Rebane's Ruminations
January 2018
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George Rebane

No matter what he actually said in that White House meeting on immigration policy, President Trump has again focused a policy discussion on a crux of the matter instead of continuing the same ol’ same ol’ circling of the barn.  I don’t want to debate whether he actually said “shithole country” as the press is attributing, but I hope he did if it gets us off the dime in deciding who should be let in to serve America’s interests as a sovereign and sustainable nation-state.

Because this is a family-oriented blog (hah!), and in the ensuing discussion we will want to continue using that colorful descriptor without gratuitously sprinkling dirty words all over these pages, I will use the three-letter acronym SHC in the sequel for both expedience and, perhaps, collateral decorum.  Nevertheless, the meaning of that appellation will be made and should remain clear.

Instead of working on a more polished commentary, I decided to quickly anchor my contribution to the topic in a structured list of propositions that I believe are also embraced more or less by other conservetarians.  If they are also Bayesians like me, then their beliefs of the following will range from near zero (impossible) to near unity (certain), and in the process never saying never for either extreme.

Before sallying forth, what Trump really meant to say instead of SHC is ‘third world country’ as pointed out by a reader under the recent ‘Scattershots’, who also provided a link to the UN’s list of third world countries (here).  However, on closer inspection ‘third world country’ does not quite capture the more specific and richer concept of a SHC since not all third world countries are SHCs and some, even European, second world countries (e.g. Belarus and Albania) are SHCs.  Onward to the propositions in no particular order –

  1. No broadly based social benefits can be maintained by a nation without strong economic growth.
  2. Low or stagnant economic growth leads to unrest and authoritarian cum tyrannical governance (always instigated ‘for the common good’).
  3. While case-by-case implementation of public policies is desirable, no country has the resources to sustainably provide that. Therefore, laws regulations, codes are crafted and enforced on the basis of aggregate descriptors of the governed cohorts.
  4. There is no historical evidence that desirable and transplantable social orders can survive within stagnant economies (i.e. such benevolent stasisms are popular in fairy tales and myths).
  5. America was founded primarily on the extension and spread of western culture. When formerly we welcomed immigrants, it was understood that the arriving “wretched refuse” departed from the “teeming shores” of Europe.  No one then wanted to throw open our doors to Asians, Africans, Latinos, or even the swarthy people of the Mideast and Arab countries.
    • Therefore, race (i.e. physical appearance) was the easy aggregate descriptor used to define and expediently sort out the desirables from the undesirables.
  6. Sentient life (i.e. critters that can remember and form pictures of likely futures) exhibits Bayesian behaviors. They decide things on the basis of prior experience (personal and learned knowledge) and aggregated evidence (e.g. in the form of summarizations and/or learned stereotypes).
  7. Individual freedoms within a cohort or community are always a tradeoff within some acceptable level of security, given the level of perceived danger. Corollary – freedom and security are zero-sum benefits within a social order.
  8. A culture is identifiable as a collection of beliefs and behavioral norms held dear and valued by a given population. Beliefs include a common ontology and shared view of the past (history).  Behaviors include language, dress, social practices (commercial, familial, entertainment, …).  The overarching purpose is to live in a selectively supportive society that allows members to reliably predict each other’s behaviors.  Different cultures have adopted different tradeoffs between individual freedoms and social security.  Cultures should be viewed as implementations of collectively held social insurance for a secure and predictable future, whose premiums paid by the beneficiaries are the publicly visible cultural norms they practice.
  9. SHCs are countries that inhabit the repressive, ignorant, stagnant, and economically poor end of the spectrum of nations. Most SHCs can be found among what are commonly identified as third world countries, with some seen as second world countries.
  10. People tend to help the poor and needy, not so much with the expectation to eliminate poverty and need, but to confirm ourselves as participating members of a benevolent social order that will also nurture us should our fortunes fail. In short, more of that social security insurance.
  11. Nature abhors universal definitions of ‘good’ (i.e. utility). All utilities (measures of ‘good’) are in some fashion localized, and the more localized, the more achievable.  In the natural order, local achievements network naturally to create greater and mutually supportive communities of commonly held good (i.e. supporting the increase of a more comprehensive utility).
  12. Enforced multi-culturalism does not work. Peaceful cultures compete and naturally evolve through mutually beneficial intercourse.  In war stronger cultures destroy, deform, and/or disperse weaker cultures.
  13. No successful country has ever intentionally attracted or established lasting counter-cultures within its domain. Successful immigration has always involved importation of industrious and assimilating foreigners.  (Possible exception: Peter the Great inviting Germans to bring west European culture to the Russian countryside, develop commerce, and manage agricultural estates.  However, the norm is more like the attitudes Mexico, Switzerland, and Saudi Arabia have toward immigration.)
  14. Humans, individually and as members of established groups, are measurably different. In short, we can forensically identify unique individuals and groups.
  15. A litmus test for SHC qualification is that its citizens overwhelmingly want to emigrate.

[13jan18 update]  Not much on immigration debate has come from the Left, and that specifically includes the local Left as witnessed by the comment stream below.  Now one of their leading lights – our political cartoonist RL Bob Crabb – has entered the fray with his contribution.  In other more measured offerings Mr Crabb laments on the polarization and quality of debate in the land, seeking always to promote himself as the voice of bipartisan and dispassionate reason astride the mindless froth that issues from both sides of the proverbial road.  I suppose in his tally, offerings like the one below are not included. Another commenting reader in an exuberant expression of joyous approval of Mr Crabb has appended “Nailed it!!!”  Such is the nature of our national dialogue.

RLCrabb180113

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278 responses to “On Immigration and ‘S#!thole Countries’ (updated 13jan18)”

  1. Bill Tozer Avatar

    “And crime abated with the reduced human traffic from Juarez, considered one of the most dangerous places in the world due to drug-cartel violence, helping El Paso become one of the safest large cities in America.”
    https://nypost.com/2018/01/13/we-already-have-a-border-wall-and-it-works/
    Sure, it won’t stop all the crossing, which is why we need to move quickly to refor out visa policy….and cargo entering our ports. Won’t work if we don’t try.

    Like

  2. Walt Avatar

    OH yes… Paul Another one you failed to answer. (I REALLY hate repeating myself… but I know how it is with the “older” folks)
    Since it’s your contention “there are no sh*thole counties”,
    then you should have no gripe in sending illegals back to their respective “heaven on Earth”.

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  3. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Walt you don’t have a clue. The so called “illegals” you are talking about were brought here as children and have never lived anywhere else. Most are productive members of society and have jobs and go to school. you are heartless and cold to dump them off in a place they’ve never lived for what purpose? I don’t know anyone like you so there you have it.

    Like

  4. Scenes Avatar
    Scenes

    I was considering this article on the ways that the DACA database could be used:
    https://www.theringer.com/tech/2017/9/7/16268068/daca-database-trump
    and it occurred to me that it would be brilliant to start with that database, find those peoples’ older relatives (parents, especially) and, Bob’s yer uncle, you get a nice tidy list of households for ICE to visit.
    DACA is interesting. Everyone in that category is either an honor student who was brought into the US as an infant, or was a 16 year old ‘immigrant’ with two felony convictions.

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  5. Walt Avatar

    Your the one who doesn’t get it. We have front row seats.
    It happened to my wife’s Brother. He managed just fine.
    Care to try again? Illegal is illegal. Life ain’t fair. Show me where the law of fairness for all is written.

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  6. Don Bessee Avatar
    Don Bessee

    I would be willing to bet the @ 935 was just a base pander for drinks to patrons in whatever ale house the po’ ol’ faknewsman is in. 😉

    Like

  7. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Walt you would take a 19-year-old with a job going to college and send them back to a Country they left when they were two years old and have never return to and have no friends or relatives You would do that right Walt

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  8. Don Bessee Avatar
    Don Bessee

    You need to actually look at the real demographics. How many drinks did that get ya? Here is a midnight snack-
    http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2018/01/16/dhs-doj-more-than-70-percent-of-terror-related-convicts-in-u-s-are-foreign-born/
    😉

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  9. Bill Tozer Avatar

    DACA us interesting. First and foremost, the program is unconstitutional. The Dream Act failed to pass Congress and Obama cannot make laws out of thin air, which is why Trump gave Congress 6 months to create a law he can sign and enforce.
    .DACA rules say you must remain in the US, cannot have left the US since coming here, and meet certain age and time frames. Must have been brought here between 2007 and 2011, 16 years old and younger. So a 15 year old arrival never knew his/her country?. That’s a good one. So, let’s say the DACA honor student is now 20 years old. The poor soul only spent 3/4 of his/her life living in their country of birth.
    One DACA punk decided he was going to visit Mexico. Upon return, he was deported. Big stink. Broke the rules, outta here. Then they caught the same law breaker climbing back over the wall, lol. Dumb 19 year old piece of grunt thinks he can do want anything he wants to do with no consequences. Wrong. Deported twice now, and cannot visit or get even a tourist visa to visit Disney World for then next ten years.
    We must not reward bad behavior. Any DACA joining a gang gets you booted from our sacred soil as well. Good. They found dozens of DACA gang members who broke their agreements. Adios. Now we know where the pieces of grunt gangbangers’s parents, cousins, uncles, and the whole criminal family lives.. They will soon join their sons for a nice family reunification in Honduras, Mexico, and Guatemala, Cry me a river. Green cards are not citizenship cards.

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  10. fish Avatar
    fish

    IMPLEMENT CRAZY CAT LADY PROTOCOL IN…..3…..2….1!

    Walt you don’t have a clue. The so called “illegals” you are talking about were brought here as children and have never lived anywhere else. Most are productive members of society and have jobs and go to school. you are heartless and cold to dump them off in a place they’ve never lived for what purpose? I don’t know anyone like you so there you have it.

    Nice nod to Pauline Kael at the end as well Punch!

    Like

  11. Scenes Avatar
    Scenes

    re: BillT @ 12:54
    I was considering what a ‘clean’ DACA bill would look like, that is, one that isn’t connected to highway funding for a particular senator or a government funding shutdown.
    Since you get more of anything that is rewarded, a simple amnesty is probably not such a great plan. There are roughly a million of these ‘children’, and you can imagine the result if smuggling your offspring into the US resulted in citizenship. They’d probably start using trebuchets to fling kids over the wall.
    OTOH, I do see the problem of the honors student who-wants-to-be-an-astronaut who was whisked into the US at age 3.
    Perhaps something along these lines.
    . Blanket amnesty if you can prove you qualify.
    . Some list of felony convictions. Deport.
    . Never has a right to vote (dissuades Democrats from flinging in kids).
    . Never has a right to indulge in chain migration (dissuades ethnic activists or parents from flinging in kids).
    . All illegal alien relatives of the DACA kidz are still fair game for deportation.
    Just check out DAPA if you want to see what Mr. Obama really had in mind.
    Interestingly, the result of all this ‘diversity’ is a lack of diversity as practically the entire list of people is from the same place.
    Without thinking about it too much, I’d say that the primary legislative goal in all of this immigration law (or executive fiat) fuss is chain migration and the removal thereof. Everything else is a sideshow. Not only is the great majority of migration due to chain migration, but it distorts the entire rationale for attempting to change country of residence.

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  12. Scenes Avatar
    Scenes

    re: Me@7:09AM
    By ‘amnesty’, I mean something akin to a retirement visa in other countries, minus the income and work restrictions. You are never considered a US citizen and must keep your paperwork up to date.
    One more thing I’ll add is that the holder of this new ‘DACA’ visa has to get cleaned up paperwork with their country of origin. No doubt Mexico is just as happy to forget these people ever existed.

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  13. Bill Tozer Avatar

    Scenes.
    I, too, think a clean bill is the only way to go. It is important that the program ends and not renewed and no moving the goal posts to those who came here after 201I. As written, there is no verifiable documentation required for the DACA applicants to prove their ages or dates they were brought in, or even country of origin. That is why we have DACA “children” that are 36 years old, 24 year olds in high school, kids with full blown 5 o’clock shadow in in grammar school. The whole applicantion form is a total honor system. “Yep, I was 15 when I was brought here in 2010.” Rightttttt.
    Besides the abuses which may or may not of any sufficient percentage, its the chain migration that is the stickler. Once granted residency to the DACA student who reaches 18 years old, he can bring in his family, cousins, uncles and their families until whole village is allowed in…legally. Toss vetting out the window. Toss bringing in the best and brightest out the window . Toss bringing in those who have the best chance of flourishing here by making it here through productivity and achieving a wonderful life pursing their dreams…..toss all that out the window.
    Instead bring in lazy Uncle Jim’ and his extended family with his unemployable adult children, as well as cousin Dave the sheep jumper with his Greek niece the stork left at the doorstep.
    First and foremost, Congress needs to write a DACA bill. We cannot have an unconstitutional policy being equated to the rule of law. They are not called law makers for nuthin. 6 Senators (3 Dems, 3 R’s) do not constitute 550 voting members of Congress, nor elected 100 Senators nor 450 members of the House. 6 Senators running to Trump claiming they have a deal is total bull pucky.
    Right now immigration reform i is DOA this week….until a clean bill is passed. Tacking it on a spending bill in a big rush is BS. A clean bill that includes a wall, ending chain migration, knowing exactly who is coming coming into our country, DACA provisions for Punchy’s two year old girl whose parents snuck in here and we don’t even know who or where the parents are……or even their names or background history….a clean bill. That is what February is for….maybe March.
    The Supreme Court has already blocked the Dream Act. DACA is just a new name for the Dream Act. Get the foundation right so the house does not fall over when the wind changes.

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  14. Walt Avatar

    OK Paul’s house is a sanctuary site. I know a few I can send your way Paul. They will be yours to feed and house. Lets see how fast that bleeding heart drys up.

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  15. Bill Tozer Avatar

    As it stands right now, Lille Dickie Durbin and Lindsey Graham’s life long Dream is just another big amnesty plan hiding behind “the children.” Same with unaccompanied minors. Their parents did not bring them here, but we won’t talk about that……
    Correction from above. We have DACA children here who are now 40 years old, lol.

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  16. George Rebane Avatar

    re BillT 1231pm – In discussing reliable news sources with Bro PaulE, Breitbart was dismissed out of hand. Does that mean that the report cited by Mr Tozer’s Breitbart link needs to be dismissed as fake news?

    Like

  17. Bill Tozer Avatar

    For every high school DACA valedictorian that was brought over here at no fault of her own when she was just two years old (and this is the only country she has ever known), I can match that one standout with ten of these all day long.
    https://www.facebook.com/RowdyConservatives/photos/a.217983685002343.55586.217926015008110/1239750819492286/?type=3&theater
    Name 5, I will name 50. Just because someone is a DACA, does not mean they are all the same. You know, broad brush stuff the Lefties say is soooo wrong. I agree.
    Want to talk about those mean little pukes with a bad F YOU attitude to all authority have been placed in junivelle hall since they were 14 awaiting transfer to the regular jailhouse when they turn 18? Them are some of the poor sweet unaccompanied minors. How much do a ten, twenty thousand of them cost us each year for the pleasure of feeling good about ourselves.
    Want to talk about percentages of inmates in our Federal prisons that are illegal aliens? Our CA State Prisons? What to discuss the dates and ages of the felony offenders when they committed their crimes or just conviction dates and years? Yes, not all are DACAs or little toddlers who become the high school valedictorian and excelled at Cal.

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  18. George Rebane Avatar

    BillT 613pm – Excellent Mr Tozer. For an expanded consideration of such arguments and factors, please read ‘Truth Decay’.
    http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2018/01/truth-decay.html

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  19. Bill Tozer Avatar

    Good Doc.
    I thought about posting it there, but I figured it was too inflammatory and did not want to turn the excellent and provocative Truth Decay post into another Sh*thole Country Immigration food fight, part 2. Hey, I stayed on topic under the proper heading. L I intended to bury i my comment here. Soon this post with 270 comments will be so low on the list you can’t even find it. Over and out. See ya on Tooth Decay. American girls are known for flossing, FYI.

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  20. George Rebane Avatar

    re Scenes 745am – According to my lights, I would very carefully vet would be immigrants from countries that need foreign aid workers to teach their citizens how to dig latrines and wells so as to enable them to live without soiling their nests and enjoy better health.

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  21. Don Bessee Avatar
    Don Bessee

    So we should let them vote??
    http://www.bbc.com/news/health-42732442
    😉

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  22. George Rebane Avatar

    DonB 1104pm – Good pick-up Mr Bessee. Yes ‘Infantilising young people’ is now both fashion and fact – the average marriage age of 32+ says it all. Our society has changed markedly over the last half century, and as lifespans have increased so has our tendency to coddle children longer. The college undergraduate of today is a psychological basketcase compared to 50 years ago. It all derives from how they have been “carefully taught”.
    Vote? We used to set the voting age based on maturity. If we do that today, then we’d set suffrage at 25 at least. But the Left wants it lowered to get more of the pre-educated and compliant on to the voting rolls for obvious reasons. All part and parcel of the evidence that we are beyond the tipping point.

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