Rebane's Ruminations
May 2017
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George Rebane

Before any serious discussion of America’s healthcare ensues, we must first come to grips with the answer to this question –

What right does any American have to draw on his neighbor’s pocketbook to pay for the repair of his health, the preservation of which he may or not have taken any prudent steps to safeguard?  (At this point we can cite the horrendous stats that describe the behaviors with which we Americans knowingly and willingly damage ourselves.  Take what you will, knowing that you, and not me, will pay the price.)

In this light Rebane Doctrine recommends the following (neither comprehensive nor sufficient) attributes for our healthcare industry.

  • Patients choose their own physicians and participate in their own medical decisions to the extent that they and/or their supporters can afford the care.
  • No one has the right to demand another to pay for his healthcare.
  • The spectrum of health professionals is expanded greatly to allow practitioners of all skill levels and training to participate in delivering health related services.
  • Tax policy is reformed to permit both private and institutional health savings accounts that belong to individuals and their designees – e.g. family healthcare account.
  • Tax policy supports the founding of non-profit healthcare service corporations (NPHSCs) for the poor that are owned and operated by for-profit companies.
  • FDA policies on drug acceptance greatly simplified, especially for the release of drugs and treatments for cases in which the standard of care provides no relief from certain death.
  • Health insurance can be sold as any other product that comes under the aegis of the Constitution’s ‘commerce clause’ (Art 1, Sec 8, Clause 3).
  • Catastrophic care will be provided by private charities or NPHSC’s where available. Where such care is not available, the federal government will provide for hospice care to alleviate end-of-life suffering.
Posted in , , ,

101 responses to “On Healthcare – one mo’ time”

  1. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    George, I don’t recall making a funeral expense question, Can you refresh me with a time reference? As far as ” We should do what we can without driving the country into a brick wall or worse.” Single payer is the way to go. The numbers are in. it is much more efficient than our mish mash of bloated corporate execs and fat preditor lawyers feeding off the scraps. Most national health systems do not allow malpractice lawsuits for example. Here’s a list of GNP rates of countries with naional health care. This chart will give you ag ood comparison with other modern countries all of which have national health care programs.
    http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/health-costs-how-the-us-compares-with-other-countries/

    Like

  2. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 956am++ – No NPSCs exist that I am aware of since I introduced the concept in 2009.
    http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2009/05/republicans-need-a-new-strategy.html
    You weren’t accused of making a funeral expense question; read more carefully. And your cost comparisons are both apples/oranges and incomplete since performance is not factored in. All single payer systems are not alike, and governments play with their budgets to assign healthcare related/supported costs to other sectors.
    Such comparisons, as by National Propaganda Radio, are specious per se. They admit that US is a “rich country”, yet dun us for the amount we spend on healthcare. As a rich country we probably also spend a lot more than others on such as infrastructure, national parks, sugary foods, law enforcement, education, … . This doesn’t say we necessarily spend such monies wisely, just that we can and do, since our system generates enough wealth to support the spending.

    Like

  3. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    PE 951
    Despite not answering any of my questions, you already did.

    Like

  4. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    I have no idea what you’re talking about Gregory

    Like

  5. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    So George until we have NPSCs then the first order of business to enact your health care system is to get them going. Any progress by Trump in that direction?

    Like

  6. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    PE
    Read your 951 then my 1040. Cut and paste if needed.

    Like

  7. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: Paul Emery | 31 May 2017 at 11:06 AM
    So George until we have NPSCs then the first order of business to enact your health care system is to get them going. Any progress by Trump in that direction?

    Honestly George I don’t know why you indulge Paul in these Matlock like antics that he enjoys so?

    Like

  8. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    George
    Currently we have around 40% of the US population on some form of Government insurance-Medicare, medicaid, Military Health Care. Under you’re plan would you keep those systems or change them?

    Like

  9. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 1106am – None, he doesn’t consult me on such matters 😉 Recall that the above post reflects my druthers on healthcare – no more, no less.

    Like

  10. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    OKay Let me try again Gregory do you have any health insurance and who provides it?

    Like

  11. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    I already provided you with an answer, Paul. Run with it,or not.
    Running with it might include going back and answering one or more of the questions I asked you.

    Like

  12. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Gregory
    Let me qualify my question to you. Do you have health insurance? Is it Private or Government insurance? No need to be specific just choose a category.

    Like

  13. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    I will ask myself that question Paul do you have health insurance? Yes I do-Government insurance-medicare ( you don’t have to answer that part (Medicare) . Easy answer

    Like

  14. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    Paul, that was asked by you last year, and I answered it. Is there some reason you want a new answer? What sort of one-two punch are you imagining?

    Like

  15. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: Gregory | 31 May 2017 at 11:52 AM
    What sort of one-two punch are you imagining?

    The one where he tricks the defendant into confessing on the stand just before the commercials from Metamucil, Colonial Penn term life insurance, and some flavor of walk in bath tub start rolling.
    A brief epilogue, next weeks preview, and a closing shot of the Quinn-Martin production logo follow.

    Like

  16. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    from Paul _ ” Single payer is the way to go. The numbers are in. it is much more efficient than our mish mash of bloated corporate execs and fat preditor lawyers feeding off the scraps. Most national health systems do not allow malpractice lawsuits for example.”
    Ah – now we’re getting somewhere. Paul claims Americans want nationalised health care. Do they know about the fact that they can’t sue for millions when the wrong leg is cut off? Do they know their waiting times for procedures will go up? A lot.
    Do they know there will be death panels? Are they told how much extra they’ll have to pay for deadbeats that refuse to work?
    No – I didn’t think so.
    Paul, you go tell Americans the facts about ‘free’ health care and it’s support will vanish.
    Paul is back to getting rid of ‘…bloated corporate execs and fat preditor lawyers…’ What? You mean if they went on a diet you’d be OK with them?
    And of course, the crowning glory of single payer – “The numbers are in.”
    Oh Paul, you’d better check those ‘numbers’.
    In Kali the cost is double the current budget.
    That’s the budget that even now isn’t sustainable.
    Govt run health care isn’t going to be efficient.
    Nothing the govt does is efficient. Yes, there are things we can do to streamline health care and lower costs. Turning it over to the govt isn’t one of those things.

    Like

  17. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: Scott Obermuller | 31 May 2017 at 12:18 PM
    And of course, the crowning glory of single payer – “The numbers are in.”
    Oh Paul, you’d better check those ‘numbers’.
    In Kali the cost is double the current budget.
    That’s the budget that even now isn’t sustainable.
    Govt run health care isn’t going to be efficient.
    Nothing the govt does is efficient. Yes, there are things we can do to streamline health care and lower costs. Turning it over to the govt isn’t one of those things.

    Yes…..and the Medicare that he references above…..already projected to go belly up. It won’t go in a huge mushroom cloud….they’ll just start stretching things out like you mention! Then they’ll start eliminating procedures……looks like the new knees that a former local newspaper man will need soon, well lets just hope he’s saved some money so he can fly to India to have them installed. There will likely be some type of “Death Panel” just like Sarah Palin mentioned for Odummy Care. The left knows these things are coming. They just need the recognition to come at a reasonable pace to allow time for the adjustment of expectations!
    The crime of it is that Paul will have probably shucked this mortal coil before he gets to see much in the way of changes.
    PS: Scott…your 30 May 2017 at 06:53 PM….first rate post!

    Like

  18. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Fish penned @ 12:28 pm
    “The crime of it is that Paul will have probably shucked this mortal coil…..”. Ah, poetry in motion. But, Fish, you fell into the trap. Busted. You really do want to see people die! You just handled Punchy more stuffing for his Strawman.
    All this talk about Healthcare is making me ill. Thanks to the last several posts, I now feel much better….and enlightened. All this time I thought Dr. Rebane has a hotline to the God-Emperor Trump. Apparently he claims not too. Or so he says. Learn something new everyday. Unless, of course, Dr. Rebane lied about his hotline to the Oval Office. Hmmm. I am not so sure. Wonder what Dr. Rebane is hiding? How many people will die because of this lie? The plot thickens.
    Its all Trump’s fault. He is throwing Momma off the train. He hates po folk.
    https://patriotpost.us/articles/49377
    It’s all Trump’s fault. The whole Affordable thang may crash and burn on his watch!!
    https://patriotpost.us/posts/49282
    Forget the article. I just liked the picture.
    https://patriotpost.us/articles/49343

    Like

  19. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    BT you missed a good one, cultural appropriation is a serious charge!
    https://patriotpost.us/memes/49378

    Like

  20. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    @ 1:02 pm
    Gregory, pleazze! I am trying to stay on topic (focused and disciplined), but good one nonetheless. I shall overlook your transgression (and mine) and remind the reader that my thoughts on the comedian’s prop just got posted in the proper place, aka, The Sandbox, for all the world to see.
    Good one Gregory. :). Now, back to the multitudes dying in the streets on a daily basis while inconvenienced passerbys impatiently wait for the meat wagon to haul the sorry caucuses away.

    Like

  21. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: Bill Tozer | 31 May 2017 at 12:59 PM
    “The crime of it is that Paul will have probably shucked this mortal coil…..”. Ah, poetry in motion. But, Fish, you fell into the trap. Busted. You really do want to see people die! You just handled Punchy more stuffing for his Strawman.

    Look around Bill……Punchy is surrounded for miles in all directions with straw with which to stuff full his rhetoric! He hardly needs any more from me!
    And no I don’t want to see people die…..I merely observe that he will likely go before his favorite government program does.

    Like

  22. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Fish, I really did not really think you want to see people die. Punchy threw that mud on Todd and Scott. I just ran with it with that mortal coil shucking stuff. I don’t want to see people die either. No thanks, I have seen enough. Better to read about it than witness it. Nah, strike that. I don’t actually want to watch people die, but some I will not miss. 🙂

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  23. George Rebane Avatar

    For the interested – the ‘single payer’ discussion can also continue under the next post ‘Single Payer Siren Song’.

    Like

  24. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Famous Dem activist and knowledable leader speaks. She wants old Democrats to die. Geeze, dying is just part of life.
    Money quotes:
    “The Democrats f*cked up so bad in their message, and how old [the leadership] is,” Cher said. “You’ve got to pray that old people die before young people can get involved with the party.”
    “The president is cheating and getting away with it, and using the White House to make money, and he’s going to take health care away from people, and people are going die. It’s outrageous,”
    This one sounds familiar. Sounds like….The Punch Drunk One. Music types are strange birds, I reckon.
    “Earlier this month, Cher compared Trump to a “mad King George III president,” called Republican House members “inhumane,” and predicted millions of people would die as a result of the recently-passed American Health Care Act.”
    Pssst, Music types. The Senate has not even considered the “recently-passed American Health Care Act” yet. Stupid is as stupid does.
    http://www.breitbart.com/big-hollywood/2017/05/19/cher-on-the-election-the-democrats-fucked-up-so-bad-in-their-message/

    Like

  25. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Okay crew. A good friend of mine adopted two brothers at a young age that have cystic fibrosis, a genetic disease of the lungs. She has received government assistance to raise the boys and they have had their medical needs taken care of by federal assistance They are now in their early 20’s. They have been informed that they will likely lose their medical coverage since they are over 21 and will likely not qualify for insurance because of pee-existing conditions if Obamacare is repealed. Do you believe it’s an appropriate use of “other peoples money” to assist those boys while growing up with their medical and caregiver neesds and what advise do you have for them if they cannot purchase insurance under Trump care. This is real stuff happening in our community.

    Like

  26. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Punchy:
    Trump said, as most all other legislators have said repeatedly, that preexisting conditions coverage will remain entact. Is that so hard to wrap your mind around?? Your operative word here is “if”. But since you feel so strongly about your friends of friends, by all means cut a check for the family as a token of putting your money where your mouth is. Then start a GoFundMe page and use any influence you have at the little radio station to raise community awareness (and good ole Yankee Dollars) and start one of those KVMR fundraisers for your friends of your friends. Think Globally, Act Locally and all that stuff. You can do it Punchy. No time to gab, get on it. We are all counting on you. Don’t be a miser either. Cut that family a big fat check. Lots of zeros on it. Be our example and make us proud or we are all going to die!
    Then run over to Dr. Rebane’s newest post and tell us how Single Payer will cure all ills.

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  27. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 508pm – If that ‘other people’s money’ is just laying around doing nothing and has no alternative value to its owners, we could consider using it to continue the boys’ health care coverage. However, if those same ‘other people’ had different goals and aspirations that the money was being saved for, then you’d have to talk to those other people to see if they would volunteer their funds for the afflicted you describe. Or would you suggest taking the money in any case at gunpoint?

    Like

  28. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    “They have been informed…”
    By whom?
    As Bill pointed out – what’s the problem with all of the millions of ‘compassionate’ Americans that Paul claims can hardly wait to spend thousands of dollars a month to help others?
    from Paul –
    crickets

    Like

  29. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    George these are lifelong conditions. To abandon people who have genetic illnesses to A life of begging for maintenance healthcare is cruel beyond my comprehension

    Like

  30. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: Paul Emery | 31 May 2017 at 07:20 PM
    So if we were to restrict government interference to those with lifelong genetic disorders that would be acceptable? We could do away with medicare….after all life is eventually fatal….palliative care only! ObamaCare….goes away and we throw it to the market?

    Like

  31. Don Bessee Avatar
    Don Bessee

    Po’ ol’ PE’s problem is that sanity has broken out in the country and socialism sucks. I hope madam liar liar pantsuits on fire keeps on her they all lost her entitled election tour. Great show of the leadership in demland.
    Bloomberg comes out and says the President is on the way to reelection. I did not see that one coming from the nanny state mayor. 😉

    Like

  32. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    Paul, one word… bullshit.
    The House bill as I understand it allows portability without a surcharge for existing conditions and folks with existing conditions who hadn’t been insured recently could still enroll with a hefty but still reasonable surcharge for a year or so.
    Please, enough with the fake news.

    Like

  33. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    So Gregory any speculation how much insurance could cost? The regular treatments for folks with that disorder are very expensive and involve hospitalization for three or four days at least a couple times a year. The treatments have increased the life expectancy for that affliction from less that ten years to low 50’s as long as they have regular treatments.
    What insurance company would take on covering such an affliction? Any ideas how free market health care would handle this condition?

    Like

  34. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: Paul Emery | 31 May 2017 at 09:22 PM
    Always asking…..never answering!
    You never disappoint.

    Like

  35. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Punchy @ 5:08 pm:
    And if bullfrogs could fly, they wouldn’t bump their rumps on a log.
    Oh Punchy, I just love your incredulous indignation, moral outrage, and justifiable disgust with us. Oh, please, lay it on thick and hit me with that rhythm stick.
    Kind of changes things when you put a face on it, eh? I do remember the same outcry and righteous outrage you went on and on about over Chris Stevens and those other three handsome faces that were neatly swept aside in the prime of their lives insome place called Benghazi.
    Who could ever forget how upset you were and carrying on so. Just ask the boys here. They all remember your justifiable anger and moral condemnation of tired Hillary going to bed, Obama hatching the story that those men died because of an internet video that did not go viral, and Honest Susan Rice from the UN carrying the water on all the Sunday shows 50 days before the election.
    Yep, it all changes when you put a face on it and it hits close to home. Funny how that works. Come to think about it, all I heard from you was crickets, “I did not vote for Hillary”, and nothing to see here.
    We remember.

    Like

  36. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    Paul, there is a will, there is a way. Some will always be in some sort of high risk pool, or an extension of medicaid.
    Or the House and Senate bills will go nowhere and Obamacare will continue to melt down, only without Dems in charge at the ready to pour Single Payer into place.

    Like

  37. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Gregory, hard to reason when the other party is running on fear. Fear: False evidence appearing real. But nice effort trying to comfort the unconsolable. It’s the thought that counts.
    https://www.facebook.com/lastamericapatriots/photos/a.235087906641439.1073741826.235086849974878/859431284207095/?type=3&theater
    That isn’t the same friend that Punchy took to the ER to remove a solitary tick, is it?? I certainly hope not.
    Back to we are all going to die.

    Like

  38. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Didn’t vote for Hillary bill Look out you’re starting to dribble

    Like

  39. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Paul, we all know you did not vote for Hillary. You have made that clear. Nobody is asking you to defend her. Nobody. What leaves me in bewilderment is that you withhold condemnation of one side (crickets) and condemn another side with abandon, mostly reckless abandon.
    We all know you did not vote for Obama the 2nd time around. What used to puzzle me is that you slammed Bush on every occassion possible with impunity, but withheld the same moral outrage for Obama when he pushed the envelop further than Bush. Silence on Obama spying on millions of American citizens, silence on Team Obama colluding with Russia, silence here, silence there, everywhere silence. Nobody is asking you to defend Obama. Just would be nice if once in a blue moon you would exhibit the same shock and horror for both sides. Otherwise you come off as a one trick pony, just another partisan hack which you apparently are, were, and always will be.
    Did your friend survive the harrowing experience of going to the ER to have a tick removed? It’s a jungle out there, Punchy.
    Stop the presses. Bush did it too! And McCain (whom you voted against) said this and that about Trump. It must be the gospel. He’s unhinged….McCain that is.
    Did notice that the House Intel Committee has subpoenaed 3 key players of the Obama Inner circle in the unmasking affair. Crickets. Nixon’s boys broke into an office. Obama’s crew was spying on a whole opposition campaign for months. Crickets. Bush did it too! Not.
    Not defend, just be an equal opportunity condemner. Use the two edged sword every so often. Might help with your credibility issues. Or, not.

    Like

  40. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: Bill Tozer | 01 June 2017 at 08:33 AM
    ……shhhhhhh…….don’t blow it for the “Green Libertarian™” If he loses his superhero cloak of impartiality we won’t take him seriously.

    Like

  41. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Bill the Dribbler
    Lets continue this discussion elsewhere. This post is about health care. What does Benghazi have to do with the topic at hand. You always do that, change the subject when cornered.

    Like

  42. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Lol! Yes, Punch Drunk One, I strayed off topic. Merely comparing your ” to abandon people who have genetic illnesses to A life of begging for maintenance healthcare is cruel beyond my comprehension.” with you response to abandoning our American citizens (one a life long Lefty) in Benghazi. One response is cruel beyond comprehension, the other is “I didn’t vote for Hillary.” But, of course I strayed off topic. I must be cornered. Gotta get up pretty early to get one over on you.
    Oh, who is kicking your friend’s two sons to the curb? Remember, we are still 100% under Obamacare and nothing has changed. But, if, if, if, what if?? Guess we will cross that bridge when we get there. Until then, your friends’ friends are under Obamacare, aka, The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. Patient protection and affordable! What more could you possibly want? Your friends are covered, all those guests of the Hospitality House are covered, everybody is covered. Sure, some refuse to sign up and get with the program, but there are always those types in every crowd. They will be dealt with later I reckon.
    Hopefully there will a smooth transition from Obamacare to whatever is next over a couple of years with much debate and transparency and preparation. No surprises is best. Tell you friend that she (assuming her gender is female, but you never know nowadays)….er…tell your friend that the US Senate had not even considered any health care bill to date, so nothing has changed that is not already the law of the land. Explain to her that until it passes both the Senate and the House of Representatives and is sitting on Trump’s desk, then signed by the President of the United States, nothing changes. That should help relieve her fears and fretting about all the “what ifs” and put an end to her stressing over hypothetical situations.
    So, how was that trip to the emergency room to remove the tick? I assume all went well. Bet it cost a fortune. BTW, nowadays the doctors and CDC say to pull out the tick yourself with a steady straight pull, put it in a plastic bag for the doc to identify (and its legs), then schedule an appointment to come in and get some antibiotics if necessary if a bullseye looking red rash appears in a couple of days or so. Boy, they don’t panic about ticks like they used to.
    Guess that is why they call it practicing medicine. Yesterday’s fire alarm is today’s yawner.

    Like

  43. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    The story behind the emergency room tick was to illustrate the bloated costs hospitals pass on to insurance companies for medical services. She was concerned about Lymes disease and went to the emergency room. It was on a Sunday and being a few years ago Yuba Docs was not open on Sundays. She had the tick removed and was at the emergency room for around two hours total. Being a school teacher she was covered by Blue Cross. when she got the bill passed on to Blue Cross it was for a whopping $1350. That expense was paid by insurance but what a rip off. Bloated profits for the hospitals and insurance which probably got a cut on the deal.
    A couple years ago I had a tick bite and went to Yuba Docs. Total cost $165. End of story. No wonder insurance is so expensive.

    Like

  44. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    By the way Bill as a boxer I would have won my last fight but the referee stepped on my hand.

    Like

  45. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: Paul Emery | 01 June 2017 at 01:40 PM
    Bloated profits for the hospitals and insurance which probably got a cut on the deal.

    Actually…..the excessive costs are more to cover freeloaders who go to the ER and then skip out on the bill.

    Like

  46. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    That’s what happens when there is no universal healthcare insurance.
    How come Yuba Docs doesn’t charge that?
    I appreciate the bad position the hospitals are in on this situation. What are they supposed to do when someone is dropped off with a broken leg or a heart attack?
    This is a conversation we should be having Fish

    Like

  47. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: Paul Emery | 01 June 2017 at 02:09 PM
    This is a conversation we should be having Fish

    Why?
    The discussion will always come back around to you insisting on a top down, government administered single payer health care system. You will accept nothing less and can see no other option. Health care costs started spiking, not coincidentally, when the government insinuated itself into the mix. Used to be able to have a baby in a modern hospital and pay for it with two weeks wages. Now after 75 years of government health it costs 80K and that’s if nothing goes wrong.
    Why doesn’t Yuba Docs charge that…..probably because they’ve minimized the receipt of government money for the work they do. No gov money…no gov hoops to jump through. Cut their paperwork and reporting burden by 90%.
    That’s just a guess though….why don’t you ask them Paul?

    Like

  48. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    Paul, you’re not having a conversation with anyone, just the usual jabbing and punching.
    A couple years ago I had a tick bite me. I removed the tick, swabbed the area with betadyne, watched for the tell tale sign of a Lyme infection over the next few days. Cost was virtually zero.
    Yubadocs doesn’t charge $1k plus because an ER doc isn’t sitting there ready for an ambulance to drive up with a couple of gunshot victims or a heart attack victim, or drug overdose, or …. ER… meaning Emergency Room. Don’t go unless its an emergency.

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  49. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    This happened several years ago and at that time the word was have it taken out and take some pills. The story just illustrates one example of Emergency Room healthcare as recommended by Mitt Romney four years ago.

    Like

  50. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    Don’t go blaming going to the ER or YubaDocs to pull a nasty tick from the skin on po’ old Mitt, Paul.
    Just wondering… I gather you’ve been a Mediscare recipient for the better part of a decade now.nFrom the time you left your parent’s home until the time you got your own Medicare card, how many years did you go naked… no catastrophic coverage?

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