Rebane's Ruminations
April 2018
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George Rebane

[This is the transcript of my regular KVMR commentary broadcast on 4 April 2018.]

Today the Second Amendment and gun violence are on the minds of many people.  Both subjects have widely different meanings for Americans, and the usual conversations held on these topics more often than not find people talking past each other because they share no common facts, definitions of terms, knowledge of history, and usually debate only to promote totally different futures for America.  In short, neither their agendas nor narratives are compatible.  On 20 April there will be a town hall meeting in Nevada City to attempt a better understanding of all this that I’ll tell you about in a minute.

Since the Parkland shootings, the Left has again made gun control a national issue, seeing it as the most recent not-to-be-wasted perfect storm to flood the country with the next layer of gun control laws.  What distinguishes their current efforts from the past is that the cat is finally out of the bag – the Left’s goal is not just adopting what they call ‘common sense’ laws and regulations, but the total abrogation of civilian gun ownership.  And former Supreme Court Justice Stevenson openly declared the preferred method to be through the repeal of the Second Amendment.

What continues to fuel the debate in the media is the way that information on guns – their types, functioning, gun deaths, gun violence, (yes, these are different), ownership rates, applicable laws, the effect of various levels of controls, etc – how all this is disseminated.  Listening to the gun confiscation folks, you would think that there has been a dramatic increase in gun violence, however that is characterized.  Looking at the plain facts, gathered and published by outfits like Pew Research, FBI’s Uniform Crime Reports, Centers for Disease Control, and other reputable private and public agencies, the reality is quite different.

Here are some “stubborn facts” to consider when you next talk about gun violence and gun control –

  • Violent crime is down and has been on the decline for decades.
  • The principal public safety concerns with respect to guns are suicides and illegally owned handguns, not mass shootings.
  • A small number of factors significantly increase the likelihood that a person will be a victim of a gun-related homicide.
  • Gun-related murders are carried out by a predictable pool of people.
  • Higher rates of gun ownership are not associated with higher rates of violent crime.
  • There is no clear relationship between strict gun control legislation and homicide or violent crime rates.
  • Legally owned firearms are used for lawful purposes much more often, about 450,000 times annually, than they are used to commit crimes or suicide.
  • Concealed carry or CCW permit holders are not the problem, but they may be part of the solution. CCW permit holders are arguably the most law-abiding people in the country.  Our police, who are very law-abiding, still commit crimes at 6 to 10 times the rate that CCW holders do.

To put the loss of human life into some perspective, consider that insect bites kill more people than the criminal use of guns.  More people are stabbed to death each year than are shot with rifles.  Surprisingly, the London murder rate with knives is now higher than the gun murder rate in New York.  And each year medical mistakes kill over 20 times the number of people murdered with guns.  So, there is much more to know about gun violence than what is repeated on every-day media.  (more here)

In light of all this, a group of concerned progressives will gather in the Nevada City Council chambers on the evening of 20 April to hold a town hall in order to “find common ground for efforts that can be initiated right here in Nevada County to make us all safer.”  The meeting, moderated by Judge Tom Anderson, will be a discussion and not a debate.  It will feature a panel that includes Carla Wolfclaw, who wrote on school security measures after the Columbine massacre, and a number of locals to which I have been added to provide either some measure of balance or, perhaps, comic relief, not necessarily in that order.  More information will be available soon on local radio and in The Union.

My name is Rebane, and I also expand on this and related themes on Rebane’s Ruminations where the transcript of this commentary is posted with relevant links, and where such issues are debated extensively.  However, my views are not necessarily shared by KVMR.  Thank you for listening.

[6apr18 update]  Until something more formal appears in the media, I am posting below the draft "blurb", as received, from the organizers on the upcoming town hall.  Since the receipt, I have been informed by KVMR that they will do a live broadcast of the event.

Foothill Arts Resources & Media (The FARM) is a 501 C 3 Non-Profit entity.  Our mission is to provide professional assistance & occasional funding to local projects that would be of interest to our community, in addition to producing our own events. Our team is comprised of passionate individuals with long-term experience in activism, organizing and event planning, as well as strong independent media involvement.

Our current project is to produce a Town Hall Meeting on the topic of Guns; this will include gun safety, gun violence, interpretations of the Second Amendment to the Constitution, student input, judicial and law enforcement input, and an opportunity for knowledgeable panelists to share their thoughts, feelings & expertise. The goal is to bridge the gap, and rather than be divisive, to find areas where we, as a community, can find common ground, and begin to find workable solutions to this important, ongoing and highly charged topic.  This will be a forum in which the public can ask questions of the panelists. (These questions will be vetted by our team, and will include all points of view, as our goal is to be inclusive).

The meeting will be carried LIVE on NCTV and streamed over the internet on Friday, April 20th, 2018 at 6:30 P.M. and will be held in the Nevada City Council chambers at 317 Broad St. Nevada City, CA.

We are planning to work with KVMR to see if they, too, would be interested in carrying the event. We have received a “thumbs-up” from The Union, as well.

[7apr18 update]  I received the following press release entitled, 'Town Hall Notice – Guns a Community Dialogue' from Ms Patricia Smith of FARM.  It is posted as received.

Press Release:

Guns: A Community Dialog will be the topic of a public Town Hall Meeting to be held on Friday, April 20, from 6:30 – 8:30 pm in the Nevada City Hall Council Chambers, 317 Broad Street. 

The Town Hall is being produced by Foothills Arts Resources & Media (FARM) with partners NCTV and KVMR who will carry a LIVE broadcast of this event. (NCTV, Comcast Ch. 17 or Suddenlink Ch. 16; KVMR, 89.5 FM.) It will also be streamed over the internet at www.kvmr.org and nevadacountytv.org.

Superior Court Judge Thomas Anderson will moderate. The panel consists of Amanda Wilcox, Legislation & Policy Chair of the California Chapters of the Brady Campaign; Carla Holtzclaw, School Safety Trainer & Consultant, retired educator & former Chair of the Santa Clara County Behavioral Health Board; Dr. George Rebane, certified range safety officer, life member of the NRA, who has researched and written extensively on the Second Amendment; Morgan Margulies, a senior at Nevada Union High School and captain of the campus debate team; Jerod Johnson, a retired Grass Valley Police captain, gun safety expert and owner of The Range, and Michael Gomez, former Bureau Chief, California Dept. of Justice Commission on Peace Officer Standards & Training (POST).

Among the topics to be discussed will be school and public safety procedures, warning signs of mental health issues, gun proficiency & safety training, concerns of our youth, and Second Amendment rights.

The goal is to bridge the gap, and rather than be divisive, find areas where we, as a community, can reach common ground. Foremost is finding workable, local solutions to this important, ongoing and highly charged topic.

This will be an inter-active forum in which the public can ask questions of the panelists via written cards. All points of view will be included, however the questions will be vetted to eliminate duplication and remain within the time limitations of a live broadcast.  FARM is a 501 (c) 3, non-profit. Our mission is to provide professional assistance & occasional funding to local projects that would be of interest to our community, in addition to producing our own events.

Seating is limited: Info:530-268-5754 or see FARM's Facebook page, Foothill Arts, Resources and Media FARM where you can reserve a seat.

Posted in , , ,

174 responses to “Gun violence town hall in Nevada City (updated 7apr18)”

  1. Bill Tozer Avatar

    Can’t escape guns I reckon.
    1) “Who needs to shoot out to a 1000 yards”. Well, that’s why it is called the Bill of Rights, not the Bill of Needs. To prevent government from even contemplating taking the citizens’ guns was exactly why the 2nd Amendment was written.
    2).
    A trio of state [SC] House Republicans on Thursday quietly introduced a bill that would allow lawmakers to debate seceding from the U.S. “if the federal government confiscates legally purchased firearms in this State.”
    Other states have proposed secession-related measures. In 2013, several counties moved to secede from Colorado and form their own state, an unsuccessful movement was in part driven by new gun control laws passed by the Democratic legislature.

    Like

  2. Bill Tozer Avatar

    It’s Punchy’s dream come true that we listen to the child at the Townhall. Should be very heart felt and more satiating than a nice smooth consistent movement.. Don’t know about you, but when I was junior or senior in high school, if anyone called me or my classmates a child, it would be taken will great offense. That was a understatement. Anyway, coming to a Townhall near you. Crabbman loves this kind of stuff.
    https://www.facebook.com/lastamericapatriots/photos/a.235087906641439.1073741826.235086849974878/1030395423777346/?type=3&theater
    Street theater? Maybe somebody should dress up as Sam or Elmer Fudd and give the place some comic relief. Nah, Lefties don’t laugh and are a glum unfun lot. Tough audience to try ice breakers on. Still, it may be worth a try.
    https://www.facebook.com/lastamericapatriots/photos/a.235087906641439.1073741826.235086849974878/1028457110637844/?type=3&theater

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  3. Walt Avatar

    A Repub my ass!
    http://dailycaller.com/2018/04/08/vermont-gun-control-laws-protest/
    Kinda like here.
    “WVNY reached out to Gov. Scott’s office and Gun Sense Vermont, a local group advocating for stricter gun control. Neither responded to their request for comment.”
    No need to comment. their work is done on the subject
    Yet gun violence won’t go down one bit.

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  4. scenes Avatar
    scenes

    re: BillT@8:53AM
    Not allowed. Something viewed as a mere prank in 1970 is viewed as terrorism in 2018. Firecrackers would get most anyone a bit of an education in vibrant diversity at a California State Prison.
    I have a funny feeling that any length of prison stay would change our local Green Libertarians political views, but that’s a matter for another day. People who live in a protected environment will always have views based on their surroundings.
    re: Skittles. I couldn’t tell you if purple drank was the main point of a Skittle or two. On youtube, it’s worth checking out charliebo313 for a view of reality, such as it is. If nothing else, I’d like to invest in companies that produce bullet-proof booths for convenience markets.

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  5. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    George at 6:33 – Oh yes. Hence, the popcorn. Well – I’m not sure actual Kabuki theaters sell popcorn, but I’m sure they must have some kind of snacks available.
    As you prepare for your part in the play, I would suggest you model the late Hunter S Thompson. If he couldn’t have lived in Woody Creek, I’m sure Hunter would have felt at home somewhere in the woods in Nevada County.
    You might even want to show this short video:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHeSC_Ws5Ic

    Like

  6. Don Bessee Avatar
    Don Bessee

    Then you have this in londinastan who has more murders than NY –
    An epidemic of stabbings and acid attacks in London has gotten so bad that London mayor Sadiq Khan is announcing broad new “knife control” policies designed to keep these weapons of war out of the hands of Londoners looking to cause others harm.
    The “tough, immediate” measures involve an incredible police crackdown, a ban on home deliveries of knives and acid, and expanding law enforcement stop-and-search powers so that police may stop anyone they believe to be a threat, or planning a knife or acid attack.
    https://www.dailywire.com/news/29179/londons-mayor-declares-intense-new-knife-control-emily-zanotti
    😉

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  7. George Rebane Avatar

    DonB 454pm – Your recent discovery of the London stabbings indicates that you may not have read my KVMR commentary.

    Like

  8. Don Bessee Avatar
    Don Bessee

    Have been well aware of the situation but found the jihadi cab driver mayors new tack interesting. 😉

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  9. Scenes Avatar
    Scenes

    I’ve been enjoying thinking about the paperwork and fuss when this sucker gets passed.
    https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=201520160AB1663
    So much for the Mini-14 carve out.

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  10. Russ Avatar
    Russ

    The Media’s Narrative Is Wrong, Again
    As often happens after high-profile acts of violence committed with firearms, many prominent figures used the event to promote a narrative that blames the National Rifle Association and conservatives for another “mass shooting,” and that claims we need stricter gun control measures to prevent these incidents from occurring in the future.
    However, nothing about the tragedy supports this narrative.
    First, under most widely accepted definitions used by researchers, criminologists, and organizations on all sides of the political spectrum, this incident, while tragic, isn’t a “mass shooting.”
    Although there is no one standard definition of the term, even the broadest definitions—such as the one used by the Harvard School of Public Health and the Mother Jones mass shooting database—typically necessitate that four or more individuals be shot, excluding the shooter.
    In one sense, it doesn’t matter whether the incident technically qualifies as a mass shooting, especially for the three individuals who were wounded or for any other person affected by the active shooter situation.
    But in another sense, it absolutely matters that the media has roundly manipulated the definition of a scary-sounding term in order to promote an agenda dedicated to violating the fundamental constitutional right of law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms.
    Second, it takes an extraordinary amount of mental gymnastics to blame this act of violence on the NRA specifically, or on conservatives generally.
    This woman was not a conservative. She was, in fact, extremely liberal—her YouTube videos promoted a vegan lifestyle and denounced capitalism, and she was a dedicated animal rights activist.
    She was not a member of the NRA or any other Second Amendment advocacy group.
    She lived in a state with one of the most restrictive gun control policies in the nation, which earned the highest rating possible from the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence—in other words, a state where the NRA and conservatives are almost a non-factor from a legislative standpoint.
    Third, California already imposes all of the restrictions that gun control activists typically demand. It has universal background checks, and all private firearm transfers must be conducted through a licensed dealer.
    Residents wanting to purchase a firearm must first obtain a five-year Firearm Safety Certificate, which requires passing a written test administered by a state-certified instructor.
    Firearms dealers can only sell handguns listed on the state’s Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale, and the vast majority of semi-automatic rifles are prohibited as “assault weapons” because they have magazines exceeding a 10-round capacity.
    All firearms purchases require a 10-day waiting period, and there is de facto registration of all firearms.
    Despite this, not only was the woman able to commit a “mass shooting” (in the words of the media), but California has not objectively benefited from restricting the Second Amendment rights of its citizens.
    Since 2000, when California first began imposing more restrictive firearms legislation, the state has suffered through more mass public shootings—defined as four or more individuals shot in a public place, excluding the shooter and gang-related incidents—than any other state.
    It had three times as many mass shootings as Texas, which is roughly equal in population but has an F rating from the Brady Campaign.
    It also continues to have an almost identical violent crime rate to Texas, even though Texas has a 15 percent higher rate of individual gun ownership and its citizens can more easily access and carry those firearms.
    The relative failure of California’s gun laws is hardly surprising given what we know about gun violence in the United States:
    There is little statistical correlation between more restrictive gun control laws and violent crime rates. Some states with very permissive gun laws experience comparatively low levels of violent crime (like Virginia, Kentucky, Idaho, and Maine), while some states with very restrictive gun laws experience comparatively high levels of violent crime (like Maryland, Delaware, and California).
    Most gun homicides—including mass shootings—are carried out with handguns, and rifles of any kind account for an extremely small percentage of annual firearm deaths. The YouTube shooter’s use of a 9 mm handgun was not an anomaly, but the norm.
    The 10 percent of mass shooters who do use “assault weapons” typically do not fire at fast enough rates to cause more carnage than could otherwise have been caused with “non-assault weapons.” The Virginia Tech shooter killed more people with two handguns and extra magazines than the Aurora movie theater shooter killed with an “assault weapon” and a truly high-capacity 100-round drum magazine. The YouTube shooter brought and used at least one extra magazine, meaning the relatively small number of casualties was likely due to inaccuracy, not an inability to access more than 10 rounds of ammunition.
    Very few mass shooters have criminal or mental health histories that disqualify them from legally purchasing firearms. Universal background checks and gun registration therefore have little preventative effect on mass shootings, and had absolutely no effect here—the woman legally purchased her handgun in January after passing every background check, completing a 10-day waiting period, and having her gun registered with the state.
    https://www.dailysignal.com/2018/04/06/youtube-shooting-matters-not-reasons-media-thinks/

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  11. Scenes Avatar
    Scenes

    “and all private firearm transfers must be conducted through a licensed dealer.”
    It’s worse than that. As I understand the current law, any gunsmithing done on a ‘registered assault weapon’ (all those poor guys who were fooled into thinking that those ridiculous bullet buttons and lack of features would last as a rule set) has to be done by a specially licensed gunsmith. Sell it? No can do except to out-of-state or a specially licensed FFL dealer. Inherit it? No.
    Unless I’m wrong, all the rather onerous Roberti-Roos rules now apply to another few million people. What the state is doing is making this stuff a pain to own and by waiting for a few decades, removes completely from the state.
    Looking at that proposed law that I posted, my guess is that all centerfire semi-auto rifles will come under this umbrella in the near term (plus any particularly heinous .22s). Those with removable magazines will be the low hanging fruit.
    That’s what I found so amusing in the arguments with JonSmith. He/she obviously had no clue how strict California law is already.
    Hey, it’s tough building a single-party utopia. Sometimes you have to crack a few eggs.

    Like

  12. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    scenes 909pm
    Unless I’m missing something, that bill died in committee nearly two years ago.

    Like

  13. scenes Avatar
    scenes

    Gregory@8:31AM
    Do you mean this one?
    https://oag.ca.gov/firearms
    Effective January 1, 2017, “Bullet Button” Firearms are Considered Assault Weapons
    or the proposal to sweep up the ‘featureless’ rifles?

    Like

  14. scenes Avatar
    scenes

    Gregory again.
    Ah, I see that you put a time on it, so you were referring to the proposal.
    My understanding is that the more general form of restriction is bouncing around. A quick look at the link I put up shows that it’s a modification of current law, including the 30 inch rule, which I believe was a recent add-on.

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  15. scenes Avatar
    scenes

    as a side note, check out the new bill on gun parts.

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  16. scenes Avatar
    scenes

    here we go:
    http://www.kcra.com/article/ca-lawmakers-promote-10-new-gun-control-bills/18737084
    “One bill would expand California’s assault weapon definition to include high-powered semi-automatic rifles without fixed magazines, though most .22 rifles would be excluded. The current definition requires the rifle to have things like a pistol grip or other military-style fixtures. An estimated half-million owners would have to register approximately two million guns with the state Department of Justice if the bill becomes law, although a similar attempt by Assemblyman David Chiu of San Francisco failed to advance in 2016.”

    Like

  17. Walt Avatar

    Just remove the word “gun” and add “knife”.
    “No excuses: there is never a reason to carry a knife. Anyone who does will be caught, and they will feel the full force of the law,” Khan wrote on Twitter, sharing his new policies.
    https://www.theblaze.com/news/2018/04/09/london-mayor-sadiq-khan-enacts-knife-control-policies-to-crack-down-on-stabbing-epidemic
    Paul?, “jon”? any other Lefty disciples? Just when will it end?
    Those out to do harm, will.

    Like

  18. scenes Avatar
    scenes

    re: Walt@9:56
    You have to admire English knife laws.
    http://shtfplan.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/ban-plastic-knives.jpg
    In Arizona, there’s basically no rules at all except for carrying a knife to school. I’ll have to check the stabbing stats and compare them.
    If you think about it, Arizona is a pretty good laboratory for law to compare to California. Similar demographics (minus Asians I suppose). Right next to each other.

    Like

  19. Bill Tozer Avatar

    London knives come falling down. As a comment says, “for an extra $15, the chef will cut it up for you.
    https://www.facebook.com/RowdyConservatives/photos/a.217983685002343.55586.217926015008110/1293926020741432/?type=3&theater

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  20. George Rebane Avatar

    In the meanwhile, here our progressives stand in awe at how civilized the Brits are in their governance. If only we didn’t have so many knuckle-draggers who have to have their guns taken away bit by piece.

    Like

  21. Bill Tozer Avatar

    re: Update’s update.
    Ms. Patricia Smith from FARM: foothill artist resource and media, ROFLMAO. This is too rich. No offense to artists, but your opinions don’t matter. Ok, I should listen to JayZ going on and on about guns and white privilege, but not listen to his lynics about your ho bag mama spreads her legs for crack and glorifies violence and drugs and bling? Ok, Kate Perry, Madonna, Cher, or the one that jumps out her chair to applaud Romeo Pediphile Polanski, Meryl Streep. Maybe Zuti, the street musician has a provocative insight. Artists are great, but they use only the emotional side of their brains.
    Won’t waste time with the local “media” media. Their news director is the proof in the pudding….an artist as well.
    We already know exactly how Patty from FARM feels on the topic per her Union op-ed. And Dr. Rebane (Mr. NRA Outdated Constitution) is the cause of all the gun woes in America. They have only one solution in mind, the final solution. Wonder if they will prioritize the Townhall March for Life per their mindset by making all feel the welcoming love over individual rights and personalities. You think?
    Spoiler alert: Have not seen one episode of Game of Thrones, but the ending to the first one reminds me of the Townhall and our Sandbox. Heard a main character with the sword tell the rival to confess to treason and his life will be spared. So, the captured confesses to treason and he was killed anyway.
    Good luck, Dr. Rebane. Remember to interrupt and jump in anytime and every time someone talks about a gunman with those three magic words, “I prefer gunperson”. That will make them slow down and choose their words carefully..or not.
    https://www.facebook.com/RowdyConservatives/photos/a.217983685002343.55586.217926015008110/1294552710678763/?type=3&theater

    Like

  22. scenes Avatar
    scenes

    re: BillT@10:01AM
    Game of Thrones. Perfect fodder for modern minds. Lotsa Strong Women if nothing else.
    There perhaps is one lesson there. The Right, which is still being redefined, is in a civil war and doesn’t know it. Until it treats it’s opponent as ruthlessly as it is being treated, it will lose. It may take some time, but it will lose.

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