Rebane's Ruminations
February 2018
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“Over the last fifty years, it’s the Left that has assaulted every moral norm and disdained every religious and cultural restraint.”  Andrew Klavan

George Rebane

Student groups across the land are now forming to protest the ownership and availability of guns in America.  Their tearful yet uninformed emotions will supply more grist for grinding down the Second Amendment in the name of ‘saving the children’.  I don’t want to re-circle the barn on all the arguments that correctly point out that no new gun control law suggested by the Left would have prevented the Parkland massacre.

Ramirez_180219

I gave my views on a reasonable approach to preventing such shootings in ‘Stopping School Shooters’.  We know it works because it is successfully applied in Israel and at the schools to which the elites send their kids.  However, the peasant children can serve a far more useful role for the elites as pawns – to sacrifice in their schools, or parade for the press where they can influence the country’s neurochallenged, a new term to join ‘neurodiverse’, ‘neurotypical’, ‘neurodivergent’ … introduced by leftwing academicians (more here).

The only thing that I’ve heard which merits discussion and possible immediate implementation are the so-called Red Flag laws.  Five states have these which allow a family member, who is almost always aware of a developing situation, to alert authorities who can then temporarily but immediately remove access to guns by the disturbed individual.  The removal of the guns is not permanent, and their return depends on how the case is subsequently diagnosed and adjudicated.  Bottom line, it is those close to the individual who can nip a developing situation in the bud, and thereby prevent a suicide or a tragic shooting like in Parkland.


California’s crazy and crazier gun laws are Exhibit A in all this, especially as it applies to the constructive prohibition of ‘assault rifles’, specifically the AR-15 variants.  Never mind that this gun is rarely used by criminals, and that ‘gun violence’ has been decreasing over the last 25 years.  Our state’s continuing path toward confiscation will have as much impact on the Parkland type shootings as its climate change laws have on global warming.

The answer, as most students of the contemporary American scene know, lies in the disintegration of what used to be our common culture.  NY Post columnist Arnold Ahlert collects these thoughts in his ‘It’s the Culture, Not the Guns’.  There he makes the case that “Leftists want to restrict the entire conversation to gun control. But their destruction of culture is the culprit.”

In the final analysis, the cost of living free means living with risks.  And removing risks inevitably redeems our liberties, which itself is useful for powering elitist agendas.  Everything has a price, which includes returning to tyrannical autocracies like the many states of the 20th century, today survived by North Korea, Cuba, China, Vietnam, … and now joined by Russia and Venezuela.  The gun control issue, along with several others (e.g. federally funded abortion, free speech, religion and state, …), was and always will be about the new world order under control of the elites. 

[21feb18 update]  Subsequent to my comment on the role of par force in a free society, the comment stream below took up the thread and expanded on it, but so far without much profit from examining it in a reasonable manner.  I responded with the following which I now post here as a needed update to the above commentary.

Sadly none of the Left have read my piece on par force, let alone understand its main tenet. All the above horseshit about grenades and tanks and private armies attests to that. The function of civilians possessing par force with the local constabulary is that the state cannot quickly snuff out or shut down legitimate protest against the rogue/illegal behavior of state agents/agencies (in the well-practiced manner of totalitarian countries). That people so aggrieved have the means to gather, hold off authorities long enough for the word to get out to other citizens across the land who then decide to join the resistance, or demur and let the initially aggrieved be taken by the state’s eventual superior force and face the full consequences of their ill-advised (or ill-timed) opposition. Without such available par force, there is no chance of such penultimate resistance. This has been demonstrated time and again during the last two centuries.

The last beneficial use of par force was the recent Bundy ranch standoff. It brought (and continues to bring) attention to an aspect of government overreach that would have been buried in the courts had not the Bundy family and their many compatriots (some travelling hundreds of miles to join them with their arms) been willing to risk their lives to draw attention to what they believed was rank injustice. A free people should always have the means to exercise their will through par force when they feel the established legal avenues no longer work. A nation of disarmed sheeple no longer have that option, for they have become the herded and compliant livestock of the state.

And here is what a reasoned, researched, and referenced response looks like in this debate written by Ignatius Piazza, head of Front Sight, a well-known firearms training firm – Download FrontSight.  The Left is invited to submit their best equivalent – I will post it here.

Posted in , , , , ,

456 responses to “Gun Confiscation – again on the march (updated 21feb18)”

  1. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Don’t have a clue of what you are talking about

    Like

  2. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    So Paul, it doesn’t sound like you’ve grokked the Volokh piece I linked, or you wouldn’t be off track trying to figure out whether the Black Panthers would qualify as a regulated or an unregulated militia under the 2nd. The 2nd doesn’t grant any authorization for “militias”, regulated or not.
    The Panthers did count as “the people” exercising their right to keep and bear arms.

    Like

  3. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    I did read it and it’s a respectable opinion Gregory. Thanks for adding it to the conversation. The Black Panthers are worth a discussion as to the real world application of the 2nd Amendment and I agree with your conclusion.

    Like

  4. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    George
    Do you concur with the agreement Gregory and I have about the 2nd Amendment and the Black Panthers.

    Like

  5. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    Paul, you and I are as right angles to reality on the Black Panthers and militias and proof that you didn’t get anything from the Volokh piece on the 2nd.
    Your blissful ignorance is astonishing.

    Like

  6. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    A great comment stolen from elsewhere…
    A week ago Congress was asking Tide to change the design of their Pods so teenagers would stop eating them.
    This week, the media believes that teenagers should determine gun control laws…

    Like

  7. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: Gregory | 22 February 2018 at 10:51 PM
    Your blissful ignorance is astonishing.

    ……no….not really!

    Like

  8. fish Avatar
    fish

    Gregory…..I’ll see your pithy Tide Pods ™ comment and raise with….

    “.. one for your school but we have six armed officers who will guard a coward’s house 24×7 so he doesn’t have to answer questions from the media.”

    Ouch!
    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/02/23/police-officers-guard-home-deputy-assigned-to-florida-hs-who-never-went-in-during-shooting-report.html

    Like

  9. fish Avatar
    fish

    You would expect otherwise from CNN?

    Florida Shooting Survivor Doubles Down: CNN’s Entire Townhall Was Scripted

    “The latest embarrassing blow to CNN’s (already tattered) credibility emerged last night when Colton Haab, the student who first exposed CNN for pushing him to ask a scripted question during Wednesday night’s town hall appeared on Tucker Carlson Tonight to offer even more shocking details about CNN’s conduct.
    Yesterday, we noted that Haab, a Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School student and shooting survivor, had come forward to say he decided not to attend Wednesday night’s CNN town hall after CNN producers gave him a pre-scripted question for him to ask.
    But Haab told Carlson that the producers didn’t just want him to ask one scripted question: They essentially rewrote a list of questions and political points that he wanted to make at the town hall, prompting him to back away from the town hall. Haab told Carlson he shared with CNN what he wanted to say, but a producer named Carrie Stevenson ultimately rejected it, and instead after several conversations “scripted” a question for him”.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-02-23/they-rewrote-all-my-questions-student-says-cnns-gun-control-town-hall-was-entirely

    Like

  10. Walt Avatar

    Paul needs to produce PROOF that the terrorist ORG
    known as the black panthers actually “protected” the people from harm. Most “members” that have showed up in the press were felons.. Paul. Felons can’t own firearms, or weapons.
    Good luck with the militia that is barred from possessing weapons.
    So in your book, a black panther standing outside a voting spot with a bat, scaring off voters, was a valid militia action?
    Seek mental help.

    Like

  11. fish Avatar
    fish

    Punchys buddies the Black Panthers……

    “In pursuit of answers to the mystery of Betty’s (Van Patter) death, I subsequently discovered that the Panthers had killed more than a dozen people in the course of conducting extortion, prostitution and drug rackets in the Oakland ghetto. While these criminal activities were taking place, the group enjoyed the support of the American left, the Democratic Party, Bay Area trade unions and even the Oakland business establishment. (The head of Clorox, Oakland’s largest company, for example, sat on the board of the Educational Opportunities Corp.)”

    ……extortion, prostitution and drug rackets
    You have an interesting definition of neighborhood protection Punch!
    https://www.salon.com/1999/12/13/betty/

    Like

  12. Walt Avatar

    Paul. So is it your position that MS13 (MEX drug gang) are just misunderstood peaceful dope growers?

    Like

  13. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    The original purpose of the Black Panthers was to protect their neighborhoods against police brutality. That is consistent with the 2nd Amendment.

    Like

  14. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: Paul Emery | 23 February 2018 at 09:02 AM
    The original purpose of the Nazi Party was to rebuild Germanys economy.

    Like

  15. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    The original purpose of the Black Panthers was to rob and murder their own people.

    Like

  16. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    If you have any doubts I suggest you go read David Horowitz’ books on them. He was a member.

    Like

  17. Walt Avatar

    That’s utter bullshit Paul.
    The Black Panther Party or the BPP was a revolutionary socialist organization founded by Bobby Seale and Huey Newton.

    Like

  18. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Trump at 51%. Paul Emery take your meds.

    Like

  19. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    The question is that did they have the right to arm themselves under the interpretation of the 2nd Amendment supported by participants of this blog. Under that interpretation I contend they do. As George would put it it’s the price of freedom.

    Like

  20. Walt Avatar

    So you support the criminal element possessing guns.
    Thanks for clarifying.

    Like

  21. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Early history
    The Black Panthers were formed in California in 1966 and they played a short but important part in the civil rights movement. The Black Panthers believed that the non-violent campaign of Martin Luther King had failed and any promised changes to their lifestyle via the ‘traditional’ civil rights movement, would take too long to be implemented or simply not introduced.

    Like

  22. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: Paul Emery | 23 February 2018 at 09:32 AM
    Under that interpretation I contend they do.

    Under that premise Punch all of your other arguments for gun control go out the window. Automatic weapons, high capacity magazines, grenades etc. are all permissible to militia members. Your endorsement of the unorganized militia aspect makes your prior complaints especially untenable.
    I stand corrected!
    You do have a different take on the 2nd amendment!

    Like

  23. Walt Avatar

    BS Paul.
    The Black Panthers were involved in numerous violent encounters with police. In 1967, founder Huey Newton allegedly killed Oakland police officer John Frey.

    Like

  24. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Down 11.5 in consensus polls Todd. You cite only one poll and ignore the rest.

    Like

  25. Walt Avatar

    I wonder if Paul knows the NRA was formed to protect minorities rights to own guns?
    It was the Democrats who were writing laws forbidding guns in the hands of Black people.
    Paul is on the wrong side of history.. Again.

    Like

  26. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    I didn’t endorse the Black Panthers Fish I only noted that under your interpretation they have the right to bear arms to defend themselves. You fell into a trap. Jab Jab Jab

    Like

  27. Bill Tozer Avatar

    Well, the Left still has not proposed one idea that will make school children safer in our schools. Hardening the gun free zones of schools is a solution.
    We want Capital Hill protected. We want our courtrooms protected. We want our Presidents protected, as well as large ventures protected, be they indoor or outside gatherings, be they sporting events, music events, or street demonstrations.
    What does an average Joe Q. Public think when he hears that some speaker or courtroom is protected? I may not be average, but what I think of is armed security with or without video survillance with a real human watching in live time. Protect with armed personnel. Then why can’t we protect schools in the same manner?
    What’s with this mental conspiation when applying the same common sense measures we apply and expect when going to the courthouse to pay a fine but not plying or expecting to our nation’s classrooms?
    How many of us walked our of a courthouse or concert or professional sporting event and said to our acquaintances, “There were just too many guns protecting us.” Average Joe does not say that. More importantly, the average Joe Q. Public does not even think that way.
    The Average Joe Q. Public wants the laws on the books enforced and when the next shooting starts, they want someone firing back. They understand the terms “soft targets” and “protect our children.”
    The path of least resistance.
    https://www.facebook.com/RowdyConservatives/photos/a.217983685002343.55586.217926015008110/1263656640435037/?type=3&theater

    Like

  28. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: Paul Emery | 23 February 2018 at 09:50 AM
    You fell into a trap. Jab Jab Jab

    You really don’t recognize that you’ve just completely undermined every gun control argument you’ve ever made?

    Like

  29. George Rebane Avatar

    Legal guns in schools has become a separate thread in the ongoing ‘gun violence’ debate. Please contribute your thoughts on this specific issue in the comment stream to ‘Legal guns in schools’ here –
    http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2018/02/legal-guns-in-schools.html

    Like

  30. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE re Black Panthers – You continue to be unclear on the concept of par force. Yes indeed, the Black Panthers had every right to arm themselves and confront authorities in order to get the word out to the nation about their grievances. The nation heard and judged these grievances to be without merit, and most certainly not sufficient to inspire others to pick up their arms and join the BP resistance. But the fact of the matter is that people could have if the BP grievances were considered to have merit. The nation had the ability to pass judgment, and the judgment agreed with the authorities that BP was an organization of thugs and criminals flying a false flag. The result was that select BP members were prosecuted and sent to jail, and/or died in firefights with LE officers. All part and parcel of a free people exercising their rights and being responsible for the consequences.

    Like

  31. Walt Avatar

    So Paul, are you going to take up arms to protect the “rights” of dope growers against the FEDS?
    I’m sure you consider that “enforcement”,, persecution.

    Like

  32. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    I’m not a grower Walt

    Like

  33. Bill Tozer Avatar

    FYI Eldridge Cleaver got bail and escaped to Cuba. In 1979, Angelia Davis escaped from prison and fled to Cuba.
    “After spending seven years in exile in Cuba, Algeria, and France, Cleaver returned to the US in 1975, where he became involved in various religious groups (Unification Church and CARP) before finally joining the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, as well as becoming a conservative Republican, appearing at Republican events.[6]
    Cleaver a Moonie? Cleaver a Mormon? Well, it was drug addiction that finally took Eldridge down when all was said and done. The author of Soul on Ice once put Timothy Leary under house arrest in Algeria for Mr. Leary’s drug abuse, lol.
    Drug addiction is no respector of persons, skin color, beliefs, religion, fame, fortune or lack thereof. Eldridge Cleaver died at the Pomona Medical Center of all places.
    Carry on.

    Like

  34. Bill Tozer Avatar

    More on Mr. Cleaver. Didn’t know he was a Soledad brother.
    As a teenager, he was involved in petty crime and spent time in youth detention centers. At the age of 18, he was convicted of a felony drug charge (marijuana, a felony at the time) and sent to the adult prison at Soledad. In 1958, he was convicted of rape and assault with intent to murder, and eventually served time in Folsom and San Quentin prisons.[1][2] While in prison, he was given a copy of The Communist Manifesto.[7] Cleaver was released on parole December 12, 1966, with a discharge date of March 20, 1971. In 1968 he was arrested on violation of Parole by association with individual(s) of bad reputation, and control and possession of firearms[8]. Cleaver petitioned for habeas corpus to the Solano County Court, and was granted it along with a release of a $50,000 bail.[7]
    Cleaver was a presidential candidate in 1968 on the ticket of the Peace and Freedom Party.[13]
    Also in 1968, Cleaver led an ambush of Oakland police officers, during which two officers were wounded. In the aftermath of the ambush, Cleaver was wounded and 17-year-old Black Panther member Bobby Hutton was killed.
    Ah, the good old days. “When the revolution comes, there will be no more Nigga or Bullshit.”

    Like

  35. Walt Avatar

    Just added another name to the Ca. State militia…Mine.

    Like

  36. ArchieBunker Avatar
    ArchieBunker

    Why don’t the gun toting retirees volunteer to hang out at the schools?

    Like

  37. Walt Avatar

    Really archie? Proggys won’t have it. But you would have plenty willing to do so.
    If you look at the other thread, you will see where your old man Brown made sure teachers could not be armed.(or anyone else for that matter… Except the next shooter)

    Like

  38. George Rebane Avatar

    ArcheB 337pm – Please pay attention Mr Bunker, this already is a matured recommendation and being fully included in the debate.

    Like

  39. Walt Avatar

    The 1ST Amend. really needs a new look. “Freedom of the press” has outlived it’s usefulness. Media has taken too much liberty in reporting. They don’t “report” anymore. It’s partisan opinion.
    Now “the press” says the 2ND Amen. is just a “so-called” right.
    http://www.breitbart.com/video/2018/02/23/msnbcs-wallace-nyts-stephens-call-2nd-amendment-called-right/
    Time to do a little “restricting” of the media. Lets see how well they would take it. They would squeeel louder than Hillary on election night.

    Like

  40. Bill Tozer Avatar

    The 2nd Amendment reading material. The whole people are the militia.
    “The notion of collective rights is wholly the invention of the Progressive founders of the administrative state, who were engaged in a self-conscious effort to supplant the principles of limited government embodied in the Constitution. For these Progressives, what Madison and other Founders called the “rights of human nature” were merely a delusion characteristic of the 18th century. Science, they held, has proven that there is no permanent human nature—that there are only evolving social conditions. As a result, they regarded what the Founders called the “rights of human nature” as an enemy of collective welfare, which should always take precedence over the rights of individuals. For Progressives then and now, the welfare of the people—not liberty—is the primary object of government, and government should always be in the hands of experts. This is the real origin of today’s gun control hysteria—the idea that professional police forces and the military have rendered the armed citizen superfluous; that no individual should be responsible for the defense of himself and his family, but should leave it to the experts. The idea of individual responsibilities, along with that of individual rights, is in fact incompatible with the Progressive vision of the common welfare.
    This way of thinking was wholly alien to America’s founding generation, for whom government existed for the purpose of securing individual rights….
    https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/the-second-amendment-as-an-expression-of-first-principles/

    Like

  41. Barry Pruett Avatar
    Barry Pruett

    Bill. I just came here to post this very article. Really good.

    Like

  42. George Rebane Avatar

    BillT 527pm – Mr Tozer you nailed it again. I recalled an Imprimis that had excellent coverage of the 2nd Amend, and was also just starting to look for it. Thank you.
    PS. Great minds and all that BarryP 😉

    Like

  43. Paul Emery Avatar

    Who does the “restricting” Walt? The party in power?

    Like

  44. Barry Pruett Avatar
    Barry Pruett

    Paul. You need to read the article. The article also answers your previous questions about militia and the origins for the second amendment and its purpose.

    Like

  45. Walt Avatar

    The confiscation Queen is at it again.
    http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article201958349.html
    YES! Get those AR guns off the streets. Adopt one, or a few.
    Being alone on the cold streets is no place for a homeless weapon.

    Like

  46. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: Walt | 24 February 2018 at 11:42 AM
    Yeah…..DiFi was more circumspect when she felt “safe” in her seat.
    You’re going to see the sorts of outbursts from her as whispers about her “time being past” continue!

    Like

  47. Scenes Avatar
    Scenes

    re: BarryPruett@6:36 “Paul. You need to read the article. ”
    lol. Are you kidding? That dude is pure troll, and in the case of guns all these same arguments have been rehashed again and again on any number of web forums. I’ve gotten bored with old men who argue like precocious junior high school boys some time ago.
    What I’ve always loved is the neenering about the word ‘militia’, which seems to imply Army National Guard to these people. I’ve got a teensy brain in terms of the legalities, but always thought that the wikipedia (a famous uber-rightwing website) entry wasn’t bad.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#Meaning_of_“well_regulated_militia”
    Until someone can alter the Supreme Court and/or change the Constitution, any changes will be few and far between. The Court is a lower hurdle, of course. With properly chosen Justices, the Founders’ thoughts can be tortured into any shape desired.

    Like

  48. Bill Tozer Avatar

    “I’ve gotten bored with old men who argue like precocious junior high school boys some time ago.”
    Yep. I hear ya. Waste of time, was of breath, but the fight goes on. For the record, Punchy did not say A-bombs. He said tactical nuculear weapons..
    Waste of time to post old memes as well. Think I will say goodbye to these two. Those arguments fall of deaf hears and blind ears. Too bad we can’t stop the diarehhia dribbling out of their pie holes. I respect their right to remain stupid. Bye bye old memes..
    https://www.facebook.com/rob.paige1/posts/1985102981499695
    https://www.facebook.com/RowdyConservatives/photos/a.217983685002343.55586.217926015008110/1263899950410706/?type=3&theater

    Like

  49. Bill Tozer Avatar

    My, my. Look at all those semi-automatic firearms. Bye bye newer meme. Waste of time, waste of breath.
    https://www.facebook.com/PatriotPost/photos/a.82108390913.80726.51560645913/10155441702095914/?type=3&theater

    Like

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