Rebane's Ruminations
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[Last night the various factions of the local MMJ stakeholders held a townhall gathering in the historic Nevada Theater.  It was moderated by Pascale Fusshoeller of Yubanet.com and broadcast live on KVMR.  Jo Ann and I were in attendance in the packed hall.  The on onstage panel of five made lengthy opening statements after which they answered questions from the audience.  I personally laud the efforts that our MMJ proponents are making to understand the comprehensive MMJ vs RMJ issue and work with the Nevada County Board of Supervisors to arrive at an acceptable ordinance that defines the kind of permissible MMJ grows and the distribution of the product.

One of the panelists was Ms Patricia Smith president of the local chapter of Americans for Safe Access and a longtime contributor to these pages.  She has kindly submitted the following piece covering last nightโ€™s proceedings to inform RR readers of the progress toward the new ordinance.  gjr]

Patricia Smith

The Town Hall meeting at the Nevada Theatre was convened to showcase the differences between the approaches that the Stakeholders have recommended from those that the County have proposed in their Interim Ordinance.  To listen to the entire discussion, log onto KVMR at http://archive.kvmr.org.  Scroll to June 18th, 6:00pm.

All five Stakeholder members of the Advocacy side were on the panel, none of the County's representatives agreed to appear.  I can understand them not wanting to go into the "lion's den," but they should have the courage of their convictions to defend their proposals to the public.

At issue is how the County will respond to the vote of the people.  So far, they are still behaving as if they know what is best for the citizens of Nevada County.  Making decisions for the County is exactly what the Supervisors were elected to do, however, they forfeited that right when, through their own arrogance, they insisted on putting Measure W on the ballot to cement the ban into law. 

They lost.


Two schools of thought were presented last night, the collective vs the commercial model.  Patient advocates like myself and Forrest Hurd, argue for Collectives that are the heart of the MMJ program.  (The County's proposed ordinances bans collectives.)  Collective's grow for individual patients who may live in residential neighborhoods, convalescent homes, apartments, or retirement communities.  In short, anyone who can't grow for themselves.  These transactions are often free or at cost,

Commercial growers on the other hand distribute their products to dispensaries who sell them to patients in the city that cannot grow their own medicine.  They pay taxes, and many are asking the County to issue them permits so they can join in the State MMRSA program.  These transactions are "for-profit" in that the grower is reimbursed for his time, expenses, and salary.

Cal Growers argue that permits are the best tool to address the concerns about cannabis cultivation. Growers are more likely to follow the guidelines when they know their future is secure.  They will invest in a licensed electrician to install proper wiring and panels rather than run an extension cord outside over dry grass to reach the garden area.  But if they feel their operation can be shut down at any minute, they will take the cheapest route possible to make as much money in the shortest amount of time which puts us all in danger.

The growers also point out that their recommendations mitigate environmental dangers by mandating all sites must get inspected by regulatory agencies before they get a permit.  There is no oversight in the County's guidelines.

The County is still coming from a ban/eradicate mentality.  They are imposing gated community standards on the entire county by declaring anything more than one plant an acre is a nuisance.  (20 plants on 20 acres is their maximum allowance.)  Property rights advocates will be appalled at the fine structure they are planning to implement come January.  If they follow Yuba County's lead, a thirty plant garden that doesn't meet their standards could be penalized over $100,000.  Don't pay and they will lien your property.

The County passed an Urgency measure on Jan 12 that banned all outdoor cultivation, but everyone – including people in R-1 zones, could grow 12 plants indoors.  Their new and improved ordinance now bans BOTH indoor and Outdoor cultivation in R-1, R-2, and R-3 zones.  You have to live on a parcel larger than 10 acres to grow on Res-Ag land and 5 acres or more to grow outdoors on AG land!!

People are more restricted from growing now than they were under Measure W.  Does this sound like they have overturned the ban or double-downed despite their losses?

[21jul16 update]  To bring Ms Smith's above commentary to a natural conclusion, I am including the just released NC BoS final draft for the new MMJ ordinance – Download Ncrp MJ Ordinance – July 2016-FINAL (second submission) – and the suggested response of the Nevada County Republican Women Federated to the Board of Supervisors.  The BoS will meet on 26 July next to codify the ordinance.

A group of Yes on W proponents who supported the outdoor marijuana ban, have reviewed the Board of Supervisorโ€™s draft of the urgency medical marijuana ordinance which will  be voted on at Tuesdayโ€™s July 26th Supervisorโ€™s meeting.  As you have seen in the media the medical marijuana proponents have very high expectations for big grows.  Also keep in mind that Measure W (to keep the outdoor ban) passed in Districts 2, 3 and 4 and defeated in Districts 1 and 5.  

Please review these suggested changes or additions.  And please email your supervisor in support of their draft version with these changes.  The supervisorโ€™s draft version sent to the growers is attached for your information.

The changes or additions to the Supervisorโ€™s draft version recommended by the review committee are as follows:

  1. Leave the school setback at 1,000 feet as in the original ordinance instead of reducing it to 600 feet.
  1. Cultivation should not be permitted anywhere except in RA , AG, AE and TPZ zones and should be a maximum of 12 plants. If the purpose is to serve LOCAL medical marijuana needs this number of plants should be sufficient.  Note here:  The defeated Measure S requested a 12 plant maximum.  There is a 6 plant maximum for medical marijuana in Colorado.
  1. All grower group proposals would trigger CEQA (California Environmental Quality   

     Act) and in some circumstances a 20 plant maximum could also trigger CEQA.

     (environmental reviews for noise, air quality, traffic, etc.).

  1. A permit fee of $5,000 is recommended per patient with a doctorโ€™s recommendation

     (Fresno County charges $5,000.)  The fee system should cover 100% of all costs

     associated with this program with no burdens on taxpayers.

  1. Immediate abatement for grows with no permits
  1. Expedited abatement for out of compliance grows with permits.
  1. Growers without permits and with gross violations would trigger a 5 year restriction   

     on obtaining permits.

  1. Fines and penalties should be established at $1,000 per plant per day to begin

     immediately and accumulate if a hearing is allowed.

Posted in , ,

88 responses to “Medical Marijuana Advocates hold Townhall (updated 21jul16)”

  1. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    “The growers also point out that their recommendations mitigate environmental dangers by mandating all sites must get inspected by regulatory agencies before they get a permit. There is no oversight in the County’s guidelines.”
    Kinda on topic regarding just the above quote above. shortly after CA passed a slew of laws banning/restricting properties in chemicals, solvents, paints, rat poison, ad infinitum, I helped a buddy build a log cabin. Then came time to buy the stuff to seal the exterior surfaces. The best stuff on the market at the time was made in Sweden and banned in CA, so off to Reno we went. Told a local and he asked why do that, you can buy it locally. Sure enough, the banned stuff was sold in Nevada County.
    Another elderly retired engineer had a problem with gophers. He had a Chronicle article about this wax based gopher poison and asked if I could find him some on my travels.. Frisco was spending over 100k/year just on trying to get rid pof gophers in some parks, to no avail….until they used the miracle stuff and it was cheap! This stuff also got banned. Sure enough, I found a place locally that had it and then another place….for a few years after.
    Moral of the story. The State passed the law. The law said enforcement was thrown on the counties’ environmental health and regulatory ingredient inspection departments (or whatever those county departments were called). Nevada County had no department to do the enforcement, aka “There is no oversight in the County’s guidelines”.
    That is cool beans for some who have a stake in the topic of the post. ๐Ÿ™‚

    Like

  2. Arther Williams Avatar
    Arther Williams

    The voters of Nevada County have spoken, loudly, at the ballot box. By a 60-40 margin. And still, the bos (I refuse to capitalize these three letters) believes that they still do not have to abide by their constituents dictations. Who runs this county? The citizens? Or a group of gray haired, feeble of mind, reprehensible obstructionists? Who pays these relics of “The War On Drugs”? The citizens? Or the sheriff?
    Everyone on this site (RR) seems to love to denigrate RS for her comments regarding the Dallas incident, yet I hear of not a single word of complaint against the elected tyrants that are Hell bent on enforcing their rejected ideology on the good citizens of Nevada County. The proposed stipulations of the interim ordinance by the bos regarding MEDICINAL cannabis is an affront equal to, or above, the remarks made by RS, regarding LE, to every single citizen, and more so, to every property owner in Nevada County.
    Hippocrits. All. Demand the same amount of respect for yourselves as you demand for your Tax Payer paid LE public servants. And demand that your elected servants know that they are just that… Public Servants. Demand recalls and file class action lawsuits against every elected public servant that supports further obfuscation of the defeat of measure w.

    Like

  3. George Rebane Avatar

    Administrivia – Have no idea who this ‘Arther Williams’ is, but he will be history with next off topic ad hominem he posts. I spent too much time purging his comments and the comments of the regular RR commenters whom he suckered into trading his kind of shit comments. I’m a bit ashamed of you regular readers for falling for this kind of crap. Can you not see that all he’s doing is denigrating these comment streams, and you guys are helping him with your oh so clever responses. Grow up!

    Like

  4. Patricia Smith Avatar

    George, thank you for posting my summary of the Town Hall. As I surmised, it has largely been met with crickets. Oh well, we try to inform…
    BTW, I feel the post from Arthur Williams is overstated, but not more so than some other opinions I see on RR.

    Like

  5. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    “Making decisions for the County is exactly what the Supervisors were elected to do, however, they forfeited that right when, through their own arrogance, they insisted on putting Measure W on the ballot to cement the ban into law.”
    Sorry Pat, but they’re still the Supervisors… there was no provision of W that stated they’d recuse themselves on future MMJ issues, and there isn’t much arrogance involved with putting decisions to a vote of the people. Arrogance is doing it without consent of the governed.
    A great deal of the lopsided W vote was the finding of a cute kid with a tragic illness to be the poster child for pot growers and the insanity of no outdoor grows, the latter being (Imo) a lazy way to make aerial spotting missions easier.
    George… the “Arther” sock smells to me like a certain hard left former Frisco schoolteacher upset by his small pension, now living in a North San Juan compound, who is known to make and discard socks at will.

    Like

  6. Bonnie McGuire Avatar

    Several years ago a county ordinance-law enforcer told me that just about everything is against the law. They didn’t really didn’t care unless someone complained. I couldn’t help but laugh at how far we’ve come with “there outa be a law.”

    Like

  7. George Rebane Avatar

    Administrivia – I draw your kind attention to the draft of the new MMJ ordinance and a Republican response to it in the 21jul16 update to this post.

    Like

  8. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    A permit fee of $5k is absolutely ludicrous, obviously intended as a barrier. If they had $5k laying around they’d likely buy at a dispensary.
    $100 is more like it.

    Like

  9. Jon Dozer Avatar
    Jon Dozer

    ie, the Republican Women suggestions are DOA.

    Like

  10. BradC Avatar
    BradC

    I went to the KVMR archive to listen to the podcast but it was pretty messed up. BTW- the date in Dr. R’s post should read July 18th in case it is not obvious to everyone. There seem to be major chunks of the townhall podcast segments missing from the podcast archive based on the times and durations of the podcast segments.
    I still have not figured out who, beside the ASA, the “stakeholders” are and what businesses or organizations they represent. Where are their bios posted with resumes indicating their qualifications as stakeholders?
    The Republican Women are still doing their darndest to make it as difficult as possible for MMJ patients and growers with their inane recommendations such as the 1000 ft. bus stop exclusion zones and $5,000 per caregiver/grower fees.
    The (Item 2) 12-plant maximum doesn’t square with (Item 3) 20-plant maximum.

    Like

  11. George Rebane Avatar

    BradC 757am – the date is correct and should be obvious to all since the townhall was on 18 July and my post was on 19 July, hence my use of the words “Last night …”
    Please call Paul Emery at KVMR to handle the podcast problem.

    Like

  12. Jon Dozer Avatar
    Jon Dozer

    Brad, that’s the result of the Republican Women demographics- their denial about the reality of cannabis in 2016 vs. what they were taught in 1958. They are of the rapidly disappearing Reefer Madness mindset.

    Like

  13. Gail Kraus Avatar
    Gail Kraus

    It is not true that “Measure W (to keep the outdoor ban) passed in Districts 2, 3 and 4 and defeated in Districts 1 and 5.” as stated above by Nevada County Republican Women Federated.
    It only passed in District 2 by 3.5%: From http://yubanet.com/regional/Post-W—facts-and-figures.php
    District 1, which includes Nevada City, rejects Measure W by 6,959 to 4,299 votes or 62% to 38%.
    District 2, which includes Lake of the Pines, votes in favor of Measure W by 4,751 to 4,422 votes or 51.79% to 48.21%.
    District 3, centered around Grass Valley, rejects Measure W by 4,515 to 2,872 votes or 61.12% to 38.88%.
    District 4, which includes Penn Valley and North San Juan, rejects Measure W by 5,893 to 3,994 votes or 59.60% to 40.40%.
    District 5, the eastern portion of the county and Truckee, rejects Measure W by 4,507 to 2,150 votes or 68% to 32%.

    Like

  14. Jon Dozer Avatar
    Jon Dozer

    Mssrs. Miller and Weston will have interesting re-elections, depending on the outcome here and on several other issues in the coming months.
    If one of them loses to a more progressive voice, and that’s a very real possibility now, we have a totally different governing body.

    Like

  15. Gail Kraus Avatar
    Gail Kraus

    So, Nevada County Republican Women Federated, when you say to “keep in mind that Measure W (to keep the outdoor ban) passed in Districts 2, 3 and 4 and defeated in Districts 1 and 5. “,are you saying that since “you” won in these areas that you should be heard and your “changes or additions to the Supervisorโ€™s draft” should have more weight in being considered by the Supervisors?
    So,being defenders of democracy, now seeing the real numbers will you support the growers?

    Like

  16. Jon Dozer Avatar
    Jon Dozer

    LOL. Gail, no need to worry about the Repubby Women. Its a hobby for them.

    Like

  17. Jon Dozer Avatar
    Jon Dozer

    that being said, there remains this old myth that Districts 3 and 4 are conservative bastions.
    Seems only Mr. Scofield down there in sleepy District 2 can safely count on being re-elected for life, should he so choose. Those folks in LOP and Alta Sierra don’t want to upset the apple cart. None of those bad elements like in the other districts…

    Like

  18. Patricia Smith Avatar

    No matter your feelings about MMJ, everyone should be upset that the BoS are NOT honoring the vote of the people. They lost yet they are proceeding as if the County voted to uphold Measure W. I saw some comments thinking a $5,000 permit was excessive, but did you check out the fines!
    Code violations for electrical or plumbing can rise to $1,000 a day. Fines for growing start at $100/per plant, per day and go up to $500/per plant per day. This wouldn’t be so bad if they put out an ordinance that can be followed. Their intent is to fine everyone out of existence regardless of the vote. (The setbacks from property lines overlap, so you really can’t grow ANYWHERE.)
    I guess it comes down to what kind of government we want. One that placs THEIR desires before the peiople (we know what is best for you) or one that listens to their constituents.
    Gregory, July 21 1:24 This isn’t a “future” MMJ issue. This is directly tied to Measure W that was defeated by 20 points. They have a moral obligation to rescind the ban. Instead more people are banned now than before we voted. People who were upset at their sneaky process before should be furious now,

    Like

  19. Patricia Smith Avatar

    Jeeze Louise! I just reread the Women’s Repblican Federated suggestions on MMJ. I thought they were usually more factual, but they got so much wrong in their email. First, Measure W only passed in Dist 2, it failed in all 4 other districts by wide margins so I guess that means our suggestions should carry more weight? If W had passed, would we even be having a conversation?
    Also, they said the failed Measure S had a 12 plant limit. I think they need to do some homework. I have offered to come address their organization to discuss possible solutions we could work on together, but they have not responded.

    Like

  20. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    No Patricia, Measure W failing does not mean an Anti-W has effectively passed. The BoS remains in control of the county, not you.

    Like

  21. Jon Dozer Avatar
    Jon Dozer

    Of course, they make the decisions. So best wishes with that anti-democratic Drumpfian style “control”, as it will lead to Districts 3 and 4 changing hands at the next election cycle! That’s fine.

    Like

  22. Jon Dozer Avatar
    Jon Dozer

    Patricia 9:16pm, no worries. As I said, there is no discussion possible. They still follow the teachings of Reefer Madness and mom and dad’s lectures. Its the Devil Weed.

    Like

  23. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    “We take drugs seriously at our house.”-Firesign Theater
    One does not need to have a Reefer Madness mentality to think an expansion of growing activity may well have serious ramifications for the greater community.

    Like

  24. BradC Avatar
    BradC

    The Reefer Madness believers are going go be pissed at the “No duty to enforce” clause,
    “Enforcing the ordinance is a choice, not a duty
    The ordinanceโ€™s last section, rarely mentioned, gives prosecutorial discretion to the county. In plain English, an enforcing officer has the choice to enforce any or all provisions of the ordinance. Section G-IV 5.19 reads:
    No Duty to Enforce
    Nothing in this Article shall be construed as imposing on the Enforcing Officer or the County of Nevada any duty to issue a Notice to Abate Unlawful Marijuana Cultivation, nor to abate any unlawful Marijuana Cultivation, nor to take any other action with regard to any unlawful Marijuana Cultivation, and neither the Enforcing Officer nor the County shall be held liable for failure to issue an order to abate any unlawful Marijuana Cultivation, nor for failure to abate any unlawful Marijuana Cultivation, nor for failure to take any other action with regard to any unlawful Marijuana Cultivation.”
    http://yubanet.com/m/proposed-after-w-ordinance-text-released/
    This clause make the most sense to me. Most people are low-key and respectful and are not a problem, but having a restrictively written ordinance allows LE to crack down on low-life, greed-head carpetbaggers who come up here to, hopefully, make a killing. Of course, depending upon who we have enforcing the law, it could either work out well, or become a nightmare for everyone.
    This draft ordinance seems to be designed to account for commercial growing (when legalized) although, currently, the plant counts are way too low, especially for acreages over 20 acres.

    Like

  25. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Brad C,
    As you mentioned, Law Enforcement does not pass the laws, but they can exercise discretion in enforcing the laws on the books. Just look at the FBI findings into Hillary’s violations of Federal Law for a recent good example.
    This momenteum to cuddle up to Commercial grows is what concerns me. However this turns out, seems to me Commerical grows and Commerical growers are applying undue pressure on something yet to be “legalized”. It’s our county, and laws should be crafted to regulate and enforce any operation, be it a nudie bar or a Commerical grow. If we are going to stifle local businesses with excess regulations, codes, and enforcement, I feel Commerical grows should be under the same scrutiny as any other for profit business, if for not other reason than to be fair to all. Government should not be in the business of picking winners and losers. You gotta pay to play. Just my two cents, so take it for what it is worth.
    All in all, it is still a work in progress and I am in the peanut gallery watching it unfold. Starting a business is not cheap and just because one wants to start a business, does not mean they can afford to. This is not growing cabbages we are talking about. Nobody rips off cabbage gardens nor does growing cabbages or radishes evoke images of wads of greenies and Bling. I am more concerned about the corruption angle, which is why I have this uneasy feeling when it all starts pointing more and more to Commerical grows, rather than Grannie growing her Mother’s Little Helper or the local patient.

    Like

  26. Gail Kraus Avatar
    Gail Kraus

    Gregory, are you saying the 70,000 election meant nothing?

    Like

  27. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Gail, I cannot speak for Gregory or you or anyone else, but what the No of W meant to me was “do not set the current ordinance in stone. You may include any and all guidelines in that. That was what the Measure said, if I read the black on the Measure, not the white between the lettering. No on W meant do not set the current in stone…Nothing more nothing less. But, I could be wrong. I just read what it said. I did not read about any timetables or mechanisms to address the current ordinance, but I have been wrong before…. More than I care to mention..
    Please correct me on the wording of Measure W. I an open to learn something new everyday. Just like I did not read anything in the current state law addressing recreational use of marijuana, but, again, I could be sadly mistaken. Thankyou.

    Like

  28. George Rebane Avatar

    re BillT 1026am – I believe Mr Tozer is correct. I and others who voted ‘no on W’ simply did not want the MMJ ordinance to be set in stone. We did not express any other preference save that the BoS should be free to pass and modify MJ ordinances as the legal environment changes and as we learn best practices from across the country.

    Like

  29. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    GeorgeR at 10:32. That was my gig too.

    Like

  30. Gail Kraus Avatar
    Gail Kraus

    Too bad we cant tell who voted to lift the ban, and who voted to keep the ban flexible.
    Question: If one has a 6 acre rectangular property (2×3 acres)
    and there is a 200 ft setback,
    and “A square enclosing one acre is approximately 69.57 yards, or 208 feet 9 inches (63.63 metres) on a side.” (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acre)
    then that leaves a strip 17 feet 6 inches wide, 208 feet 9 inches long, smack dab in the center of the parcel available?
    Is this correct?
    What if your house is there?
    What if the parcel is circular and 5.1 acres?
    Any takers?

    Like

  31. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    Measure W being rejected meant Measure W was rejected. Nothing more, nothing less.
    Let me put it this way… If Gavin Newsom’s “Safety for All” fails this fall, it does not forbid him from trying something similar next year nor does it forbid the legislature from doing the same.
    The only thing that can stop that in its tracks are three or four new Scalias on the SCOTUS.

    Like

  32. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    I personally voted to make life harder for the violent psychopathic grower in my neighborhood… everyday life is better during their incarcerations.

    Like

  33. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    I live on AG and if I chose to grow, I still can’t touch the adjoining little 11 acre piece I bought solely to have control over who lives on one side…… like nobody, thank you very much. I have one neighbor on the other side, but he is terrified I might shoot him or something so he lays real low and causes me no grief. We have an understanding since that talk and we left as good friends.
    Still, no growing on vacant (raw) parcels. We must be good law abiding citizen neighbors and follow the rules. You gotta pay to play. With those worthless words aside…..what really pricked my curiosity is Gail’s question posed.
    “What if the parcel is circular and 5.1 acres?
    Geeze Gail, I never have seen a circular parcel. I have seen ones kinda oblong, ones that kinda look like Monopoly houses, old mining claims that were spilt into parcels 60′ wide and a zillion miles long, parcels longer on one side than the other, wider at the bottom than top, parallelograms, huge ranches split into parcels on paper with diagonal lines all over the place, landlocked parcels with no easements for ingress, egress…..but, Shoot Howdy Gail, a circular parcel? I am having difficulty wrapping my mind around that one. Need more infor concerning a hula hoop looking 5.1 acre parcel.
    If it is any help, I have seen a round house on a square parcel more than once. I need more details before taking a stab at it.
    Thank you.

    Like

  34. Arther Williams Avatar
    Arther Williams

    You also voted to make life harder for every legitimate patient, Gregory. And every Granny that wants her tinctures and poultices. There are many…
    And concerning Gail`s last statement, does anyone wish to respond to her assertion that due to the setbacks, property line versus dwelling, that this interim “agreement” in nothing more than a de-facto ban?

    Like

  35. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    “Arther”, how many stoners and defacto commercial growers are there for every “legitimate” patient?

    Like

  36. George Rebane Avatar

    GailK 1222pm – I agree that the BoS new draft is not very forthcoming and I don’t know why they are doing that. But if someone has a 6+ acre parcel appropriately remote from other residences, there is nothing preventing the BoS from granting a variance given that the other conditions of the ordinance are met.
    BTW, I’m not too familiar with 200ft long houses of the kind that would prevent MMJ grows that you cited.

    Like

  37. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    Why not have background checks for growers? No domestic violence, negligent or drunk driving, etc etc. No opioid abuse or trafficking.

    Like

  38. Gail Kraus Avatar
    Gail Kraus

    GeorgeR 3:02pm- Touche, silly me, I could just as easily have said driveway, and avoided all long house questions.

    Like

  39. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    Gregory, how about receipts for the sale or trade of medicinal pot?

    Like

  40. Arther Williams Avatar
    Arther Williams

    Way too many stoners vs legitimate patients, Gregory. Way too many. I am not in favor of commercial grows in any form, way, shape or size. I just honestly believe that any person who owns property outside of city limits should be able to do what he wants to do with it. I own land on RA zoned land… with not a single neighbor in opposition to what I grow, no matter which plant I plant.
    There are thousands in Nevada County that wish to grow only for themselves. All we want is our six plants per person, nothing more. Six plants gives me just enough condensed medicine to make it through the year, and I have acquired my medicine in an economically feasible fashion, with no co-pay, no deductibles, and no side effects.

    Like

  41. Arther Williams Avatar
    Arther Williams

    I am surrounded by wineries, which produce grapes, which are fermented, becoming alcohol, which is consumed by thousands of visitors, each and every month. How many of these thousands commit that silly little nuisance of driving away from said wineries while inebriated?
    Why not label all visitors to wineries as “Drunks”, “Winos”. “Wife Beaters”, “Criminals” etc..? This is what is perpetuated against all legitimate patients, when we are referred to as “Stoners”, Hippies”, “Drug Dealers” and the like. We are not your “Boogie Man”, we are your neighbors, your cousins, your nephews and nieces. We have grand children and great grand children. We hold jobs, we pay taxes and WE VOTE!
    This is who we are, not who Harry Anslinger and our elected officials told you who we are. We are NOT criminals. We are Americans. Allow us the pursuit of peace and happiness.

    Like

  42. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    I am actually for a complete relegalization of cannabis and cannabis products, back to the days where it was nobody’s business but their own, but not just for Nevada County, which I see as debilitating to our community with far too many sleazoid slackers mostly trying to make an easy buck with the annual influx of Trimmigrants who wipe out the local food pantries despite having a wad of cash in their pockets.
    I’ve talked to parents who moved here expecting great schools and healthy communities, only to find mostly mediocre schools whose attractive test scores are mostly due to the lack or English Language Learners, and pot flowing easily amongst the kiddies.

    Like

  43. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Ah, timing is everything. Went to town and ran into a small time grower I haven’t seen in years. He asked me exactly the same thing we are discussing here. He said he heard 18 plants for his 10.1 acres. I told him this:
    It’s still a work in progress. Told him I heard its 18 max, and that includes indoor, starters, and outdoors combined, but it looks like more and more like zoning is King. Told him it looks like no more cul-de-sac grows, 1.5 acre grows, etc. I repeated to him it is still a work in progress and just wait and see how it all pans out. He was good with that. A lot of folks are not following the issue closely, and count me among them. Everything I know in life I read on Dr. Rebane’s 5 Star provocative site. ๐Ÿ™‚
    I do admit that the setbacks are confusing. So many hundred feet from the property line, so many feet from the humble abode, so many feet from a neighbor’s humble abode, and so forth. Now, if one lives on top of a river gorge, for example, it does not matter if you have 6 or 8 or 12 or 15 acres. That is all just buffer land and all the neighbor’s houses along with your miner’s shack are all situated close together on that one flat spot on top of the gorge. It does get confusing or challenging for those in that situation.
    best comment I have read concerning this whole sheebang last year or the year before. “Those that have been growing here for 40 years illegally will keep on growing, legal or not.”
    Now, I gotta figure out something just out of curiosity. My parcel is zoned A. That’s it, just the single letter A. Seems old school to me. Like its missing the G or E or timber or mining or something, but I will research that one of these years, but not this year.
    The situation is still fluid so my guess is as good as yours concerning the details. Wait and see, but it’s fun to peek.

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  44. Arther Williams Avatar
    Arther Williams

    First I’ll explain how no grows on a 2 acre parcel would ever be in compliance with the ordinance, even though the ordinance seems to permit grows on these parcels:
    The Impossible Scenario
    The setback for a 2 acre parcel is 150 feet. In order for one to legally grow, the distance from the outer boundary of their grow space must be at least 150 feet from all property lines. We will examine this with a hypothetical parcel. We will start off with a square. A square is the shape that allows the property lines to be the maximum distance apart. If you try to lengthen the distance between two property lines and keep the area (the acreage) unchanged at 2 acres, you must shorten the distance between the other two property lines. A square parcel is thus the ideal condition; the best case scenario for compliance with the county’s ordinance.
    We can find the length of each line of a square using the formula: Length (L) = Square root of the Area (A), or L = rootA. For our 2 acre parcel, we will convert the acres to square feet, so A= 87120 square feet. Take the square root of that, and L = 295.16. That is the length of 1 side of the square, and thus is also the distance between two parallel property lines on our parcel.
    The setback distance is 150 feet, so if we want to grow, our grow space must be 150 feet from all property lines. The midway point between the two parallel property lines is L / 2, or 295.16 / 2, which comes out to 147.58 feet. Now, we have to be 150 feet away from both property lines (all 4 actually), but we cannot be, because the setback limit is 150 feet. If we are 150 feet from one line, it will put us within 145.11 feet of the other line. Also, since this is a square, midpoints from both sets of parallel lines put us directly in the center.
    Ok, you’re thinking, this is a square parcel you’re talking about, but in reality there are no square parcels, they’re mostly rectangular or rhombus shaped. Well, in a rectangle, two of the lines will be even closer together than our 147.58 feet in the ideal condition, even though two of the lines will be farther apart, so at no point between those two lines will compliance be possible. Same with a rhombus-shaped parcel. A parallelogram has two of the lines necessarily closer together than the ideal condition as well. As you can see, there is no possible configuration of a 2-acre parcel where compliance with this ordinance is possible. Grows are banned on 2-acre parcels, even though the ordinance might at first glance lead you to believe they are permitted.
    Also, in the example above, the 147.58-foot midpoint between the two parallel property lines is a single infinitesimal point, meaning we haven’e accounted for the amount of space the grow area will occupy. That is important, because the setback is measured from the outside of the grow area to the property line. That brings us to the next condition:

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  45. Arther Williams Avatar
    Arther Williams

    Impossible in Practice Scenario
    Let’s do the above with a 3 acre perfectly square parcel. square root of 130680ft^2 = 361.50 feet. Divide that by 2 to get the midpoint and you have 180.75 feet between 2 property lines. Well that seems ok, right? Because if the setback is 150 feet, that means you have 30.75 feet of “play” in the center of the property. A grow is possible on this parcel, it seems. And it is, if there doesn’t happen to be a pond there, or a creek, or a driveway, or a swimming pool, or that spot on the property simply gets no direct sunlight, or some other surface feature that precludes use of the land at that 30.75-foot square. However, no parcels in the county resemble the ideal condition, they are rectangles and rhombuses and other polygons almost entirely. The property lines of parcels in the county can thus vary from the ideal condition by only 30.75 feet before compliance becomes mathematically impossible because of the setbacks. But worse, we can’t consume that entire 30.75 by varying the shape of the parcel, because we need space to grow. Thus, a deviation of the property lines from the ideal condition of 15 feet leaves you with an awkwardly shaped 15 x 15 foot space in the dead center of the property at which compliance is possible. Any more than that, and growing even 6 plants probably isn’t possible. I question whether or not 12 is possible even in a 30.75 x 30.75 foot square in the ideal condition. That is an aside though, the real point is that I am quite certain parcel shapes in the county deviate from the ideal condition much more than 15 feet, or even 30 feet, which makes compliance at this acreage actually impossible in all but the ideal condition and slight deviation therefrom.

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  46. Arther Williams Avatar
    Arther Williams

    Large Parcels
    The situation with small parcels applies to large parcels because at > 5.0 acres, the setbacks increase to 200 feet, meaning you have to have over 400 feet of space between at least two property lines. At greater than 10.0 acres, the setbacks increase to 300 feet, meaning you have to have over 600 feet of space between property lines. Of course you need more, because in all those instances you have to also have enough space to grow.
    I have 18.48 acres. Due to the shape of my parcel, there is no place on my property where compliance with the ordinance is possible.
    The increasing condition also creates just odd situations. A person with 4.99 acres will actually have more grow space available (in the ideal condition, of course) than someone with 5.01 acres, because the person with 5.01 acres has a 200 foot setback, and thus at least 400 feet of total required space between property lines, while the person with 4.99 acres, a parcel of nearly identical size, requires only 300 feet of total avoidance. That makes no sense. The same situation arises between 9.99 acre parcels and 10.01 acre parcels.

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  47. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Arthur @ 4:11 on.
    So, is pothead a preferable title? :). Come on, don’t let the ego get in the way. I happened to have a doper living down the way. Nice quiet retired man. I even once stopped and helped him get some loose goats out of his houchie houchie marihuana garden once. :). He is a vegetarian so I call him a veg head or banana brains..to his face, lol. Lighten up and keep your eye on the important stuff.
    Those labels are important to you, but that is not the big picture. The big picture is you want to legally grow 6 plants. No one is slamming you for that, toker. I have been called a lot worse than those benign soft ball terms….a lot worse and probably more often.
    Let’s get down on it, shall we. I have felt from day 1 that good folks like you want to be called legit, legal, and all that stuff. Where I live, we have two kinds in these parts. The legits and the growers. That’s how we indenttify ourselves to one another. I did not start it, that’s just the way it is when I moved here. Had a lady stop by to talk about the road and she said “so nice to have another legit in the neighborhood”. So, they refer to me as legit. Not bad. She loves riding horses and don’t like growers. That is her right to feel that way whether it is good, bad, or indifferent, right or wrong.
    You complaints are important to you, not me. Been there done that. You just want whatever you are doing to be legitament in the law’s eyes. Society’s eye. Your grandkids’ eyes. Your eyes. No more paranoia when the twirly bird is crossing the sky. I get it. A lot of folks want to come out of the shadows. They want to be called legit.
    Focus on the guidelines. You are not the first nor the last to go off on legal alcohol, deaths caused by drunk driving, blah, blah, blah. Comparisons between grass and booze is a dead end street. Getting religious and suddenly quoting Genesis saying God says all plants are good for man is a dead end street. You being a great guy is a dead end street, as well as being a good law abiding tax paying flag waving American…not the issue here.
    Once had a old timer say something to me I never forgot concerning a different topic. Old John said he may have to tolerate so and so’s behavior, but he doesn’t have to condone it. Focus on the guidelines you would like to see, but to suggest that folks quit calling you old hippies “dopers, smokers, and freeway tokers” is not in your power, or mine, Thank God! We cannot control another’s thoughts or feelings. That is a saving grace. Settle for tolerance. You are asking the impossible for everybody to condone what you or I do at work, at home, or at play. No law will change hearts, only behavior.
    Focus on the guidelines. Suggest, not demand that I not call you a pothead, ok. BTW, suggest nicely cause Websters says “suggestion is a subtle command” and you ain’t the boss of me. ๐Ÿ™‚

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  48. Arther Williams Avatar
    Arther Williams

    Compassionate? I think not. Compliable? I don`t see how.
    These is an extremely devious attempt to provide the bos the opportunity to say, “We tried our best, but they wanted too much” excuse.
    Is this how you would like your elected officials to conspire against you? Devious, indeed.

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  49. Don Bessee Avatar
    Don Bessee

    ‘AW’ at 531, why all the effort for a 2 acre example when there is clearly no 2 acre growing in the BOS’s new ord.?

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  50. Arther Williams Avatar
    Arther Williams

    Bill, I thought I was focusing on the guide lines. The set backs, in particular.

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