenes Avatar
    scenes

    GeorgeR: “Labelling any and all conflicts with established authority of a jurisdiction a ‘civil war’ tremendously reduces the info carrying capacity of our language.”
    That’s an interesting point, although you aren’t feeling enough guilt for having people who weren’t your ancestors own slaves. It’s rather like trying to decide whether Ceres is a planet.
    Maybe people like to think of a ‘civil war’ purely in terms of scale rather than as a conflict designed by both sides to take over the whole state. The intensity is another matter as you could argue that we are in a civil war right now. The history of slavery is, of course, just another weapon in that fight, so it’s hard to take anyone’s argument too seriously.
    In terms of the American Civil War (in common parlance), finding a one sentence ‘reason’ is as silly as usual. Slavery was as much a symptom as a cause and the split was for a mish mash of practical and emotional reasons. It isn’t like an infantryman from Iowa found himself burning houses with Sherman in order to bring freedom to slaves, you can easily see that in contemporary writings. By the same token, your average CSA soldier didn’t have much of a dog in that particular fight aside from a feeling of riding the tiger. The minute you let the slaves go all hell is going to break loose.
    Also, it isn’t like a large scale conflict is need for emancipation. Both Brazil and Russia pulled it off with the same problem of stealing property and power from the elite.
    Don’t get me wrong, slavery was obviously the major point of difference between the two sides.
    It always interested me that large scale anti-slavery philosophies hit at about the same time as the industrial revolution, a time when the economics of slaves would have become less favorable…however it really hadn’t hit hard at the agrarian level yet. There’s a logic in there somewhere, but I’m not sure what.

    Like

  37. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: scenes | 28 July 2018 at 07:48 AM
    Funny that …….how the whole practice was about to get wildly inefficient due to mechanization.
    …..and what are we going do with all of these people?!
    First rate post!

    Like

  38. scenes Avatar
    scenes

    Gregory “Stop splashing the mud around, Steve. Write without making up words to go into the mouths of others.”
    Oh well, it’s hard to lose a fight when your opponent is made from the finest straw.

    Like

  39. fish Avatar
    fish

    Slavery was as much a symptom as a cause and the split was for a mish mash of practical and emotional reasons.
    Expand upon this if you are so inclined.

    Like

  40. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Bill Tozer
    Steve, I think everyone is missing the point. While I prefer to call the Civil War as The War Between the States and World War I as The Great War and refuse to ever label the Lebanese civil war as a ‘civil war’ (it was an attempted genocide against Arab christians, not a wretchly misnamed civil war ), the real point is IF or When will the Great Divide with its irreconcilable differences between the two sides break out into a true civil war??When? Are we close? Are we already past the tipping point? It and when it happens, it will truly be a civil war.
    Now, we all know that the War Between the States was a bloody secession attempt by 11 states. Lincoln sought to preserve the Union, the confederacy sought to break away and become independent from The United States, not all that different from the goals of Catalonia to free itself from Spain or even Calexit to secede from the Union.
    The practice of slavery as the sole or primary catalyst or not is not the point. Read what was going on in the 1830s with tariffs that favored the Northeast over the South, the famous John C Calhoun-Daniel Noah Webster debates on interpretations of the Constitution and role of the Federal government, etc. But, all that is also missing the point.
    “And most significantly, if people break out their shootin’ irons this time, then the war will truly be a civil war and not the War for Southern Independence misnamed.” Dr. Rebane.
    That is the point. If I call the bloodly conflict where countrymen took up arms against fellow countrymen as The War Between the States or The War for Southern Independent
    or even the commonly accepted misnomer ‘The Civil War’, the point is the next one will be truly a civil war.
    Now, Crabb (or you) can hear the phrase ‘War of Southern independence’ as the proof positive dog whistle for KKK or White Supremists or not so thinly veiled racism til the cows come home. “Aha, gotcha now. I knew it and now I got the evidence! The War was about freeing millions of slaves, not States Rights or Presevering the Union! Rebane hates Negros! He won’t even acknowledge why the 11 states proclaimed independence from the USA and wanted to go their separate ways. It was all about race, duh!”
    The point is are we getting closer to a true Civil War. What comes after ‘beyond the tipping point’? Not a question that can be readily answered. Everybody acknowledges that the Great Divide appears beyond normal remedies…even Crabbie. The last comment on Scattershots (July 23) reads:
    “BillT 631pm – Mr Tozer, how close do you think we are to starting to man the ramparts?
    Posted by: George Rebane | 26 July 2018 at 06:40 PM”
    That is the question (which I cannot answer with my cloudy ball) and that IS the point. When? How close are we? What will the next ‘Civil War’ look like? What will be the catylsis? The impetus?
    Dunno the answer. In the short term, the 2018 mid-terms can be boiled down to its bare essentials. It will be a vote for if you want open borders or not. That’s it,

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  41. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    “…that George’s use of the “War of Southern Independence” is a reflection of his racist world view.”
    Uh – so, the southern states weren’t seeking independence?
    My, my, my.
    I suppose when you lack any real facts to back up your name-calling, you go with anything you can invent.
    The north was not particularly kind to blacks – especially during some of the worst rioting in NYC’s history. Please Google ‘New York City Draft Riots’. There were, of course, thousands of white men that eagerly fought and died for the North in order to to free the slaves, but the Emancipation Declaration wasn’t issued until well into the war.
    The vast majority of soldiers in the south never owned slaves and had no financial interest in the matter. (slavery actually hurt most southern white males financially). They felt that the northern states (govt and financial institutions) held too much power over them and they didn’t feel properly represented in the fed govt.
    Quite obviously, for slaves, the main benefit of the Civil War was that they were now free, although it would take decades for them to achieve a full measure of their civil rights. Denying them their rights under the 2nd A was critical for the bigots to keep them deprived of their other Constitutional rights.
    Here’s an interesting quote from Lincoln – “Do the people of the South really entertain fears that a Republican administration would, directly, or indirectly, interfere with their slaves, or with them, about their slaves? If they do, I wish to assure you, as once a friend, and still, I hope, not an enemy, that there is no cause for such fears.”
    https://rogerjnorton.com/Lincoln95.html
    Even though Lincoln clearly did not approve of slavery, he was still a politician and managed to talk out of both sides of his mouth.

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  42. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    Let’s remember Steven Frisch’s handiwork… the virtually lilly-white Sierra Business Council (remember… it isn’t a council of businesses) in virtually lilly-white Truckee.
    http://sierrabusiness.org/who-we-are/people/staff
    SBC itself is mostly white (just one candidate for a non-beige person of color) and female, while the board is lilly white and 80% male.

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  43. scenes Avatar
    scenes

    “Slavery was as much a symptom as a cause and the split was for a mish mash of practical and emotional reasons.
    Expand upon this if you are so inclined.”
    A tiny over-simplistic example and probably a somewhat inaccurate opinion, and not new with me. Wars tend to break out and nations are made (for self-defense if nothing else) on cultural fault lines. One major fault line was the split between north and south in terms of what we usually think of as a colonialist relationship. One place has value-added manufacturing and capital, the other has the ability to produce raw materials but lacks power as a result (and is usually miffed about it). A side effect of large scale resource extraction is that slavery isn’t a bad way to go, at least for the people doing the extraction, social side effects are ignored. So, the place that feels like it’s getting the raw end of the deal (so to speak) will tend to want to break off from the relationship. My guess is that it’s a situation that has a bit in common with the British in India.
    Using that line of thinking, slavery is just an indicator for deeper differences, like a language or religion might be.
    But hey, these are big feed back loops. Abolitionists were a significant factor too.

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  44. scenes Avatar
    scenes

    BillT: “How close are we? What will the next ‘Civil War’ look like? What will be the catalyst? The impetus?”
    Well, it certainly ain’t going to be those screeching Occupy ICE wimminz in Portland. How embarrassing is that?
    Maybe this guy’ll start it. I had to laugh at the end when he gets his mitts on a bullhorn near the end.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4y4yE1ggbpg

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  45. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: Gregory | 28 July 2018 at 08:42 AM
    WOW! I’d forgotten just how white the staff of the SBC was….that’s KKK National Board of directors white! That’s have to defend yourself against the SPLCs Heidi Beirich on TV white! That’s Pennsylvania Dutch country white!
    Steve couldn’t import a single black guy or gal from Sac or Reno for a little plausible deniability?

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  46. scenes Avatar
    scenes

    re: Fish@9:01AM
    I think that all the young women make up for the lack of POC, there’s some sort of scoring system in the world I expect.
    Hmmm, lotta young people there. Cult? Hiring practices based on age discrimination?
    I digress, there’s no point in driving off Mr. Frisch. He’s the only Progressive here that writes in complete sentences.

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  47. Steve Frisch Avatar
    Steve Frisch

    Yeah, we are going to hear it all now…
    Scott & Scenes with their twist on semantics and historical revisionism…the southern economy was based on white supremacy, it is what made the south agrarian, slavery was not a symptom it was the cause…
    Greg with an attack on my business affiliations….
    Fish with his inane humor…
    Todd will chime in with his, “Hey I can’t be a racist I once had a black girlfriend…”
    …and ultimately George and his restrained speech attempting to appear like some kind of conservative intellectual…with apologetics and white supremacist memes about it being a constitutional crises not slavery…of course the entire constitutional crises was about slavery…
    …but the person who has it correct is Fish who points out that this is a site with 8 like minded supremacists briefly interrupted by a few outliers weighing in to stir the pot…
    …lay down with white nationalists….take on the issues of white nationalists…argue the case of white nationalists…promote the next civil war…cheer on the great divide…call Bundy a hero…stand with a racist shit heel we have as President who inflames and dog-whistles white nationalism…claim the right to have George’s utopian enclaves of like cultured people…which is code for segregation…
    …do all that stuff and you’re just a bunch of un-American racists.
    Each of you is so disconnected from the values that really makes this country great that you make me sick…well, really bored…because after all as Fish pointed out, you’re all irrelevant.
    Hey Crabb, you do realize that you stood up for these guys for years saying my identification of their dog whistle racism was unwarranted, right?

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  48. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Scenes @ 8:58 am
    Lol. Well, if you put it that way….
    Scenes @ 8:51.
    Reading it from that angle, it wasn’t about slavery. It was all about economic survival…and the all mighty dollar imperative to said survival. Also, reading it from the Colonialist point of view, it’s amazing that the Constitution was ever ratified by the thirteen colonies in the first place considering the same unresolved issues they had when they signed the Constitution were the same unresolved issues between the more industrial north and agricultural south that sparked the Civil War.
    One can easily argue that the War Between the States was just resolving some of the issues that where kicked down the road when the Constitution was ratified, speciallily slavery and the bigger question of if states that got together to form a federal government are free to individually dissolve that relationship with the Federal government of which they previously created. Those issues are now resolved.
    Domestically, the issues of the rural vs urban, the Red States vs the Blue States, the farm belts vs the city dwellers, the centers of power in economic power centers ruling over the rest (less populated regions) remain to this day. You see this played out whenever the talk of abandoning the electoral college makes the rounds. Ironically, when the Constitution was ratified, Virginia was the most populous colony of the thirteen, but that tidbit is just something to put in the Encyolpedia of Worthless Information.
    Unresolved issues, power sharing, the Great Divide. Hmmm. A spring board into a myriad of thoughts, topics, and POVs. Ok, how about two.
    1). Politics is downstream from culture. A farmer may hate his father, but he got the love of the land from his father. It’s now in his blood.
    2) whatever don’t break ya with make ya. Pain is the touchstone to growth.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=koaP6eAHObg

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  49. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    “Scott & Scenes with their twist on semantics and historical revisionism…”
    facts, sir – facts. What ‘twist’ on semantics’ – what ‘revisionism’?
    “Each of you is so disconnected from the values that really makes this country great that you make me sick…”
    Hmmm – freedom? liberty? personal responsibility? opportunity?
    The Bill of Rights? The Constitution?
    This makes Frisch sick?
    Oh dear.

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