The Candidates on Abortion

March 2016
S	M	T	W	T	F	S
	1	2	3	4	5
6	7	8	9	10	11	12
13	14	15	16	17	18	19
20	21	22	23	24	25	26
27	28	29	30	31

OUR LINKS

YubaNet
White House Blog
Watts Up With That?
The Union
Sierra Thread
RL “Bob” Crabb
Barry Pruett Blog

The Candidates on Abortion

30 March 2016

George Rebane

Chris Matthews interviewed Donald Trump and asked how the pregnant woman should be treated if she sought an abortion in a jurisdiction wherein it was illegal. His off-the-cuff answer was that the woman should be held responsible in some manner. Everyone on and off the campaign trail went ballistic.

Offline and at his leisure, Ted Cruz responded, “Of course we shouldn’t be talking about punishing the woman; we should affirm their dignity and the incredible gift they have to bring life into the world.”

Offline and after some consideration Donald Trump went on record, “If Congress were to pass legislation making abortion illegal, and the federal courts upheld this legislation or a state were permitted to ban abortion under state and federal law, the doctor or any other person performing the illegal act upon a woman would be held legally responsible, not the woman. The woman is a victim in this as is the life in her womb.”

Both got it wrong. Cruz was pandering to the hip level response of the mob, and The Donald backpedaled his initial honest response with pabulum in the attempt at damage control.

About Cruz leaping on Trump’s throat – there is nothing “incredible” or a “gift” to society (or mankind) about one more unwanted child that is almost certain to become a resource grabbing disaster for society. And there is no “dignity” for the man or woman in screwing their brains out with no thought to the impact of their lusty liaison. Cruz was pandering to the light thinkers and the plain stupid.

And Trump reversing himself to blame just the abortion artist is equally reprehensible. Yes, the woman and her unborn baby become the victims of an abortion, but it is a preventable victimhood to which the woman (save in rape) is a willing party. So the question becomes ‘how should society differentiate between this type of willing victimhood versus other kinds of willing victimhoods such as drug and alcohol addiction where we already hold the ‘victim’ addict accountable. But more fundamentally, why should society – i.e. the rest of us – create an environment in which lust or any other corrosive behavior can be exercised with the gay abandonment of responsibility for the impact it has on society, and the quality of life of its members? Should society have any other recourse save punishing itself for cleaning up after the aberrants?

Posted in Critical Thinking & Numeracy, Culture Comments, Our Country

45 responses to “The Candidates on Abortion”

Jon

30 March 2016

Bad week for Trump so far…violence against women and girls from staff and supporters, babbling about subjects he’s not prepared to discuss, etc. He’s going to lose Wisco and from there, no upside. Self destructive behavior caused by shooting the mouth and sales pitch before the brain kicks in. ie, the MO of a loud mouth, litigious real estate developer.
We can only pray he wins the GOP nomination. PLEASE 🙂 Go Donald Drumpf!

LikeLike
Bill Tozer

30 March 2016

Some people are a walking talking argument for abortion.

LikeLike
Jon

30 March 2016

Your Drumpfian Dreams are fading Bill. Fading, slowly but surely.
Angry is Over.

LikeLike
joe smith

30 March 2016

George- If you are making a statement I don’t understand what it is. If you are asking a question, I don’t understand the question. This is a very atypical post from you. You are one who normally stomps a stake in the mud and makes a very black and white cogent argument or statement. This post is a hazy and waffling, meaningless shade of gray.

LikeLike
Jon

31 March 2016

Thats right joe. Exactly like the world around us, rarely black and white.
Congratulations George for being as perplexed as the rest of America about the bizarre ramblings of the GOP candidates.

LikeLike
Todd Juvinall

31 March 2016

I am personally opposed to abortion (except rape, incest and life of mother), but it should be a decision between the mother and father and their GOD. It is a cesspool of emotion and will never be agreed to by the people. So, stay out government. Except perhaps for the education of what happens during and after unprotected sex.
Since 70% of black mom’s are single we can see what happens when they don’t understand or practice sensible coitus. Actually, the father of these babies should be arrested for child abuse. That would go for anyone, any race or color as well. It is simply a example of the culture’s lack of responsibility to personal actions.
I saw that Frisch is chastising GeorgeR on this. Perhaps SBC should take in some of these children since he is in charge of the securing of taxpayers money. Maybe the poor taxpayers could get something for their money rather than “climate change” hoax seminars?

LikeLike
Scott Obermuller

31 March 2016

George posed a clear question that no one on the left will touch. Where does personal responsibility lie in the modern era of big mommy govt?
Why should citizens be allowed free rein over their personal lives if they expect the rest of us to constantly pick up the pieces. Not talking about bad stuff that happens to the best of us. Stuff happens. But there are identifiable groups that deliberately make wrong choices as a life style. And they tend to be the folks that are low or non-producers of value.
When the welfare state was mostly local, volunteer and non compulsory, this was usually a non issue. Charity. Now, we have entitlements. A vast new field of ‘human rights’ invented by the left to accompany the big govt of their dreams. Increasingly, the producers will tend to demand more and more accountability from the actions of the folks at the receiving end of constant public largesse. And the folks at the receiving end will increasingly not like it.
Remember – free stuff or freedom – pick one.

LikeLike
George Boardman

31 March 2016

“Cruz was pandering to the light thinkers and the plain stupid.” You shouldn’t talk about his fellow Republicans that way.

LikeLike
jon smith

31 March 2016

An apology is in order. joe smith is talking for jon smith. I’m not sure how long ago this started, or how to correct it, but if I let the computer auto enter my info, it wants to type out joe.

LikeLike
Jon

31 March 2016

Scott, that’s right. Entitlements. We have Medicare, SS and all sorts of benefits for people disabled, incapacitated, needing assistance in a multitude of ways. Yes, we’ve had these for many dozens of years and Americans like them. Are you just figuring this out? Congratulations!

LikeLike
George Rebane

31 March 2016

GeorgeB 907am – Apologies, I got carried away 😉

LikeLike
Scott Obermuller

31 March 2016

Poor Jon – can some one please help him learn to read?

LikeLike
Jon

31 March 2016

Scotty,
Let me help you. You just ripped into the entitlement culture of our government and country as if its some new phenomenon, post Leave It To Beaver (ie, “the good old days”). MC and SS are basically the only entitlements that fiscally matter- your imagination runs wild with your thoughts of lesser humans than you milking some supposed system. Welfare-as-we-know it ended under Bill Clinton. No one sits around doing nothing and collecting benefits for long periods of time. Entitlements have been a successful campaign issue of Bernie and Hillary and will continue to be. Yes, the baby boomers are retiring now and expecting benefits. No one is going to be taking it away from them. Sounds like you would give up your SS and MC benefits to me. Almost all other Americans are not prepared to give up entitlements, and for that, you seem pissed at your fellow Americans. Don’t know why- every other civilized nation on earth has even greater benefits for older retirees.

LikeLike
Scott Obermuller

31 March 2016

Jon – you are completely off base. Everything you claimed about what I had just written was wrong.
I have no clue how your brain works, but obviously something is wrong.
Please, get some help.

LikeLike
Jon

31 March 2016

No, I would say something must be wrong with you Scotty. You just wrote extensively about entitlements and American expectations of entitlements, and I countered it. WTF are you talking about if that wasn’t the subject? Did something happen between here and Idaho when you moved? Perhaps an event on some lonely road out there in Nevada? You know what- you really don’t do a particularly good job of hiding your racism and intolerance for other Americans not up to your standards of WASPiness and work ethic.

LikeLike
Scott Obermuller

31 March 2016

from Jon-the-troll: “You know what- you really don’t do a particularly good job of hiding your racism and intolerance for other Americans not up to your standards of WASPiness and work ethic.”
Hilarious – especially since you’ve never been able to provide any evidence of my alleged racism and intolerance.
Could some one wipe the snot off of Jon’s nose and put him back in his crib?

LikeLike
Jon

31 March 2016

Call em as I see em, Scott. Sorry. Have a nice night in starry Idaho. Must be lovely.

LikeLike
Scott Obermuller

01 April 2016

It was lovely indeed!
I see you have nothing to back up your name calling, Jon. Have a great weekend.

LikeLike
Todd Juvinall

01 April 2016

Trolls like Jon never have proof just bluster.

LikeLike
Bill Tozer

01 April 2016

Well, so much for an interesting read on abortion.

LikeLike
Brad C.

01 April 2016

Abortion comments during election campaigns are just pandering comments directed at evangelicals and Bible belters in order to get their vote. Republican candidates sure are interested in controlling what is going on with women’s “business”.
Women who make the choice to abort a barely developed fetus should be given credit for making an extremely difficult decision. Abortion goes against the fundamental biological DNA ingrained in womanhood that “pushes” women to have babies. The decision to abort should not be, and is not usually, taken lightly by the majority of women who consider abortion. I know women who have had abortions and some where very shaken by the experience because they did not want to have to go through the proceedure – but they felt it was necessary at the time. The idea that women are too stupid to make their own decisions so the government
Leaving abortion regulations to states is a bizarre idea. The right to have an abortion should be guaranteed in any state. Otherwise, people will be crossing state lines or international borders to have procedures. What sense does it make to have one state with “lenient” laws on (alcohol, MJ, gun restrictions, abortion, eductional standards, etc.) and an adjacent state with “restrictive” laws?

LikeLike
George Rebane

01 April 2016

The seminal question I ask in this commentary is –
But more fundamentally, why should society – i.e. the rest of us – create an environment in which lust or any other corrosive behavior can be exercised with the gay abandonment of responsibility for the impact it has on society, and the quality of life of its members? Should society have any other recourse save punishing itself for cleaning up after the aberrants?
Save ScottO’s 848am, it has been totally ignored (e.g. BradC’s 815am) in this comment stream, and happens to be what all the fuss is about between conservatives and liberals. The Right doesn’t want taxpayers to pay for licentious behavior, and the Left claims that the Right wants ‘control’ over a woman’s body. The Left’s perfidy is clear, the Right’s point is worth a debate.

LikeLike
Todd Juvinall

01 April 2016

Abortion decisions should be left to the States. Somehow a bogus decision in Roe v Wade took that from the States and made it Federal. Democrats use abortion as a political litmus test for every candidate and SCOTUS appointee. They politicize this act that is truly intrusive into a woman’s body and try and make the case this killing of a future human is simple OK. Sort of like eating a bob bon.
But we all know no one can change this as a President or a Congressman and all this is simply for votes from the far left loons out there.

LikeLike
Brad C.

01 April 2016

A simple way to “fix” the problem of abortion would be to have morning after pill dispensers in women’s rest rooms priced similarly compared to condoms in men’s restrooms. Have the machines located in bars, restaurants and gas stations across the land. Party on!

LikeLike
George Rebane

01 April 2016

BradC 914am – Were such a ‘safe’ pill to exist, that would be a boon. Does such a pill exist?
Postulate that it does. Who would pay for the pill?

LikeLike
Todd Juvinall

01 April 2016

Brad is on to something

LikeLike
Brad C.

01 April 2016

I think it exists,
http://www.webmd.com/sex/birth-control/plan-b

LikeLike
George Rebane

01 April 2016

BradC 933am – Check your link. The Plan B pill is “not for routine use.” There are probably all kinds of collateral effects to your reproductive health if you’re regularly screwing your brains out and count on popping the pill as a convenient alternative to more conventional contraception methods. Condoms are for routine use.
Nevertheless, Plan B should still be readily available. How readily, I don’t know since there is a liability problem here if the woman winds up hurting herself and blaming the pharma or distributor or the place that had the dispenser. In any event, its societal effectiveness still comes down to the quality of the stuff between the woman’s ears.

LikeLike
Brad C.

01 April 2016

Yes, the good old “pill”is for regular use. But some women don’t like the side effects.
Abortion is what women find necessary on an occasional basis. Plan B would be for them.

LikeLike
Brad C.

01 April 2016

And in related news, http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article53009920.html
Why should tampons be tax-free when TP is not – it ain’t fair!

LikeLike
Todd Juvinall

01 April 2016

BradC, maybe the government schools could handout the pills with the hot dog lunch. What do you think?

LikeLike
Brad C.

01 April 2016

A smart lady should always have Plan B or Plan C-ondoms in her purse when partying. Ladies, don’t leave birth control up to your lazy boyfriend…

LikeLike
George Rebane

01 April 2016

Unfortunately from the videos and available data, the ladies most in need of such prophylactics are anything but smart. And there’s the rub.

LikeLike
Scott Obermuller

01 April 2016

re Brad C at 12:57 – How smart can the lady be if she’s got a lazy boy friend?

LikeLike
Gregory

01 April 2016

My take on the abortion question… in the early stages, the government has nothing to say about what a woman and her chosen health providers choose to do. Can’t stop it, can’t force it and can’t even pay for it unless it is a bona fide issue of rape (with police report), incest (with police report) or direct threat to the physical health of the mother. What part of ‘it ain’t the government’s business’ do you not understand??
On the man’s side… if he’s married to the currently pregnant woman, he deserves to be told prior to the procedure, but it’s still her call. In case of irreconcilable differences, see a lawyer.
If he isn’t married to the mom, tough luck, he doesn’t have any rights at all, including a right to know what’s happened to his errant sperm that fulfilled its destiny for naught. But then in this tough luck world, if she carries the child to term, Uncle Sugar won’t bleed the sperm donor dry in lieu of marriage. You want more from the designated Dad, marry the guy, preferably before a birth certificate is drafted.
Late term… I think the ethics are similar to those of separating conjoined twins, let it be handled similarly. Sorry, that does mean can’t do it for non-medical reasons, but it also means a woman does not have to carry to full term a baby that can’t have a good life one would hope for.

LikeLike
Bill Tozer

02 April 2016

K
https://www.facebook.com/RowdyConservatives/photos/a.217983685002343.55586.217926015008110/821835771283795/?type=3&theater

LikeLike
Patricia Smith

03 April 2016

What I find interesting is that this entire conversation has been conducted by men trying to define when it’s acceptable for a woman to have control of her body, when the government gets to take over, a
nd whether it should be up to the State or the Feds. Shouldn’t it be decided between a woman and her doctor?
I especially love the depiction that every woman who gets an abortion is stupid, lazy and a slut. It takes two to tango (and birth control is not infallible).
If men carried babies, abortion would be legal and paid for on demand.
PS I thought Gregory 4/1/16, 4:19pm made some valid points. (Other than a woman who decides to keep her baby can’t get child support unless she marries the father? He might be an abuser or worse (and she might not have found out until it was too late).

LikeLike
Bill Tozer

03 April 2016

Patricia Smith, I knew it. As soon as I saw your name on comments, I said within my hardened heart “I wonder if she would pipe in how ridiculous this appears from the outside that a bunch of mostly native White Men taking about abortion.” 1st sentence! Ah, I haven’t lost the ole ear on the ground. Thank you. And welcome all fine ladies such as Patricia Smith. 🙂
Without wasting time, either you believe it’s murder or it is not. No use going down that road. Either you like a ham sandwich or you don’t.
Now, if Trump had read a post I put out here months ago, then he would not have riled up everyone under the Sun. Everybody has an strong opinion, some’s opinions have opinions. I just said abortion is the law of the land per Roe vs Wade and a President cannot do much about it. Congress can and will try to tweek with it and the States really come up with obstacles to abortion providers that we all know won”t hold up in court.
So, Trump should have read my post first. It’s all hypothetical.
My take is the same as our host’s, i.e., have at it but I ain’t going to pay for it with tax dollars.
I always wanted to ask some who strongly believes in reincarnation and have vague memories of past lives one question? “Is that a life in that woman’s womb?”

LikeLike
George Rebane

03 April 2016

PatriciaS 539pm – To my knowledge there has been NO ONE here who has defined what control of their bodies women should have. But what’s confusing to most progressives is differentiating between ‘control of body’ and ‘paying for control of body’. Most here don’t want to pay some strange woman’s expenses when she finally decides to control her body. Other than that, by all means control away.

LikeLike
Patricia Smith

04 April 2016

George, I think you know that abortions are not paid for with gov’t dollars except when it’s a health care issue. Yes, they fund health services at PP, but most of PP’s income comes from donations. I don’t want to pay for Viagra prescriptions, but we all do (which might have something to do with increased pregnancies). And if it’s ONLY financial issues you object to, you should demand abortions for anyone who will be using public welfare to raise that child which costs taxpayers a heck of a lot more than the medical procedure. (PLEASE NOTE THAT I AM NOT ADVOCATING FORCED ABORTIONS FOR ANYONE – JUST MAKING A POINT.)
It seems we keep arguing the same topics over and over again (climate change, libs are dumb, abortion, MMJ, and everyone’s favorite – name calling). Doesn’t solve much, but I guess we all like to vent!

LikeLike
George Rebane

04 April 2016

PatriciaS 938am – I believe my 626pm stands. If govt dollars don’t abort, then vaya con Dios is my response. But I do agree with you about the net cost to society of high numbers of ignorant, unskilled, acculturated, and simply redundant people. I believe that within an appropriate legal environment private charities can evaluate and fund safe abortions. Very definitely, govt forced abortions should be beyond the pale in America.
We do indeed continue our debates on the prevailing topics that impact our country and neighborhoods. It was ever thus, and promises to end not any time soon. But given the national interest and numerous media outlets involved in such discourse, take comfort in that we on RR are not alone in this pursuit.

LikeLike
Patricia Smith

04 April 2016

George, looks like we may have reached some sort of agreement.

LikeLike
Bill Tozer

04 April 2016

Well, a small point of disagreement. Libs are dumb. No way around that one. 🙂

LikeLike
Bill Tozer

04 April 2016

K
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10208465682147199&set=p.10208465682147199&type=3&theater

LikeLike
Bill Tozer

04 April 2016

Now wait a cotton pickin’ moment. I must defend My Gal Clinton!!!!!!!
The Latin word fetus means unborn child. Further proof that libs are dumb, dumb, dumb.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/04/04/planned-parenthood-exec-slams-hillary-clinton-calling-fetus-unborn-child/

LikeLike