Rebane's Ruminations
April 2018
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George Rebane

Silly me.  And here all along I thought I knew what is a community dialogue in a town hall format.  You know, a gathering for which they make a big announcement for everyone interested to gather together, hear some speaker(s), and then everyone has a chance to be heard.  Au contraire mon ami.  The gun violence town hall we’ve been talking about here for a week or more is really for a restricted audience, a select and correct thinking group perhaps, one that got the flyer you see here below.  If you weren’t in that group, you’re SOL unless you can squeeze in with a last-minute RSVP.  And, of course, RSVPs only work if you have something to respond to, sil vous plait.  So I hope that some politically incorrect members of the community are also allowed to join that exclusive tete-a-tete this coming Friday, otherwise I’m going to be very lonely and may need an armed escort to exit the building.  Bottom line, it ain’t gonna be announced in The Union.

GunViolenceTownHall

[21apr18 update]  The town hall came off pretty much as advertised; attendance was almost at capacity in the Nevada City council chambers.  However, the way that the discussion was framed for the panel was a bit different than my takeaway from the first meeting.  Actually, the discussion was not framed at all save for asking us all to talk about guns and school safety “on the community level”.

Judge Tom Anderson, who overall did an excellent job a mediator, in his opening remarks specifically stated that this was not to be a discussion on Second Amendment which would “take us all day” to cover.  With this constraint, the rest of the evening consisted of a series of disjointed panel comments and answers that ranged from claiming that we have an ongoing shooting “epidemic” to a “crisis”, to arming teachers or not, to passing more gun regulations since they reduced crime, and on and on.  We were not able to get to any specific problem that the community could get its arms around to solve, and that for the simple reason that none of us knew what acceptable problem domain were we supposed treat or even use as the basis for developing a list.

Lots of anecdotal comments were offered on how horrible it was to get shot at, have a loved one killed by a shooter, and the students’ fear of a massacre that now permeated schools nationwide, including in Nevada County.  The consensus of the four liberal panelists was that the passing of more gun controls, and perhaps confiscating certain types of guns, would keep the kids safe and reduce crime since their data showed ‘more gun controls, less gun violence’.  In actuality, as cited here previously, “there is no clear relationship between strict gun control legislation and homicide or violent crime rates.”

Jarod Johnson, owner of The Range and ex-LE officer, was the only other apparent non-liberal who strongly maintained that schools should each have an armed policeman on duty to stop massacres.  And he agreed that only guns on the premises will stop people with guns.  He didn’t quite finish with ‘when seconds count, police are minutes away’.

My interjected points (only one question was actually posed to me during the evening) included attempts to communicate the following.

  • Right and Left agree on neither the facts nor their interpretation. The path toward a solution should start on whatever part of the worldview we do share.
  • The search for a community solution should start with identification of a solvable problem and a specific utility (numerical metric) that measures our progress.
  • Willing teachers should be trained and armed to reduce the loss of life in school massacres.
  • Children learn fear from their elders (parents, teachers, media). Unreasonable fear of in-school massacres has to be carefully taught to young impressionable brains.  Nevada County youth regularly die in traffic accidents at rates at least two orders of magnitude higher than from anything gun related, yet no one is afraid of getting in a car and driving off.  
  • Stricter gun controls do not affect suicide rates – committed suicides find alternate means. (Massachusetts was cited where suicide rates were supposed have dropped with increased gun controls – the fact is exactly the opposite, its suicide rates increased by at least 40% in the 2004-14 decade.  More alternate facts.)
  • Homicide rates are culture driven, not gun driven – London’s murder rate with knives now exceeds NYC’s with guns.
  • The need to include the 2nd Amendment and its core purpose/meaning in ANY discussion of gun ownership, violence, safety, control, … is seminal because that is the basis for half the country resisting gun confiscators and any incremental ratcheting toward that goal.
  • Saving teen lives (i.e. max expected lives saved) in Nevada County should not start with, or perhaps even include, the fortification of schools – drugs, alcohol, suicides, opiates, … should get our first attention and efforts.
  • The next town hall on saving teen lives should define and recommend a locally achievable project or program.
Posted in ,

96 responses to “Gun Violence Community Dialogue & Town Hall Update (updated 21apr18)”

  1. George Boardman Avatar

    This even should be held in a venue that can accommodate anybody who wants to attend. I didn’t bother when I learned I needed a reservation to attend.
    But I don’t think there’s any conspiracy here. It’s just another example of the well-meaning but clueless people who seem to populate this area.

    Like

  2. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    I got that buzz from the original announcement, George. It was always limited seating and questions submitted and screened (by someone).
    Their facebook page suggests there are only 17 people signed up to go, with another nine thinking of it but that might not include non-facebook enrollees.

    Like

  3. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    George, that is the original announcement, which has been posted on their fakebook page multiple times since April 8.

    Like

  4. Bill Tozer Avatar

    Dr. Rebane,
    The second you originally posted the upcoming March on Townhall on 4/20, my reaction was: limited seating, pre-approved questions, and no way would I find a seat or be allowed in even if I arrived hours early…..probably not on the pre-approved guest list anyway. Bouncer at the door says “Exnay to you, Deplorable.” Not open to the public, just a selected focus group. Stacked panel, stacked audience. Patty Smith and her group of starving artists are putting on the show for pete’s sake, That was my instinct and is proven correct. “Forget it,” I thought.
    That was the catalyst for saying “waste of time, ain’t going”, not a disinterest in the event, stacked deck or not. Very interested, very very interested to attend, but I knew no way Jose with that panel and control freaks controlling who is allowed in. Hope that clears up any misunderstanding or misreading of my defeatist attitude and resigned disinterest.
    I do have a fantasy. The fantasy is I stand at the microphone and direct my question to the shrink. I will raise my voice and look directly in her/his/it’s eyes and say, “Hey twat, are you going to take my guns? Come on, bitch, come and get them right now, Come on, pussy, do it now.” Then, with eyes firmly fixed, I take half a step forward and say, “Boo!” Then a big belly laugh, turn and walk back to my seat. Wonder if the shrink will have to go find a therapist or get on disability for PTSD. Ah, just silly passing thoughts to liven the event up…and this thread.
    I will be there by the time it’s over to hang back all nice and meek and polite like and undetected to make sure you get to your car unmolested.

    Like

  5. Don Bessee Avatar
    Don Bessee

    Its interesting that they put it in a small venue that leans. Sounds like it is more about pushing a message that supports their candidates a couple of weeks before the mail ballots hit everyone’s mailboxes. 😉

    Like

  6. Bill Tozer Avatar

    Oh Don, how cynical of you.
    There are true believers on both sides. That’s the way it should be, in a perfect world. Interesting to hear about school safety, first and foremost. Bet they take up our suggestions to harden up the schools a wee bit. It’s the most tangible proactive practical effective step and doable.
    “If you see something, report it” is another proactive step to protect the high school “children” sitting in little chairs with little desks….before they go racing around in cars when school lets out. Guess those who stay after for the Miners’ varsity football practice are called children as well, but don’t tell them that.
    If you see something, report it. Don’t know if you can ever stop bullying or taunting in the playground, but it’s worth a try. The anti-social ones can be shipped off to charter school for a more welcoming environment. Children can be brutal and make going to school a miserable hell experience for those who don’t fit in.
    Too bad I will miss listening to the child speaker from NU. Punchy says it most moving and tugs at the heartstrings, no doubt. Hey, I always cry when hearing a good story, more often than not.

    Like

  7. George Rebane Avatar

    Some may think that their posting on Facebook is all that’s necessary. And then there are those who have never heard of FARM, let alone visit their FB page to see their latest. Dream on.

    Like

  8. Walt Avatar

    AR15 used in SELF DEFENSE.
    http://dailycaller.com/2018/04/19/home-invasion-victims-use-ar-15-to-defend-themselves-against-five-armed-intruders/
    Good luck hearing it from anti gun LIB news.
    Oh… Yes.. a “high capacity” magazine was also involved. Things may have gone the other way if they were stuck with a Proggy “safe” magazine with only a few bullets.

    Like

  9. Bill Tozer Avatar

    Concerning Guns: A Community Dialouge.
    The anti-gun folks have no problem with dialouge about violence. They express their views quite well, despite the irony. It’s who they are.
    “One guy hunted down my private cell phone number, called when police were here, threatened to shoot me in my front yard,” she wrote on Twitter. “Another guy created a string of social media accounts, posted photos of my house, threatened to rape me to death.”
    Some gun-control advocates even went so far as to threaten the lives of her children.
    http://americangg.net/3am-nra-spokeswoman-flees/
    Like I have said before, get rid of the Lefties and you just got rid of 90% of the violence.

    Like

  10. Bill Tozer Avatar

    Come to think of it, the Community Dialogue is nothing but a media event. NCTV will be there filming live. the community alternative FM station airing live, and live streaming on the internet. You can bet your bottom dollar the Union will send a reporter and photographer. Made for TV. Just another lefty media event.
    https://www.facebook.com/lastamericapatriots/photos/a.235087906641439.1073741826.235086849974878/1036489433167945/?type=3&theater

    Like

  11. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    Too late for George tonight, but here’s a fresh Reason podcast that is very apropos:
    https://soundcloud.com/reasonmag/how-to-talk-to-people-who-think-youre-evil-andor-insane

    Like

  12. Bill Tozer Avatar

    Sr. Rebane,
    Smooth sailing and don’t forget to remind your fellow panelists to check their white privilege at the door…sometime during the middle of the “dialogue”.
    https://www.facebook.com/PatriotPost/photos/rpp.51560645913/10155574575795914/?type=3&theater

    Like

  13. Bill Tozer Avatar

    Opps. On second thought, you will just need to be yourself, not luck.
    http://www.sj-r.com/news/20180419/bill-put-therapists-not-armed-security-in-illinois-schools
    Remember the only one to sue the crap out of Nevada County in the aftermath of the Scott Thorpe was a fairly unstable woman who did not see the shooter, did not see anyone get shot, was not even in the room, but heard a shot down the hall and leaped from a window, breaking her ankle. Anvery very expensive broken ankle for the County and months of therapy for her, “the victim”. Oh yeah, the trembling leaf was a mental health worker. There is a reason they get into that field.

    Like

  14. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Hillary Hodge stated last night that she was against the sale of AR-57’s.

    Like

  15. Don Bessee Avatar
    Don Bessee

    Wat dat @ 410?

    Did anyone else notice how after all the student gun marches, walkouts that suddenly we have a new bunch being reported on 420? Couldn’t have anything to do with it being 420 could it?
    😉

    Like

  16. scenes Avatar
    scenes

    re: ToddJ@4:10PM
    Maybe she meant the AR-17, although she doesn’t strike me as a shotgun kind o’ gal.
    George, good luck at the 2 Hour Hate. It should be a trip. The trick is to maintain equanimity. Like some Roman guy said:
    “Is it not cruel, to restrain men from desiring, or pursuing, what appears to them as their proper good or advantage? And yet you seem chargeable
    in a certain manner with this conduct, when you are angry at the mistakes,
    and wrong actions of men: for, all are carried toward what appears to them
    their proper good. But, say you, it is not their proper good. Well:
    instruct them, then, and teach them better, and don’t be angry with them.”

    Like

  17. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    It went per usual – Silver haired Gomes stated he worked for the legislature for 8 years. It showed. Buzz words. The English teacher roped into school security brought little to the table. The high school brat wanted big brother to take care of us. The Range owner wanted more business via govt dictate. Ms Wilcox did her usual – “my daughter got shot dead with a gun, so you had better listen to me or I’ll cry and make you feel bad.” Has anyone ever asked her what she would have done if her daughter had been strangled or knifed? I know – not allowed. She’ll start crying.
    George did his best although the opening part was lost on the crowd. His closing was point on. Basically – you want to save youngins? Then focus on what kill ’em.
    But – that was never the point, was it?

    Like

  18. Biker Bill Tozer and his Minutemen Avatar

    Scott, I had a different take. It went very well. Nice polite civil exchange of ideas. So well that I was outside around the block listening on the ray -dee-o with two fine gentlemen in a sinister dark SUV with tinted windows in case Dr. Rebane needed an escort. With Mr. Johnson and other panelists who train LE or work with LE around Dr. Rebane, I felt there was no need to hang around. Besides, it’s 4/20 and it all sounded mellow. :). We rolled out of there probably 20 minutes before it ended and listened on the radio as the mission was called off. It’s Nirvana City, for criminy jeepers.
    If I were to nitpick, I felt Ms. Wilcox wandered off in the weeds too often by repeatedly going back to suicide to tie that into community safety. Besides that, she was fine. The kid was fine. Liked his comment about asking a teacher what was the plan and the answer was, “I dunno, climb under the desk?” Not to ridicule his teacher, but it told me that there has not been a coordinated well thought out plan put in place…yet. That will come. Probably after or during the summer recess. “Barricade, not get under the desk” was was a good answer by the panelist who jumped on that one. That was her expertise.
    The articulate kid brought up the old debate point about Chicago. Guns enter Chicago via adjoining states and locales. My tried and true answer is “if that is true, why don’t those adjoining states and locales have the same crime rates?”, i.e., it’s the criminal, not the gun. But, that’s just me from the peanut gallery.
    Liked Mr. Johnson a lot. He cut through the crap. “If someone commits suicide, tough titty. I am sorry, not! Boo-hoo. We are here to protect our children first and foremost.” Did not hear much about behavioral health, which can be discussed on other forums.
    Fear is a huge topic and I loved Dr. Rebane’s perfect answer. Kids look to their parents for get their clues. The dialogue also confirmed my long held belief that kids are a hell of a lot more resilient and adaptable than the press and parents and teachers give “the children” credit for. The real fear is to be found generated by teachers, parents, the Lefties, and the MSM, IMHO. Barricade? Kids like to built forts!
    I wished the point of seconds matter was hammered home…matter so much that you got to have armed LE/security close, real close, very very close when seconds matter. Like on the grounds close. The school is the target, not some place down the street. Big point to me, but I was not on the panel. It was addressed in other ways. Liked the comment that some schools don’t like/want cops around. That is true and could be a high hurdle to overcome.
    The last statement was the best, almost took my breath away. To paraphrase, “after all this talk, what the hell have we done to make NU safer tomorrow morning? Not one damn thing.” Shat or get off the pot. I could hear others in the audience reacting the same as me, almost taking their breath away as well. A tiny involuntary gasp. Or, it could have been my imagination, but I choose to believe not. Focus, people, focus. NU tomorrow, is it safer than today?
    The only irritant I had was when KVMR cut away 2-3 times to give shout outs to their underwriters while the panelists were talking. That sucked, by what do you expect from amateurish alternative lefty underground FM radio. 😉

    Like

  19. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    My ‘review’ of the show was just a quick one as it was late and I wanted to hit the sack. It was polite and well ordered. Definitely. Johnson did have some very good things to say. But I didn’t like his opening line about needing full gun registration. It doesn’t stop gun violence and it provides the govt with a list of houses to visit. His comment on suicide was honest but probably came across as heartless and uncaring to most of that crowd. The HS kid was a left-wing tool. Cherry picked factoids and playing up the “I’m soooo fwightened!” BS. Wilcox couldn’t get her story straight. She pointed out that CA had more guns than ever, yet also had a declining gun violence problem. She ‘forgot’ to mention that it was true for the rest of the nation even in states that don’t have CA’s strict gun control laws. She then said that “less guns equals less gun violence”. Uh, honey – you just stated the opposite.
    Watched it on NCTV (streamed) and thought they did OK, with only a few camera miscues.
    All in all, everyone played their part. The judge did a good job of moderating.
    No one changed anyone’s mind and today we get up and get on with our lives until the next nut job goes off the rails and it starts up all over.

    Like

  20. Russ Avatar
    Russ

    CDC, in Surveys It Never Bothered Making Public, Provides More Evidence that Plenty of Americans Innocently Defend Themselves with Guns
    CDC surveys in the 1990s, never publicly reported, indicate nearly 2.5 million defensive uses of guns a year. That matches the results of Gary Kleck’s controversial surveys, and it indicates more defensive than offensive uses of guns.
    http://reason.com/blog/2018/04/20/cdc-provides-more-evidence-that-plenty-o
    Perhaps a little late for the debate, but it continues.

    Like

  21. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    The hiding of the inconvenient data the CDC collected is not surprising… they’d been banned from doing gun control research in the ’90’s BECAUSE it was the sense of the Congress the CDC was biased. The Congress was correct, as was the NRA.
    Here’s a WaPo piece from three years ago decrying the CDC not breaking free:
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/storyline/wp/2015/01/14/why-the-cdc-still-isnt-researching-gun-violence-despite-the-ban-being-lifted-two-years-ago/

    Like

  22. Marillyn Lock-Heed Avatar
    Marillyn Lock-Heed

    ,,,sure scott,,,let’s track mj from seed to sale,,,ridiculous!!!,,,but don’t you dare make my gun trackable!!!
    #SAD

    Like

  23. Patricia Smith Avatar
    Patricia Smith

    I don’t have time to read all your comments, bvut I read enough to get the drift. This event was open to everyone on a first-come first-served basis. We spread the word in every venue we could including KNCO. There was a fairly equal representtion of conservative and progressives in the audience as evidenced by all the NRA T-Shirts & caps.
    The resason for the reservations was simply crowd control. The reason the City Hall venue was selected was simply because it is the easiest to broadcast BOTH Comcast and KVMR – and the venue was free.
    I think the event was a success in that it did bring two sides together to talk about a difficult issue. I don’t think we succeeded in that not enough time was spent on solutions and too much time was spent on causes. I am envisioning a follow-up event where we focus on one possible solution at a time and then let the audience vote on whether they agree or disagree.
    I perdonally met a very conservative woman last night who was fairly skeptical of my intentions but the longer we talked the more we found items we agreed on and we respectfully agreed to disagree on others. I won’t name her for fear of ruining her reputation by associating with me!
    I want to thank Dr Rebane for his participation and that he made it out of the venue safely. We progressives are harmless most of the time – just don’t cross us on animal rights, cannabis, freedpm of choice immigration….lol

    Like

  24. Walt Avatar

    “Freedom of choice” you say? LOL!! What a load! BS on the highest order! Spare us the Proggy sale pitch.
    That so-called “freedom” you speak of is what you Lefties care to decide. Like our “freedom of choice” of firearms. Most of the time your side can’t even define what firearm is which, or how it even functions. Yet somehow “your side” knows best.
    “Progressive” is just a polite word for Communist. ” Your freedom to choose is what we say it is.”
    “We don’t want you to own “X”, because we think it’s scary looking”
    One thing has been proven true. A Proggy in power and control is a vary dangerous thing. This state called Ca. is proof enough.

    Like

  25. Patricia Smith Avatar
    Patricia Smith

    Oh Walt, you are so predictable!

    Like

  26. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Walt I think the left misunderstands the meaning of “choice”. They want to force their choices down our throats and when we point it out they say we are against choice. I imagine the left is so conflicted they need medication to deal with the inner conflicts they possess.

    Like

  27. Marillyn Lock-Heed Avatar
    Marillyn Lock-Heed

    I am going to start my own NRA,,,National Reefer Association!!! You can take my reefer from my cold dead hand!!!
    ,,,all the 2nd amendment gun owner par force types are sure to join!!!

    Like

  28. Bill Tozer Avatar

    The only thing Patricia Smith cares about is the freedom to smoke pot and murder babies. And no, Patricia, you progressives are not harmless. You cannot spell Progressive without ss. Go murder some more babies today.

    Like

  29. Patricia Smith Avatar
    Patricia Smith

    Marillyn Lock-Heed | 21 April 2018 at 12:43 PM
    No the 2nd Amendment folks won’t join. You can’t own a gun if you are a MMJ patient!

    Like

  30. Don Bessee Avatar
    Don Bessee

    In the spirit of balance –
    In 1996, 1997, and 1998, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) conducted large-scale national surveys asking about defensive gun use (DGU). They never released the findings, or even acknowledged they had studied the topic. I obtained the unpublished raw data and computed the prevalence of DGU. CDC’s findings indicated that an average of 2.46 million U.S. adults used a gun for self-defense in each of the years from 1996 through 1998 – almost exactly confirming the estimate for 1992 of Kleck and Gertz (1995). Possible reasons for CDC’s suppression of these findings are discussed.
    On April 20, 2018, Reason magazine quoted Kleck’s reaction to the unpublished CDC findings; he explained that a figure of 2.46 million DGUs a year “[implies] that guns were used defensively by victims about 3.6 times as often as they were used offensively by criminals.”
    http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/04/21/unpublished-cdc-study-confirms-2-million-annual-defensive-gun-uses/
    😉

    Like

  31. Patricia Smith Avatar
    Patricia Smith

    Bill Tozer | 21 April 2018 at 12:46 PM
    We’ll talk when you show as much compassion for the living as you do for the unborn.

    Like

  32. Walt Avatar

    That’s all you have Pat? “your so predictable”…
    Yet don’t refute one damned thing I said. Yup,, that old saying works. “Can’t defend the “undefendable”.
    It’s starting to look like this Patty Smith,, is a carbon copy of a “jon”Smith. Your “brother”?

    Like

  33. Walt Avatar

    Good one Pat,,
    “We’ll talk when you show as much compassion for the living as you do for the unborn” WE actually want to see the “unborn” LIVE!!!
    You got your “dope for all”,, what’s the bitch? Now to see homelessness go up, drug rehab intakes go up, welfare to go up,, all because of dope.(a DRUG) DOPE kills the gumption to get up and take on the day.(FACT) Why work when you can lay around and get stoned all day, and rake in a welfare check? And anything these days passes for a disability. Dope smokers.. the “new” disabled.
    By the way you talk, every person in the county is a cancer patient. “dope is just medicine”. Your high, if you think most buy that excuse.
    I know a guy who uses the excuse that dope smoke calms his coughing. It helps him breath. ( yaaa… you go with that.)

    Like

  34. scenes Avatar
    scenes

    “We’ll talk when you show as much compassion for the living as you do for the unborn.”
    An interesting argument, and perhaps a fundamental one.
    It seems to me that there are two general states of mind here.
    1) All humans have equal value. The fact that they can breathe (ie. have been born) is unimportant. In this world, a fertilized egg = an infant = and adult = someone close to death.
    2) Humans become humans once they are born. Before that, they are purely the property of a mother.
    a third concept might be:
    3) Humans have economic value. Before birth they are worth very little. After a few years they are worth a lot. A 20 year old (or thereabouts) is worth the most of all. An 80 year old is worth very little.
    Thus, economic resources like schooling, medical care, general upkeep, would best be spent on people in their late teens and early 20’s.
    I’m not sure what the answer is, but people might be well advised to think through their own philosophy.

    Like

  35. Walt Avatar

    One more jab at the Proggy… Your quick to snuff the life of an unborn child, yet go to the ends of the earth to stop a killer’s execution.(anti death penalty) That’s some real messed up logic.
    Now go smoke a bowl and come up with a way to defend that line of thinking. His/her smoking way too much dope as a child ain’t going to fly as an excuse.( That defense has already been used)

    Like

  36. Bill Tozer Avatar

    No Patty, we will not talk. You should have stayed a single issue advocate, advocating for your suffering patiences. Now you stepping into a realm of which you are a threat to rights, not needs. Rights that are not given to me by government or granted by government. Talking done. You are a threat to the Constitution I am duty bound to uphold and defend against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
    I wish you well in all your endeavors.

    Like

  37. Walt Avatar

    Read it and weep anti gun bast…. people,,
    http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/04/21/unpublished-cdc-study-confirms-2-million-annual-defensive-gun-uses/
    “On April 20, 2018, Reason magazine quoted Kleck’s reaction to the unpublished CDC findings; he explained that a figure of 2.46 million DGUs a year “[implies] that guns were used defensively by victims about 3.6 times as often as they were used offensively by criminals.”
    All this time when the Proggys running the CDC this never got out. For good reason(at least for Proggys out to ban guns)
    Now that cat is out of the bag.
    It looks like the Proggy run gov. is really pro thug. All those unemployed dope smokers need to earn a living too.( ripping off, and holding up the working guy) Gotta put some anti gun protections in for them.

    Like

  38. scenes Avatar
    scenes

    from the paper referred to at DonB @ 1:07PM
    “If doubts about the validity of these findings cannot justify their suppression, why did
    CDC personnel decide not to report them? One obvious explanation would be that they
    recognized that their own surveys’ finding of a high DGU prevalence was unfriendly to gun
    control efforts – efforts repeatedly endorsed by CDC-financed researchers (Kates 2001). Such a
    decision could have been made at the level of administrators who supervise the BRFSS, or
    perhaps just lower-level personnel who understood that these findings would be unwelcome
    news to their bosses. Regardless of how the decision was made, it was a disservice to the
    American people, who paid for the survey and the information it yielded, but who were not
    allowed to see it and judge its worth for themselves.”
    I can t say that I’m surprised. It’s not dissimilar to papers that disagree with notions of global warm/cooling or the memory hole that Robert Putnam’s work gets pushed down (including the bias of Robert Putnam himself).
    Basically, we are dealing with a secular religion. It has a goal in sight, and obstacles must be pushed out of the way.
    There is no point in compromise.

    Like

  39. Big Bad Bug Avatar
    Big Bad Bug

    “You can take my reefer from my cold dead hand!!!”
    -Marylyn 1245pm
    Your proposal is acceptable.

    Like

  40. Bill Tozer Avatar

    Oh Walt, we should stay on topic. Gun confiscation, not medical grass. There are many who do not own a firearm, perhaps never will, who choose to uphold and defend the Constitution…all of it. I know several such in my neck of the woods. They choose not to exercise their 2nd Amendment Rights, but would never dream of restricting mine.
    This ain’t some smorgasbord where we can pick and choice which rights we like and disregard the rest…no matter how “emotional” the topic is.
    Here is an example that is I consider some of the most anti-Constitution words ever written. No countries? No borders? No possessions, no property, no religion, nothing worth shedding blood for? Nothing worth dying for? Just a big ole nothing.
    Imagine there’s no countries
    It isn’t hard to do
    Nothing to kill or die for
    And no religion too
    Imagine all the people living life in peace, you
    You may say I’m a dreamer
    But I’m not the only one
    I hope some day you’ll join us
    And the world will be as one
    Imagine no possessions
    I wonder if you can.

    Like

  41. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    “I don’t have time to read all your comments, bvut [sic] I read enough to get the drift. This event was open to everyone on a first-come first-served basis. We spread the word in every venue we could including KNCO. There was a fairly equal representtion [sic] of conservative and progressives in the audience as evidenced by all the NRA T-Shirts & caps.
    The resason [sic] for the reservations was simply crowd control.”
    Based on the tittering I heard in the back, it seemed the crowd was lopsided towards the long in the tooth progressives, and there is more to the debate than conservative and progressive. What a limited way to categorize modern-day political beliefs, but it is what many have come to believe about the so-called “Progressives”… in their minds it’s the forces of Good vs. the evil Righties.
    Yes, it was about crowd control … you know what would happen if, for example,Doug LaMalfa to hold a “town hall meeting” in a small venue with RSVP seating only and questions submitted on cards handed up for approval before they could be uttered.

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  42. Walt Avatar

    But Bill.. The gripe was just printed about the dopers can’t have guns! THEY opened the door.(Smith’s 21 April 2018 at 01:04 PM) It state against FED law all over again.
    Now what does the State law on dope say about gun possession?
    Did Moonbat give his blessing? The state say A’OK?

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  43. Bill Tozer Avatar

    Walt, agree on the intersectionality of dope (prescription dope) and gun control. So, it’s a fair topic. And, as I like to point out, Scott Peterson was convicted of double murder for killing his wife Lacy and her unborn son, Connor…in California.
    As for the meeting at City Hall, it when well. Judge Anderson came out of the gate saying “We are NOT here not debate the 2nd Amendment.” Ok, then why bother to have a dialogue, Your Honorable Discharge?
    No, the meeting did not spend time mostly taking about causes and not solutions. The solutions to protecting local kids was put forth, from writing more laws at the Fderal level to hardening soft targets. The cause is always the gun, lol.
    Did learn in CA that “volunteers” protecting schools is not an option if they are armed. Same for teachers and administrators. Ok. Throw that solution away. Wonder if the panel was aware that CA gives grants for school safety for primary and secondary education. Those grants are in the form of providing funds to purchase signs that read ‘Gun Free Zone’. Apply for those school safety grants immediately. 🙂
    Read this this morning (timing is late) and I have brought it up several times….to little interest, save Bonnie. But, it is just another cause, not a solution, I reckon.
    http://www.oann.com/mass-shootings-psychotropic-drug-use/

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  44. Walt Avatar

    Speaking of schools and guns. Pretty girl alert,,, “jon”. (your so predicable)
    http://dailycaller.com/2018/04/21/brenna-spencer-university-of-tennessee-chattanooga/
    I’m sure this guy is smoking dope.
    “We think that the photo is disrespectful of the Walnut Street Bridge and the history behind the historic Chattanooga landmark that has been around since 1889,” the editorial argued.
    News flash.. The bridge is made of steel too.

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  45. scenes Avatar
    scenes

    re: BillT@2:58PM
    Well, it would be a darned boring 2 minute hate if you started a ‘town hall’ like that as follows:
    . The relationship of psychotropic drugs and shootings.
    . Demographics and murder rates.
    . A quick 15 minute rundown on California gun law (which hardly anyone seems to know, especially the local Green Libertarians).
    I guess you could finish up with a few high school debate club kids with signs just to add a bit of levity.

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  46. Walt Avatar

    No more guitar cases. BAN them.
    http://dailycaller.com/2018/04/21/florida-school-resource-officer-confront-shooter/
    My mistake. It was shotgun this time. NOT an AR57.
    The nutcase also listened to “shotgun” . ( Just shoot through the door) Joe Biden.

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  47. Bill Tozer Avatar

    Gregory @ 2:27 pm
    Concur. In FARM’s mind, putting the news out about the meeting means putting it on a FB page no one ever head of, aired on NCTV nobody ever watches, and on KVMR, a station only libs, old dopers, and hairy arm pit vegan hippy chicks listen to. Remember how upset the FUE was because KVMR runs Dr. Rebane’s brief few minutes once a week on the far left newshour? It must not be aired anywhere the liberal news hour time slot. It must not ruin my alternative news hour! That says it all. It was a local “artist” Nevada City event. So, from that small narrow prespective, it was indeed putting the word out to a very focused group from very narrow “media” local outlets whose audience is of singular political persuasion.

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  48. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    Here’s Ms. Wilcox’s argument comparing guns to automobiles… that we, by law, improved automobiles over time and made them safer.
    As uttered in a town hall by then President Obama.
    https://youtu.be/6imFvSua3Kg
    He also decries the CDC being barred from researching gun issues and not using the no-fly lists for gun background checks.

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  49. Marillyn Lock-Heed Avatar
    Marillyn Lock-Heed

    ,,,poor bill,,,all he gets is the fox TV echo chamber on his rabbit-ear antenna!!!
    His idea of news is fringe websites that run what he wants to hear,,,kind of a ‘’’goldenoldies’’’ of right wing thought.

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  50. Bill Tozer Avatar

    Light up another one, just like the other one, Marilyn.
    Oh Scenes, demographics is a factor, but not a pleasant topic to look at. 53% of the homicides are committed by 13% of the population and all that stuff. And I would hazard a guess that maybe 50 percent of that 13 percent reside in areas in and around the inner cities and in the proximity of the urban jungles. That is a separate issue of public safety, not school shootings.
    The effectiveness/correlation of strict gun laws and gun violence came up with Dr. Rebane going for the ole standby Chicago and Detroit and Ms. Wilcox interpreted by tossing out CT and MA. Hmmm. I think New Hampshire has the same demographics as Nevada County, Ca. Let’s sidestep that one, shall we.
    These school shooters are white males, not black on black crime stats. Mass killers, that is. Hey, it’s giving you white folk a bad name….as if that is possible. Seriously, I was by chance in CO for a week and jogged a lap around a nice high school track I happened upon while about on one of the many pedestrian trails. A week or less after I left that area. the HS became famous for all the wrong reasons, 19 years ago yesterday. White area. High School had a weird name.
    Those ones we have forgot in Ore, Kentucky, Florida and the ones we remember like Sandy Hook. White boys…and I haven’t even gone of campus to the Batman Movie Shooter…..
    Thus, we can’t say “it can’t happen here to narrow this whole whole ball of wax down to just our community. Our ground zero, if you want to have a “community” dialogue. Scott Thorpe was an Off campus shooter, the biggest shooting that we have had here in decades. Now, what about the schools here.
    No judgement on this, just pointing out that it is going to take some time and deep thoughtful consideration (and hopefully wisdom) for everybody to get on the same page or decide what is best for their districts. It’s probably being debated coast to coast.
    http://www.montereycountyweekly.com/news/local_news/salinas-school-boards-face-pushback-for-rejecting-cops-on-campus/article_d4fdc7e2-82c6-11e7-8cbe-af45865f408c.html

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