Rebane's Ruminations
October 2017
S M T W T F S
1234567
891011121314
15161718192021
22232425262728
293031  

ARCHIVES


OUR LINKS


YubaNet
White House Blog
Watts Up With That?
The Union
Sierra Thread
RL “Bob” Crabb
Barry Pruett Blog

George Rebane

With the Las Vegas massacre still fresh in the news, and memories of previous such shootings indelibly burned into our collective memories, the ongoing debate in these pages about preventing children from accidentally shooting themselves or others assumes a heightened focus and an inevitably extended scope.  We are all standing by for the new spate of progressive platitudes and proposed proscriptions of the lawful ownership and possession of guns guaranteed by the Second Amendment.  This guarantee is not recognized by many of our newly educated citizens, most leftwing politicians, and all lamestream journalists.  But the only guarantee we have is that when the dust of the latest tragedy settles, and it will settle, this next chapter of the debate will leave us more separated than ever – the Great Divide ratchet turneth.

So, back to preventing accidental gun deaths.  I wonder what would happen to current statistics if children were taught about gun safety in kindergarten and/or first grade.  Today concerned parents have no hope of denying their child’s knowledge of the existence and, yes, the romance of guns since the world’s cultures glorify their existence as objects of power, adventure, status, justice, crime, coming of age, … .  Today all of this is drummed into the heads of the little darlins through immensely popular and engaging shoot-‘em-up computer games, realistic movies, and TV/online videos available 24/7 on the youngsters’ phones and pads.  And the more such parents attempt to keep children from having early ‘gun experiences’, the more attractive guns become to kids as the forbidden fruit that when serendipitously discovered, must immediately be handled, explored, surreptitiously shared, etc.

As a youngster (and child war veteran) in 1950s middle America, I was as interested in guns as were any of my friends.  In those days fathers (mine included) put guns into the hands of their sons (and many daughters) when they were, by today’s standards, very young.  I got my Red Ryder Daisy BB gun when ten, and my first 22 mag-fed bolt action rifle when thirteen.  (One of my grandsons now has it.)  I taught my children and grandchildren about guns and gun safety before they were five, and to shoot before they were eight.

Before the age of political correctness it was rare to hear of a youngster tragically discharging a found firearm.  Although kids did have their share of hunting accidents when improperly handling their firearms.  But then such accidents were not political or politicized events, no one became hysterical as a result and started militating for some new draconian laws or regulations that proscribed or constructively denied the then legal ownership and disposition of guns.  Overall, these were viewed as childhood accidents similar to when a kid seriously injured himself on a swing or other playground equipment, or riding his bicycle, swimming, climbing trees, or … .  These were simply tragic accidents the solution to which was more/better safety training.  We recognized that life lived to the fullest has inherent dangers, and their attempted eradication would also eliminate other unintended desiderata that contributed to our quality of life – in sum, the overzealous quest for safety itself has a price, as we see all around us today.

Are we really a better society as a result of fifty years of social histrionics wherein we have sought to impress each other with our social consciousness and caring that today mandates almost everything that we do, say, or think.  How many mass shootings did we have when young people knew more about guns and had easier access to them?

Posted in , , , ,

191 responses to “‘Gun Violence’, girding for the next chapter”

  1. George Rebane Avatar

    Administrivia – the gun accidents/violence debate hereunder continues from the 29sep17 sandbox here –
    http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2017/09/sandbox-29sep17.html

    Like

  2. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    Now, who was it that was dead set against forcing people sending their kids to publicly funded schools to vaccinate their kids, or home school them if they refuse without there being a damned good medical reason for their child to opt out?
    Paul Emery.
    Now, having declared himself not an owner of an icky gun (or so he says), he wants folks that choose to exercise their 2nd Amendment rights to jump through hoops that do much much less to protect kids than vaccines do.

    Like

  3. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Just trying to raise awareness of the gun slaughter of American children Gregory. Sorry if that makes you feel uncomfortable.

    Like

  4. bunbun Avatar
    bunbun

    Shooter was from Mesquite just down the road from Cliven Bundy’s place…any connection?

    Like

  5. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: bunbun | 02 October 2017 at 02:06 PM
    Internet handle is “bunbun” and lives in reasonable proximity to a certain local spherical newsman………think about it!

    Like

  6. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    Just pointing out your hypocrisy, Paul, and I’m not sorry if that makes you uncomfortable.

    Like

  7. Walt Avatar

    No TROLLING here Dougbun,, save that for your other TROLL names on the other sites.
    The odds are better than not that is POS was a LIB. This is what crazed LIBS do.

    Like

  8. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    from Paul – “Sure it would save lives Scott. You are ignorant to say it won’t. What is the value of one childs life that could be saved by gun registration.=?”
    There’s two parts to this, Paul. The first is calling me ‘ignorant’ because I pointed out that you have provided no proof whatever to back up your claims. Why don’t you name the children whose lives would have been saved by your proposed law. Let’s keep in mind it’s already against the law for those kids to bring a gun to school and that law obviously doesn’t seem to do much good. And keep in mind that the folks with stolen guns aren’t going to register them. I brought up several reasons and facts about why your law will do no good and all you can do is call me ignorant. Pretty much par for the course with you lefties.
    As far as the value of a child’s life? I assume you mean the ones outside of the womb. Various hearings and trials have placed the value of a child’s life at an astoundingly varied dollar amount. Some are worth maybe 10 grand while another might be worth millions. Seems to depend on how deep the pockets are of the party having to pay.
    It is usually a matter of whether or not it is your child or some one you don’t even know. Seems to make a big difference.
    Of course the main problem here is the fact that Paul presents a false choice. We can reduce the amount of kids getting killed with guns by other means than simply trying to wave the magic wand of gun registration.

    Like

  9. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    “Just trying to raise awareness of the gun slaughter of American children Gregory.”
    You see? This is called virtue signalling. Paul wraps himself up in this flag of moral superiority and then shows up here with BS and believes he has no need to provide facts or reason or proof of anything other than his on-going self-aggrandizement by simply repeating over and over how ‘concerned’ he is about the ‘children’.

    Like

  10. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    Walt 212
    Please stop the bigotry… there’s no good reason to declare the shooter was a liberal. None. Just STFU and listen while the FBI does its job (let’s be thankful Comey isn’t involved).

    Like

  11. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Robert Cross | 02 October 2017 at 11:45 AM
    The last sandbox.
    No BobbieC, you are the BSer You make fake news every time you post. Making a pass through on my personal blog of someone else;s comment is not fake news. But you passing along complete lies you make up about others is. So you are an ISIS lover, and I feel bad for you. The FBI may not like that. Anyway, you are just a local skunk without any facts about anything. Go back into your rabbit hole and stay away.

    Like

  12. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Paul Emery why don’t you answer? Do you support the banning of DDT in Africa which has resulted in the deaths of millions of African children? Come on now, you can do it.

    Like

  13. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Scott
    Amazing that you attribute cash as the value of a child.
    Scott, guns are the second largest cause of accidental death for children second only to automobile accidents. That is established fact. In my opinion gun registration would help as would strict accountability for the gun owner if a child has access to guns in they own.
    Here’s an article to read from Forbes
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/tarahaelle/2017/06/19/american-denial-about-facts-on-guns-continues-to-kill-children/#15111cbd4a9a

    Like

  14. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    You are a total hypocrite Paul Emery. And you said you never had a child as well. So what do you know?

    Like

  15. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: Paul Emery | 02 October 2017 at 02:52 PM
    You’ll probably want to start lobbying your legislators Paul.

    Like

  16. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    “Amazing that you attribute cash as the value of a child.”
    Uh, Paul – can you read? I said various trials and hearings. I didn’t ascribe any dollar amount to a child. Just passing along the fact that society doesn’t seem to have a fixed value of a child’s life. As Todd has been pointing out, you seem to have a different value of a child’s life depending on whether they are killed with a gun vs killed with malaria.
    You keep repeating the same ‘fact’ about guns killing children but have provided none concerning your sure-fire fix. Until you educate yourself about the different circumstances regarding these tragedies, your opinion isn’t worth a plug nickel.
    Parents are already strictly accountable for their children’s actions. And there are already laws concerning childrens access to anything they are not supposed to possess.
    You need to provide proof of incidents of children having illegal access to fire arms resulting in death/s in which it was impossible to determine who was at fault concerning their access to said firearm because of the lack of registration of that firearm providing that is was legally owned.

    Like

  17. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Quote from Scott
    “As far as the value of a child’s life? I assume you mean the ones outside of the womb. Various hearings and trials have placed the value of a child’s life at an astoundingly varied dollar amount. Some are worth maybe 10 grand while another might be worth millions. Seems to depend on how deep the pockets are of the party having to pay. “

    Like

  18. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    Paul – the article from Forbes was a joke from the start. It is full of false logic and a lack of comprehensive charts of the stats involved. The author provides as much proof as you have that full gun registration will solve this problem. Because she and you have no such proof.

    Like

  19. fish Avatar
    fish

    Honestly I don’t know we still offer to provide free entertainment to Punch and his respective causes and issues? He is incapable of honest argument (most recently the accusation that Scott was responsible for the assignment of a dollar value to the life of a child. Sorry Punch courts and insurance companies have been doing that for years) and frankly allowing him to indulge himself in his “Uncle Punch-E Rope-a-Dope and Good Time Politics Comedy Hour” is just tedious at this point.
    Really Punch, if you are serious about this you need to stop wasting your free time here and start hitting the pavement to get your plan enacted. There will be no shortage of pretentious fellow virtue signalers in congress who will be happy to help (don’t forget to bring your checkbook)!

    Like

  20. George Rebane Avatar

    re PaulE’s 252pm – First, it appears that the cited article by Tara Haelle is fraudulent, and most certainly as a liberal unmarried ‘science journalist’ with neither a STEM degree nor children, her books about children, especially child rearing, range between unfounded and fraudulent. And her wordsmithing the stats on child gun casualties while leaving out the gang-age and gang-prone population segments, in which illegal ownership of guns and gun violations are rampant (and for which more constructive gun confiscation laws are useless), is simply another example of what today is called fake news, a deliberate agenda-driven attempt to mislead readers in the important Second Amendment debate. It is the sum and stuff of cultural Marxism disguised as progressive pabulum.
    http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/06/20/science-journalist-tara-haelle-protect-children-rid-home-guns/

    Like

  21. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    Paul, in a court of law, there will be a cash value assigned to the loss of a child, a spouse, a brother, a parent. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. In western courts, money is what can change hands under civil law.
    While any intentional shooting that is not in defense of life is wrong, the death rates for childhood diseases that you don’t believe in vaccinating for as a price to send a child to a publicly funded school were something like 500 times higher. The 1300 number shouldn’t be relied upon as it very probably includes mutual combat between armed gangs including boys under 18 in towns like Chicago. Valid police shootings of kids with guns, too.

    Like

  22. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Of course there is no “proof” that proposed legislation will solve the problem. there never is. However in my view it’s a step in the right direction.
    Not impressed by Forbes Scott? Here’s from the American Academy of Pediatrics
    http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2017/06/15/peds.2016-3486

    Like

  23. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: Paul Emery | 02 October 2017 at 03:37 PM
    However in my view it’s a step in the right direction.

    Well what’s your next move Paul?

    Like

  24. George Rebane Avatar

    On the face of it, going for more gun laws that only affect law-abiding citizens without yet enforcing the ones already on the books is one-up on Einstein’s definition of insanity. (see also ScottO’s 316pm) Yet that mental state provides a nurturing comfort to liberals, for whom it also serves as a visible badge of membership in their collectivist cabal.

    Like

  25. Walt Avatar

    Paul.. Ca.’s 10 day waiting period was supposed to cure all that.
    In the end it only killed people. Those needing a gun and had to wait. Then the one they needed a gun against,, killed them
    There is plenty of proof on that. Not that it would change your aged mind one bit.

    Like

  26. Walt Avatar

    Now isn’t this special? The LIB trying to prove he has a soul?
    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/democrat-postpones-effort-to-impeach-trump-after-las-vegas-shooting/article/2636291/comments
    Like impeachment is going to happen at all.

    Like

  27. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Lad Vegas
    A horrific mass murder takes place and those with ice water in their veins call for more laws. They be progressive and liberal politicians. No new law would have stopped the carnage in Vegas. No, you can’t pass a quick background check and buy an automatic weapon at some gun show. No, you can’t walk into a gun store and buy an automatic weapon. Machine guns have been illegal since the Tommy guns. There are a few exceptions for historical collection purposes, like museums and the like.
    So, why do those with ice water in their veins decry violence and call for more laws as the families of the dead are in indescribable pain and grief. The wounded have had their lives shattered, never to be the same. The killer pulled a page from the ISIS playbook and shot unarmed men and women and young people in the back.
    Meanwhile, it was once again the LE that charged straight into the direction of where the bullets were coming from to risk their lives to save others. Once again it was the American people on the scene who protected and aided the wounded and the fleeing. Once again, it was the first responders on the scene. Once again, like Houston and Irma, the American people (ordnardy citizens and civilians) joined with law enforcement to help, aid, and rescue the distraught…..while politicians wring their hands and play politics before the bodies are properly buried by their devasted families.
    Like the Dallas PD who were protecting and guarding BLM marchers as another psychopath opened fire, killing 5 officers and wounded nine others. It was the police and first responders who rushed towards danger, while Obama invited those who chanted “Pigs in a blanket, fry them like bacon” to the White House, multiple times. It is people like Colin Cancer Kap that wears socks depicting cops as pigs who play politics. Meanwhile, the call has gone out on one of my conservative site to raise two million dollars for the families of the victims. For the families. For the grieving to help with the funeraland medical expenses. As of this writing, 1.48 million has been raised in 55 minutes. Opps, make that 1.65 million, another 300K came n. Meanwhile, politicians play politics as the American people comfort the hurting.
    What the families in Vegas need now is quiet in the waiting room. Not some ignorant politician that says a AR-15 is a M-1 or saying this is a National Security issue, while securing the border is not.

    Like

  28. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Fish
    To continue to express my view on this and other gun matters and support legislation sand candidates that furthers those objectives.

    Like

  29. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: Paul Emery | 02 October 2017 at 04:18 PM
    So nothing then……..good to know!

    Like

  30. Walt Avatar

    Don’t be surprised if we hear “bunbun” was snuffed.
    He out to piss off as many as he can. OH the things that TROLL
    is saying on the Daily Caller story on the shooting.
    There are a few vowing to hunt the SOB down.For the record, I’m not one of them.
    Would it be wrong if I pointed in which direction he ran?

    Like

  31. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: Walt | 02 October 2017 at 04:27 PM
    link?

    Like

  32. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Bill
    Most of our mass shootings come from Americans citizens not illegal immigrants. How do you resolve that?

    Like

  33. Walt Avatar

    Sorry Fish,, there is no link to give. There are a good few posters ready to shut him up. The comment of “I like mass shootings” got the intended flashover.
    Paul.. Blame the media hate of Trump and Trump supporters.
    A vid has surfaced of the shooter attending an anti Trump protest.
    Sorry,, no link. But count on it being all over the place real soon.

    Like

  34. Walt Avatar

    OK Paul,, Explain why all the high profile mass shootings have been done by LIBS? Care to “resolve” that?

    Like

  35. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    fish, Paul’s next step will be to keep quoting Pediatricians who avoid inconvenient truths to generate statistics that people like Paul will point to but not quote or understand.
    The statistics in that report are truly horrible for African American boys on the face of it… black kids (from infant to 17) have ten times the rate of being the victim of homicide than whites (by .35 to 3.49 per 100k)…, boys in general have nearly four times the homicides than girls (1.46 vs .40) and over nine times (2.6 vs 0.28) the rates among kids 13 thru 17 than younger.
    Combining the probabilities to try to understand what the rate for African American boys older than 13 could be yields an estimate of a whopping death rate due to being intentionally shot by another among teenaged black boys might be as high as 130 per 100,000. Truly shocking numbers that the pediatricians were apparently whitewashing out of the statistics by not reporting it as a separate line item in Table 1 and as they have the raw data I can only assume they didn’t want to know.
    I think the upshot is that the American Academy of Pediatrics hate guns more than they love black boys, who really need support.

    Like

  36. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    What do you know about Stephen Paddock that gives you the insight that he is a so called LIB?

    Like

  37. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: Gregory | 02 October 2017 at 04:57 PM
    Well it’s just that he seemed so vehement. I thought there might actually be something to his protestations this time.

    Like

  38. George Rebane Avatar

    I am constantly amazed at how this discussion is going with PaulE being answered, but not responding to any questions or points that counter his assertions. It’s as if all responses to him wind up in a black hole.

    Like

  39. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Walt, Timothy McVeigh may take offense to your assumption about LIBS.

    Like

  40. fish Avatar
    fish

    Noted local scholar weighs in…..

    Joe Koyote says:
    October 2, 2017 at 4:33 pm
    John, I used to work in a sporting goods store that sold Colt AR 15s. Enthusiasts of that particular weapon claimed it was a very simple procedure to convert them to full auto. So, given the fact that assault style weapons, semi or full auto, have only a single purpose, to kill other human beings, it might be prudent for an ever more diverse and insane population to extremely limit who can possess such armament. The death rate just keeps climbing and the atrocities just keep getting bigger so one can only conclude that the current policies in place and those of the NRA simply do not work. It is time to clamp down on gun availability before our streets turn back into the wild west….. if they haven’t already.
    Joe Koyote says:
    October 2, 2017 at 4:45 pm
    Apparently, it is legal to own machine guns in Nevada and other states as well.

    Gee JoKe….you’d think we would be having a machine gun slaughter a week if those mods were that easy and your “diverse and insane population” were as “murdery” as you imply!
    Seriously, how do you summon the courage to climb out from under your bed every day you useless rabbit?

    Like

  41. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    Golly, Paul, McVeigh? How many people did he shoot?
    Zero?

    Like

  42. Walt Avatar

    The ONE questionable exception. Good going Paul. Now how bout the rest? John Wilkes Booth was a Dem. Start there.( Hell! Your old enough to have been a t Ford’s Theater.) Some things never change. Actors still hate Repubs.
    Like I said. There is a video out showing him at an anti Trump rally. I watched it,, now can’t find it. It will turn up soon enough for you.

    Like

  43. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Gregory, what difference does it make what race the children killed by gun violence may be?
    I stand corrected Gregory, McVeigh used a bomb.

    Like

  44. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    No black hole George. 1300 children a year stands as an established fact no matter how your crew spins it.

    Like

  45. Walt Avatar

    As far as I can tell,, this is only the second time a full auto weapon has been used in a mass shooting.
    The only other I know of was the LA. bank hold up some decades ago.

    Like

  46. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: Paul Emery | 02 October 2017 at 05:19 PM
    …..like I said…..nothing.

    Like

  47. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    ou live in your own little world Fish. Facts mean nothing to you if they are contrary to your predetermined opinion I have no interest in challenging that.

    Like

  48. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    Paul, it’s inner city gang warfare, mostly young black men and boys, that are doing the shooting, and the “pediatricians” are covering it up.
    Just mush it all up into 1300 kids are dying, we need to reduce the availability of guns.
    Paul, you are the very model of a modern major useful idiot.

    Like

  49. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    PE 531
    “Facts mean nothing to you if they are contrary to your predetermined opinion”
    THE IRONY, IT BURNS!

    Like

  50. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    “No black hole George. 1300 children a year stands as an established fact no matter how your crew spins it.”
    Paul – just repeating the ‘fact’ of 1300 children a year dying from fire arms does absolutely nothing to reduce those numbers. You have now admitted that the reason you won’t give any proof that your ‘step in the right direction’ will do any good is because you have no proof.
    Studying the breakdown of the total number of deaths in your own words are considered by you to be ‘finesse’ and ‘spin’.
    Paul clearly has no clue as to the formal and logical way to look at and solve a problem.
    And now he’s dodged onto a new tack by saying that no illegal immigrants have ever been involved in a mass shooting in this country.
    But what about the children that have died in this country because of illegal immigrants?
    Oh – those children. Well, they clearly don’t have the high value Paul claims to have with other children.
    Fun fact for Paul – how many American children died from gunfire by an illegal immigrant?
    Paul will now start a new topic.

    Like

Leave a comment