Rebane's Ruminations
October 2015
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George Rebane

We have long pointed to the travesty of governance that has totally engulfed California over the past decades, and called out its failures which now have become a tidal wave of destruction.  The Left has identified this effort as the misbegotten complaints of an ignorant clutch living isolated from the glorious realities that define the Golden State as the defender of Earth and succor of the poor and alienated.  As the most recent years have demonstrated, these same people have doubled down on their most destructive policies, and are now determined to spread these across America.  We have a government in Washington only too happy to oblige and force the nation to march in the footsteps of California.

Fortunately, there are still Americans who see the follies of socialism, and in their own words echo what has appeared in these pages.  Unfortunately these same people are having a difficult time getting organized and become a more effective political force to oppose our headlong drive to socialism, that beguiling gateway to comprehensive collectivism.  One of the respected national voices of this cohort is the historian and commentator Victor Davis Hanson.  Yesterday he assembled a compendium of California’s calamities – ‘Can California Be Saved?’ – that caught the notice of one of our readers – thank you Mr Tozer.  For the record here is an abbreviated summary of Hanson’s points.


1. Crime rates in the state have reversed and are soaring due to the early release of recidivist convicts and the general disrespect for law enforcement that our administration has fostered across the land.

2. In the fifth year of our latest drought (these have occurred regularly over the ages) we suffer extra because Sacramento has not built additional reservoirs to conserve additional water for its additional population.  Our legislators “prefer to designate transgender restrooms, ban plastic bags at grocery stores, and prohibit pet dogs from chasing bears and bobcats.”

3. Our state “California endures some of the highest gasoline taxes, sales taxes, and income taxes in the nation. Yet its roads and public schools rate near the very bottom of U.S. rankings.”  And traffic accidents are up 13% in the last three years.

4. In LA with our highest population of illegal aliens “almost half of all accidents are hit-and-run where the drivers leave the scene.”

5. “California has lots of petroleum and natural gas”, and we used to set the pace in building hydroelectric and nuclear power plants.  Today Sacramento’s idiots have made our electricity and gasoline prices “among the highest in the nation.”

6. California is following Detroit by “growing government it cannot pay for, shorting the middle classes, hiking taxes but providing shoddy services and infrastructure in return” and “obsessing over minor bumper-sticker issues while ignoring existential crises.”

And why has all this happened and why are the insanities proceeding apace?  Hanson collects the causes.

1. “The cause is political.  California is a one party state, without any serious audit of authorities in power.”  Assembly – 52 Ds and 28 Rs; Senate – 26 Ds and 14 Rs.

2. All the state’s executive officers are Democrats as are overwhelmingly its delegation to Washington.

3. The once bipartisan purple has turned “bright blue” resulting in higher taxes and regs that have driven out small businesses and hundreds of thousands of middle-class voters to states like no-tax Nevada, Texas, and Florida.

4. Today the state is “devolved into a pyramid of the coastal wealthy and interior poor – the dual constituencies of the new progressive movement.”

5. A third of America’s welfare recipients live here with a quarter of Californians living below the poverty line while the state boasts the most billionaires living in a “thin coastal corridor (that) has become a tony La-La land unto itself.”

6. The poorer in the interior “require ever more public services” for which the coastal rich don’t mind paying the “necessary higher taxes, while the strapped, shrinking middle class suffers or flees.”

7. Demographically California is young and dumb, fielding median age 35 voters who are easy targets for the socialist screeds.

8. California hosts the most illegal aliens and foreign-born residents who form ill-informed “immigrant groups (that) are likewise traditional liberal constituencies, at least in the early generations.”

9. Wealth in California is today made in “high-tech, social media, the Internet, government employment, academia, lawyering, and acting”, and not in “the old-fashioned way – mining, timber, ranching, farming, and construction.”

10. Today “Profits usually involve programming, investing, financing, hedging, talking, dealing, suing, instructing, and regulating.”

And today we add to this list the AB32 spawned green regulations and subsidized jobs which put another knot into California’s economy based on hysterical science politically subscribed.

Hanson finally asks if California could change back to a sustainable social order.  I’ll let you read his ‘only if’ answers and see what you think.  My answer remains a more doleful and dour NFW.

[24oct15 update]  As if to rub in the above analysis of California’s self-inflicted woes, we now hear reports of our neighbor to the east experiencing a surge in businesses and manufactories establishing themselves there to enjoy a more conducive tax and regulatory environment.  Reno is welcoming tens of new enterprises big and small that will use a nearby jurisdictional boundary to gain the best part of both worlds – Nevada’s pro-business clime and proximity to California’s high population markets. (more here)  In fact, because of California’s socialists, things are so good in Nevada that places like Reno are shifting their economies away from being casino-centric to enterprises that will generate even more wealth, jobs, and tax revenues.  Meanwhile the numbnuts in Sacramento, with approving nods from their know-nothing local lackies, continue putting forth more programs to perpetuate poordom that will be funded by our never-care coastal rich and our overtaxed, shrinking middle class.

For readers familiar with the Gini Index of wealth/income distribution, I leave as an exercise to draw the perverse shape of California’s Lorenz curve which our progressives are promoting as they continue to demagogue wealth inequality to our gruberized electorate.

But California’s liberal plague will continue as this bit of wisdom from Maxine will attest.

Maxine_2015

Posted in , , , ,

127 responses to “‘Can California be Saved?’ (updated 24oct15)”

  1. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 435pm – My attempt to keep commenters on topic is nowhere near perfect, especially to progressives’ standards, and I make no claims otherwise. You take RR and participate in its debates as you find them, or you depart for more favorable anchorages. Yes, I am a biased person, and I take more shit from those who more closely see the world as I do, than I do from those for whom I represent a blight on the body politic. Surprised?
    And would you believe it that I really don’t keep track of how many “turds” were exchanged for a “dog shit crazy” some similar pleasantries? However, you are free to do so and call me out on it. Wanna run a better no holds barred issues blog, be my guest.

    Like

  2. Steven Frisch Avatar
    Steven Frisch

    Posted by: don bessee | 24 October 2015 at 05:47 PM
    Hey Don Beesee, I did not bring this issue up Todd did, so I suggest you take your complaint to him.

    Like

  3. Jon Avatar
    Jon

    George, care to take a guess as to who started today’s crap?

    Like

  4. don bessee Avatar
    don bessee

    So that would be a no to jello wrestling? LOL

    Like

  5. Steven Frisch Avatar
    Steven Frisch

    Posted by: don bessee | 24 October 2015 at 06:08 PM
    You can wrestle with your own demons.

    Like

  6. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    “Let’s restate the case I made without the ‘idiot’ language.”-Frisch
    What a shame that wasn’t done the first time.
    In any case, Frisch never has owned up to his problems with the IRS being due to fraudulent practices on his part. Wu apparently has sucked at the endgame, hence a heavy hand. Time will tell.
    California hasn’t hit bottom yet; the GOP will get the state back after the union money spigot is turned off (there’s a chance the SCOTUS will rule for that next Spring) or the global warming game ends, but there’s a real danger the GOP will once again be holding the bag when the effluent really hits the fan.

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  7. don bessee Avatar
    don bessee

    You and Todd could sell a bunch of tickets for charity! LOL

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  8. don bessee Avatar
    don bessee

    Ok Frisch I can understand your aversion to the Stone House, kind of like the growers not wanting to go to the Rood Center to debate. So how about a change of venue? Veterans Hall GV or NU? You both name a charity and the money is evenly split. In this corner Todd the original gangster of CABPRO vs. Steve the Executive of the green machine SBC. 😉

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  9. Jon Avatar
    Jon

    Todd as a gangster…lol…

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  10. Jon Avatar
    Jon

    “the global warming game ends” Greg
    Not a game, and unfortunately for humanity, its not ending. 2015 is the hottest year on record by a mile and we continue on with these insanely, statistically impossible weather events, such as Patricia. Keep Denying. As Todd would say, your ilk is clueless.

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  11. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    My, somebody(s) needs a group hug. What in the tarnation is going on here, gentlemen and FIsh? What, somebody hit the fire alarm or are the hallways are filled with you guys running around looking for the Hall Moniter. Yes, you stil need a hall pass, duh.
    Let’s reason together.
    Paul around 4:35 pm: Well, maybe Steve is a turd eater. Hard to say from here, but I suspect Steve does not eat turds, not even rabbit turds. I believe he has a more discriminating palette and all. Uppity stuff goes down his gullet.
    Cheer up, Steve. Not everyone can be the teacher’s pet, now can they? These injustices you harbor can poison your stellar cognitive reasoning. It’s Saturday night. Catch a movie, get drunk with Jon and really let er’ rip on this site around 11:35 tonight. It will be a barrel of monkies. Don’t forget to bring the Mad Hatter. Get it out my good fellow. Don’t hold back.
    My favorite tombstone in the world. Contains an ominous warning as well.
    “In the breeze where I please, not doing that was the death of me.”

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  12. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Well, not just CA on this link, but think LA and Frisco for CA examples.
    http://patriotpost.us/articles/38449
    Since I am at it, Yo Jon; you are stuck even deeper than ever with the ever charming and witty, Rodclam. You man is still waiting for his ship to come in somewhere where nobody can remember. Uncle Joe would have been the life of the party.
    http://patriotpost.us/cartoons/22558

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  13. Jon Avatar
    Jon

    Hillary will destroy Ben Carson in the matchup. Eat alive and spit out for kicks. Carson will make Trey Gowdy look like a winner!
    I’ll vote for anyone who’s not interested in returning to the Stone Age.

    Like

  14. Russ Steele Avatar
    Russ Steele

    jon 24 October 2015 at 07:04 PM
    You claim that 2015 is the warmest year. Facts please.
    Satellite Datasets Show 2015 is NOT a Record Year.
    Only the repeatedly and retroactively falsified datasets of the NOAA/NCDC, NASA/GISS and MetOffice/Hadley/CRU tell us that the global warming continues on. The global warming “pause”has been simply calculated away….
    The unaltered (unfalsified) satellite measurements of the lower global troposphere (LT) by RSS and UAH through September 2015 on the other hand show no signs of a new record year since the record year of 1998 and the El Niño year of 2010. “The least-squares linear-regression trend on the RSS satellite monthly global mean surface temperature anomaly dataset shows no global warming for 18 years 8 months since February 1997, though one-third of all anthropogenic forcings have occurred during the period of the Pause.”
    jon, how do you account or the two satellite data sets that do not show any warming and show that 2015 was not the warmest year?
    Even the warming number crunchers at the US NOAA show this at their monthly website, though somewhat hidden away, at http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/upper-air/201509 with a conversion calculation of the UAH und RSS datasets to the international usual 1981-2010 WMO climate mean: Here the NOAA still continues to use the warmer values of the older UAH data version http://www.nsstc.uah.edu/data/msu/t2lt/uahncdc_lt_5.6.txt, even though in April 2015 a new cooler version.
    I have linked to my sources, perhaps you would like to link to your sources for 2015 being the warmest year?

    Like

  15. Walt Avatar

    The Ca. ECO bastards are in for a real rude awakening when the subsides come to an end for solar and wind. Then what will Ca. do?
    The State of Jefferson idea is gaining ground. Another round on that was on KFBK just the other day. Funny,,, not one call came in against it.(that I heard) The callers were all for it.
    As stated above, the cities are not “hip” friendly anymore. What are the low income feral LIBS going to do? Reduced to living in shipping containers. Think they will stand for that?
    The H1B visa imports has now claimed a family member’s job. Allie Babba is now in on the game. My Son was supposed to train his replacement. Well,,, that didn’t work out so hot for the Co. The replacement didn’t know shit, and when the Co. begged my kid to stay on despite the backstabbing,, my boy told them to pound sand. He had just got a new job that pays him double. You don’t screw with the guy who writes the programs you rely on. The source programs were on his personal computer. It sure sucks when the delete button gets hit.

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  16. Walt Avatar

    So “jon” in a Hillary guy/gal/it. LOL! Not a good thing to be in Nevada Co.,, Backing a confirmed liar. (no surprise there)
    Yes, LIB news is flying cover for the soon to be felon. ( the FBI isn’t done with her yet)
    One shouldn’t brag about supporting Hillary. It shows they have no credibility.

    Like

  17. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    Jon 704
    No Jon, global warming is a game of make believe by the left who chose to throw themselves thoroughly behind it a couple decades ago and have suspended modern science to do so. As Freeman Dyson stated a couple weeks ago,
    “It’s very sad that in this country, political opinion parted [people’s views on climate change]. I’m 100 per cent Democrat myself, and I like Obama. But he took the wrong side on this issue, and the Republicans took the right side.”
    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/10/11/freeman_dyson_interview/
    There are a number of nuggets in that short interview, if you need any of the points made clearer, just ask.

    Like

  18. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    Wow I leave for a few hours to comfort someone in the hospital and I come back to see Steve Frisch whining like a ten year old girl once again. And Paul Emery with his “bias” on who said something about a turd. What a hoot. The lib posters here are truly a fine example of why America is on the downside. Since these libs here live in California, they have already proved their power by destroying California. Good job there Steve Frisch, Paul Emery and “jon” the troll.
    So on and on the left argues the facts. I really think these libs have a break with reality. Never claiming they are wrong about anything, I truly think that is a mental disorder. I know Frisch has it and Paul is a close second.
    I have to admit though these libs are funny even though they think they are serious.

    Like

  19. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Can CA be saved? Ah, it all depends on the correct answer:
    https://www.facebook.com/RowdyConservatives/photos/a.254420818025296.63999.217926015008110/744661772334529/?type=3&theater
    Me thinks no. We have too many promises to dole out the dole. BS’s ideas just embodies what is going on here in the former Golden State and why we are going under. We are over the hump and on the down short slide of arriving at the place of no return.
    https://www.facebook.com/RowdyConservatives/photos/a.254420818025296.63999.217926015008110/744685232332183/?type=3&theater

    Like

  20. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    Global warming as the left has tried to force down the throats of us all is only a political movement. I said it in print twenty years ago and I have been proven correct. It is all about power and the left wants to wield it. Right down to the carbon atoms of our bodies. Now we see the issue of deserts sequestering trillions of tons of carbon in the subsurface waters. I think it was in today’s Union. Those scientists said that sequestration was way larger than plants on the surface and have balanced to carbon emissions. Maybe Russ knows this better.
    But of course the “jons” of the left will not believe it. But we are supposed to believe their phony “hockey stick” make believe.

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  21. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    Steven Frisch | 24 October 2015 at 05:30 PM
    My goodness, you just can’t let go with calling people names. Is that a mental disorder? I would suggest you take another look at what I wrote prior to this latest personal namecalling attack on me and read it and then try to comprehend what I wrote. I wrote the truth as I am a honest man. And unlike you, I don’t whine like a little girl.
    You swiped many thousands of dollars from your employees just like Wu. I never did that. I never have been arrested or been in jail. Can you say the same Frisch? Why should anyone trust you? You also supported AB32 and opposed Prop 23 and you were politicking all that. Yet you draw a salary the taxpayers subsidize. How is that right? I give you credit though. Your wiley and dishonest politics have sent California over the edge. And while you reside in a nice house your policies have made it nigh to impossible for the middle class and poor to live here comfortably like you. So, complain all you want, I was a builder and youa and your ilk are takers and have wrecked the state I and many others had worked hard for.

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  22. Jon Avatar
    Jon

    Dumbest official every elected in CA history. Something to be proud of?

    Like

  23. George Rebane Avatar

    Jon 932pm – If we start on what the True Believers have cited as ‘targets’, then there is a rich literature on such PGW targets missed. And the Wash Post, along with other progressive rags, continues to push the panic button now that the Paris conference is nigh. The hysteria must be maintained, if not with real data, then with ‘targeted data’.

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  24. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    The hysteria is not working very well now. As the True Believers squeal more and pass more regulations to curb the hoax of AGW, the poor and middle class are now busy trying to survive. The only people who are “set” in life are the rich and the stupid liberals. Working stiffs and their families are on food stamps now that the ObamaWorld lifestyle is in full swing. So humans are not concerned and the polls show the AGW hysteria is way down at the bottom of concerns as well it should be. I am sure the shysters pushing it are like “jon” and probably living off of daddy’s hard work and savings.

    Like

  25. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Well, Jon, blame it all on “record drought” and too many po folk moviing here from other countries and locals humping like crazy rats in a sock. Never mind the 100 and 200 year droughts of days gone by.
    Here is a link from the Left side of the aisle.
    CA is not the CA of your grandpappy. When was the last time you walked into a hardware store and bought a cheap corn cob pipe? The decline happened just around the time Libbies took over and banned candy cigarettes. Been downhill ever since.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/25/opinion/sunday/my-dark-california-dream.html?_r=0

    Like

  26. fish Avatar
    fish

    Russ, sorry. We are ON TARGET to be the hottest year on record through September. Brutal September.
    He’s right Russ. I know this because he put it in ALL CAPS and of course ALL CAPS means it’s TRUE.

    Like

  27. George Rebane Avatar

    ToddJ 630am – I’m not sure how your citations support “the hysteria is not working very well now.” It seems that you make an excellent case that the hysteria is working exactly as the progressive elites have planned it to work – they use the PGW argument for making laws and regs that cause things going to hell, then they blame it on capitalism and Republicans, and the distressed gruberized continue to vote them into office forever as the Dems promise to claw back and redistribute the wealth of ‘the rich’, thereby bringing a happy land to all. I think they planned their work back in the 1980’s (A21, etc), and now they are working their plan.

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  28. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    There is no contradiction actually. The True Believers are the politicians and their bureaucrats, not the people. But those same politicians are sending out the manna that keeps their sheeple alive so they stay muted. If you look at the polls you will see the truth about the position of AGW on the list of importance. Unfortunately the sheeple still want the food and shelter paid for so they keep quiet.

    Like

  29. Jon Avatar
    Jon

    That’s right fish, we are on target for the HOTTEST year on record. According to the experts. Might want to listen to them.
    thanks.

    Like

  30. fish Avatar
    fish

    HOTTEST? REALLY?
    Not the HOTTEST? OH NOES!

    Like

  31. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    Yeah I just turned on the heater. It is sooo hot! And those computer models are always on the money. LOL!

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  32. Walt Avatar

    LOL ‘jon”,, when your “experts” manufacture data,, yup,,, hottest.

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  33. Jon Avatar
    Jon

    Sorry the facts don’t fit your far right narrative Walt.
    But best of luck to you with your fantasies.

    Like

  34. Steven Frisch Avatar
    Steven Frisch

    (I love it when people post about the ‘facts’, get the ‘facts’ wrong, then don’t respond to actual facts. It is as though there is some secret ‘fact free zone’ where people who pine for the 1950’s like ‘conservatarians’ gather and cling to Leave It To Beaver.)
    Posted by: larry wirth | 24 October 2015 at 11:36 AM
    I don’t know where you are getting your figure that 86% of California’s electricity is imported Larry. Could you source it?
    As of 2014 2/3 of California electricity is generated in state and 1/3 is imported.
    http://energyalmanac.ca.gov/electricity/total_system_power.html
    http://energyalmanac.ca.gov/petroleum/statistics/crude_oil_receipts.html

    Like

  35. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    Steven Frisch | 25 October 2015 at 10:24 AM
    O agree. The AGW crowd has perped made-up science for years and tried to pass it off as facts. Thanks goodness we “deniers” have kept the true facts on the table.

    Like

  36. Jon Avatar
    Jon

    Come on Steve. We’ll eventually return to a world where Ward Cleaver and other real men rule the house again. About the same time as the GOP returns to power in CA. Ben Carson will lead our return to the 1950s! Abortion = Slavery he says. What a guy.

    Like

  37. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: Jon | 25 October 2015 at 10:39 AM
    I would totally believe that. Unfortunately it isn’t in ALL CAPS so I have question as to its veracity!

    Like

  38. larry wirth Avatar
    larry wirth

    Mr. Frisch, I gave my sources (the CA state website) back when I first made the statements six or so weeks ago. You had no answer at the time.
    You seem not to notice that in addition to 33% electricity imported directly, an additional 52% of CA electricity is generated in state using imported natural gas, hence 84% is imported. Got it?

    Like

  39. Gary Smith Avatar

    One of the many changes that Calif. needs to make is to stop spending on advertising. I have noticed that the TV ads among other forms of advertising just keeps increasing every year, especially the TV ads. First 5 alone averages over $30 million a year on advertising (http://www.flopped5.org/). Yes I know First 5 has their own revenue. Then we have ads for pedestrian safety, highway worker safety, save water, don’t text and drive, visit California, sign up for health care, if you are an illegal sign up for Medi Cal. The list goes on and on and I bet I have missed several. I guess all this advertising is supposed to change my attitude? It would be a real eye opener to find out how much Calif. spends on advertising as total for all the agencies combined. Maybe it started out as just informing us but to me it has advanced to social engineering.

    Like

  40. Steven Frisch Avatar
    Steven Frisch

    Posted by: larry wirth | 25 October 2015 at 11:00 AM
    I am sorry Larry but that is an utterly irrelevant statistic. Natural gas is a commodity and is shipped all over the place. Just as crude oil is a commodity. The question is irrelevant to any reasonable measure of energy generation. We generate 2/3 of the electricity we use in state.

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  41. Walt Avatar

    Nice try “Abbot and Costello”. When the numbers (data) get “adjusted” to fit the narrative,
    those are no longer “facts”.. It’s book cooking.
    NOAA and NASA have been caught red handed going just that. Cooking the books. That’s FRAUD.
    Nope, you guys keep right on yapping like it never happened.
    Just one link of MANY.
    https://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2014/06/23/noaanasa-dramatically-altered-us-temperatures-after-the-year-2000/
    Let the cricket fest begin.

    Like

  42. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Todd writes: 25 October 2015 at 9:05 AM
    ” The True Believers are the politicians and their bureaucrats, not the people. ”
    Where did you get that information Todd? All polling shows that a vast majority believe that global warming is a reality and is mostly caused by human activity. Do you have a source to back your contention or did you make it up? Here’s a link to recent polling on the matter.
    http://www.pollingreport.com/enviro.htm

    Like

  43. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    Jon (Frisch, too), my experts can beat up your experts and my facts beat up your facts. It’s a fact that the satellite and radiosonde datasets do not show 2015 to be the hottest year “on record” or even of the last 10 years, nor is there anything close to a link to recent weather being a solid indicator that the world’s climate being fundamentally unstable which is the basis for catastrophic warming claims: that a nudge from CO2 (or anything else) will be multiplied by a factor of 2, 3 or even more in a runaway positive feedback event that has never happened in the 540 million years visible life has existed on the planet.
    It’s also a fact that half of the America Meteorological Society’s professional membership believe less than half the warming of the last century is primarily due to mankind (the AMS actually asked the question) and that fact is inconsistent with your continued claims of an absolute consensus.

    Like

  44. George Rebane Avatar

    Interesting debate between LarryW 1100aam and StevenF 1118am on the source of CA’s electricity. Perhaps a more meaningful question would be ‘Is CA self-sufficient in providing the electric power it uses?’ This is not to be confused with ‘can CA be self-sufficient?’ to which the answer is a clear YES, but NIMBY policies prevent such self-sufficiency.
    So given all the cross border exchanges in cash and commodities, to me the more correct answer comes from examining whether CA (public and private) is a sustainable net cash exporter. If it is, then CA is a self-sufficient electricity provider. If not, then CA’s fisc depends on unsustainable borrowing (with unfunded liabilities and all that), and it is not self-sufficient in providing its own electricity and many other things it has to import.
    Bottom line, if we can continue paying for something into the indefinite future, then we are self-sufficient as long as the fabric of civilization is not rent. But if such a future has a calculable horizon, then we are not self-sufficient since we are borrowing from that limited future to pay for today.

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  45. don bessee Avatar
    don bessee

    The real point Dr. R is that CA sits atop massive gas and oil resources and has made the financially suicidal but PC green choice to fight any attempts to really be energy self sufficient. In fact even with current price points the state could likely fully fund its pension obligations by being an energy exporter instead of an importer. We pay dearly for these energy policies that decimate the poor’s disposable income percentages. It is not now financially sustainable to use their favorite phrase. Its only going to get worse under the latest PC bills that passed in CA this year.

    Like

  46. George Rebane Avatar

    donb 103pm – Yes, agreed – that’s what I already covered in the first paragraph of my 1249pm. So given all the ‘green insanity’, how can we characterize our existential (not potential) self-sufficiency?

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  47. Steven Frisch Avatar
    Steven Frisch

    Posted by: don bessee | 25 October 2015 at 01:03 PM
    Posted by: George Rebane | 25 October 2015 at 01:07 PM
    You may think we sit on resources that would be cheaper than renewable energy but you would be wrong. Even without subsidy, and particularly if subsidy were withdrawn from all sources of energy, renewables and conservation would be cheaper than California sources of fossil fuels.
    But really it is irrelevant as I said above because fossil fuels are a global commodity and commodity markets do not know political boundaries.

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  48. larry wirth Avatar
    larry wirth

    In that case, Steven, you might as well claim that CA is 100% self-sufficient in electricity since I presume it also pays for the coal and hydro power from Arizona and Oregon.
    All in how you look at, I suppose.

    Like

  49. Steven Frisch Avatar
    Steven Frisch

    “To All:
    Since this conversation is supposed to be about “sustainability,” I took a look (didn’t take long) at the source of California’s electricity. Very interesting.
    Seems that approximately 32% of the supply is directly imported from neighbors, some hydro from Washington and Oregon, but the largest proportion from Arizona (Four Corners)in the form of coal fired generation. Don’t know if CA still gets any power from Hoover Dam.
    Seems 60% of the power is from nat gas plants in-state, but 90% of the gas in imported. 6×9= 54%.
    So 54% + 32% = 86% of Cali’s electricity is imported, either directly or indirectly! Turning the existing Kinder Mort gas line into petro product might put a dent in the 54%.
    Of the remaining electric supply of 14%, 10% is hydro, leaving a whopping 4% for nuclear, wind, solar, biomass, geothermal.
    And of those, the largest is nuclear (with just 2 plants vs. hundreds and thousands of bird choppers and burners.
    Is this anyone’s idea of sustainability.
    Posted by: Larry Wirth | 19 July 2015 at 11:37 AM”

    I went back to get the original post above.
    My point is that the question posed by Larry is irrelevant.
    First, my case was never that California should have a ‘sustainable’ source of power as he is defining it as generated and sourced internally, it was that it should rely on renewable resources.
    Second, I never contended that we could wean ourselves of fossil fuels either quickly or cheaply; in fact I am on record on these pages as saying it would likely take 50 years or more.
    Third, his case that California imports oil and gas is irrelevant, fossil fuels, like renewably generated electricity, are commodities, they are not confined by political boundaries.
    Fourth, some of Larry’s facts posted above are incorrect, for example, the largest proportion of imported electricity is not from coal; coal comprises 10,000 Gwh of 300,000 Gwh we use (combined in state and imported) of 3% of our portfolio, and is steadily declining.

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