Rebane's Ruminations
August 2015
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George Rebane

In response to my 7aug15 commentary – ‘Planned (alternative to) Parenthood’ – in The Union, the newspaper’s 15aug15 edition contains two related pieces illuminating the liberal mind from the logically lame to the deliberately deceitful.  The first is a letter to the editor from “Dr Larry and Cheryl Cook” (paywalled here), and the second is an Other Voices commentary (paywalled here) by Ms Kimberly D’Urso, the gratefully aborted president of Nevada County Citizens for Choice.  Regular readers may recall our previous consideration of Ms Cheryl Cook in these pages (here and here).

The Cooks’ critique of my commentary is more than mind boggling.  They take me to task for my “blatantly exclusionary focus on women undergoing abortions”.  Apparently I was remiss in not including a comprehensive treatment of all the mass homicides caused by gun toting lunatics in my 750-word piece on Planned Parenthood that according to their lights attempted to treat “the sanctity of all human life, really?”  Well not quite.


Their letter was actually another screed promoting gun control and confiscation in America, and their desperate logic attempted to connect the 860,000 annual abortion deaths to the tens of annual mass killings by deranged lunatics and dedicated terrorists.  A careful perusal of the letter engenders hope about Dr Larry Cook, that if he works in healthcare, he doesn’t use similar logical constructs to cobble together his patients’ diagnoses and subsequent prescriptions.  About Ms Cheryl Cook, our already stated position continues to serve.

Ms D’Urso’s commentary is a quadruped of a different hue.  She repeats the deceptive pro-PP arguments that have become the de rigueur of abortion apologetics.  The first is the generic progressive proposition that something that government does not pay for is then considered to be prohibited, censored, proscribed, etc by that same government.  Ergo, opposing government funding of abortion is tantamount to supporting the prohibition of abortion in the land.  This deceit has numerous attendant corollaries in the liberal mind that range from specific notions such as ‘opposing women’s healthcare’ to conducting a general ‘war on women’.

Regarding PP, she launches into the deceptive reprise of the organization’s “services” of which 97% are claimed not related to the abortion event (service) itself.  This argument will serve to convince the intellectually compressed and gruberized of the land that an equivalent fraction of PP’s private and public funding is so apportioned, thereby guaranteeing that no federal monies are used to fund abortions per se.  The more informed reader is instantly jolted by this claim when he considers that PP's performing over 330,000 (or 40% of the annual total) abortions in a clinically standard-of-care environment is expensive (consider the insurance alone), and must consume the lion’s share of the PP budget.  And since PP's received income is fungible, federal dollars do indeed fund abortions in their clinics.

The aboveboard solution for PP is simple.  Calve off another organization, say, ‘Planned Abortions Unlimited’, that does nothing but provide clinically safe abortions.  PAU would operate as a charity and be funded only by private sector donations already claimed to fund that service – no government monies will cross its threshold.  Then PAU could abort to its heart’s content and ‘sell’ or otherwise make available body parts galore for research or whatever legal purposes are allowed for such ‘fetal tissues’.

PP itself would then remain pristine of all the guts and gore, and continue to provide all the other women’s health services to which it lays claim.  But methinks the progressives know that such an arrangement would not fly financially; there is not enough charitable funding in America to provide for aborting healthy humans gestating in healthy yet careless women.  However, I do believe that sufficient charitable funding would be available for aborting certain limited categories of women that involve health issues with the mother-to-be and/or the life inside her.  Such abortion clinics could then be run like any other privately funded secular humanist charity.

But the Left, led locally by Ms D’Urso, does not want to recognize the fundamental tenet of our republic’s governance – that government should not fund extra- and/or un-constitutional activities which are repulsive to a large fraction of its citizen taxpayers.  For the likes of D’Urso such funding programs are the sum and stuff of using other people's money to buy votes from the ill-informed and uninformable.  And we all know that it works.

[16aug15 update]  True to form and wholly expected, the comment stream below is replete with liberal histrionics that derive from the primal principle of progressives – (from above) “something that government does not pay for is then considered to be prohibited, censored, proscribed, etc by that same government.”  Their uninformed anguish is real, they sincerely believe that if Planned Parenthood ceases to receive government funding, then women across the land will again be forced to auto-abort with coat hangers, and in the interval have nowhere to turn for other health services they need.  In reality there is no basis for that hysteria.  There are solutions to modifying PP as I outlined above, but more importantly the country is populated with abundant private abortion clinics which perform the service for free or a fee.  And other women’s health services not offering abortions abound.  Here are three right here in Nevada County.

-        Western Sierra Medical Clinic, 844 Old Tunnel Rd, GV; 530-274-9762

-        Sierra Family Medical Clinic, 15301 Tyler-Foote Rd, NC; 530-292-3478

-        Sierra Nevada Memorial Hospital, GV; Barbara Schmidt Millar Memorial Fund, a 501c3, and other charities provide the hospital funds for women’s health services including mammograms.

Finally, the feds themselves now promise to provide women’s health services through Obamacare’s expansion of Medicaid (here MediCal) as another alternative to PP.

Meanwhile, I’m told by correspondents, that certain local leftwing cretins’ reading of the above piece has raised their ire sufficiently to call me and conservative RR readers “misogynists” for daring to suggest that abortion is not universally embraced in America, and that such procedures should not be funded by government because of their extra-constitutionality and opposition by a large fraction of Americans.  For those who may have forgotten, misogynist is “a person who dislikes, despises, or is strongly prejudiced against women.”

Posted in , ,

119 responses to “Liberally Liberal Abortions Revisited (updated 16aug15)”

  1. fish Avatar
    fish

    ….and as predictable of the passing of days.
    jeffpelline says:
    August 15, 2015 at 12:47 pm
    I love it when the blog of the white, aging, male misogynists tackles “women’s issues.”
    http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2015/08/liberally-liberal-abortions-revisited.html
    Even Dr. Phil couldn’t untangle this one. LOL. And a reminder of how Dr. Rebane has once again polluted the local newspaper’s op-ed pages.
    You really put a great deal of stock in the abilities of Oprahs pet “psychologist”. You mention him over, and over, and over….well you get the idea.
    Wonder what Dr. Phil would say about that?

    Like

  2. fish Avatar
    fish

    Sigh! The same old broken record……gun control, gun control, gun control! Any controversial topic an opportunity to pivot to her favorite subject!
    Sorry darlin seems that ship has sailed!

    Like

  3. fish Avatar
    fish

    C’mon over and chat. I’m sure if we are vaguely civil George won’t mind and I’m desperately trying to avoid my daily chores.
    jeffpelline says:
    August 15, 2015 at 1:08 pm
    Oh no “fish” is back, “cutting and pasting” his way through the blogosphere. Another day of his life wasted. What an idiot!
    <a href="http://www.ncc-1776.org/tle2011/tle603-20110116-02.html“>http://www.ncc-1776.org/tle2011/tle603-20110116-02.html
    I know you always feel better after posting that link. You and feeble old Marshall and ever discuss it?
    Wonder if he’s still entertaining fantasies of handguns teaching children to read?

    Like

  4. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    The left’s “war on women” is on full steam. A majority of the aborted humans are female (just like China’s one male child policies). The almost 100% of the abortionists are leftists/democrats. But the left does their best to shift this phony “war” to the Republicans. We want those hundreds of thousands of female babies to survive and become adults. The left doesn’t. They are afraid those full grown fetuses might become a Republican, so they must be destroyed (unlike their desire for voting rights for illegal aliens). These Frankenstein monster lovers at Planned Parenthood are simply ghouls. Boris Karloff played them well in his movies.
    And since we Republicans love our mothers, you know, those “women”! It seems a hard sell for them to convince anyone except themselves there is a “war” on women perped by R’s. Demographically, at least half the voters in the R party are women too. Does that mean those women are warring on women? Is Carli warring on her gender? Of course this concept was booted in the Colorado Senate race in 2014 when all this BS backfired and the voters elected a R instead of another lying democrat for the Congress.
    Lastly, peeling off the abortion department of PP is a good idea. Then the left can donate their money to further Margaret Sanger’s Eugenics ideas.

    Like

  5. fish Avatar
    fish

    Jeff I can’t believe your going to put up with this disrespect….and from a regular commenter! The nerve!
    curtiswalker says:
    August 15, 2015 at 1:27 pm
    BS=Well, BS
    MS= MORE SH&%
    PHD= HIGHER AND DEEPER
    Amen
    I just thank god that you didn’t pursue a doctorate and so managed to avoid the full measure of Curtis wrath!

    Like

  6. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    RR Regulars,
    What is your approach at replacing all of the services provided by planned parenthood?
    I know you guys seem to not like the organization but what would you replace it with?
    Or would you say to teens, young adults, poor people, and single mothers “you are on your own for navigating cancer screenings, contraceptives, sex/ reproductive education, and the entire sphere of child bearing?
    Until I see anything of substance coming out of the Republican Party or this dead pecker society blog(men who are old enough where impotence is not uncommon) this is just the continuation of men trying to control women.

    Like

  7. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Ben Emery | 15 August 2015 at 01:54 PM
    I consider Planned Parenthood no better than pre WW2 Germany. It was founded by Margaret Sanger who preached that blacks were inferior and the country should be rid of them. Sort of like the “little corporal” right?
    There are plenty of other organizations that can doe the work of PP and all without subsidy from my taxes. You know that is true but if you do know and are plating, then shame on you.
    Tell us all how you feel when you see those little hands and feet and cracked skulls Ben Emery. You like that they do this?

    Like

  8. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: Ben Emery | 15 August 2015 at 01:54 PM
    And as regular as clockwork Ben presents the false choice. Why is it our responsibility to “replace it” with anything? I’m sure there are enough discretionary funds in “progressive world” to maintain these programs. After all they’re really more important to you guys.
    Go ahead and part out fetuses for profit just don’t do it on the taxpayers dime.

    Like

  9. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Fish,
    Not replacing it was one of my options so it wasn’t a false choice.
    Fish ad Todd,
    What is it about the general welfare you don’t get? The services provided help the general welfare of our society.
    Don’t forget Bill Gates Sr and Prescott Bush in the mix of people who started PP.
    Here is the undisputable fact about abortion, if it is illegal poor women will die. Despite the false idea that people had less sex back in the day poor women have always had to risk their lives with child bearing where women of means will go to where they can get safe procedures. Whether those procedures child delivery of fetus abortions.

    Like

  10. fish Avatar
    fish

    What is your approach at replacing all of the services provided by planned parenthood?
    It’s not my approach as it’s not my problem.
    What is it about the general welfare you don’t get? The services provided help the general welfare of our society.
    If you want to make it a “general welfare” issue it’s subject to political discussion. Partial birth abortion is more often than not a convenience service. If you guys can turn a profit mechandising the leavings of terminated pregnancies (apparently a lucrative endeavor) then Planned Parenthood can afford to carry more of the load themselves. Don’t you ever get tired of walking around with your hand out?
    Don’t forget Bill Gates Sr and Prescott Bush in the mix of people who started PP.
    Defending billionaires now Ben are we…….I guess they’re just fine when they are doing what you think important.
    The fuck do I care who started it……maybe you should tell them to fund it!
    Here is the undisputable fact about abortion, if it is illegal poor women will die.
    Nowhere in todays argument was making abortion illegal discussed. You think it’s important you find a way to pay for it! Payment plan, cleaning the lobby at Planned Parenthood clinics….I’m sure something can be worked out.

    Like

  11. Steven Frisch Avatar
    Steven Frisch

    Posted by: fish | 15 August 2015 at 02:37 PM
    Abortion is a legal medical procedure and as such it should be funded equally with every other legal medical procedure whether any of you agree with it or not….and when the wheel turns we are coming after the Hyde amendment too.
    It should be funded equally with Todd’s vasectomy 🙂

    Like

  12. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Medical procedure? Yes Steve Frisch, that was how Joseph Mengele characterized his work. As did the Japanese 713 division. My goodness you libs are just ghouls. Poor women should stop having sex with poor men and then maybe life would be much better? Why doesn’t SBC head into the classrooms and teach those little urchins about abstinence? Oh, no money in that for you people?
    Ben Emery never answers our questions as proven once again. But he can go to bed knowing that other people’s money is confiscated for the peccadilloes of people who can’t control themselves.
    Abortion is a horrendous thing but if it must be then all I am asking is you pay for it for youelf and the sperm donor. Not the taxpayers.

    Like

  13. George Rebane Avatar

    BenE 154pm – Are all liberals inept at the fine art of reading English?? I presented an alternative approach to providing such services in my commentary, which had you understood it, should have elicited an acknowledged and reasonable response in the form of a criticism or an amplification (an ‘attaboy’ would be too much to expect). For the uninformed, such services are already also provided by a number of charitable organizations one of which I cited in my Union piece and is located right here in our community. Bottom line, contrary to liberal hysteria, PP is not the only game in town and can readily be divested from its more gruesome work going forward.
    One wonders how you guys get along when dealing with copy that is more to your liking. But the diligence shown over the years by our progressive readers is of a part with the Pelosi Principle of when to read legislation that ties with Obama’s Orders on when to read trade treaties and international agreements before approving them. Maybe that also explains everything that goes on in these comment streams – we must just accept it as the nature of the beast – birds of a feather and all that.

    Like

  14. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    First of all – the G. V. Union does not seem to paywall most of the oped and letters. Just my experience.
    Now we get to the good stuff.
    Mr Frisch at 3:19 – “Abortion is a legal medical procedure and as such it should be funded equally with every other legal medical procedure whether any of you agree with it or not…”
    Ahem – plastic surgery is legal and it is a ‘medical procedure’.
    Dr Rebane’s last post nipped mine in the bud. Once again, we see the left going off with their hair on fire because they are seemingly unable to read English.
    And finally – “What is it about the general welfare you don’t get?”
    General welfare means ‘everybody’ – that is every legal American citizen. Most Americans don’t need or want an abortion. The Dept of Defense works for every body. And so on. I understand general welfare perfectly. Don’t try to re-define terms.

    Like

  15. Jon Avatar
    Jon

    28% of American women have had an abortion, and likely an equal percentage strongly considered it or could not follow through for some reason.
    That’s a pretty damn large percentage of American women. But Scott and crew, being the good Republicans, know better. Men always know best in Republican circles. Republican men really need to make these decisions for the majority of American women. It makes them feel special.

    Like

  16. George Rebane Avatar

    Jon 648pm – Jon, I do believe you are over agitated and blowing it out of the wrong end. Besides your total abortions percentage being unfounded, it is also irrelevant since the preponderance of Americans are against abortions at various stages of gestation. And this preponderance consists of MORE women than men if the sampling procedures of the cited polls have been conducted correctly.
    All these accusations against Republicans seem to be the stuff of histrionics. Someone once observed ‘It isn’t that liberals can’t think, it’s just that they have such bad luck when they try.’

    Like

  17. Bonnie McGuire Avatar

    Here’s a consciousness raising story and pictures regarding twin boys who were prematurely born at 22 weeks….and died.
    http://liveactionnews.org/miscarried-22-weeks-identical-twins-sharing-truth-abortion/

    Like

  18. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    My, my. Exciting day. Been wondering how long it would take from the discussion of selling dead baby parts to a wholesale hyperventilating on abortion in general. BTW, it’s $75.00 a “specimen”, agreed to by staff at PP and on tape #5. And tape #4 makes the first 3 tapes look like a kindergarten at nap and milk time. Glad to release the transcripts anytime.
    Brothet Ben, the voice of the downtrodden and voiceless, who is also against war, killing with guns, and capital punishment is all for killing a child. The more dead babies the merrier. And those two opinion piece writers are the most convincing living breathing argument for abortion I have seen since I read the fat man’s blog many moons ago. Well, it is indeed a tragedy that the aforementioned bucket of lard somehow survived his Mama’s many attempts to suck him out of her womb with a Hoover and hot dog tongs. Can’t blame her for trying.
    So, all the enlighten peaceniks are ok with killing 100’s of thousands of black babies, but not ok with the fact that a black is shot by police every 9 days. Seems the scales are out of balance, IMHO. It is also my humble opinion that the difference between a bucket of lard/shit and our local purple food consumer who survived numberous abortions is merely the bucket. Big difference to some, all the same to me.
    Well, good to see the libholes get all up in arms over the choice to mangle babies with ten toes, ten fingers, a strong heartbeat, all ready to jump out the starting gate. They choose death, unless it is a thug like Michael the Strong Armed Robber Brown (brown like what I leave floating in the porcelain libbowel punch bowl) or somebody on Death Row for raping and torturing 80 year old grandmothers. They are soooo enlighten.
    https://www.facebook.com/RowdyConservatives/photos/a.254420818025296.63999.217926015008110/715406131926760/?type=1&theater
    Hey, flower power and love to you defenders of the Grim Reaper:
    http://patriotpost.us/posts/36887
    Have at it boys, wholesale slaughter to your big caring heart’s content. It’s lawful so it must be moral, right?

    Like

  19. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    Let’s see – 28% of approximately 50% of the population of America. Jon thinks that’s a majority?
    All Americans, jon. Not some percent of 50%.
    You give morons a bad name. What part of all is hard to understand?

    Like

  20. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Oh Scott, the progressive have always been notoriously bad at math, especially when it comes to difficult problems that require counting on your fingers. You lost me on your last two sentences. Is this what your meant:
    https://www.facebook.com/RowdyConservatives/photos/a.217983685002343.55586.217926015008110/714862325314474/?type=1&theater
    Or maybe this:

    Like

  21. Steven Frisch Avatar
    Steven Frisch

    “Republican men really need to make these decisions for the majority of American women.”
    Jon did not say that the majority of American women have had abortions Scott. You missed his modifier about the plurality of American women who have not had abortions but agreed with those that had. Can’t you read you moron.
    And Fish, you are in the same boat shi#head 🙂

    Like

  22. Steven Frisch Avatar
    Steven Frisch

    By the way, here are the latest Gallup numbers on abortion..
    http://www.gallup.com/poll/1576/abortion.aspx
    Right now fully 80% of Americans believe abortion should be legal in at least some circumstances.
    Since the current line with many is ‘under no circumstances’ I would say that if this were a question of public opinion you would be losing pretty badly.

    Like

  23. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    “At least in some circumstances.’ That is a widely shared view of course. Some circumstances does not equate to most circumstances. “Beware the slippery slope” the libs shout. Meanwhile, there is little grief counseling for those millions of women who carry their shame and deep regret all their remaining days. We need more grief counseling for those who consider it the biggest mistake of their lives. A heavy burden they carry without one iota of doubt. Yes, they were young and foolish. Some mistakes they can laugh about or forget. Other mistakes haunts them every single week of their lives in the dead of night. Maybe death will bring them relief. I certainly hope so. I can only imagine what guilt a mother has who kills her own child. Beyond words.
    Lest I be amiss, “Happy Mother’s Day” Cheryl Cooks.

    Like

  24. Steven Frisch Avatar
    Steven Frisch

    The detail of the circumstances are in the tabs below the main findings. Any way you cut it Americans support abortion rights and my guess is if you split this poll data out between male and female respondents you would find the number are even higher with women.
    So the bottom line is Jon was correct, Scott is full of crap and can’t read.
    It really is just humor you know….you guys are like a trip to 1955.

    Like

  25. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: Steven Frisch | 15 August 2015 at 08:10 PM
    And Fish, you are in the same boat shi#head 🙂

    Emoticon aside you’ll note that at no point in the discussion did I hint at restricting the procedure…..much like the SBC it seems everybody thinks that there is an endless well of tax dollars to spend. Lots of things are legal, muscle cars, AR-15s, R rated slasher movies…..nobody thinks that those are a legitimate sink for public largesse. If insurance pays for it then hey by all means have one everyday.
    It doesn’t matter anyway. I know we will continue to slog long as we have…until the money eventually runs out. If you’re fortunate you might check out before that happens secure in the knowledge that everything was just okey dokey!

    Like

  26. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Well Steve, I guess what we have in common here (along with Fish), is that we aren’t at the fair. When I discovered I could give the girls a few wads of twenties and the bus would shuttle them back, my fair going days were over! Plus, I can’t shake the memory of that unseemly incident of watching Jeffried stuck in those wide Ferris Wheel seats and all those public servants trying to pry his lardass free. The lines were long enough to start with and the wait time greatly increased while they greased his rear and brought out the Jaws of Life.. Heard 5 strong men filed for workmen’ comp immediately afterwards due to back strains.
    Ok, let’s get down to the nuts and bolts. First, the Supreme Court said abortion is legal, thus the unwritten law of the land. That is where we are today, at this moment. No President or polical party or advocacy group will change that. Thus it’s all about blowing smoke up each other’s asses. Period.
    To me the question is not one of legal or illegal, but rather, is it right? Is it moral, is it ethical? Citing polls is not the issue. Winning arguments is not the issue. Is it right? Does it bolster the values of our country, our society or harm it. Does abortion bring injury to society or uplift it? This is a question only the individual can decide. It abortion right? We all know it is legal, duh. Well, is it right or wrong in your opinion, not mine???

    Like

  27. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    “Jon did not say that the majority of American women have had abortions Scott.”
    I never claimed that he did say that. You need to learn to read.
    I was talking about the fact that ‘general welfare’ refers to everyone. The population at large, if you will. His retort was about 28% of 50% of the population.
    How is 28% of 50% considered all?
    General welfare is not about a minority of the population.
    “Right now fully 80% of Americans believe abortion should be legal in at least some circumstances.”
    And I’m one of them.
    “Since the current line with many is ‘under no circumstances’ I would say that if this were a question of public opinion you would be losing pretty badly.”
    You’re shouting into the wind, Steven Frisch.
    You have to slow down and READ all of the posts and think about what you’ve read and then we can have a conversation.

    Like

  28. Jon Avatar
    Jon

    Hey Scott, I believe you’re an active churchgoing Christian. In reality, you act here like a total disingenuous, dishonest jackass who changes the narrative as you see fit. Where did anyone say or imply a majority of American women have had an abortion? The actual percentage of 28%, sourced in multiple places if you care to look, is a pretty damn large portion of American women. Women I know and have known. Good, kind hearted church going Christians with tremendous compassion and good will in their hearts.
    And for George- Where in the world do you find that the majority of Americans oppose abortion at all the various stages? That pendulum done swung several years back, and your opinion of facts is so off base as to be laughable. But I’m sure the Mike Huckabee campaign can produce some poll of evangelicals to inform the American people. He will bring in the National Guard to guard abortion clinics if elected. Fortunately, he will never get near the White House.
    American women support reproductive rights, proven in national elections, over and over and over.

    Like

  29. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    “Where did anyone say or imply a majority of American women have had an abortion?”
    I dunno – you and Frisch are the only ones saying that.
    Again – for those that have trouble reading – I’m talking about the idea of ‘general welfare’.
    Since Frisch and jon both admit that only a minority of women have abortions, it’s not to be considered part of ‘general welfare’.
    Or do I have to draw a picture?
    I didn’t change any narrative at all, just commenting on the misuse of the term general welfare to be expanded into services on demand for a minority of people. That’s not what the Fed govt is for.

    Like

  30. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Just checking to see where the libs here get their info on abortion and ran across this.
    https://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_IAW.html?gclid=Cj0KEQjw6cCuBRCh4KrGoJ6LoboBEiQAwzYsdF9gpdtJL5Xa0RAgxCeVizkvXCkqyB-GEOR64fNeSygaAkVL8P8HAQ
    Hope it woks. Anyway it is 19 per 1,000 women of child bearing age in North America. Isn’t that .28 percent? Jon said 28%. So he is off by what, 100 times!
    This link is full of stats and one that got my attention was 85% of all abortions are to single women.
    http://www.abort73.com/abortion_facts/us_abortion_statistics/
    Still looking for theFrisch claim about 28% of all women had one.
    I am opposed to taxpayers paying for the abortions. Of course they will occur and always have in some form. Knowing a woman never listens to her man anyway,m why would I try to tell them what to do. The libs like Frisch etal use that as red herring. Has Frisch ever been involved in a abortion? If yes, any residual guilt of killing a baby?

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  31. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    One more thing. This is the Gallup on the issue. Jon will not read it.
    http://www.gallup.com/poll/170249/split-abortion-pro-choice-pro-life.aspx

    Like

  32. George Rebane Avatar

    re Jon 1021pm – the liberals’ reading skills remain on full display. Nowhere did I say that “the majority of Americans oppose abortion at ALL the various stages”. The gratuitous insertion of ‘all’ is a well-used trick to construct a strawman that can then be ceremoniously demolished. And then of what facts are my opinions laughably off base? Another empty or uninformed charge without any support. If the man would be more widely read, then he and those like him would realize that the thoughts and ideas discussed in these pages share an enormous currency in the land. Only restricting their input to the lamestream would cause one to embrace such a narrow view of what is happening in the land.

    Like

  33. Steven Frisch Avatar
    Steven Frisch

    Here is an interesting statistical based commentary using the Guttmacher data that sources my statement:
    http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/uslifetimeab.html
    Here is the actual Guttmacher source:
    http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/2008/09/18/Report_Trends_Women_Obtaining_Abortions.pdf
    I suggest you go to the Guttmacher source and actually read it, something I know you are not prone to do, because you just either a) make shit up, or b) deny information even when it is clearly right in front of your noggin.

    Like

  34. George Boardman Avatar

    How come no women of child-bearing age are contributing to this discussion? Maybe they’re tired of men telling them what to do with their bodies, or maybe they just don’t give a damn about what men think.
    To lighten the load, consider this:
    A priest, a minister and a rabbi are invited to a public forum to debate the question, “When does life begin?”
    The priest gets up and says: “Life begins at conception.”
    The minister gets up and says: “Life begins at birth.”
    The rabbi gets up and says: “Life begins when the dog dies and the children leave home.”

    Like

  35. fish Avatar
    fish

    How come no women of child-bearing age are contributing to this discussion? Maybe they’re tired of men telling them what to do with their bodies, or maybe they just don’t give a damn about what men think.
    1) Maybe you should ask them.
    2) Tough…as long as they want tax dollars to pay for their mistakes we get some input.
    3) See item 2

    Like

  36. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    So a man gets in the sack with a gal, they have consensual sex and he deposits his DNA. The little zygote is created and starts forming into a human. The woman, without asking the sperm donor, deletes the life. Is that fair?

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  37. George Rebane Avatar

    StevenF814am – Again in your habitual obeisance to self-constructed strawmen, you are defending a hill unassaulted. What point are you trying to make with data purporting to show the frequencies of women having had abortions? (BTW the charts should have been histograms and not continuous functions which actually falsify the data, a point apparently missed by the protagonists of abortion.)
    I do wonder what constitutes and abortion in Guttmacher’s underlying dataset which combines both “abortion and contraceptive services”. Is taking a ‘morning after’ pill counted – perhaps as a contraceptive service – since it does technically abort a just fertilized egg that is now rapidly dividing? Most women would consider such a pill or its equivalent as just being conveniently deferred contraception.
    Nevertheless, a tighter coupling of the statistics of abortion and attitudes on abortion would be useful, and show that you understand the thrust of my commentary.

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  38. Steven Frisch Avatar
    Steven Frisch

    Posted by: George Boardman | 16 August 2015 at 09:35 AM
    What a great question George 🙂 I think I know, but what do you think?

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  39. Steven Frisch Avatar
    Steven Frisch

    Posted by: Todd Juvinall | 16 August 2015 at 10:12 AM
    I should have known!

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  40. Steven Frisch Avatar
    Steven Frisch

    Posted by: George Rebane | 16 August 2015 at 10:39 AM
    Well George, I was answering a question someone here asked me.

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  41. George Rebane Avatar

    StevenF 1049am – Well Steve, a little more precision would then be appreciated. Your 814am came right after my 800am, and you used the pronoun “you” as if you were addressing me. If that was not the case, identifying the comment or commenter that you address would better serve the readership.

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  42. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    What about your answer Steve (or equilavent)? Not the right to choose. Not polls. You do think it is right or wrong??? Not what women or men think. What is your thoughts on this matter. Not events or even facts. Ideas I am after. You know, “Small minds talk about events and great minds talk about ideas” and all that.
    The safe answer would be its none of my or your business. But, give it a stab. Is good for society having 850,000 abortion each year? Ain’t asking what the definition of is is. What does that say about our culture besides there be a whole lot of sexual intercourse and fornicating out of wedlock going on. A whole lot of playing hide the salami is nothing new under the sun. Not even asking if abortion is the right course of action for millions of our female genders of the homosapain race? (Spelling??) Not asking if it is immoral to ban abortion or moral to have abortion unrestricted. Nay, is it right/good in and of itself, in your opinion?
    Not a trick question, but a wise person would neatly sidestep the issue to avoid ridicule. Not a PC topic for sure. Come on, give it a stab. It is only your opinion, nothing else. And your opinion matters more to you than others if you are a normal person.
    Everytime I hear “I support the 2nd Amendment, but….”, I shudder. No buts, no ifs, no disclaimers and qualifiers. I think it is bad for society in and of itself, not even talking about the lesser of two evils. What say you or anybody.

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  43. Steven Frisch Avatar
    Steven Frisch

    Posted by: Bill Tozer | 16 August 2015 at 11:32 AM
    Bill, I think you are asking for a response that is ‘yes’ or ‘no’ but the question does not lend itself to a simple answer.
    But I will try.
    I support a woman’s choice to select an abortion through the second trimester of pregnancy, and at any time if the pregnancy was the result of rape or incest, or the life of the mother is at risk.

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  44. George Rebane Avatar

    Administrivia – The 16aug15 update to this post has now been appended.

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  45. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Steve; Yep, I did not expect a simple yes or no from anyone to tell ya the truth. I have come out and said what I think of abortion in and of itself. Think it is bad for society, our culture, and unethical. Sure, it’s a tough choice and many gray moving parts involved.
    Once had to attend yet another PC course. The topic turned from legal stuff to ethics. While the class was stumped with the question the teacher posed about lying, I asked her a question which she avoided. My retort was “You are hiding Jews in the house in Nazi Germany. The SS officers come and ask you if you have any Jews hiding there. What would the ethical answer be in the context of lying?” Tell the truth and Jews die, or lie? I know most pro-choices would attach disclaimers and qualifiers, but the question posed was do you personally think abortion is moral in and of itself? Simple yes is my answer before getting into the higher good or the nuts and bolts of abortion services for whom and the indivuals’ present circumstance and state of mind and other factors.
    You are off the hook. I am on to other things.

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  46. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Lets slow down a bit and look at the Republican platform on abortion . Here is a quick summary
    “The Republican platform on abortion has four main elements, which have been fought for, ever since they were outlined in the 1984 platform. They are: that an unborn child has a “fundamental individual right to life which cannot be infringed,” the endorsement of a “human life” constitutional amendment, which would ban abortion, a call for judges who “respect human life” by supporting such an amendment, and new laws to state that the fetus is a “person” under the 14th Amendment. ”
    It is safe then to assume the Republicans are opposed to all abortions and procedures including the “morning after” pi ll since it disrupts fertilization after it occurred. Pretty tough stuff here.
    http://www.republicanviews.org/republican-views-on-abortion/

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  47. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    So, Paul, do YOU personally think abortion in and of itself is good for the country? Is it moral in your view? Does abortion (legal or illegal) edify our community, and raise the standards of The Good? Is it ethical, in and of itself? Is abortion amoral, immoral, or moral in general terms?

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  48. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Juxtapose the lefts position on say Abu Graib. Now the left said placing womans panties on the heads of terrorists was not the American way. These same people say destroying their own people’s babies in the womb is just the “American way”. Is everyone now confused?

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