Rebane's Ruminations
February 2018
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“Over the last fifty years, it’s the Left that has assaulted every moral norm and disdained every religious and cultural restraint.”  Andrew Klavan

George Rebane

Student groups across the land are now forming to protest the ownership and availability of guns in America.  Their tearful yet uninformed emotions will supply more grist for grinding down the Second Amendment in the name of ‘saving the children’.  I don’t want to re-circle the barn on all the arguments that correctly point out that no new gun control law suggested by the Left would have prevented the Parkland massacre.

Ramirez_180219

I gave my views on a reasonable approach to preventing such shootings in ‘Stopping School Shooters’.  We know it works because it is successfully applied in Israel and at the schools to which the elites send their kids.  However, the peasant children can serve a far more useful role for the elites as pawns – to sacrifice in their schools, or parade for the press where they can influence the country’s neurochallenged, a new term to join ‘neurodiverse’, ‘neurotypical’, ‘neurodivergent’ … introduced by leftwing academicians (more here).

The only thing that I’ve heard which merits discussion and possible immediate implementation are the so-called Red Flag laws.  Five states have these which allow a family member, who is almost always aware of a developing situation, to alert authorities who can then temporarily but immediately remove access to guns by the disturbed individual.  The removal of the guns is not permanent, and their return depends on how the case is subsequently diagnosed and adjudicated.  Bottom line, it is those close to the individual who can nip a developing situation in the bud, and thereby prevent a suicide or a tragic shooting like in Parkland.


California’s crazy and crazier gun laws are Exhibit A in all this, especially as it applies to the constructive prohibition of ‘assault rifles’, specifically the AR-15 variants.  Never mind that this gun is rarely used by criminals, and that ‘gun violence’ has been decreasing over the last 25 years.  Our state’s continuing path toward confiscation will have as much impact on the Parkland type shootings as its climate change laws have on global warming.

The answer, as most students of the contemporary American scene know, lies in the disintegration of what used to be our common culture.  NY Post columnist Arnold Ahlert collects these thoughts in his ‘It’s the Culture, Not the Guns’.  There he makes the case that “Leftists want to restrict the entire conversation to gun control. But their destruction of culture is the culprit.”

In the final analysis, the cost of living free means living with risks.  And removing risks inevitably redeems our liberties, which itself is useful for powering elitist agendas.  Everything has a price, which includes returning to tyrannical autocracies like the many states of the 20th century, today survived by North Korea, Cuba, China, Vietnam, … and now joined by Russia and Venezuela.  The gun control issue, along with several others (e.g. federally funded abortion, free speech, religion and state, …), was and always will be about the new world order under control of the elites. 

[21feb18 update]  Subsequent to my comment on the role of par force in a free society, the comment stream below took up the thread and expanded on it, but so far without much profit from examining it in a reasonable manner.  I responded with the following which I now post here as a needed update to the above commentary.

Sadly none of the Left have read my piece on par force, let alone understand its main tenet. All the above horseshit about grenades and tanks and private armies attests to that. The function of civilians possessing par force with the local constabulary is that the state cannot quickly snuff out or shut down legitimate protest against the rogue/illegal behavior of state agents/agencies (in the well-practiced manner of totalitarian countries). That people so aggrieved have the means to gather, hold off authorities long enough for the word to get out to other citizens across the land who then decide to join the resistance, or demur and let the initially aggrieved be taken by the state’s eventual superior force and face the full consequences of their ill-advised (or ill-timed) opposition. Without such available par force, there is no chance of such penultimate resistance. This has been demonstrated time and again during the last two centuries.

The last beneficial use of par force was the recent Bundy ranch standoff. It brought (and continues to bring) attention to an aspect of government overreach that would have been buried in the courts had not the Bundy family and their many compatriots (some travelling hundreds of miles to join them with their arms) been willing to risk their lives to draw attention to what they believed was rank injustice. A free people should always have the means to exercise their will through par force when they feel the established legal avenues no longer work. A nation of disarmed sheeple no longer have that option, for they have become the herded and compliant livestock of the state.

And here is what a reasoned, researched, and referenced response looks like in this debate written by Ignatius Piazza, head of Front Sight, a well-known firearms training firm – Download FrontSight.  The Left is invited to submit their best equivalent – I will post it here.

Posted in , , , , ,

456 responses to “Gun Confiscation – again on the march (updated 21feb18)”

  1. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    The kids are being kids and they are simply ignorant of the history of the planet and its inhabitants regarding force. Democrats feast on this ignorance and are in charge of these young brains in Tallahassee.

    Like

  2. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Walt
    Thinking back on the teachers I had in High School I have a hard time imagining them being capable or having the desire to carry guns.

    Like

  3. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Walt
    Could you provide a link to your 10:52

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  4. Walt Avatar

    Do some looking of your own for a change Paul. If you really care to find it, you can. Besides. You stated you don’t read links. So why should I bother?

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  5. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Walt
    Should someone who publicly advocates the shooting of a prominent politician be allowed to buy a gun?

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  6. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    Some background for the ignoranimuses (sic) out there…
    https://www.grandviewoutdoors.com/guns/ar-15/what-does-ar-15-stand-for/
    ArmaLite Rifle, the 15th design. The first was AR-1, the last was AR-18.
    Oh, and M-16 isn’t the military designation for the machine gun version; no dash, it’s just M16. That’s pretty much standard across US military designations.

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  7. Walt Avatar

    Take your meds Paul.

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  8. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Sorry if I’m hitting a little close to home Walt.

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  9. Walt Avatar

    Your getting incoherent Paul.

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  10. Walt Avatar

    My Uncle was killed by a gun, I didn’t blame the gun.
    I had one friend kill another friend. It wasn’t the gun that was to blame.
    Making shit up in your head again Paul?

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  11. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Careful Walt. Your affection for buzzards is well known.

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  12. Walt Avatar

    Looking at the kids on TV who were “protesting”,, they are not all that “traumatized” as they are made out to be.
    Funny how they act when they don’t know they are being filmed.

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  13. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Walt
    Are you saying what the kids went through wasn’t a traumatizing situation?

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  14. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    “the slaughter of 17 children at a public school sure sounds like the dark ages to me.”
    That’s because you’re ignorant of history, Paul. Plucking one factoid out of millions to ‘prove’ something is seriously idiotic. Overall, the kids at the high school have it far better off than kids their age in 1100 AD. In those days most of them wouldn’t live that long.
    We’ve explained how the kids can be protected and you’ve indicated you’re not interested. You really only care about scoring political points and pissing people off you don’t like.
    And Paul still won’t tell us what else he has in mind re gun control. Last we heard he was advocating sending millions of citizens off to re-education camps. He said that was just a start. What comes next, Paul?

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  15. Walt Avatar

    Give it a rest Paul.
    I bet you read the link that you were not supposed to. You never speak of facts that go against your BS..

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  16. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Scott
    My idea is a good start. It involves serious screening and training for those in possession of certain types of guns and confiscation and reimbursement of guns from those that don’t qualify. those retaining those guns would have serious retributions if discovered. I say do this first and see if it helps.

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  17. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    That is what the NRA does. So you support them I see.

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  18. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Can you send me a link Todd to what you claim I support
    Thanks in advance.

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  19. Scenes Avatar
    Scenes

    re: PaulE @ 12:04PM
    “certain types of guns and confiscation and reimbursement of guns from those that don’t qualify”
    2nd amendment issues aside, I’m certainly willing to argue this from a purely practical standpoint, what would those ‘certain types of guns’ be? Please define what their abilities (as firearms) are.
    In terms of qualifications, who qualifies? Adults? People who pass a test? People who pass some sort of craziness diagnosis? People who aren’t young black males? Property owners?
    I’ll assume that you know how guns actually work for a moment or two (this is a reach, but I’ll go for it). Write a law for everybody that makes sense to you.
    Following that exercise, it would be great if you could actually argue for it instead of asking a thousand f’in gotcha questions. Act like an adult for once.

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  20. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    This is from your link Don. I asssume y ou agree with it
    “Both kids in the picture are not students here but actors that travel to various crisis when they happen,” wrote Benjamin Kelly, an aide to state Rep. Shawn Harrison (R) to a reporter.”

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  21. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    “I say do this first and see if it helps.”
    Well we know it won’t so then what?
    Look Paul, there isn’t going to be any serious ‘screening and training’, partly because training has absolutely nothing to do with the problem and we already have screening but it seems to be run by humans and it doesn’t always work. If you look at school shootings, it’s painfully obvious that some of the shooters aren’t very interested in following any kind of rule you might come up with. If they knew a trained, alert armed guard would greet them at the school with a hail of gunfire, the school shootings would end.
    If I had an AR15 and some one told me to turn it in or spend goodness knows how long at some sort of ‘screening and training’ program, I would suggest they go away.
    You will simply lose control over millions of AR15s and make it far cheaper and easier for loonies to obtain them. That’s how the real world works.
    And since you don’t want armed protection for the kiddies we’re back to square one.
    As I pointed out – protection now or we re-visit this scene down the road. Your choice.

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  22. George Rebane Avatar

    In a discussion such as this, it is good to assess the relative cost of suffering an occasional massacre at the hands of a crazy person or zealot, to the loss of a country for decades and the loss of hundreds of thousands (millions?) of lives at the hands of a rogue government. A question for those who believe that rogue governments are no longer possible – how do we explain the Cubas, Venezuelas, North Koreas, Irans, Syrias, Zimbabwes, Lybias, …? Their shit smells, but ours doesn’t?

    Like

  23. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    Paul’s argument is:
    “It could be useful. You can’t prove it isn’t until you agree with me to give it a try”.
    A variation on “Mother, may I please have the gun I want to buy?” and mom, in states like California, would say “Go up to your room and No Soup for You!”.
    If you want, I’ll meet you half-way… how about making NFA purchases in California dependent upon passing this training? Make the M16 legal to own for civilians in California able to pass? That doesn’t take away rights currently held, and brings California into the majority of states that allow NFA weapons (including machine guns and silencers) to be owned by the unwashed masses in accordance with Federal law.

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  24. Scenes Avatar
    Scenes

    re: Gregory@12:26PM
    Wasted air. I strongly suspect that he doesn’t know what ‘NFA’ means.

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  25. Walt Avatar

    Paul. It’s pretty much illegal to own a gun in Mexico.. Care to tell us how well that’s working out?
    I await the crickets.(and subject change)

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  26. Scenes Avatar
    Scenes

    re: GeorgeR@12:25PM
    Another waste of time. There’s a fourchan ‘smuggie’ cartoon that pretty much sums it up.
    https://i.redd.it/d8fgxqende501.jpg

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  27. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    So George are you saying that the 17 lives lost in Florida are acceptable costs of freedom?

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  28. Walt Avatar

    OK, Paul, you want the AR15 banned. That’s the rally call. Fine. Now no moving the goal post.
    By your shrinking gray matter line of thought, my AR10 is fine, and good to go.
    What’s the diff? You go figure it out.

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  29. Walt Avatar

    Paul. Your legalized dope, is an acceptable loss of brain cells. Right?

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  30. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Pauyl Emery said this “My idea is a good start. It involves serious screening and training for those in possession of certain types of guns and confiscation and reimbursement of guns from those that don’t qualify. those retaining those guns would have serious retributions if discovered. I say do this first and see if it helps. ”
    I said then since this is what the NRA does you must be in support of them. Get it Paul?

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  31. Walt Avatar

    Speaking of numbers, More that Paul’s numbers was killed in Chicago over the weekend.(gun free city)

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  32. Bill Tozer Avatar

    Paul, your solution is for those who legally own/purchased a firearm. What about those who possess stolen guns, illegal weapons (like machine guns being sold on the black market in Australia), or those that buy guns from the criminal element smuggling in weapons via our porous border? Without warrants, LE can’t just go around kicking down doors in the barrios and ghettos of NYC, East LA, Chicago, Baltimore, the 9th Ward, or even Nevada City….looking to confiscate guns that may or may not be on the premises.
    That Sandy Hook killer is a good example. His Mom owned the gun lawfully. She was trained in the use of the weapon. Mom even took her son to the range so he would know how to shoot, learn all about gun safety, proper handling and respect of the firearm. She was not crazy, albeit many caring mothers have a blind spot when it comes to their baby boys. just as I do when it comes to my baby girls, but I digress.
    Nothing in you proposal would have changed anything’s the Sandy Hook. The boy took Mom’s firearm and shot her in the face. That just got him warmed up…… You say mental health professions should decide who is crazy and who ain’t, but I say there is a reason they call it “practicing medicine.” Sure, the low hanging fruit (certified wack jobs) are easy to pick from a mile away, and if it makes you feel safer and lyou just got to got to got to got to do something, by all means do something about the real crazies. Would not have stopped Vegas.
    We are dealing with a right here. It’s not like getting a driver’s license with an ID required, pass a written test, take the driving (road) test, and fork over some mula.
    Drivers’ licenses are privileges, not a right. Opps, strike that. Heck,right now it is harder to get a gun and a lot more paperwork and background checks to exercise a right than is to receive the privilege of having a driver’s license. For those who won’t play along, just call them “undocumented gun owners”. There are a lot of undocumented gun owners out there. Time to kick down doors of gang members and poor old grandmas to get those guns off the streets? That is racist, profiling, and not who were are. The ACLU would have a conniption fit, a real spaz attack.
    https://www.facebook.com/lastamericapatriots/photos/a.235087906641439.1073741826.235086849974878/969568389860050/?type=3&theater

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  33. Walt Avatar

    Paul… As for your “idea”,, it’s right up there with Hitler’s.
    Enjoy the company.

    Like

  34. Scenes Avatar
    Scenes

    “So George are you saying that the 17 lives lost in Florida are acceptable costs of freedom?”
    Not speaking for GeorgeR. Absolutely.
    However, there’s no guarantee that your side won’t win. Quite the contrary.
    “It doesn’t really matter what one writes into a constitution. The important thing is what the collective instinct eventually makes of it”
    -some German guy.

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  35. Walt Avatar

    Paul.
    ” Those who choose security over freedom deserve neither”.. Who said that?

    Like

  36. Scenes Avatar
    Scenes

    re: DonBessee a while back
    “Hey check out the latest and bestest form of virtue signaling-
    https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/nicholas-fondacaro/2018/02/20/nbc-glorifies-gun-owners-destroying-their-weapons-social

    As I mentioned before, 4chan has decided to post pictures of disassembled rifles + hammers/power tools/saws to show how they ‘destroyed’ them.
    lol. There’s now a whole bunch of pictures of taken-apart guns with the proper somber wording (plus the hammer/power tool/saw) on that twitter feed. Too funny.

    Like

  37. Bill Tozer Avatar

    How dare they play politics with people’s lives.
    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1729063963783738&set=a.101869619836522.4282.100000404535424&type=3&theater
    Let’s look at Australia again. A third turned in their guns. That means 2/3 became criminals (former law abiding citizens) with the stroke of a pen. I did have to laugh when enterprising folks took their broken guns and guns they bought on the cheap on the street corner and turned them in for a profit, lol. “That one kept jamming away.”

    Like

  38. jon smith Avatar
    jon smith

    Scenes – Overlay your chart of Australian homocides with Australia’s population boom and I think it is rather remarkable that their per capita murder rate has fallen as it has in such a short order.
    MAGA – I believe there are many compelling reasons to own firearms, and many not-so compelling arguments. When I hear about defending ourselves from “Agenda 21” or the “Deep State”, I can only roll my eyes and wonder at the bunker builders who built up their cache to save America from Y2K and Jade Helm. I don’t have much patience for conspiracy theorists be they hard right or hard left wing nuts.
    When over 13,000 Americans are killed and over 27,000 maimed by guns annually, it is hard to say we are on the right track.

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  39. Bill Tozer Avatar

    Teenagers should not have guns!!…but we should let them set gun policy.
    https://patriotpost.us/articles/54296-leftists-use-teens-as-pawns-for-gun-control
    Geeze, adults acted the same way when Trump stood on Hillary’s squawkbox on Nov 9, 2016.

    Like

  40. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    “So George are you saying that the 17 lives lost in Florida are acceptable costs of freedom?”- Punchy
    Paul, I ain’t George, but the first day the perpetrator confessed and is on his way to paying for the crime.
    William Wallace was drawn and quartered. Other cruel and unusual punishments from the past include being burned alive, and the breaking wheel. We don’t do that to criminals in the US today.

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  41. Walt Avatar

    Have you turned in yours yet jon?

    Like

  42. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 1248pm – given the trade-off, my answer is absolutely YES. And as another commenter pointed out, the Left has absolutely no concern for an average weekend’s carnage in Democrat created and run urban ghettos across the land. When the occasional white-on-white tragedy is perpetrated, then all of you rush out to push for another ineffective ratcheting of gun laws leading to total confiscation.
    “…at a moment when the national homicide rate has fallen to about four killings per 100,000 people every year, young black men are murdered at upwards of 500 for every 100,000; add in nonfatal gunshots, and it’s closer to 3,000 for every 100,000: about one in 30 shot every year.” And not one of you gives a crap.

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  43. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    GeorgeR good points. When whitey is killing whitey the left goes berserk. When black kills black, crickets. So if one extrapolates that out, it means the lefty libs, mostly whites, are racists, right?

    Like

  44. Scenes Avatar
    Scenes

    “Scenes – Overlay your chart of Australian homocides with Australia’s population boom and I think it is rather remarkable that their per capita murder rate has fallen as it has in such a short order.”
    You are not seeing the really interesting thing. It has dropped at about the same rate as it has in both Canada and the US. (hopefully these links all work). A person would have to correct for the differing slopes of the lines to really learn anything
    https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-YAbYGHLGmVk/VmjRhjVkbqI/AAAAAAAAJEs/LotNGzXZO5Q/s1600/canada1.jpg
    https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Wch1iM2hiJ8/Uh_aTo_r8aI/AAAAAAAAG9k/KsgoGyZOVJQ/s1600/Screen+Shot+2013-08-29+at++Thursday,+August+29,+7.32+PM+1.png
    http://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2013/05/SDT-2013-05-gun-crime-1-2.png
    Pro gun-ban people are always eager to see faces in clouds. Any kind of strict analysis of all this most likely doesn’t lead to the causalities you are really seeking.
    My own guess is that you are seeing improvements in trauma care, but I’m not sure of that.
    The amusing thing about the statistics of homicide is that if you simply were after results, not fairness or Constitutional rights, you simply wouldn’t allow black Americans to own guns. Assuming that gun legality = homicide rate, we’d instantly be within the European envelope of homicide rates. Does that sound like a good idea?

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  45. Scenes Avatar
    Scenes

    Here’s a per-capita rate for australia. I’m not sure at all what it really shows. (apologies if I’ve posted this before).
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c6/Gun_Deaths_by_Year%2C_Australia%2C_America.pdf/page1-1200px-Gun_Deaths_by_Year%2C_Australia%2C_America.pdf.jpg
    An alternative theory to the large drop in homicide rate in the US, aside from improved trauma care, might be mass incarceration. I strongly expect that rounding up populations who are likely to murder probably leads to lower murder rates. I’ll hunt around for a chart that shows both.

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