222 responses to “Sandbox – 10aug17”

1. 

   Todd Juvinall

   12 August 2017

   Paul Emery | 12 August 2017 at 12:44 PM
   Today Kim Jong Un spoke of his endorsements of democrat Hillary Clinton but was reminded she lost.

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2. 

   Paul Emery

   12 August 2017

   Yes Bonnie to paraphrase ecclesiastics “Men come and go but Earth Abides, ”
   King James Bible
   “One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.”

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3. 

   George Rebane

   12 August 2017

   Then one wonders what all the liberal hullabaloo is about ‘saving the Earth’.

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4. 

   Bill the Tozer

   12 August 2017

   Well why don’t we all March up to the Miners Foundry and destroy those old Pelton Wheels and the water cannons known as monitors and just smash then with sledgehammers and destroy all artifacts from the Evil mining Earth destructing history. In fact I know a few Old-Timers that have a monitor in their front yard that we can pay a visit to and maybe burn down their houses and make them pay for the sins of their forefathers. Gets smash the ore carts while we are at it. Then we need to tear down that gawd awful symbol of white colonialism and destruction AKA that horrible Monument to the friggin Donner Party. They ate my people

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5. 

   Todd Juvinall

   12 August 2017

   Pocahontas spoke at NETROOTS today.
   http://sierradragonsbreathe.blogspot.com/2017/08/netroots-nation-conglomeration-of-loony.html

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6. 

   rl crabb

   12 August 2017

   Going through family archives today and looking at my maternal grandmother’s old relatives, most of whom were relics of the 19th Century. Her maiden name was Davis, a cousin of Jefferson. Cousin Jeff and Bobby Lee were on the wrong side of history. Lee was offered the command of the Union army, but chose to go rebel. They were traitors, and worse yet, supported the peculiar institution of slavery.
   Now Grandfather Allen came from another branch of American history. He was related to Clan Ross, as in Betsy of flag fame. The last time I saw him in 1978, we had a disagreement over race relations. I suspected he had Klan affiliations, but it wasn’t confirmed until my Uncle Ev told me at my mother’s funeral in ’08.
   Well, you can’t pick your relatives, but you don’t have to carry on their traditions. Mine were traitors and racist scum. I reject everything they stood for. Take those confederate statues and put them in a museum somewhere where you can put them in their true context, not on a pedestal.

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7. 

   Todd Juvinall

   12 August 2017

   RL Crabb, the American version of ISIS!

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8. 

   ScenesFromTheApocalypse

   12 August 2017

   “RL Crabb, the American version of ISIS!”
   Not so untrue really.
   Imagine if the rules for a publicly visual statue were that you couldn’t show a) Wrong side of a civil or general war from the observer’s viewpoint and/or b) owned slaves
   A heckuva lot of older buildings, monuments, statues would have to go away.
   I mean, check out these slaves on Marcus Aurelius’s column. I say to tear that puppy down.
   http://l7.alamy.com/zooms/aa807f85cc3549e8955f932d5bc3f49e/detail-of-marcus-aureliuss-victory-column-with-distressed-slaves-rome-da1b39.jpg
   The funny thing about this US Civil War era stuff is that the people who really might have cared, let’s say in the early 1900’s, seemed to be fine with it. How did modern people get so darn sensitive?

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9. 

   Walt

   12 August 2017

   Well hells bells. Crabb and my step kids are RELATED! (Ross line)
   So you’re a “tear it down and bury it” kind of guy.(figures as much)
   So hide the history you don’t like. Got it. Then your progeny far down the line will be doomed to repeat it. Great thinking.
   Now Crabb,, better watch what cartoon you draw today. in 100 or so years, your works just might twist off someone or group. There might be a long line waiting to piss on your grave.
   But it’s all fine and dandy today.
   One of my Grandpappy’s was working the mines South of here. On the news of Lincoln’s assassination, he slaughtered an ox and threw a party for the mining camp.
   That’s just the way it was. I don’t bury that history I protect it.

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10. 

    Paul Emery

    12 August 2017

    Todd writes “RL Crabb, the American version of ISIS!”
    I didn’t know Crabb kills people at random like Isis does. Please document Todd.
    You have surpassed yourself with this one Todd. I didn’t know it was possible. I mean calling me a traitor that should be tried for treason, desiring pot sellers who sell to minors death in the public square by firing squad and now saying our remarkable cartoonist and social commentary wizard Bob Crabb is an incarnation of ISIS puts you in rare company especially in our little towns where we all know each other. Love to see you run for pubic office again but you never will becaus3 you’ll have to face the music on your hate statements.

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11. 

    George Rebane

    12 August 2017

    Calling the Confederates traitors requires one to take a giant step of hubris. The correct name of the 1860-65 conflict is the War for Southern Independence. In a ‘civil war’ both sides want to become/remain the governing institution for the entire country/territory. The South had no such objective; they merely wanted to secede, and do their own thing with which you may agree or not. But they had no desire to topple the existing US government in Washington.
    Un/fortunately it is the victors who write the history books and assign labels to what they deem to have happened. I suppose it takes a mite longer than 150 years to forgive the South for wanting to secede, especially if one faction of the victors today sees a new use for vilifying the Confederacy – namely to create, resurrect, and intensify class schisms so that the country will finally weaken enough to fracture and be ready for assimilation into the brave new global world.

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12. 

    Paul Emery

    12 August 2017

    Mums the word from Trump on condemning the white racist groups that instigated today riots because he knows they are part of his “core” supporters. Also no response to David Duke who earlier today said:
    ““This represents a turning point for the people of this country,” said Duke in video uploaded to Twitter by Indianapolis Star photojournalist Mykal McEldowney. “We are determined to take our country back. We are going to fulfill the promises of Donald Trump. That’s what we believed in, that’s why we voted for Donald Trump. Because he said he’s going to take our country back. That’s what we gotta do.”

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13. 

    Gregory

    12 August 2017

    It figures… Punch-E can’t use the Russiagate thing or polls today… so instead talk about David Duke, publicity whore, who can always be counted on saying something that is quotable by the left that really has no bearing on national politics. Nothing Duke has ever said has ever mattered except to lazy and/or dishonest Democratic Party leaning journalists and the folks who look to them for talking points.
    Regarding the collapsed Russia-did-it narrative… where is Michael P. Anderson? IIRC it wasn’t too long after the election he was claiming anyone who wasn’t following the DNC lead to delegitimize the election was virtually a traitor

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14. 

    rl crabb

    12 August 2017

    Thanks for the revealing responses. I’m sure Mussolini was a nice guy and a patriot, but they don’t really justify his politics with statuary. Same with Hitler, Stalin (although he’s making a comeback), Saddam, and other heroes of lost causes.
    You guys can rationalize anything.

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15. 

    ScenesFromTheApocalypse

    12 August 2017

    “Mums the word from Trump on condemning the white racist groups blah blah blah”
    Seriously, I wonder when that became part of political trash talk. I’ll have to look back and see if conservative groups did a ten second countdown and then started bashing Obama for not condemning the occasional beat-down of bystanders by left wing radicals. They certainly can be as stupid as Green Libertarians, so it’s quite possible.
    I have to admit that the birth of a semi-radical right is an interesting new concept. The Nazis have always been with us, but since they basically were an ethnically-oriented clump of socialists (after all, it isn’t like Hitler was against national healthcare) and were always a tiny fringe, they really aren’t interesting. To see a group of younger people who are as strong in their belief system as the last few decades worth of college students and Berkeley Communists (and Anarchists…an odd marriage, it’s as if they don’t know what it all means) is a fresh idea and makes for breathless news cycles.
    It does have to feel odd for Green Libertarian marchers to run into a matching passion (and higher testosterone level) for politics.
    I’m not sure if there’s some great cycle at work here, or it’s simply that the heartland of the country has just had enough. Kind of a dramatic way to reach homeostasis.

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16. 

    Paul Emery

    12 August 2017

    Polls are there Gregory Down 27 in the IPP, the most accurate poll in the last election. Lots going on in the Russia probe. Just ask Trumps former campaign chief Paul Manifort who had unexpected guests for breakfast a couple of weeks ago.

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17. 

    Todd Juvinall

    12 August 2017

    ISIS tore down statues of those they disagree with and I see no difference with Crabb desiring the same thing. The ISIS wannabees could have placed a plaque on the statues extolling the crumminess of the person they disliked. But no, they have to remove from history the things they don’t like. Chicken shits all. What if the other ISIS wannabees hated comics and decided to kll the cartoonists? Oh, that right, they did. So it is a very slippery slope to to start the after Caeser destruction of Caesar statues.
    Sort of like YOUTUBE taking down the “free speech” rants on free speech.

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18. 

    Walt

    12 August 2017

    Here we go. How dare those people exercise their 1ST amendment rights. You may not a word they say, but this still is America. They have every right to say what’s on their mind.
    Ever think that far Paul?
    Then there is the ANTIFA.. Who are closer to the real fascists than anyone else these days.
    Our LIBS need to take a new look at the definition of what a fascist really is. Then come back and try and bitch.
    Ya.. You guys with blogs, who “moderate” what is said. Little fascist much?

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19. 

    Walt

    12 August 2017

    Paul wasn’t listening.
    http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/08/12/americans-first-donald-trump-calls-peace-condemns-violence-sides/

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20. 

    Todd Juvinall

    12 August 2017

    Paul Emery | 12 August 2017 at 02:56 PM
    Thanks for keeping tract of things. I sometimes forget my erudite and accurate statements. You seem to lack a noggin when it comes to why those things were said. But that is what you supposed “news” people do. Parse everything to your own bias. ISIS dstros religious monuments they disagree with. Now do you get it you dolt? An yes drug pushers to kids should be executed in the most public way. Maybe a firing squad? Hanging? They spread their poisin and you support it. Your are a disgusting human being.
    Running for office is not something I desire. I beat your candidates and that isenough for me. And there is a brass plaue with my name on it at the Rood Center. Now you can be like ISIS too and go destroy it. What a guy.

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21. 

    ScenesFromTheApocalypse

    12 August 2017

    re: RLCrabb@3:32PM
    “Thanks for the revealing responses.”
    Yeah, yeah. Cuz everybody else is a Nazi.
    The statue fuss is a funny one. During Reconstruction, it doesn’t seem to have caused a lot of problems, and that was during and just after an outright occupation of defeated rival. If you’d bother to read any contemporary accounts, you’ll notice that these statue and monument unveilings were usually presented as a kind of reconciliation ceremony with important participants from both sides showing up. It isn’t like these big pieces of civic art were snuck in during the dead of night by men in conical hats, as much as you might wish this were so. About as close as you’ll get to a sneaky backstory on one of the bigger lumps of metal would be Cromwell.
    Maybe…just maybe, this is all based on modern politics and belief systems and really has very little to do with the US Civil War.

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22. 

    Paul Emery

    12 August 2017

    To our new readers Todd Juvinall is a former NC Supervisor 20 or 30 years ago who lost at every attempt at public office after that and also became a failed developer and is now a bitter recluse emerging only to dangle his worm occasionally at Friar Tucks and sometimes appear at Republican events where he can talk about his glory days. Sad , A local legend for sure.

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23. 

    Paul Emery

    12 August 2017

    All for me for today. Trump where are you? You can’t hide from the activities of your followers.

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24. 

    Walt

    12 August 2017

    I see Paul can’t read either.

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25. 

    Todd Juvinall

    12 August 2017

    Paul Emery | 12 August 2017 at 04:12 PM
    The readers know you purport to be a “journalist” and they can see why Americans don’t believe a single word you say. I am glad I occupy rent free a large part inside your head. What a hoot!
    And golly, I have only been to Friar Tuck’s four times this year and I had their clams. Great food!

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26. 

    Gregory

    12 August 2017

    RL, Mussolini was so loved by his people they hung him for show after they caught him and had him shot.
    Looking up some history, even Jefferson Davis was never charged with treason (or any other crime) after being held for two years. After the Confederates surrendered, the order of the day was not retribution but mostly reconciliation.
    Washington and Lee College got it’s name from Robert E. Lee, who was President of Washington College for five years until his death.
    In short, Earl, Mussolini was a hated dictator, as were Hitler, Saddam, not to mention Pol Pot and a few other mass murderers. Stalin had his day ended by Khrushchev’s telling the country what their recent history was. Lumping the Confederates with those folk really is revisionist history that is lousy history even for RL Crabb.
    Now I don’t have any family who were Confederates as far as I know, I do have a Union army belt from a distant relative who ran off to join a Missouri regiment, lying about his age.

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27. 

    rl crabb

    12 August 2017

    As usual, Todd reads what he’d like to believe into my post. I never, ever said the confederate monuments should be destroyed, only put into museums where their history could be put into context. And isn’t it nice that Walt is proud that his ancestor celebrated the murder of the president. I acknowledge mine, but not so approvingly.

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28. 

    Bill Tozer

    12 August 2017

    Mums the word says Punchy, not ABC News.
    http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-joins-politicians-reaction-white-nationalist-rally-virginia/story?id=49178910
    This whole tear down the statues of Civil War generals and removing names on Ivy Leaugue buildings from founding benefactors because they owned slaves two hundred years and fifty ago is what is happening now in real time. Latest fad. Sanitize and demonize. Rewrite it, make it more multicultural. We were founded on Islamic principles, right?
    Nothing is taken in context of the times, how it was in the 15th and 16th Centuries and even in the 19th and 20th Centuries, referencing Mao, Stalin, Lenin, Hilter, the KKK’s foundling by the Democrat Party, the Japense rape of Nanjing during the second Sino-Japanese War., Jim Crow laws, pick your outrage.
    It’s our history and it is what is was. History. US history and World history. Just history. Past history. It’s not like anybody is making an amusement park dedicated to General Stonewall Jackson nor Hernan Cortes. Slaves? You mean the Mayan Empire or the Incas? History. Just history. Johnnie Reb was a traitor? Perhaps. It is called the War Between the States. Men fought valiantly on both sides, and there were many fallen heros. You can’t take that away from them…..or can you.
    Guess no more Civil War reenactments ever to be taken place again. Too bad. I always was intrigued by the Civil War surgeon’s tents and primative tools used for amputating limbs and legs. Guess that is where the term ‘Old Sawbones’ came from. World War One (The Great War to end all wars) had to given us the term ‘meat wagon’ judging by the photos in museums. Guess it’s time we take Thomas Jefferson off the five spot.

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29. 

    Bonnie McGuire

    12 August 2017

    Paul Emery Aug 12 1:31pm…Yes Paul, the King James Version is my favorite Bible because it contains the Hebrew and Greek translations and cross references. It’s kind of like an ancient computer that requires concentration. The process is similar to meditation turning on the light. A living book where the more you experience the greater your understanding.
    Can you imagine what would happen “If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land?” (2 Chronicles 7:14).
    Reminds me of General George Washington’s alleged vision at Valley Forge. Some say that it is substantiated by the fact that a copy of the account is in the Library of Congress, and others claim otherwise using opposing dates. Snopes says it’s false, but many people don’t always agree with their politics. How easy it is to change anything you want.
    http://www.ushistory.org/valleyforge/washington/vision.html
    Simple pschycology for the betterment of society, but today’s political activists like Yale’s insist that all of history must be made to conform with their current political attitude. I suppose the vandals forgot that if we forget history’s lessons, we’re bound to repeat it’s mistakes.
    http://www.nationalreview.com/article/450407/yale-erases-history-campus-statue-covered-appeasing-activist-mob

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30. 

    Walt

    12 August 2017

    It is what it is RL,, It’s real easy to pass judgment on what happened 100+ years ago.
    Look at the bright side RL,, Gramps didn’t kill the U.S. marshal that was sent to “collect” him for that party. He didn’t go to the pokey either.
    There is plenty of civil war history from right here. Should that be buried even deeper because you don’t like it?

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31. 

    George Rebane

    12 August 2017

    It appears that no one here knows how the VA violence started. Our leftwing readers talk as if the ‘Unite the Right’ people showed up with the means and intent to attack the counter demonstrators, and did so with gay abandon when the Left arrived. I haven’t seen or heard of an account of how the violence started – has anyone?
    Since the news was broadcast, President Trump has condemned “the egregious display of hatred, bigotry, and violence” in repeated statements, none of which are sufficient for the Left (examples above) who read everything except the President’s intent into his statements. Witness the dismissive sniff of Bob Crabb’s 332pm.
    In such street confrontations one side shows up first and demonstrates peacefully until the opposition shows up, then the trouble starts. Is it proper to then argue without further evidence that the first group started the violence? We all recall in these cases, it takes two to tango.

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32. 

    ScenesFromTheApocalypse

    12 August 2017

    re:RL Crabb
    “only put into museums where their history could be put into context. ”
    Their ‘context’ is that they were erected as a point of pride and with the full knowledge of everyone concerned. It seems to me that the context is as much putting up the statue as the statue itself.
    The nice part about their real context is that they are already there. Sweet. No money need be spent, just leave them alone.
    Please, just admit it. The whole point of this statue business is a bit of agitprop against white Southerners. They’ll get stuck in a building filled with pictures of slave shacks and underground railroad dioramas. It’s all just a tiny skirmish in the ongoing cold civil war.

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33. 

    Todd Juvinall

    12 August 2017

    My understanding is the people of the south that did not want to REL statue demolished organized a protest. How they then got labeled “White Supremacist” has escaped me so far. Probably the media and the left. But I could be wrong. And having been to Berkeley and watched that “Antifa” start the violence, my guess it was they who started it in Virginee.
    RL, I read your post just how you intended it. You now want to rewrite what you wrote to mean something else. The removal of artifacts into a museum from their historical place is an ISIS move, plain and simple. Except ISIS had no museum. I saw where ISIS destroyed all the monuments, headstones, in a huge cemetary in Mosul I think it was. Acres of headstones demolished. My guess is you are in favor of moving all those confederate headstones into your museum as well then?

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34. 

    Walt

    12 August 2017

    The theft of history continues today.
    In one of those monuments that’s been taken down, a time capsule was found. The group that originally placed it still exists today. Daughters of the South, or something like that.
    They wanted to be the ones to open it. It was “theirs” (so to speak) But No. The “city” took control. (probably the same a-holes that voted to take the monument down) So that group got their history swiped.

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35. 

    Bill Tozer

    12 August 2017

    Guess it was all too predicable. Punch -E running over here demanding we all join in and condemn David Duke or White Supremacists or the rally in NC. Strike that. Maybe because we did not make that rally the focal point of every comment is what got his goat. Like the time he was screaming about the crickets here because the county has going to craft an ordinance about large private parties with bands that get too noisy for the neighbors’ comfort level. Where is the outrage??
    When I read about the upcoming rally this morning, I said “this cannot possibly end well.” Heck, it was Boardman and a few others running over here the morning after the election calling us David Dukers. Then they cry about painting all Islamics or Snowflakes or Dems with a broad brush. So, being called a David Duker again is nothing new….not by a long shot.
    At least Punchy came close to expressing outrage over ISIS today. Close, but something that he remained silent on for months and months. Maybe someday he will express outrage on My Gal’s private loosely goosey e-mail server in the basement conducting the lion’s share of State business on and deleted 33,000 e-mails that were subpoenaed by Congress. Closest we will ever hear is “I did not vote for her.” But why? Because she is from a major party, on which you vowed never to vote for again after Obama let him down? No matter. Non of my beeswax.
    People just do not do what I want them to and I don’t do what they want me to. And that is a great thing.
    Once knew a guy who had a cat. He loved that cat like nothing I have ever seen. One day the cat died and he was devasted. He shared the sorrowful news to his roommate. The roommate just replied something like that is so sad and went about his business. The cat owner went ballistic and tossed his roommate out and railed about him for a week straight. I asked the man why he evicted his roommate (playing dumb) and the answer was classic. “Because he did not show enough grief and sorrow over the passing of his beloved cat.” I figured there is nothing to loose, so I replied that it is an unreasonable request to demand others feel the way you do about your cat. He never spoke to me again.
    It is an unreasonable request (or expectation) for others to feel exactly the way I do about Benghazi or demand that others express the same outrage over something another is outraged about. Guess we did not express a mirror image of what Paul was feeling at the time. Maybe some here were outraged, but did not express it in the right manner or not outraged at all. Each person’s feelings are their own and it’s a fool’s errand to argue with feelings.
    If there was ever a time for Punch-E to say his “I take your silence as agreeing with me”, today would have been the perfect time. Ah, heck. He woke up on the Trump rag….again. Slams what Trump said about something last night first thing out of the gate this morning AND then came back to slam (erroneously) what Trump did not say today. Or said it too late or we/he said it the wrong way or….or…or did not express enough of the right kind of justifiable anger and incredulous moral outrage the way he wanted us to. Darn, folks just don’t do what he wants them to do in the exact way he demands.
    An unreasonable demand. Boy, I can feel the frustration for here.

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36. 

    ScenesFromTheApocalypse

    12 August 2017

    re: BillT@5:48PM
    lol. You win the internet for the evening. Maybe GEOTUS can tweet something about the cat, it should smooth everything over with Paul.
    re: ToddJ@5:43PM
    “And having been to Berkeley and watched that “Antifa” start the violence, my guess it was they who started it in Virginee.”
    Not a bad bet, mostly because the activist Left has such an incredibly deep bench in street violence. They have both the organizational chops and the manpower to pull off those sorts of things. Up until now, I’d say that the more righteous Right consisted of people who are not only a bit too old for general friskiness in protests, but who have too much to lose to be particularly political. You can see the world changing as we speak.

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37. 

    ScenesFromTheApocalypse

    12 August 2017

    Excellent, it looks like one of the newswarriors is busy using twitter for important Duckspeak.
    https://archive.fo/WsEVY
    Thank God for archives. You know this’ll get taken down pretty quickly.
    I propose a new 1984 Newspeak term for the newswarrior memory hole, the ‘untwitter’.

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38. 

    rl crabb

    12 August 2017

    I guess you would have to have lived in the south to appreciate the legacy of slavery. I did, for three years, and I saw things I could never imagine here in the West. The current trend is not so much political correctness as history catching up to reality. Poor little ol’ Scarlett lost her Tara because of her wrong-headed politics, and if she rebuilt, she did it because she was lily white and had cheap negro labor enforced by Nathan Forest and the Klan. Even when I was there, ten years after desegregation, blacks had to be careful where they went and what they said. Can you blame them for not wanting to “honor” those who fought to keep their grandparents in chains?
    What is the difference between a dictator and a slave owner?
    As for the blow up in Virginia, both sides went there looking for a fight. Stoke the fire. Hate makes good kindling.

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39. 

    Walt

    12 August 2017

    Not a bit sure,, but the posts under that pic. say the “highlighted” person was the organizer. Imagine that Scenes.

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40. 

    Walt

    12 August 2017

    BTW Crabbman,, great toon in the rag today.

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41. 

    Walt

    12 August 2017

    Another way to look at this riot, so leave the monument out of this. This is Just a LIB on Progressive family squabble. Wait till Thanksgiving. Then watch the show.
    Who are the participants? KKK,(Ol’ Granddad) White supremacists( Socialist Cousins from Germany) Black lives matter,( kin from the city) ANTIFA.(Pissed because they are still at the kiddy table.)
    So no blaming Trump and the Right for this. It’s all Leftists, and leftist by-products.

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42. 

    ScenesFromTheApocalypse

    12 August 2017

    re: RL Crabb@6:51PM
    “Can you blame them for not wanting to “honor” those who fought to keep their grandparents in chains?”
    You have to be pretty old to have grandparents that were slaves.
    In any case, I get it. It’s not really about history, it isn’t about ‘context’, it isn’t about art, it’s about pleasing the current feelings of a politically important group. I don’t think that that’s an unimportant thing, just be honest about it.
    Maybe we could get the Israelis to tear down all the Roman constructions in their country, you could knock down gravestones from any invading army, just imagine the cultural cleanup you could do in the ex-British Empire. Heck, England itself is probably full of monuments that tick off the locals that have been imported from elsewhere. It’s all just part of a new way of thinking.

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43. 

    George Rebane

    12 August 2017

    Funny thing how others feel about such statues. I just returned from a couple of weeks driving around Estonia. There they still have to retain statues and memorials to the Red Army that in 1944 “liberated” Estonia and returned it to five decades of workers’ paradise which also included a number of mass executions and deportations about which the west has been silent. The statues and memorials are still there, stark reminders of the ongoing cost of peace – 300,000 Russians in a country of 1.3M can cause quite dust-up if you insult them, especially when their big brother is just across the border. And then there were the centuries of Russian domination of Estonians as serfs before that. I don’t have to ask how my distant relatives felt in a bygone era; members of our family were killed and we personally were hunted like game by the communist partisans. Nevertheless, I do appreciate an intellectual discussion about repression and all that.

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44. 

    Scott Obermuller

    12 August 2017

    “I guess you would have to have lived in the south to appreciate the legacy of slavery. I did, for three years, and I saw things I could never imagine here in the West.”
    So – more wrongs to right the old wrongs? How long does this go on, Bob? Eye for an eye?
    How many generations down the road have to ‘pay’ for something they had nothing to do with?
    Why do only some people get to go after anyone who has the same skin color as the person who decades ago may have harmed some one in their family.
    Living in the South for three years doesn’t qualify you to start your virtue signalling. If this stupidity keeps up, it will be mostly black and brown folks that will be harmed. If Crabb really cared, he’d go back to the deep south and spout his crap there. Go on, Bob – egg them on. More anger, more violence – that’s the way to fix things. While you sit there safely tucked away in Nevada County.

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45. 

    Todd Juvinall

    12 August 2017

    Three years is a wisp. I have friends that have lived there all their lives. Most of the big riots of the 60’s were in the North and middle and Watts! Segregation was not only a southern thing. But if one does not know history then RL is you eyes on the ground historian. It is not about “honoring” anyone. Each person seeing the statue can decide if they like it or not. The issue is historical fact. TRL represents America’s ISIS as all those bad visuals have to be cleansed so a person won’t have apoplexy when they see it. I reacll the left putting a crucifix is someone’s piss and calling it art and all of the Christians had to bear that. My guess is RL thought it was great. Everyone has a bias. But to ISIS our country and deny people the rigt to decide if something is good or bad is not right in a free society.

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46. 

    Bill Tozer

    12 August 2017

    The saying “I never owned slaves and you never picked cotton” comes to mind.
    Whenever a group of skinheads or some KKK group has its Infrequent little march or just as irregular gathering in some park, it’s always a flash point and usually the counter democtrators outnumber the Klan 10 to 1. That says a lot about our country.
    Everyone goes looking for a fight. This one was unusual because it was bigger and there was a death on the streets and two more from the sky. Usually a one day event, like it was today. Always inflames passions, which is exactly the point. No rioting in the streets for a week or so, no burning up the hood, no trashing the business district. Passes just as fast as it comes.
    Heck, if you need more of that good old Southerner bashing, CA State employees are already barred from traveling to NC on company time because of the transgender thang. If you were born female, use the ladies room. If you were born with a stem on the apple, use the men’s room. Boycott! Boycott the whole darn state. Most of us in the peanut gallery don’t make Charolette their vacation destination anyway.
    With that said, the above was just filler. From segregated dorms (black only) making a come back due to popular demand, to barring whites from campus identity groups, to across the Lefty political spectrum, it is not a one day event. Welcome to the world of Idenity Politics. Tribalism is here. Assimilation is out. Whatever bound us together as Americans, whatever glue that held us together in solidarity, is under assault. The words ‘community’ and ‘citizens’ used to be our common bond that made us all ‘Americans’ . Not no more. We are in deep doo-doo if we continue down this road where one cannot get pass one’s tribal Identity, one’s gender identify, one’s sexual identify, one’s ethnic Idenity. Those are just smaller parts of who I am, not who I am.
    If one’s tribal Idenity is seen as the whole as opposed to just one of the parts of the whole, then there will be no more ‘us’. It will be ‘us’ vs ‘them’ into perpetuity, no we. No Americans.
    http://politics.blog.ajc.com/2017/08/12/stacey-evans-gets-rocky-reception-at-netroots-conference/

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47. 

    ScenesFromTheApocalypse

    13 August 2017

    re: GeorgeR about Estonia
    “300,000 Russians in a country of 1.3M can cause quite dust-up if you insult them”
    Perhaps the borders are in the wrong place. Are there differences, by region, in what languages are primarily used?
    Personally, I’m rather in favor of monuments that honor individuals rather than brutalist lumps of stone oriented towards a principle. Wait long enough, and no one cares about the tribal angle to all of this, although Eastern Europeans seem to have abnormally long memories.
    A more general question. Did the Soviets tear down nationalist monuments during that last expansion of the Russian state?

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48. 

    ScenesFromTheApocalypse

    13 August 2017

    re: RL Crabb@2:12PM
    When I was done musing about people who had grandparents born in the late 1850’s, I was considering museums.
    For the sake of argument, let’s say we gather up all the heroic CSA monuments, replace them with 100’s of Martin Luther King statues (or the like) and decide what to do with them.
    The local Sons of the War of Northern Aggression, or whatever it’s called, would likely be happy to build a nice war museum, complete with plenty o’ artifacts, these statues, cannons, and whatnot. Some beautiful building would be built or bought.
    Fast forward two weeks, the protests start. Not allowed. It’s the hate museum. Mr. RL could wave his reedy fist at the symbol of southern evilry.
    I mean, burying an entire culture, it’s hard work man.

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49. 

    rl crabb

    13 August 2017

    Scotty, I have to laugh at someone who has the gall to lecture me on criticizing the south from California while you take potshots from Idaho.
    And George, your perception of what Estonians endure is a perfect living example of what I am talking about. Maybe black people’s grandparents don’t remember slavery, but they sure as hell remember George Wallace and Strom Thurmond, the hypocrite who hid his own black daughter to keep his racist cred in order. They surely recall Lester Maddox’s ax handles, which he sold as souvenirs at a little shop in Atlanta while he kept his day job as Lt. Governor.
    What responsibility do we have as the inheritors of past wrongs? To not perpetuate them into the future. If they take Cousin Jeff’s statue and put it into a museum along with the others who sought to keep a race they considered animals in bondage, fine by me.

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50. 

    Scott Obermuller

    13 August 2017

    Simple, Bob – you are safe and sound in one of the whitest counties in California while you encourage trouble in another part of the country that will only lead to more violence that will only lead to more injury and death for many, including blacks.
    I currently see now in our entire country ugly acts of violent racist hatred. Stop blaming this on the south. Washington owned slaves – do we tear down the Washington monument in DC? I asked you several pertinent questions which we note you cannot answer.
    Doesn’t matter where I live – I’m critisizing you and the other left wing trouble makers all over the country that engage in virtue signalling, and using the legacy of past wrongs by folks long dead to ‘get at’ folks you don’t like politically. How does any of this materially help the poor black children growing up in the south (or any where else) today?

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