Rebane's Ruminations
September 2017
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[In his 22sep17 letter to The Union’s editor, my friend Norm Sauer shares the Left’s conundrum in a clear, concise, and complete format originally summarized by L. Poplack of Olympia (where they used to brew my favorite beer).  The only problem remaining – is the Left sharp enough to understand the situation?  From the local leftists the answer is an unambiguous NO.  gjr]

Norm Sauer

A "conundrum" is that which is puzzling or confusing. Consider the following, from Larry Poplack of Olympia, Washington:

  1. America is capitalist and greedy — yet half of the population is subsidized.
  2. Half of the population is subsidized — yet they think they are victims.
  3. They think they are victims — yet their representatives run the government.
  4. Their representatives run the government — yet the poor keep getting poorer.
  5. The poor keep getting poorer — yet they have things that people in other countries only dream about.
  6. They have things that people in other countries only dream about — yet they want America to be more like those other countries.

The sad reality is the Democrat Progressive Socialist Party needs people to fail, be without jobs, without health care, without insurance, and in economic pain for the party to succeed. With such misery, more people will be incapable of helping themselves and big government will (help them) at the immoral expense of taking from the producers.

The Progressive Socialists run from the Trump Administration's demonstrated job growth, reduced unemployment, surge in housing starts, the Dow's record highs, and decreased illegal border crossings.

The conundrum: they say Trump and Republicans are crazy!

Posted in , , ,

179 responses to “The Socialists’ Conundrum”

  1. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    According to Paul Emery Exxon got a 1 billion dollars subsidy. (I say tax credits). And they paid 24 billion in taxes to the feds. Not including the payroll taxes of all their employees. So they are a net gainer of 23 billion to the treasury regardless. KVMR is a direct loser to the treasury., Paul Emery, GIVE UP YOUR SUBSIDIES!

    Like

  2. George Rebane Avatar

    BarryP 727am – good luck getting a response from anyone one the left. RR has explained for years that businesses effectively pay no taxes on the operating revenues. Tax is an expense which is factored into the prices that clients/consumers pay. But business taxes do have a powerful political component. When the nebbishes clamor for higher taxes on greedy businesses, they are really kicking their own butts.

    Like

  3. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    Paul, what you are calling a “subsidy” Exxon would call wages, salary and benefits deductions from Exxon’s corporate income tax… a cost of doing business.
    Even if there was no “corporate income” tax, every dollar of profit would still get taxed, either as a salary to the person paying the tax or an owner of the stock getting a dividend. The best way of getting rid of the “subsidy” of high corporate salaries is to get rid of the corporate income tax, which does for government what the mob used to do by skimming money from casinos in Vegas. No corporate income tax, no tax deductions.
    How about it, Paul?
    About the tithing to Democracy Now!, that’s an issue of local money being shipped out of state. Or your federal subsidy being shipped out of state… I’m surprised the station’s News Director wouldn’t have the number handy.

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  4. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Gregory
    Why should a company that can afford to pay it’s CEO 24 million dollars need any handouts (subsieies) from American taxpayers. Seems they are doing pretty well, not exactly a struggling startup.

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  5. fish Avatar
    fish

    Why should a company that can afford to pay it’s CEO 24 million dollars need any handouts (subsieies) from American taxpayers.
    I know it’s difficult for you to hold two separate lines of thought simultaneously Punch but Mr. Tillersons compensation is a separate issue from any subsidies Exxon receives.

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  6. George Rebane Avatar

    re PaulE’s 1123am – For the intelligent reader: Apropos to Mr fish’s 1134am we add the overarching observation of Mr Emery’s indelible liberal view that the government already owns what the taxpayers (including businesses) earn. And that taking less than a previously stipulated amount from said taxpayer is akin to giving the taxpayer a “handout” of monies that de juris are not his in the first place. This is another tenet of the collectivist’s overall ideology that it all belongs to government (the collective), which then by its grace leaves some of its monies in the pockets of those who earned it, while never giving up its prerogative to relieve said workers of more of their earnings whenever the need arises.

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  7. Don Bessee Avatar
    Don Bessee

    Dr. R- Its always good to remember that those screaming loudest for the ruin of corporations are mostly folks that do not pay ANY income tax and hold no investments. The lack of understanding that corporations are primarily owned by union pension funds who rely on the profits to fuel dividends that pay those union pensions is astounding. Their view of the world is from moms basement and through a Bernie bro I phone app on top of years of indoctrination instead of an education. Antifa are their storm troopers. Right comrade druid? 😉

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  8. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    George R 1209, Paul’s view on this point isn’t liberal and it certainly isn’t libertarian. It’s democratic socialist, or social democratic. Or socialist if one can dispense with softening the blow of calling a spade a spade.
    From the von Mises folk:
    https://mises.org/library/no-tax-breaks-are-not-subsidies
    But this deduction from corporate income taxes isn’t a usual “tax break”. It’s bloody common sense. If you hire a carpenter to build you a house, the money you pay that carpenter to build the house is added to the cost of the land and materials and etc etc when determining the cost basis, and when you go to sell the house, if it cost you $100k to build and you sell it for $200k, you have $100k profit.
    Paul’s logic holds that if you sold the house for $200k you owe income taxes on $200k.
    Paul’s unstated position (probably because he wasn’t listening carefully to whoever it was that gave him the idea) that Tillerson’s salary was “excessive” and anything over some minimum (what would that be, Paul?) should not be deductible to XOM. XOM can afford to pay XOM because, in part, they hired a CEO who ran it well enough to earn profits that were high enough to cause a tax bill that was about 1000 times his bloated salary. I would have charged them a lot less to sit in Tillerson’s chair at XOM but it would not have been a bargain for stockholders.

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  9. George Rebane Avatar

    Gregory 1245pm – Of course, I didn’t mean ‘liberal’ in the classic sense, but did use the current catchall for those of the Left (various collectivist) persuasions. But I’ll settle for ‘socialist’ any day, and even ‘communist’ on some particularly cloudy days 😉
    Here’s one worthy who suffers mightily attempting a definition.
    http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/02/14/what-is-liberal-what-is-conservative.html

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  10. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    George, of course I was aware of your intent, but more and more “liberal” is just another word for a leftist bigot who wants to remove free speech rights for words they don’t agree with. So let’s not use it for them. They don’t deserve the label.

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  11. George Rebane Avatar

    Gregory 252pm – OK, let’s have an interesting sidebar. In my readings I am told more and more by national pundits that ‘liberal’ has become the pejorative form for ‘progressive’ – I didn’t know that. Nobody today confuses ‘liberal’ with Bastiat or his ilk. But as one always happy to expand the language, what would you then call “a leftist bigot who wants to remove free speech rights for words they don’t agree with”?

    Like

  12. Paul emery Avatar
    Paul emery

    Fish
    It Is not a separate issue from subsidies A business must be extremely successful and to pay their CEO $24 million Why then should they ask for a subsidy from the working tax pairs of America ?

    Like

  13. Don Bessee Avatar
    Don Bessee

    Did you pay any federal income tax this year ya po’ ol’ fakenewsman? 😉

    Like

  14. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Sure did

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  15. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Did you get a tax deduction for your losing effort in promoting Measure W

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  16. Don Bessee Avatar
    Don Bessee

    You can tell when the po’ ol’ fakenewsman is overwrought he forgets his po’ ol’ punctuation and changes the subject. Now it will be why, why, why? 😉

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  17. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: Paul emery | 04 September 2017 at 03:48 PM
    This response explains much about your outlook.
    Apple receives favorable tax consideration at both the state and federal levels……

    His anniversary present: nearly $136.5 million worth of Apple stock, related to a deal that Cook struck when he became CEO back in 2011. In all, Cook has been paid $373 million related to the initial share deal. And he could still cash in another $360 million in the next five years, based on Apple’s current stock price.

    Tim Cook seems to being doing OK from a compensation standpoint….. no complaints about him?

    Like

  18. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Don
    I thought you get a tax deduction for loosing efforts and Measure W certainly qualified as that.
    Flop Flop Flop

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  19. Don Bessee Avatar
    Don Bessee

    Aw shucks, it was only 750k tax free, Trump change eh. 😉

    Like

  20. George Rebane Avatar

    It would be interesting to hear from our liberal readers of how many of the legal deductions applying to them in the current tax code that they leave on the table due to altruistic considerations. Their inability to transfer such sentiments to the business sector should surprise no one. Do not expect an answer to this.

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  21. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    I find it rich that Paul Emery is holding a company to some standards he himself enjoys and says they are bad. You can’t make up such a logical disconnect.

    Like

  22. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Only 70 k local taxpayers money Don to but that Bowzer on the ballot.

    Like

  23. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    sp
    put that bowser on the ballot

    Like

  24. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Todd
    I’m envious because I only make 15 million a year. Chump change in the corporate world that depends on taxpayer handouts and subsidies

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  25. Don Bessee Avatar
    Don Bessee

    WOW that’s a lot of missing punctuation there po’ po’ pitiful you fakenewsman. It was me messing with you not Todd on the 750K. Sorry its too complicated to follow when the talking points for party parrots run out. 😉

    Like

  26. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Todd, Don
    Different birds
    same squawk

    Like

  27. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Where are your tax returns then Paul Emery? Show us. And though you never answer any questions, how about this. Whose money is Tillerson’s?

    Like

  28. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Alonso Guillen ……..
    This is the type of person Trump wants to deport
    “This Dreamer Died Saving Harvey Flood Victims. His Body Was Found The Day Reports Surfaced Trump Will Kill DACA”
    Alonso Guillen came to the U.S. from Mexico as a child. He died here, too: On Wednesday, he disappeared when his boat capsized while he was rescuing survivors of the flooding caused by Hurricane Harvey in the Houston area.
    Family members recovered his body on Sunday from a creek in Spring, Texas, according to The Houston Chronicle ― just hours before reports emerged that President Donald Trump will end the program that shielded Guillen and others like him ― so-called Dreamers ― from deportation.”
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/alonso-guillen-daca_us_59ad6849e4b0b5e531000f1c?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009

    Like

  29. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    I’ll show my tax returns when Trump does.

    Like

  30. George Rebane Avatar

    Re the continuing thread, note that it is as if I had never posted my 526pm. There are certain embarrassing subjects that progressives must never touch; no, no, no.

    Like

  31. Walt Avatar

    Now taxes? Paul sure know how to pick’m. Keep it local bub,, How bout all those dope growers Paul? Think the “man” is getting his due? I doubt most of the growers ain’t pay’n no taxes. State or otherwise. I know,I know… That be different. They are oppressed.
    It’s all for medical use anyway… Right?
    Speaking of tax dodgers, Zuckerberg sure screwed over the state and FEDS, when he “donated” GOD know how much, to his “charity”. ALL a big write off. And for a guy who hates “walls”, sure spared no expense erecting one of his own around his property in Hawaii. (to keep the natives out)

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  32. Walt Avatar

    @ Paul’s 6:41
    Uh,, NO you won’t. Yellowstone will erupt first.

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  33. George Rebane Avatar

    Zuckerberg, ‘Do as I say and not as I do.’

    Like

  34. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Walt
    Why is it important that you see my tax returns Walt?

    Like

  35. Walt Avatar

    I know Paul’s memory is on the wrong side of sketchy, so a little reminder.
    The tax man took it hard and dry when he got “Zucked”. The biggest tax dodge known to the IRS. (not my words… damn.) Not millions, or tens of millions, Try something that starts with a “B”.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/04/business/dealbook/how-mark-zuckerbergs-altruism-helps-himself.html
    Now find something to bitch about Trump’s taxes… Paul.

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  36. Walt Avatar

    Don’t blame me wise ass,, your the one who put it out there. “I will when Trump does.”

    Like

  37. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    That’s when Trump reveals his taxes voluntarily not under court order, which will probably happen. What do I have to do with Zukenberg Walt? Please explain.

    Like

  38. Don Bessee Avatar
    Don Bessee

    OH, why, why, why @ 734. I heard DACA is dead, anyone see anything about that? 😉

    Like

  39. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Let them stay! Unless they are on welfare then send them back.And no more lawyers out of that group.

    Like

  40. Walt Avatar

    Well Paul, you seem to have tunnel vision. You only bitch about someone on the Right.
    I am providing balance. Deal with it.

    Like

  41. Walt Avatar

    BTW Paul, there is no law stating the President MUST turn them over.
    “There is no legal requirement of any kind that presidential candidates release tax returns from any year. Indeed, there is a strict, strong constitutional right to privacy for all tax returns. Thus, tax returns can be released by an individual taxpayer, but cannot released by the IRS to the public. However, one Senator has proposed legislation requiring presidential candidates to release tax returns.”
    You could never figure them out anyway.
    It’s a good time for you to try and change the subject again.

    Like

  42. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    GR 326pm
    Any left-liberal bigot who wants to be called a Progressive because ‘liberal’ has lost its positive connotations should be indulged.
    Paul 3:48
    “It Is not a separate issue from subsidies A business must be extremely successful and to pay their CEO $24 million Why then should they ask for a subsidy from the working tax pairs of America ?”
    Paul, it isn’t asking for a “subsidy” when a company deducts the costs of operation. Period.
    Did you ask for a “subsidy” when you deducted the interest you paid on the mortgage on your hovel? No, you deducted the cost of renting the money, and the holder of the mortgage paid the tax on that as income. Same thing with XOM and Tillerson, and XOM is REQUIRED to deduct the cost of executive salaries or they’d be liable to lawsuits from the stockholders for throwing away money they are entitled to receive.
    In other words, since you’ve once again ignored reality when laid out for you multiple times, STFU.

    Like

  43. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Gregory
    Definition of subsidy:
    a sum of money granted by the government or a public body to assist an industry or business so that the price of a commodity or service may remain low or competitive.
    Paying an exec 24 million is certainly not in the spirit of keeping the prices of a commodity or service low. Everyone who purchases that product is contributing to the gross bloated salaries of the 1% elite.

    Like

  44. Walt Avatar

    One last thing on taxes. Any self respecting capitalist won’t pay one penny more to the government that he needs too. The gov. pisses away more that it should on SOOO many levels. The less he can pay, more power to him. So hats off to Zuck, for sticking it too the man.
    Dope growers are a different story.(except the ones playing by the rules and the law)
    Don’t worry Paul,, the day will come in the distant future that Progressives will regain power.(probably by gun point in some way) They will raise taxes beyond your wildest dreams.
    Read or watch ” Atlas shrugged”. There will be that Progressive utopia.

    Like

  45. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    Paul, deducting wages and salaries paid determining income taxes does not fit the definition you dug up.
    You are continuing an argument that identifies you as a f’ing punch drunk idiot. A palooka.
    Good luck getting to your gigs walking.

    Like

  46. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Gregory
    My definition is from Websters. What’s yours?
    I don’t believe taxpayers should be forced to pay from theor hardd earned wages to “assist an industry or business” that makes so much money they pay their CEO 24 million. You believe that’s OK. I don’t. Pretty simple.

    Like

  47. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    need glasses
    their hard earned wages

    Like

  48. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    Paul, it’s basic accounting principles, not a subsidy. Stop being such a f’ing loon.
    XOM’s owners, like George, seemed happy with Tillerson’s pay vs his performance and if they didn’t, they had the chance every day to sell the stock. Mostly, they didn’t. Why was that, Paul?
    Personally, I agree, the high corporate tax rate does mean they pay for goods and services with discounted dollars. My solution is to drastically cut the corporate income tax rate and make every expenditure off the bottom line. Your solution is to bitch about the 1% getting richer than you. The will do that in any case, Paul.

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  49. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    What is your definition of subsidy Gregory?

    Like

  50. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    It ain’t the deductibility of wages and salaries, Paul. That’s a variation on Cost of Goods Sold.
    You’re a f’ing idiot.

    Like

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