Rebane's Ruminations
February 2018
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George Rebane

RR has always taken the position that keeping certain facilities (public and private) as ‘gun free zones’ has been and continues to be a terribly misguided policy.  There are millions of CCW permit holders in America who regularly carry, and keeping these folks out of ‘gun free zones’ has demonstrated that the only ones who then do take guns into such facilities are criminals, terrorists, the mentally disturbed, …, and occasionally LE officials when called.

After the recent Parkland, Florida massacre the gun control debate has now expanded to doing something real to prevent and/or mitigate such future massacres by arming selected school staffers with concealed carry firearms.  President Trump has now indicated his backing for this sane policy which is already quietly practiced in multiple school districts across the land.  Giving credit where due, NPR this morning broadcast an interview with a Texas school superintendent about schools in his district which have practiced an armed staff policy for some time with the full support of parents and voters.  (The liberal interviewer did do his best to ask a couple of gotcha questions to which the superintendent had no problem supplying civil and utterly reasonable answers.)


Private schools for the elites have fielded an armed defense presence for years.  These are implemented surreptitiously so that there is no obvious evidence of the school being viewed by anyone, including the students, as either an armed camp or a fortress under imminent siege.  That is the (Israeli) approach which is now returning as a national debate/discussion – the fielding of trained CCW staff and/or volunteers in school districts that so choose to defend their kids against wanton massacres.

As an analog, consider armed air marshals who have been flying on select flights for years.  When that policy was implemented, airline hijackings stopped immediately with the historically tragic exception of 9/11 on which no legal gun happened to be present, and boxcutter wielding terrorists were able to kill thousands.  Imagine airline travel with CCW holders able to fly with their concealed firearms.

The two-part proposition I have is – remove all laws and legal strictures that would prevent 1) CCW permit holders to carry everywhere (with some obvious controlled locations excepted), and 2) implement the ‘Israeli solution’ of CCW armed staff in schools. I commend its consideration to RR readers.

[update]  It is hard to contemplate the abysmal mentality of progressives in light of Moonbeam signing into law a stricture that removes the last opportunity for California's school districts to readily protect their students from wanton walk-in massacres.  In my universe the man is a certified idiot or the most evil cynical politician on record to do that during the ongoing national debate on arming school staffs – already implemented in sparse practice across the country and until today was also in California – which is the ONLY practical remedy and alternative to dedicated teachers shielding their students from the killer’s bullets with their own bodies.  And note that more evidence continues to roll in that government really was the problem in the Parkland massacre as armed deputies cowered outside listening to the killer continuing to murder and maim students and teachers inside the school.  ‘We’re from the government, and we’re here to help.’

[26feb18 update]  Mr George Boardman’s column in the 26feb18 Union (here) is a sad but yet again a revelatory commentary on his and the progressives’ beliefs.  The short version is that he

  1. Does the obligatory vilification of the NRA;
  2. Demonstrates his total misunderstanding of ‘Par Force’;
  3. Thinks arming school personnel (the ‘Israeli solution’) is ridiculous;
  4. And recommends that students start wearing armor to school (vests and helmets).

Not much can be said about his pot shots at the NRA, for the Left it is a rite of confirming membership in good standing, and must be expressed whenever an intellectual of that ilk considers to whom Republicans are beholden, any discussion of firearms and the 2nd Amendment, and, of course, everything that comes under ‘gun violence’ (save the decades long and ongoing slaughter in the Democrat run urban ghettos).

Through either ignorance or political cynicism, he misconstrues par force to be equivalent to “mutual assured destruction”.  Apparently impervious to its purpose of assuring that a popular grievance gets aired before local authorities can ‘black out’ the message that may or not motivate others to join in the protest.  Mr Boardman is an intelligent man, so I give it an 80/20 tradeoff between his agenda-driven cynicism and ignorance.

He would rather have crazed killers be the only ones on campus with guns than arm trained staff to provide a defense that would immediately halt the massacre.  His reasoning – and here’s where that 20% favoring ignorance comes in – is that it’s better for teachers to sacrifice themselves and shield students momentarily with their bodies than engage the killer with a legal weapon.  Why?  (seatbelts please)  “Students could find themselves in a crossfire between two people who aren’t very good shots.”  Not only is Mr Boardman ignorant of the reasoning taught by the Rev Bayes, but he has no concept of the dynamics and psychology that dominate an unexpected firefight when the shooter suddenly realizes that he is being engaged by another armed person.  The last thing the killer will then do is calmly continue executing students.

And the solution of having students start wearing bullet-proof garments and Kevlar helmets in America’s schools takes the discussion to a new level enquiry, the advisability of which (sans the levity it naturally evokes) should be considered under a separate commentary, one which I would invite Mr Boardman to contribute.

Posted in , , ,

112 responses to “Legal guns in schools (updated 26feb18)”

  1. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Trump reiterated his position on having guns in the schools this morning at CPAC. He is a common sense man. He had disgust in his voice for the deputy that hid and did not engage the shooter. Abd today is the first I heard there was someone there.
    Paul Emery, Rasmussen is the most accurate poll and how they do their breakdowns are far superior to others. I will stand by them. You can have your wet dreams with the others.

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  2. jon smith Avatar
    jon smith

    The officer was afraid to match his handgun to an AR. Cowardly, considering his training and duty, yes. Stupid, no.

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  3. George Rebane Avatar

    I note that the liberal blogs and commentators continue to have nothing material to offer in the ‘gun violence’ debate beyond the anecdotal emotings of shocked teenagers, parents, medical staffs, and progressive activists doing their best not to ‘waste’ yet another tragedy. To most of us the aims of the latter are more than obvious, and are definitely not intended to stop school massacres while an American citizen is still allowed to legally own and use a firearm.

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  4. Bill Tozer Avatar

    Yes. Finally, real solutions. Tangible solutions to school shootings. Thank you Dr. Rebane.
    I believe it is not unreasonable to have an armed guard outside of the school as well as a select few teachers or administrations that are most comfortable and proficient in the proper use and handling of a concealed firearm.
    First, the armed guard (be it LE, private security, school staff/approved volunteers) outside the building(s), hopefully with video cameras in conjection being watched on monitors by staff inside the school in real time. If the eyes on the outside see a threat approaching, then the school can go into an immediate lock down and keep the threat outside of the classroom building.
    Second, if the shooter makes it inside the building or the shooter student starts firing inside, then the selected teachers, coaches, or even school nurse with a CCW can spring into action and neutralize the threat, hopefully with a minimal loss of life to the children and teachers. A CCW school employee inside has the advantage of hearing where the gun shots are coming from move to that part of the building or other buildings on the school grounds. He/she can also yell out to the teachers where the shoots are coming from and yell out evacuate out the back or stay put.
    Another advantage of having an armed response inside the school is the trouble LE has when school children are being told to vacate the building, as in the case of a fire alarm being pulled. LE has to enter the building as hundreds of students are fleeing coming out. LE has to get by the school children coming out asthey is trying to get in, thus a hindrance to getting to the shooter.
    Sure, the Matrix is not perfect and the game plan may get tossed out the window when improvision becomes necessary, but it is the most practical and doable solution to a very horrid problem I have seen proposed.

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  5. Bill Tozer Avatar

    ***Reposted my comment on the gun confiscation thread to this post which is more on topic than yapping about Black Panthers and unregulated militias. :). Legal guns in schools:
    Well, the Left still has not proposed one idea that will make school children safer in our schools. Hardening the gun free zones of schools is a solution.
    We want Capital Hill protected. We want our courtrooms protected. We want our Presidents protected, as well as large ventures protected, be they indoor or outside gatherings, be they sporting events, music events, or street demonstrations.
    What does an average Joe Q. Public think when he hears that some speaker or courtroom is protected? I may not be average, but what I think of is armed security with or without video survillance with a real human watching in live time. Protect with armed personnel. Then why can’t we protect schools in the same manner?
    What’s with this mental conspiation when applying the same common sense measures we apply and expect when going to the courthouse to pay a fine but not applying or expecting to our nation’s classrooms?
    How many of us walked our of a courthouse or concert or professional sporting event and said to our acquaintances, “There were just too many guns protecting us.” None I would hazard to say. Average Joe does not say that. More importantly, the average Joe Q. Public does not even think that way.
    The Average Joe Q. Public wants the laws on the books enforced and when the next shooting starts, they want someone firing back. They understand the terms “soft targets” and “protect our children.”
    The path of least resistance.
    https://www.facebook.com/RowdyConservatives/photos/a.217983685002343.55586.217926015008110/1263656640435037/?type=3&theater
    Posted by: Bill Tozer | 23 February 2018 at 09:53 AM

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  6. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    Seems congruent to my proposal to drop the Gun-Free School Zone enforcement (introduced by Joe Biden in 1990) unless the zone is hardened with metal detectors, guards, etc. No more pretend gun-free zones. If it’s to be a gun-free zone, there had better be a real effort to insure it’s gun-free.
    Public property that isn’t hardened would be accessible to CCW holders if they also had business being there. Private property… access is up to the property owners.
    Regarding the droopy Deputy… no word about his pension benefits. Will he be charged for the armed guards posted 24/7 around his home? Would he ask for a refund if they scattered if someone arrived and started shooting?
    The FUE is pushing an article written by a radiologist giving testimony about the wounds the kids got and stating outright there was no reason for civilians to own an AR-15 (although the wounds would be the same by any rifle firing the same round, a .223/5.56). So again, Jeff, is your place of business a gun free zone?

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  7. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: Gregory | 23 February 2018 at 12:22 PM
    The FUE is pushing an article written by a radiologist giving testimony about the wounds the kids got and stating outright there was no reason for civilians to own an AR-15 (although the wounds would be the same by any rifle firing the same round, a .223/5.56). So again, Jeff, is your place of business a gun free zone?

    Fortunately nobody pays any attention to the FUE and our resident Green Libertarian™ has conceded the argument.

    10 U.S. Code § 246 – Militia: composition and classes
    (a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
    (b) The classes of the militia are—
    (1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
    (2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

    Since militia members are expected to be equipped or equip themselves to a level roughly comparable to an army infantryman the AR15 is perfectly acceptable to purchase, own, and use as part of the militia members equipment complement.
    Please note that this also lowers the age at which the weapon can be purchased.
    As I said in the other thread…..I really didn’t think Punch bought into libertarianism Green or otherwise. For the record I was wrong about his political stance on a more expansive interpretation of the 2nd amendment.!

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  8. Bonnie McGuire Avatar

    A teacher at the State Board of Education many years ago predicted this would happen because of what our schools were teaching. And I have to add a high school teacher telling me they weren’t allowed to “moralize.” Immediately it occurred to me that when I was a kid in school we were rewarded for good citizenship. Anyway, isn’t all this baloney nothing more than the new way of conducting psychological warfare the Russian leaders recommend? Looking at the natural world…Nature provides every creature with a self defense mechanism to survive predictors. Since some humans choose to prey on others we need to be able to protect ourselves, because it’s our personal responsibility. Our government created the problem (drugging children) proving we cannot trust it to protect us unless we become a totalitarian police state. That’s why our Constitution’s 2nd Amendment is the law enabling us to protect ourselves and others from all predators.

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  9. Walt Avatar

    But Moonbat signed THIS!!!
    http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/education/article179209356.html
    “For years, Folsom and Rancho Cordova schools have allowed some employees to carry guns on campus because district leaders believed their students were safer that way.
    Come Jan. 1, those guns have to stay elsewhere.
    Gov. Jerry Brown on Saturday signed legislation preventing school districts from allowing non-security employees to carry guns on campus. Folsom Cordova Unified is the only large district in the Sacramento region that has allowed people with concealed weapons permits to be armed, along with a handful of districts around California that include Kingsburg Joint Union High School District in Fresno County.
    Folsom Cordova, which has 20,000 students, has allowed firearms on campus since 2010 with special permission from the superintendent. Teachers and bus drivers have not been allowed to have guns.”
    So the next shooting in the state can now be placed at Brown’s doorstep.

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  10. George Rebane Avatar

    Evidence that progressives are blithering idiots is a torrent that just grows daily.

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  11. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Rush had a caller from Minnesota today that said the Sheriff/Police needed more space so they worked a deal with the schools and had satellite offices in them. Of course, they would have on their uniforms and would carry. Maybe there is some merit in this.

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  12. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Looks like the old 60’s hippies have instilled their “marching for something” methodology as the left is trying to go nationwide with the youngins agains guns.

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  13. Bill Tozer Avatar

    “Asking a teacher to be ready to confront a school shooter with a firearm is an enormous, almost unthinkable request. But is it any better to ask a teacher to be ready to confront a school shooter with a fire extinguisher or chair?” —Jim Geraghty

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  14. George Rebane Avatar

    BillT 811am – Yes Mr Tozer, such comparisons are countless. Yet the important thing for us to always consider is that ALL such arguments roll off the ears of progressives as does the proverbial water off a duck’s back. As a class of human mentalities, the progressives’ system of logic and use of utility to support decision making are either absent or, at best, belong in another world unreachable by the rest of us.

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  15. Walt Avatar

    Legal guns in liqueur stores.
    http://dailycaller.com/2018/02/24/mom-daughter-oklahoma-liquor-store-robbery/
    The anti gunners would have preferred the women to be victims.

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  16. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    I can’t imagine any of my teachers in Grammar or high school carrying guns. What a stupid idea. Also, Imagine he liability schools would have to assume and what would happen the first time a bullet goes astray and hits a student. .

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  17. Walt Avatar

    I’m sure they did Paul, back then every adult carried a musket and a cap&ball pistol.(the ladies,, pepper boxes)

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  18. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Many of the teachers in my classes as a young person wereWW2 soldiers, sailors etc. They would have been fine with a weapon and how to use one. And many kids had their guns in the gun racks in the parking lot at school. Never one incident I can recall. Liberals think they can talk that killer out of killing so of course, they would be the first dead person.

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  19. Bill Tozer Avatar

    I would not mess with some of those militant school crossing ladies. They take their jobs seriously and would just as soon shoot the violators who fail to stop than look at them.
    What a stupid idea? Leaving our children unprotected is a stupid idea.
    “I can’t imagine any of my teachers in Grammar or high school carrying guns.” Somehow that does not surprise me. First, one needs an imagination to think outside the Bubble. Second, the safety of our children entrusted to our government run public schools lies squarely on the local schools and school districts. Third, there is a difference between mental illness and evil.
    But, by all means, go ahead and leave our children unprotected. You can run and hide behind the teachers’ skirts like that pussy LE in Florida did when the shootings starts. You would just be in the way anyway.
    Go ahead and trust the system to catch those who fall threw the cracks. Go ahead and lock up every teenager that cuts themselves. There are thousands of girls that cut themselves crying out for help from sea to shinning sea. It’s a fad like eating Tide Pods, which is the first sign of arrested development.
    Go ahead and trust the experts to tell you exactly on which day the at risk teenager is going to snap. Nikalos Cage and his friend (who goes to the same school Nikolas shot up and whose house he was staying at ) exchanged several texts that morning. “Hey Bro, what’s going on? Wanna hang later? What to hook up after school at so and so place. This class is sooooo boring.” Nothing unusual there.
    Go ahead and tell us again how much you want our children safe. Go ahead and tell us your plan to protect children and teenagers inside a school building if the shooting starts. Another law? Better background checks? Metal detectors? Closing down entrances into a school to one or two ways only. Yep, those are being tried in various school districts.
    Whose skirt are you going to hide behind when the bullets start flying at kids at the next school shooting? Oh yes, there will be more school shootings. The copy-cats are coming out of the woodwork and LE jurisdictions are being flooded with leads from coast to coast.
    https://www.facebook.com/lastamericapatriots/photos/a.235087906641439.1073741826.235086849974878/1005414359608786/?type=3&theater
    https://www.facebook.com/lastamericapatriots/photos/a.235087906641439.1073741826.235086849974878/1005423306274558/?type=3&theater

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  20. Bill Tozer Avatar

    Oh Punchy, it’s a mute point anyway. There will be no guns on school campuses in California per Gov. Brownstreak., with the exception of LE thr hired approved school resource officer. Worked great in Florida, eh?
    So much for local control.

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  21. Walt Avatar

    I’m sure the Xbox,and PlayStation online warfare games have no influence on these shootings… right?

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  22. Bill Tozer Avatar

    And all this time I thought our Founders only envisioned muskets. Guess not. Maybe just sticks and stones.
    https://jonathanturley.org/2018/02/21/california-city-bars-revolutionary-war-reenactment-from-using-muskets/

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  23. Bill Tozer Avatar

    Maybe the teachers and janitor can throw dodge balls at the active shooter strolling down the halls right past the Hallway Monitor, trying various door knobs. Opps, strike that. Schools have already banned dodgeballs. It makes losers of the game feel sad and hurts their feelings and not valued.
    Guess the kids nowadays will never have the glorious pleasure of knowing what it feels like to have a dodge ball or kick ball drilled against the side of one’s face. We must protect their feelings, but not their lives? I hope I never ever will be able wrap my head around that way of ass backwards thinking.

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  24. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 634pm – It is the dysfunctional social policy thinkers who believe that the it’s better to stop a killer’s bullet with a teacher’s body and then let the killer keep killing, instead of giving the teacher the means to engage the killer and stop him or at least keep him from being able to continue his wanton killing spree until the police arrived. The trade-off for a stray bullet like you point out is butt simple to resolve, but I guess not for innumerate progressives. None of you have given a smidgen of rationale for denying guns to trained school staffers.
    And yes, I could imagine ALL of my teachers from grade school up being able to handle a CCW weapon, and every one of them would have done so to save their students’ lives. Your teachers must have been the relatives of the cowering sheriffs of Broward County.
    Your arguments again confirm that our polarized populations need to live under different forms of governance.

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  25. Bill Tozer Avatar

    For those who have some time, this little 15 minutes commentary is not bad. Punch line is it’s not the gun or crockpot or car, it’s the will to do it. Actually, it’s pretty good, low key style. I must see for Punchy, but you can lead a horse to water, but…..
    https://patriotpost.us/articles/54333-video-be-afwaid-be-vewy-afwaid

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  26. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    Toes 812pm
    Sorry to be a fussbudget here, but the phrase you’re looking for is “moot point”.
    http://www.dictionary.com/e/moot-point-vs-mute-point/
    One of those common misuses …

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  27. Bill Tozer Avatar

    Not that I am a huge Ben Sharpio fan, but rather it is because Ben is so quotable.
    … “The biggest problem with the gun control debate has been its failure to boil down slogans to proposals. That problem won’t be alleviated so long as the media insist on putting mourning teenagers on television with the chyron ‘DO SOMETHING.’ Something is nothing unless someone puts some actual proposals on the table.” —Ben Shapiro.

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  28. George Rebane Avatar

    BillT 302pm – Apparently Shapiro has not been paying attention. Proposals are already on the table ranging from taking all guns to arming school staffs.

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  29. Scenes Avatar
    Scenes

    My simplistic world view is as follows:
    . Rifles of this sort have been available for decades, there was a huge growth in ownership in the late 1970’s and early 1980’s.
    . Shootings of this type are a relatively new thing
    So what changed? Perhaps we just need to back up on those changes.

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  30. Don Bessee Avatar
    Don Bessee

    A profile in failure, even the Clinton news network analyst describes this appearance as pride go’s before the fall while the Florida legislature is calling on the Gov to remove Israel from office.
    https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/25/politics/sheriff-israel-sotu-full-transcript/index.html
    😉

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  31. Bill Tozer Avatar

    Call me jaded, but we have to consider the 2018 FL Senate race when weighing surprising comments from Gov. Rick Scott as well as Sen. Bill Nelson.
    https://ballotpedia.org/United_States_Senate_election_in_Florida,_2018

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  32. George Rebane Avatar

    ‘What changed?’ has been the perennial question on RR for over a decade. And it still needs to be asked because the Left’s response is crickets, and resumption of their demands for complete confiscation.

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  33. Bill Tozer Avatar

    For those who have a few spare moments, this is my kind of woman. Highly recommended, albeit this may be the wrong post.
    The government has failed to protect us and now they want to take away our guns.
    “I got news for you. We are mothers, too.” Shame on you!
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=U4jfRxn-RL0&feature=player_embedded
    PS: The Texas Church Shooter was stopped cold by an NRA member using his AR-15.

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  34. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Funny how the left always ridicules anyone on the right that likes the “good old days” of the fifties. They say oh, you like Jim Crow and blacks etal being discriminated against. Now they say they like those days as there were no school shootings. I recall the Texas Tower though. Was that in the 50’s or 60’s?

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  35. Bill Tozer Avatar

    Yep, Scenes was right. The Obama Promise Program is how and why Cruz could legally buy a gun.
    http://prospect.org/article/reversing-broward-countys-school-prison-pipeline
    “Students who engaged in violence, drug sales, robberies, burglaries, theft and other various crimes were intentionally kept out of the criminal justice system. County administrators and School Superintendents told local and county law enforcement officers to stop arresting students
    Unfortunately, the school board mandated policies came into conflict with law and order. The problem of the conflicted policy -vs- legality worsened over time as the police excused much more than misdemeanor crimes. Over time this culminated in police officers falsifying documents, hiding criminal activity, lying on official police reports and even hiding stolen merchandise police retrieved from high school students.”
    https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2018/02/19/school-shooting-was-outcome-of-broward-county-school-board-policy-now-local-and-national-politicians-weaponize-kids-for-ideological-intents/

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  36. jon smith Avatar
    jon smith

    Trump claims he would have run into the school unarmed . . . with a bone spur to boot. Be he ever so humble.

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  37. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    George
    the main purpose of the NRA is to sell guns. They are essential in providing information to enhance the necessity of arming the populace and providing a twisted interpretation of the 2nd Amendment which creates the need for more product which their clients provide despite the ramifications. they are very good at what they do.

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  38. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    there are estimates of 270 million to 310 million guns in the United States — close to one firearm for every man, woman and child. Good work NRA.

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  39. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    The Orange Blob wound have a heart attack if he tried to run. Why didn’t he display his heroics in the Viet Nam war. Oh yeah, he had bone spurs and dodged the draft.

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  40. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    “President Trump told a gathering of the nation’s governors Monday that he would have heroically run into the high school where a gunman armed with an assault rifle was massacring 17 people — even if he had been empty-handed.”
    https://nypost.com/2018/02/26/trump-says-he-would-have-run-into-high-school-unarmed-during-massacre-to-save-kids/

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  41. Bill Tozer Avatar

    From a former CA superientant of schools.
    There has never been one case In CA of a stray bullet or accidental discharge of a concealed weapon by any teacher or administrative staff ever being documented in the State of California.
    https://www.facebook.com/lastamericapatriots/photos/a.235087906641439.1073741826.235086849974878/1006403652843190/?type=3&theater

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  42. Walt Avatar

    From Paul,”the main purpose of the NRA is to sell guns”
    What a load of mule shit.
    The NRA is there to protect the rights of gun owners. No matter which color they are.
    Once again Paul shows his stupidity.

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