Rebane's Ruminations
October 2017
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George Rebane

With the Las Vegas massacre still fresh in the news, and memories of previous such shootings indelibly burned into our collective memories, the ongoing debate in these pages about preventing children from accidentally shooting themselves or others assumes a heightened focus and an inevitably extended scope.  We are all standing by for the new spate of progressive platitudes and proposed proscriptions of the lawful ownership and possession of guns guaranteed by the Second Amendment.  This guarantee is not recognized by many of our newly educated citizens, most leftwing politicians, and all lamestream journalists.  But the only guarantee we have is that when the dust of the latest tragedy settles, and it will settle, this next chapter of the debate will leave us more separated than ever – the Great Divide ratchet turneth.

So, back to preventing accidental gun deaths.  I wonder what would happen to current statistics if children were taught about gun safety in kindergarten and/or first grade.  Today concerned parents have no hope of denying their child’s knowledge of the existence and, yes, the romance of guns since the world’s cultures glorify their existence as objects of power, adventure, status, justice, crime, coming of age, … .  Today all of this is drummed into the heads of the little darlins through immensely popular and engaging shoot-‘em-up computer games, realistic movies, and TV/online videos available 24/7 on the youngsters’ phones and pads.  And the more such parents attempt to keep children from having early ‘gun experiences’, the more attractive guns become to kids as the forbidden fruit that when serendipitously discovered, must immediately be handled, explored, surreptitiously shared, etc.

As a youngster (and child war veteran) in 1950s middle America, I was as interested in guns as were any of my friends.  In those days fathers (mine included) put guns into the hands of their sons (and many daughters) when they were, by today’s standards, very young.  I got my Red Ryder Daisy BB gun when ten, and my first 22 mag-fed bolt action rifle when thirteen.  (One of my grandsons now has it.)  I taught my children and grandchildren about guns and gun safety before they were five, and to shoot before they were eight.

Before the age of political correctness it was rare to hear of a youngster tragically discharging a found firearm.  Although kids did have their share of hunting accidents when improperly handling their firearms.  But then such accidents were not political or politicized events, no one became hysterical as a result and started militating for some new draconian laws or regulations that proscribed or constructively denied the then legal ownership and disposition of guns.  Overall, these were viewed as childhood accidents similar to when a kid seriously injured himself on a swing or other playground equipment, or riding his bicycle, swimming, climbing trees, or … .  These were simply tragic accidents the solution to which was more/better safety training.  We recognized that life lived to the fullest has inherent dangers, and their attempted eradication would also eliminate other unintended desiderata that contributed to our quality of life – in sum, the overzealous quest for safety itself has a price, as we see all around us today.

Are we really a better society as a result of fifty years of social histrionics wherein we have sought to impress each other with our social consciousness and caring that today mandates almost everything that we do, say, or think.  How many mass shootings did we have when young people knew more about guns and had easier access to them?

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191 responses to “‘Gun Violence’, girding for the next chapter”

  1. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    George at 5:07 – Why be amazed? When has it been any different?
    Look at the Sandy Hook shootings. Folks and politicians ranted and raved about the need for new legislation to prevent such shootings and so they proceeded with their new laws that would have done absolutely nothing to prevent the Sandy Hook shootings.
    A looney can still walk into a grade school today and repeat the same sad scenario.
    A trained teacher with a loaded 9mm could probably stop or greatly minimize the tragedy but that is the wrong answer for the left. They would rather have more children die than admit the NRA is correct.
    Fun fact for today – how many shootings have happened in schools with the president’s kids in attendance?
    Remember – Obama said a school is no place for guns. ‘Cept of course his kids. Just not yours.

    Like

  2. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Scott
    I said that illegal immigrants have had little to do with mass shootings such as Sandy Hook or Vegas or Portland etc. Most, but not necessarily all are from white American citizens.

    Like

  3. Walt Avatar

    Come now Paul,, Your ignoring the fact that most mass shooters are LIBS.. You refuse to reconcile that. What is wrong with LIBS?
    And all you have is McVeigh? Let’s have it Ol’ boy….
    Why are LIBs pron to killing lots of people at one time?

    Like

  4. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    Paul, yes or no… mass shootings are a tiny fraction of gun homicides.
    Yes or no, Paul.
    The death toll in Vegas was equivalent to the average month just in the City of Chicago.

    Like

  5. Don Bessee Avatar
    Don Bessee

    Context matters ya po’ ol’ fakenewsman, especially where gang bangers are a key part of the FACTS @ 519. 😉

    Like

  6. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Who cares Gregory. Killing is killing and we are the most violent culture in the modern world.

    Like

  7. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: Paul Emery | 02 October 2017 at 05:31 PM
    (Y)ou live in your own little world Fish. Facts mean nothing to you if they are contrary to your predetermined opinion I have no interest in challenging that.

    Maybe…..but you know you’re over the target when Punch starts projecting that vigorously.

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  8. Walt Avatar

    Been to Mexico lately? Paul? Take a visit to the Middle East. How long would you keep your head after word got out a White guy was there? Ya.. Blame the white guy. Save the white guilt for yourself.
    Now why are LIBS mass killers? THIRD TIME……

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  9. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Show me the numbers Walt. It is your contention. I don’t necessarily believe it just because you say so. Also, What’s the connection to Vegas? Do you have information that he was a LIB?

    Like

  10. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    FAKE NEWS Paul, no the USA is not the most violent culture in the modern world. About 94th on a list of 219, even with Chicago, sorted by murder rates per 100,000.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

    Like

  11. Don Bessee Avatar
    Don Bessee

    Now you done it Gregory, you went and interjected facts into the druids rant. 😉

    Like

  12. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Mexico has more murders than the USA. Great stat chart!

    Like

  13. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Brazil has 55,000 murders, more than three times the USA. Hey Paul, that country has stringent gun laws. Why do they have more murders? And they are a fairly homogenous people, race wise.

    Like

  14. Don Bessee Avatar
    Don Bessee

    The po’ ol’ fakenewsman should have a conversation on this with Hayley Geftman-Gold, she has plenty of time on her hands now. 😉

    Like

  15. Walt Avatar

    OH… That ol’ Paul scamper. NOW you want numbers. Pick your mass shooter Paul,, YOUR the news guy,,,, remember?(guess not..)
    The POS that killed a school full of Amish girls? A Democrat.
    Sandy Hook.. A Dem trigger puller. Kathy Gifford. Care to guess?
    You just refuse to admit that LIBS are mass killers. It just won’t fit the Lefty narrative.

    Like

  16. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    I said Modern World Gregory. Wow oh Wow. There are 126 less violent countries in the world. That makes me proud. We are certainly more violent than any European or Modern Asian Country even North Korea.

    Like

  17. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Walt
    Ill give you a break. Since you contend that most mass gun killers are LIBS just list the top 20 and a source to justify your claim.

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  18. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    By the way Gregory the chart you cite is from the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime. Glad you accept the UN as a credible source. I’ll use their data in future posts with confidence you will respect the source.

    Like

  19. Walt Avatar

    If you had the sense GOD gave geese,(and the memory) You should know this.
    http://joeforamerica.com/2014/05/mass-murderers-democrats/
    Well, most of them anyway: Now you can add Elliot Rodger – the next in a long line of mass murderers with mass murder on their minds:
    THE LIST:
    – Nidal Hasan – Ft Hood Shooter: Reg­istered Democrat and Muslim.
    – Aaron Alexis, Navy Yard shooter – black liberal/Obama voter
    – Seung-Hui Cho – Virginia Tech shooter: Wrote hate mail to President Bush and to his staff, registered Democrat.
    – James Holmes – the “Dark Knight”/Colorado shooter: Registered Democrat, staff worker on the Obama campaign, #Occu­py guy,progressive liberal, hated Christians.
    – Amy Bishop, the rabid leftist, killed her colleagues in Alabama, Obama supporter.
    – Andrew J. Stack, flew plane into IRS building in Texas – Leftist Democrat
    – James J. Lee who was the “green activist”/ leftist took hostages at Discovery Channel – progressive liberal Democrat.
    – Jared Loughner, the Tucson shooter – Leftist, Marxist.
    dem mass murder– Ohio bomb plot derps were occupy Wall St leftists.
    – Harris and Klebold, the Columbine Shooters – families registered Democrats and progressive Leftists.
    – Bill Ayers, Weather Underground bomber – Leftist Democrat.
    – Lee Harvey Oswald, Socialist, Communist and Democrat – killed Kennedy…
    Why are no conservative NRA members involved in mass shootings?
    Do tell.
    WHY Paul WHY?????????

    Like

  20. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    “Since you contend that most mass gun killers are LIBS just list the top 20 and a source to justify your claim.”
    Ah – now Paul wants to have facts.
    Funny – when it was Paul spouting off he didn’t need facts. Then it was all just ‘spin’ and ‘finesse’.
    And of course, again we see Paul dodging the questions.
    Gee – what happened to Paul’s deep and abiding care for the ‘children’?
    Now we are on to a new spin. America as a ‘violent’ country.
    Actually Paul – if you take out a few large cities run by Dems and lefties, we really aren’t very violent at all compared to Europe.
    The facts are there – look them up yourself.

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  21. Walt Avatar

    OK Paul,,, it’s your turn. Name all 1300 children you “claim” have been murdered.

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  22. Walt Avatar

    Oh,, and who shot them, have they been prosecuted, where did the gun come from… Got it?

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  23. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    I had to look that name up – Hayley Geftman-Gold – wow.
    You may or may not believe what she later wrote: “My shameful comments do not reflect the beliefs of my former employer, colleagues, family, and friends. Nor do they reflect my actual beliefs…”
    Uh – so, who’s beliefs do they reflect? The aliens that beamed those thoughts into your porous skull?

    Like

  24. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    Oh – now Walt, you’ve been warned about spin and finesse. It’s only Paul that can demand facts. Paul has his opinion. All you have is reality.

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  25. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Weak response Walt. I mean you go all the way back to lee Oswald-60 years to make a list.
    How about the Portland Killer-“The Portland Mercury identified Christian as a fairly well-known white supremacist in the region with extreme right-wing views.”
    That’s keeping it contemporary-Oh yeah, he didn’t use a gun.

    Like

  26. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Bernie supports guns, but that is just a Vermont thing I reckon. Hillary put that out in the primary. Heard it myself on the ray-dee-o.
    Paul Eeeeeee!
    We have our share of a handful homegrown nutjobs that laws will not/cannot stop these types of killers. The nutjobs assassin who want gunning for Congressional Republicans practicing hard ball comes to mind. Yes, hardball, not softball. With that said, the real threat of open borders is it allows foreign nutjobs in to add to the mix. San Berdardino, the backyard of LA comes to mind. No thanks, we have enough.
    I remember when Pat Buchanan said years ago that if you remove black on black crime from the stats, the USA would have the fourth lowest homicide rate in the developed (Western) world. I thought for sure Pat would catch hell for that, but nobody could disagree, not even MSM. 13% of the population commits 53% of the murders (2007 stats). Crickets. We dare not go there. We MUST NOT go there.
    Ok, if it makes you feel better, one murder is one too many. Especially kids. Accidentally or on purpose, it’s one too many. But our laws still do not keep people from being killed by licensed drunk drivers….or licensed distracted drivers.

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  27. Walt Avatar

    White supremacists belong to DEMS Paul,, Haven’t figured that out yet?
    And OH BOY!!!! You found,,,,, ONE!! What part of the word “MOST” don’t you understand?
    Going to pull a Nancy Pelosi and claim victory? ( One no name seat save LIBS from a clean sweep)
    It’s time you took your 90 proof medication and call it a night.

    Like

  28. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    How about Sandy Hook and 20-year-old Adam Lanza. No political affilliations discovered-crazy kid with guns. I can go on and on.
    All for now. Let me know know when you compile a respectable list. And oh yeah, how about Stephen Paddock?

    Like

  29. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Are you saying The Portland Killer Christian was a LIP Walt? Unbelievable.

    Like

  30. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    SP LIB

    Like

  31. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    I don’t think NorKor counts deaths by starvation or executions, Paul, and in the modern world, we are where we are.
    But we’re also 50 states and DC.
    DC has a rate of 24.2
    Louisiana 10.3
    Mississippi 8.7
    Maryland 8.6
    Missouri 8.3
    South Carolina 8.2
    you get the idea.
    From the other end of the scale there’s New Hampshire at 1.1 (they don’t require licenses to carry concealed)
    Hawaii 1.3
    Vermont 1.6 (also no license to carry concealed)
    Maine 1.7
    Utah 1.8
    Idaho 1.9
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_in_the_United_States_by_state
    Now, which America are you talking about, Paul?

    Like

  32. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Speaking of Hillary putting thing out. I present Exhibit A, aka, full blown ignorance.
    https://www.facebook.com/RowdyConservatives/photos/a.217983685002343.55586.217926015008110/1176383789162323/?type=3&theater
    This is so wrong on so many levels, but I will stay with the facts.
    1) a silencer on a machine gun will not block the sound.
    2) The mass murderer fired so many shots that his hotel room filled with smoke and set the fire alarm off. That’ told LE where the shots were coming from, the room on the 32nd floor. If he used a silencer, the silencer would have burned up quick and added to the smoke, setting the alarm off sooner and perhaps saving some lives.
    That’s My Gal.

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  33. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    To be fair – Paul only cited an article that said that there are about 1300 children (1-17) that are killed by fire arms use annually. Only a bit over 1/2 (53%) are murders. Followed closely by suicide (38%) – the part of it Paul was going on about was the 6% unintentional deaths. Given that a lot of the ‘unintentional’ deaths were probably negligent homicide, the actual number of tykes picking up daddie’s gun and blowing away little sister (it happens) is extremely small. And given that as far as we know, in every case the owner of the gun was identified, it was just pure nonsense that Paul’s fix for reducing the 1300 a year number was making everyone register their gun. In fact, it would do nothing to reduce the numbers.

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  34. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    Paul asks for a list – Walt has over 10.
    Paul trumps that with one name. One. Claims he can go on and on. But doesn’t.
    One.
    Poor Walt thought he had Paul on this one.
    No siree, Bob.
    Paul has one.
    Just makes you wonder what goes on down there at KVMR in the news room.

    Like

  35. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Yo Paul Eeeeeeee!
    I plumb forgot. The National Security issue is we need to secure our borders so black market guns don’t get smuggled in. Gotta stop that noise, pronto.

    Like

  36. Walt Avatar

    Well Paul, you wanted proof, and I gave it. So you don’t like it?
    Well,, you can kiss my ass on the center line of Main St. at Noon.
    Now you want to pick nits. The guy with the dreadlocks is waiting right over there.
    Maybe you didn’t read about the killer of Pres. Lincoln. He was a Dem too.
    Since your HARD OF READING!!,,I WILL SPELL LOUDER!! AND THERE IS A VIDEO OUT OF THE BASTARD AT AN ANTI TRUMP RALLY!!
    TAP ONCE FOR UNDERSTOOD.
    TAP TWICE,,, YOUR ON YOUR OWN.

    Like

  37. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Paul Emery has been savaged here by you fact check dudes. He sure does not like it.

    Like

  38. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 519pm – Actually the 1300 does not stand as an established fact to support the next round of gun laws when the last ones have neither worked nor been enforced. As other readers have pointed out above, the make up of who and how all those “children” were killed is very important when deciding public policy – except, of course, unless you are demogauging another agenda which requires that you attempt to hide it all under the biggest number you can muster.

    Like

  39. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    Emery?
    Emery?
    Emery?
    Emery?
    The murder rate in the US ranges from 24.2 (DC) to 1.1 (New Hampshire).
    DC would be #17 on the UN list
    New Hampshire would be #176
    Which America are you talking about?

    Like

  40. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    that was the United Nations list you were bragging about Gregory. What’s your problem?

    Like

  41. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    George
    I challenge you to click through this and not get sick to your stomach when you read the details.
    http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/child-injured-killed

    Like

  42. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    Bragging? No, just quoting.
    DC would be #17 on the UN list
    New Hampshire would be #176
    Which America are you talking about, Paul?

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  43. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    What Is the point of what you’re talking about GREGORY? Are you saying there is a vast differences in different parts of every country Sure I agree with you on that Again what’s the point what are you trying to say ?

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  44. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    And what are those differences, Paul? Why are New Hampshire and Vermont safer than DC despite DC having all those gun laws you think everyone should have (although the SCOTUS does seem to be on the verge of changing that)?

    Like

  45. Don Bessee Avatar
    Don Bessee

    Should we post links to car accidents videos ya po’ ol’ party parrot @ 1029 for impact on the leading cause? IF you really cared you would work against gang violence and against the leadership of Chicago, Detroit, NYC and all the other socialist DEM toilets. ;-(

    Like

  46. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: Gregory | 02 October 2017 at 10:57 PM
    I wouldn’t expect a response. There’s no answer he can give that isn’t a blasphemy within his faith.

    Like

  47. John Avatar
    John

    Paul Emery appears to have a remarkable mental condition that gives him the complete inability to comprehend facts that are not in line with his view of the world. He seems to genuinely not comprehend the discussion that he is involved in. I have never seen anything quite like this.

    Like

  48. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    As you might expect, the good folks at Daily Kos have got their knickers in quite a twist. Most are trying to out-F-bomb one another as some kind of inarticulate way of expressing their hatred for the groups they don’t seem to like.
    How big are those rooms at the Mandalay Bay? Supposedly it was a lone shooter, but the DK folks all agree there was the entire GOP and the NRA in there pulling the trigger.
    And of course, there are the various loud voices from the Dems calling for “laws that will make sure this doesn’t happen again”.
    Well.
    I’ll hazard a guess that any such proposed law will really have no direct way of preventing another mass killing. But it will impinge on our civil rights and it will play out most heavily upon folks who have never and will never harm a soul.
    I’m not prone to quote Mr O’Reilly, but he does have the correct attitude that this incident is part of living in a free society.
    The number of folks that were killed is actually the same number of folks murdered in Chicago (on average) every month, month after month. Year after year.
    Just in Chicago.
    Yes, we have a problem in this country. But it is hardly unique to our country.
    We don’t solve problems with emotion and feelings. Sorry – it’s never happened even once. We clean up the mess, tend to the hurt and wounded and examine the crime scene.
    We apply logic and reason to the issue and go over what can be done within the framework of our type of govt.
    It could be that something like this will happen again. It could be that the citizenry of our country will demand that their civil rights be violated so that they will ‘feel’ safer. It will be interesting to see how all of this plays out.

    Like

  49. George Rebane Avatar

    ScottO 815am – You don’t have to quote O’Reilly, he’s a late comer (e.g. viz RR) to the notion that such shootings (and many other means and methods of murder and mayhem) are the price of living in a free society, especially one whose sacrifices here guarantee the existence of other free societies. I’m aghast that this late in the history of communism there are still people among us (also commenting here) who cite North Korea as being a more peaceful and safe country than America. Here is a nation whose government routinely imprisons, tortures, and murders millions of its own citizens to stay in power and it is lauded because it makes the private possession of firearms a capital offense.

    Like

  50. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: Scott Obermuller | 03 October 2017 at 08:15 AM
    It will be interesting to see how all of this plays out.

    It will play out like this:
    1) At some point in the future the democrats will have control of the government
    2) An incident like Las Vegas will occur again.
    3) Cries for “We must do something” will be uttered across the land.
    4) Something will be done
    5) Progressives will swoon in an orgy of self congratulation
    6) Most Americans will ignore the new edicts to the best of their ability. Some will run afoul of the legal system
    7) As a practical matter the ability to commit large scale attacks like this will barely be effected at all

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