Rebane's Ruminations
July 2015
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George Rebane

[This is the transcript of my regular KVMR commentary aired on 29 July 2015.  Later – a slightly edited version of this piece was published in 7aug15 issue of The Union and on its website here.]

By now we have all seen the videos of Planned Parenthood physicians at lunch enjoyably selling their wares into an apparently lively market of fetal body parts.  The casual abandon evident in those conversations was one upped by the most recent release of a video made in a body parts lab where the staff displayed sampled remains of tiny humans ready for shipment (see nearby photo).  Whether you’re for or against abortion, the new revelations of these dealings in purposely killed human flesh gives most of us pause, and perhaps asks us to re-examine what kind of industry have we created, and where such obviously callous treatment of human life can take us.  First some background.

FetalTissueAccording to the Centers for Disease Control and the National Institutes of Health over 860,000 abortions are performed annually in the US.  Over 330,000, or almost 40%, of these are performed in Planned Parenthood clinics.  Never mind that they claim these abortions make up only 3% of their “services”, because of the way a ‘service’ is defined the real scope of the organization’s abortion factory is hidden from the casual reader.  Another way to size the problem is to consider that more than one out of six pregnancies in America terminate in an abortion.

What, you ask, is really being aborted?  We can all acknowledge that it is a pre-born human being who at 25 weeks into gestation has more than a 50-50 chance of surviving birth and growing into a normal adult.  And by law, such premature infants are guaranteed the care they need to survive.  Nevertheless, until 2003 Planned Parenthood and other private abortion clinics regularly performed partial birth abortions in which a viable baby was killed by mangling its brain with scissors or snipping its spinal cord while any part of it remained in the birth canal.  Today it is still possible to kill a viable human in the same manner through an intra-uterine procedure – in short, you can circumvent the law by doing the deed before any legally defined components of the child are sticking out.  Within these considerations it is up to each of us to define at what point in the gestation cycle, including the baby’s birth, does ‘fetal tissue’ become a human being.

Now we know that fetal tissue has been used beneficially for medical research for some decades, so that is not the issue here.  Such tissue can be obtained from miscarriages and emergency abortions that sacrifice the child to save the mother’s life.  No one is arguing that the use of tissues obtained from these fetal deaths should not be available for beneficial medical research.  What we are considering is at what point in the development of a viable human being is it still legal to put it to death without due process.  And what is the impact of that on today’s society, especially on the lives of the poor, and where is making abortion cheap and facile taking us as a society?

Today the careful crunching of babies is legal, and strongly motivated by both the profit motive and an encompassing government that seeks to inject itself into the most intimate parts of our lives.  It is easy to see how profit motivates, but understanding government’s involvement requires digging a bit deeper.  First, let’s dispense with notions like ‘Black lives matter’ – given the overwhelming murder of blacks by blacks, and that the share of abortions performed on poor black women, we know that black lives matter only in the rare cases when there are non-blacks involved in the death of a post-partum African-American.  And in those cases it is obvious that another agenda is being promoted wherein such deaths, no matter their legitimacy, serve a useful purpose.

So where are we going as we demand that government pay for more and more of our daily upkeep?  The more it does that, the more government claims a right to make decisions for the common good at the cost of denying the claims of any individual.  How long until a subsequently diagnosed three-week old baby is put to death in order to save society the enormous cost of subsidizing its lifelong care, and spare its family the burden of giving such care?  So for the common good, does it not serve a more noble purpose for Planned Parenthood to determine where best to crunch such infants so that their short lives can be of greatest benefit to us all?

My name is Rebane, and I also expand on this and related themes on georgerebane.com where the transcript of this commentary is posted with relevant links, and where such issues are debated extensively.  However my views are not necessarily shared by KVMR.  Thank you for listening.

[We close with a H/T to reader for alerting me to Ramirez whose cartoons say so much in so little space.]

PlannedParenthood_Ramirez

Posted in , ,

135 responses to “Planned (alternative to) Parenthood”

  1. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    “Scott, I could go back through all the posts you’ve made and come up with many instances where you (and others on this blog) are against supporting education, food stamps, pre-school care, etc”
    Patricia apparently can’t read English – the original claim she made about me was that I appeared to be a person that was against children being fed, educated and housed.
    I ask for proof and she has provided none.
    Instead she brings up the fact that I’m (gasp) against govt waste, programs such as head start that have proven to be ineffective, and costly, fraudulent programs such as food stamps.
    Patricia and most libs constantly go back to the tried and true smear that if you don’t support their version of how to solve a problem, then you must not want to solve the problem. It’s childish and tiresome.
    Just to prove how ignorant she is, Patricia provides her own example:
    “I care more about the living than the unborn.”
    Uh – Patricia – pssst, the unborn are living. And you think it’s okie dokie to kill them and sell the parts.
    Have a splendid Sunday!

    Like

  2. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: Scott Obermuller | 02 August 2015 at 11:24 AM
    Patricia apparently can’t read English….

    Indeed…..no need to read when she can just run her internal narrative at her convenience.

    Like

  3. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Too much ganga.

    Like

  4. Patricia Smith Avatar

    Scott, if you are against gov’t programs to support underprivileged children then where do you suggest they get their basic needs fulfilled? If you can show how these mothers are supposed to feed, clothe, and educate their offspring without government help, I’ll withdraw my criticism. Otherwise you are talking out of both sides of your mouth. Project HeadStart has been proven a great success. educating our young is a great way to keep them from a life of poverty. Food stamps are fraudulent? Have you ever tried to get them? The bar is pretty damn low. So you want to prevent poor mothers from getting an abortion when they can’t care for their offspring, but you don’t want to help provide for them if the elect to have the child? This is why you and conservatives in general are doomed in this country.
    Bill, Until there is proof that PP sold body parts, it is irresponsible to clam they did. As I stated in an earlier post, a Republican governor did an investigation into these claims in his state and found them utterly without merit. But when did facts ever stop you guys?
    Todd, I think your problem is a LACK of ganga. It does tend to open one’s mind to think for themselves instead of spouting the party line.

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  5. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Patricia Smith 12:23 PM
    Seriously? You actually believe smoking dope opens your mind? You are farther gone than I suspected.

    Like

  6. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: Patricia Smith | 02 August 2015 at 12:23 PM
    This is why you and conservatives in general are doomed in this country.

    …and that is how it should be…..leave it for the progressives to explain to the inner cities why the EBT cards aren’t working any longer.
    Todd, I think your problem is a LACK of ganga. It does tend to open one’s mind to think for themselves instead of spouting the party line.
    Your early forays into weed aided college dorm room “deep thought” bull sessions hardly qualify as “opening one’s mind” Patricia!

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  7. Don Bessee Avatar
    Don Bessee

    Perhaps patty could explain why they all only spout the party lines over and over? Buzzed and forgot they already said it! LOL

    Like

  8. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Well, I suppose Hillary and Patricia are correct. It takes a village to raise a child, which is a different issue than selling “unborn” parts, which also seems a bit over the top to those with normal healthy sensibilities.
    Unborn? Ah, another term to be grouped in with “the blob”. Hmmm. Well, carry on with The Attack of The Killer Tomatoes. I have said my piece. BTW, the release of episode 4 is “allegedly” more damaging that the first 3 in the mini-series. More will be revealed. There appears no winners here no what one solitary Governor believes or whether that one unnamed Gov of one state says. We are all losers in this mini-series. I know, it’s all for the children.

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  9. Don Bessee Avatar
    Don Bessee

    Someone needs to get people like patty in a room full of preemies and their parents so she can tell them partial birth and late term abortions only effect ’tissue’ and not a person. Shame. Head start a success? By what metrics?? All relevant statistics on poverty and families show marked deterioration since the lefts enslavement of the inner cities with the certain doom of govt. dependency. God forbid they learn work ethics instead of entitlement. 😦

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  10. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    BillT 12:53 PM
    I wonder if Hillary would move into South Central and then stand on a corner and shout, “it takes a village to raise your little gangbanger”. Whadda ya think?

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  11. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    Patricia at 12:23 – I see you have given up even trying to prove your baseless smear against me. And you have given up on the original topic of this post.
    Now you are off on the typical left wing nonsense that only with a massive, wasteful, fed govt program can children be fed and educated.
    Why not steer this back to the original topic and ask why there is this massive need for birth control via fetus butchery? Why does this society put up with large numbers under age girls having casual sex (with resulting disease and pregnancy) and men that impregnate girls and women with no repercussions? What happened to the idea that children would be raised by a stable 2 parent family?
    The massive federal entitlement program is an utter disaster. We have more poverty than ever, multi-generational entitlement addiction with millions of children year after year never understanding anything about personal responsibility or self sustainment. And on top of that, we now have generation after generation that are raised to believe that human life is worth nothing more than a whim and that it’s OK for a person to decide to kill multiple humans if they are inconvenient.
    Oh yeah, the answer is for every one to get stoned.

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  12. George Rebane Avatar

    Progressive (brainless) mantra – ‘If you’re against government doing X or paying for X, then you are against X being done anywhere by anyone.’
    Since my dialogue with PatriciaS has apparently died, I ask the independent reader to compare the costs of performing abortions and excising body parts to sitting across a desk from a woman and counseling her, or even getting an examination that does not lead to an abortion. Progressives don’t believe govt stats that PP’s 340K annual abortions (40% of national total) are real, or if so, they do not account for the lion’s share of the PP budget. Note PatriciaS’s totally ignoring those facts.
    And claiming that PP is the only place that women can get low cost/free services, again illustrates how they strap on blinders when proof of alternatives is offered – ref my 1021pm. The collectivists cannot see nor will they look past the mantra given above.

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  13. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Juxtapose the liberals pro-abortion at any time with their attempts to save a murderer on death row. They cause the huge expenditure to save the scum on death row and for what? Kill babies, save the murderers. What a philosophy. They cause the taxpayers to pat for both depravities.

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  14. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    “I watch a lot of politics, from Fox to CSPAN, and I wonder if Republicans really realize just how crazy they look to everyday people.”-Frisch 8:02AM 1 Aug
    I watch a lot of politics and I wonder if Frisch realizes just how crazy he looks to Democratic strategists. His dismissal of the planned parenthood baby parts sales videos as being “faux journalism” is an attack on 1st Amendment rights that goes to the core of investigative journalism, and his recent dismissal of 2nd and 5th Amendment rights in his quest to punish gun owners would be the death of any major Democratic candidate. Even Bernie Sanders wouldn’t touch that one.
    Once you decide any right is at the whim of a majority vote, you’re well on your way to authoritarianism… shut up and do what you are told. Or, in the immortal words of Chicago’s Rahm Emmanuel, “We have the votes. Fuck ’em.”
    Steve, abandoning the 5th Amendment in order to have an iron clad universal gun registration and permit scheme in order to gradually disarm the American people would be an abandonment of any hope for a majority for decades. Please, keep it up. Be honest to the people of Nevada County as to the extent of your views.
    Let’s also remember your desire for a meter on every private residential well so the State could send a bill for every gallon of Jerry Brown’s water that you dare to use. Madness.

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  15. Patricia Smith Avatar

    George, I am surprised at how you ignored what I said to make a point. I have addressed every question you asked. Can you produce any cediitable references that supports abortions comprise more than 3% of PP’ total services? And they do counsel women before the decision to get an abortion is made (or not). But counseling a woman doesn’t do a thing to make her financially able to support that child if she carried it to term. Most abortions are had by minority woman. Is there a huge demand to adopt these children? So what is your answer?
    Also can you prove that PP uses Federal dollars to pay for abortons instead of contributions? Because if they do, they are violating the law and I think their opponents would be all over that.
    And it is still an open question whether any body parts were sold or whether they were donated, but please don’t let the lack of proof stop any of you from repeating the claim. (Do you have a problem with someone’s life being saved with donor organs? Isn’t that making the best out of a bad situation?) And no one responded to the fact that you can get paid for organ donations already in Pennsylvania.
    You say that because you don’t support gov’t programs for the poor that you aren’t necessarily against help from some other quarter. Where? It’s easy to be against something, but what are your solutions? I have stated my position on welfare on this blog in the past, but to recap, I support giving people the tools they need to climb out of poverty for a limited amount of time. i don’t support welfare for life except for people with severe disabilities.
    When Scott says that welfare has increased, why is that? Do you really think people make a conscious decision to live in poverty when there are other opportunities? Do you possibly think corporate America has had a hand in increasing the number of people living in poverty? Or is it all the government’s fault?
    The differnce between me and most of your bloggers is that I see shades of gray and most of you see black & white (literally). I support the death penalty in some cases, but not all. Too many times, we’ve discovered an innocent person was falsely convicted. I support most gun rights, but not unlimited as we’ve discussed in the past. I support abortion up to the fourth month, but do not support partial birth abortions. So I am not spouting any party line that I know of because, Todd, pot has opened my mind to think for myself.

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  16. fish Avatar
    fish

    Well right out of the Google gate we are treated to a discrepancy in the percentage of abortions performed by Planned Parenthood…

    Planned Parenthood’s chart shows that abortions made up 3 percent of its total services. Another way to measure the group’s abortion services, however, is to divide the total number of abortions by the number of clients. For example, Planned Parenthood said that it “provided nearly 11.4 million medical services for 3 million people” in 2009. Its 2011 fact sheet says it performed 332,278 abortion procedures in 2009. That would mean that roughly one out of every 10 clients received an abortion.

    So while I’m sure that Planned Parenthood tries mightily to keep the percentages down there appears to be a grey area…Patricia.

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  17. George Rebane Avatar

    PatriciaS 324pm – I have explained in detail the difference between ‘3% (abortion) services’ and the cost of those services. Besides, PP doesn’t count all the lead up services to abortion in the 3%. That is fraud. Government data says that one out six pregnancies end in abortion, and PP admits to performing 40% of them.
    To make my point about opposing the sale of body parts, I don’t need to post a comprehensive solution to how poor women’s healthcare is provided in the country. To require such solutions before opposing fraudulent or dysfunctional government activities is simply the ongoing progressive ruse to change the subject.
    And there is no “open question” about the sale of body parts. It is an admitted and recorded part of PP activities, and now parts of the dismal process have been recorded on video (much to the chagrin of progressives who suddenly believe neither their lying eyes or ears).
    Once more around the barn about PP’s use of federal dollars instead of contribution dollars to pay for abortions – what part of budget dollars being fungible don’t you understand?

    Like

  18. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Patricia 3:24 PM She says this
    “The differnce between me and most of your bloggers is that I see shades of gray and most of you see black & white (literally).”
    You are just sorely mistaken. It is we on the right with the open mind. You cherry pick a couple of things but look over the last fifty years in America and guess what? The liberals have penetrates every single aspect of our lives and forced the taxpayers to pat for it all. We are simply trying to salvage the place from the “love” liberals have for regulations and interference in our lives.
    No, Patricia, dope does not open ones mind to grander thoughts, it enslaves you and you become a drone.

    Like

  19. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Well, as a former outspoken Gov of Colorada once uttered off camera and his poetic words got caught on tape, “if those folks would stop buggering each other, then we wouldn’t have this problem”. Of course Governor Roy R was talking about the spread of AIDS back when it was in vogue to be on the front page. Now, if po folk would stop humping like minks, then we would not be having this discussion. Life is sexually transmitted, termination of life is not.
    After reading Patricia’s eloquent 15:34 response, I have two questions. Has anybody seen 50 Shades of Gray and is it any good??? I heard it caused a big stick when some nice school teacher played the movie for our school children by mistake, lol.
    Well, folks, I don’t see everything in black and white. Only Albinos are truly white and I have never seen a person who was black as coal on this side of the pond. Nay, I for one see things as colored. That is because I am a Nazi Racist Member of the Constipation of the Brain Great Right Wing Hard Core Extremist Hate Monger Conspiracy Party. Better than being a mushy member of The Diarreha of the Mouth Party, I reckon.

    Like

  20. Steven Frisch Avatar
    Steven Frisch

    Posted by: Gregory | 02 August 2015 at 03:20 PM
    Seriously Greg, I know you reach to attack my points, but saying this type of journalism is “faux journalism’ is not an attack on the 1st amendment, it is calling the story deeply flawed. That is of course my 1st amendment right 🙂
    Re: the 2nd and 5th.
    The definition of the 2nd changed in 2008 and I don’t agree with it and doubt it will stand the test of time.
    The Constitutional definition of the 5th clearly allows the state to determine what is legal to own and what is not, as a matter of fact it already does in hundreds of cases, and guns are no different than making it illegal to own explosives, heroin or any other controlled substance, some foreign cars, exotic animals, real prosciutto or French Absinthe 🙂

    Like

  21. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    I am sure when the people who come to take America from the Patriots there will be a acceptance party waiting with open arms. Mr Truckee will be there. Unarmed of course.

    Like

  22. Steven Frisch Avatar
    Steven Frisch

    Posted by: Todd Juvinall | 02 August 2015 at 05:29 PM
    I have news for you Todd, I am the proud patriot and you are the quisling to American values.

    Like

  23. George Rebane Avatar

    StevenF 542pm – These, of course, are the new American values to which you refer, not the time-barnacled values of previous centuries that so vexed those on the road to a progressive future. In these pages we have spent years distilling these values from your (and fellow travelers’) writings. However, such distillation has often been fraught with error. Has there yet appeared a clear (hopefully structured) compendium of these values which you so celebrate that can also inform the rest of us? If so, where? I ask so that we too could see the light and rejoice, or continue trembling for our offspring and our country.

    Like

  24. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    ” i don’t support welfare for life except for people with severe disabilities.”
    What’s the time limit?
    What happens after they’re cut off? Patricia claims folks can’t eat if the govt doesn’t feed them.
    Gasp! Patricia is the one that wants to starve children!
    Sorry Patricia, but there are millions that have lived on nothing but the govt dole for generations. Fact.
    They know nothing of work or self-sufficiency.
    I propose that every male in the US that fathers a child and will not or can not support it be given a free trip to the snippers. Any woman that will not co-operate with the authorities in IDing the father, or continues to have babies on the public dole or continues to get pregnant and then aborts gets a free modification of their reproductive parts. You have freedom and rights, but when you start making a living out of existing on the public dime, you lose some of those rights. This may sound extreme, but it would be a magic balm on the societal costs of irresponsible sponges. Far fewer children being raised as animals.
    Far fewer kids being raised with no father. Drastically reduced welfare costs. And the welfare sponges can attempt reproduction techniques all day long with the only cost being the diseases they pass around like trading cards.

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  25. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Steven Frisch | 02 August 2015 at 05:42 PM
    You are the Quisling Fifth Columnist no me. You undermine all the good values of this country. I put you in the category of a group who probably burns the flag and calls that patriotism. No Steve Frisch, you are the quisling, preparing the way for those that will do us harm. You want to disarm the country that has given you refuge and that is what we patriots defend against.

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  26. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    No Steve, the 2nd didn’t change in 2008; SCOTUS returned to the plain meaning that was obvious in the 18th and 19th centuries (refer to the Dred Scott opinion) and to many if not most Americans in 2007. Dems had abandoned infringements on the right of the people to own and carry guns as anything but toxic because of too many elections lost as a result… including Gore v. Bush, where Gore didn’t even carry his home state and many believed it was his stance on guns was the losing issue there.
    Keep the drumbeat rumbling, it could be worth a few points to GOP candidates in 2016.
    Your onerous gun registration scheme can ONLY work if 5th Amendment protections against self incrimination gets deleted; I suppose you think a majority vote in Congress or an executive order is all that’s needed. Good luck with that.
    In short, Steve, you are the Democratic fringe, as is your buddy Jeff, the purple FUE. Enjoy the show.

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  27. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    “The Constitutional definition of the 5th clearly allows the state to determine what is legal to own and what is not…” – Frisch
    What you are missing is that a mandatory registration, especially of a firearm that is illegal after the fact or owned by someone currently forbidden firearms ownership, is a call for someone to turn themselves in. Come in and confess, or we’ll find you guilty of not coming in and confess.
    That’s why all current registration laws in the US, besides being worthless in reducing crime, exempts Felons, the insane, people convicted (or in some cases merely charged) with misdemeanor domestic violence charges are exempt from any registration violations. That’s the 5th Amendment at work, and, in your ignorance, what you are expecting to just wave away.
    It’s obvious your definition of a “faux journalist” is one who investigates your sacred cows.

    Like

  28. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Scott, a few of your proposals were implemented during the Clinton Presidency if memory serves me correctly. And no, the sky did not fall and neither were hordes of people with kids in tow starving in the streets. Then the Obama Administration began to chip away at that gawd awful “Welfare Reform”.
    I liked the part about we will pay for the first few kids, but not any more down the road. Advanced notice. That was a real shocker in the Rust Belt. Welfare reform’s byproduct was to crack down on “dead beat dads” and that was a real shocker as well to the dads. No longer could a young lassie tell the Dad to take a hike and she will raise the kid alone because of the new required IDing of the papa. Give us his name or no check in the mail. The woman should still be a single parent, but somebody better produce the sperm donor’s name so we the people could squeeze a little blood from the turnip.
    I have not idea what the ins and outs of of current policy is, pun intended. Don’t know how many mamas are “forced” Into training to equip and prepare them to seek and obtain employment or if the clock is still ticking on the number of months/years an able bodied parent can keep having the government checks a’rolling in. They used to say 3 or so years are you are outta here, knucklehead.
    I do know what the formerly named Aid to Dependant Children was earmarked for exactly as the name implies. Aid to the children, not the dead beat parents who eagerly spent the checks or not meant to be a lifeline to the parents instead of the children. Yep, I haven’t a clue how welfare reform stands as of this writing.
    I also know that forced castration was declared cruel and unusual punishment by SCOTUS in the 1800’s. Maybe that only dealt with punishment instead of our modern times with numberous birth control options. So much for the Rhythm Method or using Glad Wrap as those were often found to be unreliable or thrown out the window in the heat of passion.
    Anyone that receives one thin dime, one tenth of the dollar from the government has already lost some of their rights, namely liberty and the pursuit of happiness. With all those strings attached, nothing is free. The old sacrifice liberties for security. Or call them freedoms, not rights,if you prefer.
    I can relate. Once when I was not thinking clearly, I turned to my Cherokee Princess spouse and said (being flat broke) “Hey Sugarplum, why don’t you apply for some of that Injun money so we can pay the rent?” Yes, I was drinking heavily at the time and I must have been in an alcohol induced stupor.. She looked at me and said her grandmother on the Rez in Oklahoma told her sternly that “if you ever accept the white man’s money, you sell them your soul.” Wise words from the last Great Chief’s granddaughter who passed own these words of wisdom to her granddaughter.
    Those words have carried me through many rough patches. Life ain’t easy or black or white, unless one seeks to take the easy way out. There is always another option. Just my opinion, nothin’ else.

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  29. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    PS: I was too drunk and prideful to ever apply for Injun money myself. Figured let the lovely squaw do the dirty work, lol. Men are such shiftless beasts. Women do like to nest.

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  30. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    “I also know that forced castration was declared cruel and unusual punishment by SCOTUS in the 1800’s.”
    Yikes! Not that sorta’ snipping!
    The ‘internal’ kind of snipping, please. Cuts off the supply of paratroopers. The rest of the mission can proceed as normal.

    Like

  31. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Scott, I personally do not believe you are against educating children, nor have I ever met anyone who is. What we are against is poor education dooming the future generations. Some take that as anti-teacher. Nay, we (may I say we?)…we are against poor quality public education which includes poor quality teachers stuck in a sub-par government controlled system where parent concerns are pooh-poohed and protection of the status quo is now the top priority.
    Yes, the system is in a Catch 22. They are incapable of delivering a quality product now, and if they try to raise the bar, they fail miserably. The status quo is unacceptable and raising the bar higher guarantees complete and utter failure. They simply cannot do anything but cover their rear ends.
    If you lay your head on the railroad tracks, it’s the locomotive that gets ya, not the caboose. The locomotive is this case is the driving force of a shameful government run public education system that is too cumbersome to change directions and resists anything/anyone that suggests taking a different course. It’s all about protecting the system, not the children in the caboose.
    Get in the back of the bus kids. The first 5 rows are for the teachers and administrators.
    http://nypost.com/2015/08/02/teacher-explains-why-she-passed-student-who-deserved-to-fail/

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  32. Patricia Smith Avatar

    George, what part of causation doesn’t equal correlation don’t you understand? Now you are trying to massage the facts to say that a counseling session is equal to an abortion! I believe we have reached an impasse that will never meet in the middle. You believe life begins at conception, I believe life begins when the fetus can survive on its own without artificial support. Since you cannot support that Federal dollars pay for abortions, what difference does it make how much they cost if they come from contributions? And PP does receive massive amounts of contributions.
    The fact that PP performs 40% of the abortions in this country only shows that so many clinics have been closed, this is the last resort for most women. Here is something for you to ruminate on: if you were to outlaw abortion, all those babies will grow up to vote for Democrats! You would be increasing the voter registrions for Dems by hundreds of thousands every year. Good strategy!
    You very conveniently avoided answering how these women are supposed to care for their children. Not your problem. And yes, a solution is a responsible part of dealing with any problem.

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  33. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: Patricia Smith | 03 August 2015 at 08:58 AM
    George, what part of causation doesn’t equal correlation don’t you understand?

    I’m guessing it’s the part where you reverse the phrase as commonly used.

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  34. Patricia Smith Avatar

    What can I say? I have a slight case of Dyslexia, Fish. Doesn’t change the intent of my point. I could point out numerous misspellings and improper grammar on your part, but it doesn’t add to the conversation.

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  35. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: Patricia Smith | 03 August 2015 at 09:42 AM
    😦
    Typos and misspellings are one thing Patricia….if you are going to call out our host with a commonly used phrase employed in logical argument then my suggestion to you, especially if you are dyslexic, is proofread.

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  36. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    What PS misses is that if you only count the surgeon’s time running the vacuum or crunching the tissue, you’re intentionally understating the cost of providing that service. One could even play games of bundling the sale of the, ummm, uncrunched tissue with the surgeon’s time as a self contained profit/loss center to make it a small percentage.
    To reuse a perfectly good word here, money is fungible and pie charts don’t tell the whole story.

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  37. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Fish, some cultures read left to right and thus, in theory, have lower rates of dyslexia. Proof reading does not help me in the least. I still can’t spell certain words, proof reading or not. And this auto correct feature will simply insert words out of thin air…..words I had no intention of using smack dap into the middle of a sentence and then it does not make sense to me nor the reader.
    No wonder Nixon used recording tapes. No spelling needed. But, noooo, now everyone is afraid of those little dictaphones and we are stuck with Spelling Bees just to tell someone they are off their friggin’ rocker And they said technology would make things easier. Well, it does save trees, but the post office ain’t running in the black, now is it?
    Plus, my lawyer told me never never put down certain things on paper, ever. Save a tree and you got the spelling Nazis all up in arms. Whatz a crystal worshipper to do?? Plus, every time I try to compose a brilliant idea, my spelling and grammar are proof positive I was reared in the public school system. Alas, I am doomed. No place to hide.
    Life was so much less complicated when you could simply give someone the one finger salute. But, nooo. That is considered a Bozo No-No in our Age of Enlightenment.
    Yes, I am sitting on the pity pot this formerly fine morning. Grip this you liberal asswipes. There, I feel so much better now. Feelings over substance is not bad once you try it for awhile.

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  38. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    Patricia – “I believe life begins when the fetus can survive on its own without artificial support.”
    You don’t get to make up medical science with personal beliefs. Once the double helix is formed, it’s human and it’s alive. That is a fact. If you are going to say you don’t care what the facts are, why even have this discussion?
    Also – “You very conveniently avoided answering how these women are supposed to care for their children.”
    How about the way my wife and my mother and my sisters and billions of other women have for eons?
    Patricia is the one avoiding the central issue here. PP is killing humans and selling the body parts.

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  39. George Rebane Avatar

    PatriciaS 858am – An interesting social narrative – ‘Don’t critique anything unless you concurrently present a better solution.’ With regard to poor pregnant women, I do subscribe to a solution. If you aren’t prepared to raise the child, then use contraceptives or abstain. I do support counseling needy women about their sex habits and the consequences of sex. And I even believe that government has a role in supporting such counseling. But I do not believe that the poor, needy, ignorant, wanting, licentious, indigent, lazy, and/or simply greedy have unlimited drawing privileges on my earnings and savings. These beliefs are part of an ideology that is foreign to you and yours. However, the differences and supportive reasoning behind our ideologies are worthy of discussion and debate as these pages already give witness.
    As a practical matter I think the debate, no matter how broad or narrow we want to make it, deserves to take place in the comment stream of an introductory commentary (or two) instead of being expanded and buried in a potpourri of comments. The topic of providing such welfare is important since it is one of the main issues that have riven our country and continue to push us further apart with each passing day.
    Perhaps you might want to compose some ideas on what are the dimensions of responsibility that a civilized society of free people (who seek to live under the aegis of the Bastiat Triangle of Rights) should assume. I would summarize a compendium of my ideas, and then we all could have a go at it to see if there exists common ground.

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  40. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Patricia, what is your position on young poor women getting pregnant. Is it to leave the decision up to them/ Individual rights?

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  41. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Dr. Rebane, great idea. Since the top priority of many folks on the Left is caring for the poor among us, (social justice), why not pen yet another post on caring for the poor? I cannot answer Patricia’s question and the Left’s trump card of “they are poor, what are we going to do about it?” It’s almost as if because someone is poor, they need special treatment, special programs, special this and that and are absolved from the usual pat answers and personal responsibility. It’s the question they always throw back in our faces.
    Patricia’s list of beliefs mentioned in these threads are not as far flung as she is painted, She worked hard long long hours in a very stressful industry as did I back when I had more of a stomach (tolerance level) for neurotic egomaniacs. She was in wardrobe/costume I gather by previous comments, I was in props and armory in “the biz”. Except I bailed after only 9 years. Had enough, thank you very much.
    What do we do with poor women? We all know what our mothers and grandmothers did. But, there are some to which the concept of personal responsibility, hard work, taking initiative, grabbing the bull by the horns, storming the castle gates, and accepting full responsibility is a foreign concept. Poor things, they seemed to be raised that way and haven’t a clue on how to make it in this world without government assistance. Merely speaking of the able bodied among us, not the disabled or the “one offs”.
    So, a good starting point would be a list of priorities of each side’s tenets. We all actually believe basically in the same things, but give items different priorities and greater or lesser emphasis on the pecking order. The Right puts individual liberties and individual responsibility ahead of things like social justice and income inequality while the left puts social items at the top of the list. It’s all a matter of priorities and degrees.
    Lay it out there in a new post, Patricia or Dr. Rebane. What about the poor women who cannot afford another mouth to feed???? How big of a check to cut and for how long?

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  42. Patricia Smith Avatar

    Bill, finally a response that doesn’t revert to the same old points. Yes! We should try to find some solutions – like funding birth control instread of making it more difficult to obtain. Sell bc pills over the counter. Give out condoms in bars. Heck of a lot cheaper than either an abortion or welfare.
    While I fully support a woman’s right to choose, abortions should be rare and the last choice.
    I do believe that there should be a limit on how long one can collect welfare. When there is a deadline looming, many people find jobs quick. But I also believe that they should be trained for a job that would pay enough to get them off welfare – or being able to work parttime while getting an education without giving up your benefits.
    In the either-or scenario, many people figure that they do better on welfare (which is a really low standard) than they would working at a job in a fast-food joint or the equivalent.

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  43. Patricia Smith Avatar

    George, didn’t see your post right away. I would be happy to write out my thoughts on welfare reform – and God knows it needs reform – but I am in favor of fixing it, not scraping it. To make the conversation complete, corporate welfare needs to be addressed as well.
    BTW, birth control has been know to fail. Not every unplanned pregnancy is the result of irresponsible behavior (although, I’ll admit, most probably are.) Abortion should never be a substitute for birth control.
    ASIDE TO FISH: Yes, I will try to proofread more carefully. Sometimes I get caught up in the moment and hit post too rapidly. It’s amzing the errors I see the minute the post goes live. Embarrassing.
    And finally in the I don’t mean to gloat dept: Republicans efforts to defund PP have failed (big shock).

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  44. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    “Abortion should never be a substitute for birth control.”
    Really, Patricia? NEVER? But is usually is, Patricia and just what are you going to do about it?
    Cheer them on.
    “While I fully support a woman’s right to choose…”
    Choose what? If you don’t say what it is they’re ‘choosing’, it shows how cowardly you are about this topic. So they can ‘choose’ to use abortion as birth control, which you just claimed they should NEVER do, except now they have this as a ‘right’.
    How stoned do you have to be to come up with this sort of illogic?

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  45. Jon Avatar
    Jon

    Patricia’s logic is the logic the majority of Americans agree with.

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  46. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    “Abortions should be rare and the last choice”. Most would agree with that statement in and of itself.. Dr. Rebane would probably agree with that, but I dare not speak for others. But, that statement is merely theory, not reality. Anyone can buy rubbers over the counter at gas station convince stores of all places. A Dr. or Nurse Practioner or a PA can prescribe a year’s worth of “the pill”. But, that has not made a dent in the abortion rates or numbers as far as I can tell. The difference between a light bulb and a pregnant woman is you can unscrew a lightbulb,
    The pro-life and pro-choice sides will never agree because it is literally a matter of life and death. Most pro-lifers make exceptions for endangering the life of the mother just as most anti-capital punishment folks will make one exception once in a blue moon for some of the most heinous unspeakable crimes, but neither side never really budges much. But, besides a few clearly predefined exemptions to the rules, there is no in between, no middle ground, and never the twain shall meet. It is either murder or it is not. Either life begins at conception, or it does not. Either capital punishment is societal murder and unacceptable or it is not.
    I hope that most folks here would agree that selling baby parts as a source of income is one of the most despicable acts to come down the pike in a long time, be it in theory or reality. But, if we cannot get to some sort of common ground on this one very narrow clearly defined issue (again, be it in theory or actual practice), then there is no use continuing on the yellow brick road hand in hand. Core beliefs will not be swayed by even the world’s most persuasive orators.

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  47. Patricia Smith Avatar

    Scott, you are a very rude dude that always resorts to belittling anyone who disagrees with you. You make these ridiculous statements like “what are you going to do about it (seeing that women don’t use abortion as a substitute for birth control.” Probably the same thing you will do: fight for laws that support our points of view.

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  48. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    I support the right of a woman to decide to kill the developing human inside her, or, more precisely, I do not personally grant the government the power to stop her, her doctor or her pharmacist from doing it or to punish them for it… most of the time.
    I think it’s truly not the government’s business in the first trimester (or thereabouts), and it’s within the government’s power to see to an informed consent in the 2nd trimester. Third trimester… bets are off. It’s a baby (lest we forget, fetus is latin not for lump of tissue in the womb, it’s latin for BABY) and I think the ethics are similar to those for separating conjoined twins. A normal delivery is dangerous to a woman, and she should not be forced to bear, for example, an anencephalic baby or one suffering other heartbreaking, severe birth defect that dooms the child. Exactly where to draw the line is beyond my ken, not to mention that of the Congress.
    An addendum: “truly not the government’s business” should include not paying for elective abortions.

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