Rebane's Ruminations
July 2015
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George Rebane

This is in the Letters to the Future department.  We recently had two more multiple killings in the US – one man killed two and wounded nine with a handgun in a Louisiana movie theater, another two young brothers stabbed five family members to death in their Oklahoma home (more here).  This follows the murder of five military service members in Tennessee the week before.  And it wasn’t that long ago before more multiple murders were committed, and before that even more.  There definitely seems to be a correlated sequence of multiple killings from unexpected ambush going on in our land.  And none of them are crimes of forceful takings; there was no robbery or confiscation of material things by the killers, they just wanted to kill as many people as possible before (usually) taking their own lives or being killed by police.

All of these killings receive extensive media attention.  Regular programming is interrupted with detailed reports, more often than not containing very little additional information but repeating in great detail what was reported before.  The media outlets seem to be in a frenzy to compete with each other as they broadcast live from the crime scenes the very latest developments no matter how insignificant, just to have another excuse to comfort their audiences so that they will not miss a jot or jiggle about the latest tragedy.

The killers seem to be of two distinct groups – the mentally weak/deranged and the ideologically driven.  The Tennessee killings were definitely motivated by Islamic globalism, and was the latest of a long string of such inspired killings in America.  The Louisiana killing had components of both a deranged ideology and a deranged psychology.  The Oklahoma killings were committed for unknown reasons by two deranged sons of a larger family, and seem to have no greater motivation than some intra-family tensions.  Yet they all have a common thread in that whatever the dissatisfaction was, it was best solved by multiple killings that would draw a known measure of national and international attention to the killers and their causes.

To me it becomes more clear with every episode that such killing sprees are triggered and, perhaps even motivated by the coverage that the previous occasions of murder and mayhem received.  The common mentality of the killers seems to be that their final ‘moment in the sun’ is clearly worth the loss of their lives and/or lifelong freedom.  The question quickly arises how would the frequency and magnitude of such killings be affected if they each did not receive the media circus that each has to date launched.  Would they continue to be so attractive to the next potential killer if the ‘glory component’ were removed or greatly reduced?

When you consider the number of borderline deranged or ideologically primed people out there who are drawn and positively impacted by today’s lurid and drawn out coverage of these events, it staggers the imagination about what is yet to come.  We can get a sense of the numbers when we consider poll results of our indigenous Muslim population.  The results from a poll by the liberal Migration Policy Institute are reported here.

To arrive at an estimate of the deranged one need only to consult the ‘Mental Illness Facts and Numbers’ published by the National Institute of Mental Health (Download Mentalillness_factsheet).  It would be extremely conservative to assume that in the US at least one person in 100,000 is in a mental state that a continuing reportage of single person carnage would trigger them to seriously consider perpetrating one such event themselves in order to bring their own condition to some state of conclusion or resolution.  If we expand that into a population of 320 million, then there are at least 3,200 of such desperate individuals out there looking at the news and seeing their own vindication in a similar act.  Out of such a population, it is not unreasonable to accept that two or three per year would commit to such a crime, and at least one would proceed undetected to execution.  As the NIMH report indicates, the actual numbers are most likely higher.

So the question stands – do we entice our own mentally ill and religious zealots to commit mass murders by the exhaustive coverage of such events.  I believe we do.  But if that is the problem, then the cure is not clear in a liberal nation whose population is in the large stimulated by circuses rich in death and destruction.  The state cannot readily shut off such reporting, the demand for which has become a cultural imperative for us.

[26jul15 update]  As expected, our liberal commenters would rather not address the point of the above commentary, but immediately rewind and replay their sermons on ‘gun violence’.  This relatively new term is used today by people given to socialism and central planning as a blanket pejorative in their unceasing efforts to disarm America’s civilian population.  One typical approach is to cite the average number of people whose death is caused by firearms, the implied point for the light thinkers being that if we only removed guns from the law abiding population, then this many deaths would be avoided and lives saved.

Today public sentiment dictates that their approach to banning guns must be surreptitious and piecemeal, essentially proscribing the legal usage of guns, making their acquisition range from difficult to impossible, and reducing the availability of ammunition and other gun related equipments.  But their fundamental tack is still to add more gun laws to the books to augment and complicate the unenforced laws already in place.

Apropos to that, Associated Press reports that almost all the recent mass shootings were committed by people whose possession and acquisition of guns was already prohibited by existing laws (more here).  The killers obtained their murder weapons either because government did not enforce a law, or the law’s enforcement went awry through one or more bureaucratic mistakes.  Nevertheless, our progressives’ eternal solution is to pass yet more laws which are guaranteed to suffer the same fate at the hands of criminals, crazies, and the dedicated combatants.  And so goes our national gun debate in 2015.

Posted in , , ,

94 responses to “Do We Invite Carnage? (updated 26jul15)”

  1. Jon Avatar
    Jon

    Please note that the TN killer also noted to have documented mental illness, not strictly ideology. The LA theater killer- mental illness with far/far right wing ideology present as well (ie, hated liberals).

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  2. George Rebane Avatar
    George Rebane

    The TN killer’s ‘mental illness’ is a claim of depression by his family. If that is mental illness, then according to the NIMH we are almost all mentally ill at one point or another. Weak connection when compared to the strong and worldwide established strong connection.
    In our Muslim population, those condoning violence against the US (their own country) number around 700K. That is almost beyond comprehension when considering the potential for killing sprees as time goes on.

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  3. Jon Avatar
    Jon

    George, we are both talking about the homeland, the domestic borders of the US. Many of us believe there are various threats and various ideologies, domestic and foreign, that pose equal problems at the moment. Again, we have plenty of statistics since 911 to analyze.

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  4. George Rebane Avatar
    George Rebane

    Jon 657pm – not to lose sight of the topic here which is the contribution of coverage to carnage.

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  5. Steven Frisch Avatar
    Steven Frisch

    Posted by: George Rebane | 25 July 2015 at 07:02 PM
    Are we seriously talking about the contribution of the media to the carnage while regularly denying here the role easy access to guns, large capacity magazines, and the modern interpretation of the second amendment plays?
    It is like bizarro world.

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  6. Russ Avatar

    Ellen refuses to watch the 10:00PM saga of murder and mayhem. It seems to lead every night on the late news, with some cub reporter standing blocks aways from the event with no new information about what happened, interviewing who ever comes down the street. I just turn off the sound and wait for the weatherman/women to give the weather forecast. Once the weather is over, off goes the TV, I do not want to know what the toothless man in the torn t-shirt, or the overweight lady thinks about what happened, and how nice the victim was. It would be a nice break if the victim was a scumbag once in a while.
    Watching the evening news one gets the impression that murder and mayhem across the nation is growing by leaps and bounds, yet the crime stats indicate it is declining in most normal communities, Chicago and New York do make the normal cut. It seems with crime declining, the press is trying harder and harder to keep the theme alive and well on the late evening news. They seem to be creating the news that crime is rampant.
    One bit of information that seem to crop up in the next to last sound bite is the killer has been, or is currently on psychotropic drugs, for some mental problem. It seems to me if 90% of the killers have used psychotropic drugs, there may be a connection. Thoughts?

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  7. Jon Avatar
    Jon

    Most of the drugs these guys are on are easily obtained with a prescription. These things are certainly not helping, and valid questions to ask. How about we address gun purchase loopholes and such? How is it that these guys are obtaining guns legally on the free market?

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  8. Jon Avatar
    Jon

    By the way Russ, I’m with your wife and your feelings about the news. I’ve gone a step further and cut off satellite service and no local TV.
    Plenty of choices now online without sensationalism. Only problem is streaming major sporting events like the Super Bowl, but usually my family has a tradition that day anyway- spending that winter NorCal Sunday doing something in the great outdoors, then having dinner and if lucky the game may be on a TV in the restaurant. Losing local TV and most of the garbage channels has been a blessing.

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  9. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    “Are we seriously talking about the contribution of the media to the carnage while regularly denying here the role easy access to guns, large capacity magazines, and the modern interpretation of the second amendment plays?”
    I’m sure the easy access to guns is why folks are being stabbed to death.
    “modern interpretation of the second amendment”?
    Whose interpretation?
    What about folks using cars to mow down innocent victims?
    Would you feel better if you were shot with a fire arm with a ‘small’ capacity magazine? What is the proper size of magazine to murder folks with?
    George is trying to fathom the mind of people that commit random killings in order to perhaps lesson the carnage and all we hear from the left is that they are upset about the kind of weaponry being used.

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  10. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    The left fought hard to make sure the mentally ill were guaranteed their constitutional rights back in the late 60’s and early 70’s. They were successful in that endeavor and states closed mental hospitals and tossed them onto the streets. But they have their rights. Another victory for the left.

    Like

  11. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    I ran a lap on the nice rubberized track at some high in Colorado while visiting the area. One week after I left that area the Columbine shooting took place. That track and field area I stumbled across and ran a lap was on the high school grounds…Columbine.
    The news was shocking, but come on people, it did not warrant 24/7 day in and day out coverage leading to the weeks of non-stop repetitious coverage. Enough already.
    Then an Oregon school shooting and a few more copycat school shootings. Was quite the fad for awhile. The common denominator was every school shooter in that period was a kid on anti-depressants. All those head meds each and every shooter was on were (are still are) FDA approved and tested on and for adults, not kids.
    Now, shootings happen so often I don’t even care to read even a paragraph about it. As boring to me as the Michael Brown non news stories. It’s not that the frequencies of the murders fail to get to me anymore. I am just too deeply saddened by where our world is heading to even get excited or riled up about it anymore. If I was a raghead and grew up seeing mass murders and worshippers blown to bits on a every over day occurrence, I would think these evil unspeakable senseless acts of murder were normal. Like, so what, another one bits the dust. But we did not grow up that way or witness hundreds of these horrid episodes. Enough already people, when’s football season starting, or has the snowpack in the higher elevations or the Canadian wilds melted yet????
    I am with Jon. No TV for 2 1/2 years now and only missed it on SuperBowl Sundays, both of them over a 900 day period, give or take. Turn off the boob tube and let the world go to hell in a hand basket.
    The media is responsible as far as folks like to consume that kind of stuff. One of the breaking points for me was the Oakland Earthquake. Yes, a couple dozen souls perished, but friggin damn it, why in the fuk where we subjected to 3 (that’s THREE) weeks straight of the same funking footage of a pancaked bridge? 3 weeks of 24/7 coverage and the same shots of a sandwiched bridge???? It’s only the Bay Area, not someplace important or newsworthy. That started me thinking about taking the tv to the dump. Eventually, I took all 3 to the dump, each still working fine and without any glitches. 3 week coverage of a collapsed Bay Area bridge??? Beam me up, Scottie. Then 3,000 souls lost their lives in an earthquake in China and never even got 20 minutes of coverage. Fuk the Bay Area. It’s not like we are talking about real humans or a real story here. Barely a story and barely human, just like the shooters in the recent color of the week fad in Louzeanna, Bama, and other places.
    Hey Jon, I bought up a bunch of sardines so you couldn’t clean out the shelves again, you greedy bluejay you.

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  12. Steven Frisch Avatar
    Steven Frisch

    Posted by: Scott Obermuller | 25 July 2015 at 09:58 PM
    That may be one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard. Try killing 16 people with a knife in a movie theater, or 26 school children and teachers..sure in some extreme cases it could be done…but 88 people a day die from gun violence in America and one day you guys are going to have to recognize that guns actually have something to do with it.

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  13. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    “but 88 people a day die from gun violence in America…”
    And what does that have to do with “large” capacity magazines? Or “assault” weapons? Or current gun control laws?
    I could easily kill far more than 26 school children with out a gun – in fact, if I were trying to kill as many folks as I could at one go, a firearm would be among my last choice.
    Steven Frisch – please tell us exactly what laws you would pass that would have prevented Sandy Hook or the Aurora Colorado theater shooting.
    We’re trying to stop the carnage, Steve. You just want to focus on the weaponry. It’s called getting to the root of the problem. It involves looking at the facts, and not running off with your hair on fire about ‘guns’. We’re trying to determine why some humans decide to try to kill a lot of other random humans and stop it or at least slow it down. You can join the effort or go off on rants.

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  14. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    ScottO was there not a fellow who murdered a lot of people i China with a knife?

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  15. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: Steven Frisch | 25 July 2015 at 11:25 PM
    …..but 88 people a day die from gun violence in America and one day you guys are going to have to recognize that guns actually have something to do with it.

    Yes they do….just like “A $2 drop in gasoline is linked to some 9,000 additional road fatalities per year in the United States, (NPR recently reported.)”*. Fortunately though nothing will be done about it.

    Barack Obama: US Firearms Salesman of the Year (2009 – 2014 – projected winner for 2015 as well)

    Interesting that his former haunt (the general geographic region anyway. I doubt the mean streets of Hyde Park are contributing much to the tally) is responsible for about 10% of your daily kill rate. I would expect other progressive strongholds are similarly represented in the numbers.
    http://crime.chicagotribune.com/chicago/shootings
    * http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/01/americas-top-killing-machine/384440/

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  16. George Rebane Avatar

    I invite your kind attention to the 26jul15 update to this post.

    Like

  17. Steven Frisch Avatar
    Steven Frisch

    Posted by: George Rebane | 26 July 2015 at 08:30 AM
    Naturally you are going to update the post with what is essentially a denial that the large number of gun deaths in the United States has nothing to do with guns.
    It has everything to do with guns.
    Anywhere I live in the country I could go out and get a gun in about 1 day, or less. I live in California; I could cross over into Nevada in about 45 minutes and go to a private dealer or gun show and walk out with a gun today.
    If I live in Chicago, the favorite example here even though it is not the highest crime or even gun death per capita city in the US, I could go to Indiana in about 1 hour and get a gun.
    A big part of the problem is that anyone can get a gun of almost any make or model almost any time they want.
    I also agree that a big part of the problem is the rise of psychotropic drugs, elimination of in patient mental health facilities over the last 50 years, and a culture of violence that leads to the US not only being one of the highest gun related violence countries in the world, but also having incredibly high level of violence of all stripes….from assault to domestic violence.
    Of course it is true that you could kill 26 people with a bomb or a knife or a hammer Scott….but it is a lot harder to do, the chances of you being stopped in the process of the crime and the numbers dead being reduced are much higher, and frankly a lot of people simply don’t have the strength to do it. I can’t see Dylan Roff overpowering those 9 people at Mother Emanuel with a hammer Scott.
    And isn’t it just like Todd to say the functional equivalent to, “Hey some guy in China did it, so it is POSSIBLE for someone to commit mass murder with a toothbrush, thus laws against guns won’t stop mass murder.”
    I would think with all the self proclaimed smart people here the logical fallacy of this position would be clear.
    To deny the link between gun violence and guns is like denying the link between sunrise and light. It defies logic.
    I don’t expect to make any headway here.

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  18. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: Steven Frisch | 26 July 2015 at 08:53 AM
    I would think with all the self proclaimed smart people here the logical fallacy of this position would be clear.

    I have never proclaimed to be one of the “smart people” when posting here. I have in fact stipulated my status as “midwit” on a couple of occasions. This is why its so sad when when the Emerys and JoKe show up to argue.
    To deny the link between gun violence and guns is like denying the link between sunrise and light. It defies logic.
    I’m not sure that anybody here has recently attempted to sever the link. Of course guns and gun violence are inextricably linked.
    The question of violence in general and guns requires more nuance.
    I don’t expect to make any headway here.
    Nor in greater population either it would seem.

    Like

  19. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    This may help you Steven Frisch: I feel your pain. There, all better now.

    Like

  20. Steven Frisch Avatar
    Steven Frisch

    “Apropos to that, Associated Press reports that almost all the recent mass shootings were committed by people whose possession and acquisition of guns was already prohibited by existing laws (more here). The killers obtained their murder weapons either because government did not enforce a law, or the law’s enforcement went awry through one or more bureaucratic mistakes.”
    This might be a valid point IF gun proponents had not opposed these laws to begin with, did not resist these laws as they are being implemented, did not find every way to get around background checks through private dealer and gun show exemptions, did not glorify those who violate these laws for standing up for their view of the 2nd amendment, and did not starve government of the resources needed to enforce the laws.
    It is kind of hypocrisy to state that proper enforcement of existing laws would solve the problem when the gun industry opposed the laws to begin with and resist their enforcement.

    Like

  21. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    How do you explain the incredible number of murders on a weekly basis in Chicago DC and other places with very strict gun laws.

    Like

  22. Steven Frisch Avatar
    Steven Frisch

    Posted by: Todd Juvinall | 26 July 2015 at 09:32 AM
    I think I explained it above…the US ranks number 1 in the world in the number of guns owned per capita and even if the jurisdiction I live in has strict gun control I can go just about anywhere in a day and get a gun.
    The answer is simple; reduce the supply of guns.

    Like

  23. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: Steven Frisch | 26 July 2015 at 09:26 AM
    This might be a valid point IF gun proponents had not opposed these laws to begin with, did not resist these laws as they are being implemented, did not find every way to get around background checks through private dealer and gun show exemptions, did not glorify those who violate these laws for standing up for their view of the 2nd amendment, and did not starve government of the resources needed to enforce the laws.

    In our political system all sides get to influence legislation. As a proponent of representative democracy I thought you favored this.
    Who specifically has “glorified” those who violate the law and why hasn’t law enforcement prosecuted the violators? Standing up for “their view of the second amendment” is completely legitimate method to practice non-violent protest Steve. If these actions are found to be in violation of statute then it is for the courts to decide. Something else you endorse if I’m not mistaken.
    Starving the government for resources is just another euphemism for “we can’t allocate resources properly give us more money”. I’m sure the Mexican government would have been much happier had the last two administrations focused on legitimate gun related issues instead of political stunts like “Fast and Furious”.

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  24. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: Steven Frisch | 26 July 2015 at 09:38 AM
    The answer is simple; reduce the supply of guns.

    Horse meet barn door.

    Like

  25. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Ponder this libs, those countries that have laws restricting gun ownership have seen many changes in their governments, revolutions and system failures. America, where gun ownership is protected for individuals, has has a fairly calm government. Please explain that?

    Like

  26. Steven Frisch Avatar
    Steven Frisch

    Posted by: fish | 26 July 2015 at 09:46 AM
    “Who specifically has “glorified” those who violate the law and why hasn’t law enforcement prosecuted the violators?”
    Well, many here did for example when they glorified people aiming firearms at Federal agents at Bunkerville…..an illegal act.

    Like

  27. Steven Frisch Avatar
    Steven Frisch

    Posted by: Todd Juvinall | 26 July 2015 at 09:50 AM
    “,,,,those countries that have laws restricting gun ownership have seen many changes in their governments, revolutions and system failures.”
    I think you might want to walk that statement back Todd…looking at per capita gun ownership the stability of the government and the ownership of guns seems to be a little less connected than you think.
    There may be a few other external forces at play than just the ownership of guns.

    Like

  28. Steven Frisch Avatar
    Steven Frisch
  29. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: Steven Frisch | 26 July 2015 at 09:53 AM
    Well, many here did for example when they glorified people aiming firearms at Federal agents at Bunkerville…..an illegal act.

    If I recall correctly the glorification was of the resistance in general not specifically the drawing down on the feds.
    Again if it was illegal why hasn’t FEDGOV elected to prosecute? Tons of video evidence for a government prosecutor to pour over….I’m surprised that nothing has happened given this fact alone.

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  30. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Tell us Mr. Frisch what the gun ownership rules were in 1930’s Germany. Also Spain. How about any ARAB country today. How about 1917 Russia. Or the Baltic States in the 20’2. Maybe present day China. You see, the private ownership of guns has kept teo things from happening in America since 1787. Foriengn invaders (except Britain in 1812) are wary of attacking the homeland and the government is wary of making the citizens to mad. Like Jefferson said in the Declaration, PO me too much and we have the right to toss the government and put in another.

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  31. George Rebane Avatar

    fish 1005am – Mr fish, you might point out to Mr Frisch that pointing guns at redcoats was an illegal act. And then one can question such progressives, suddenly intent on laws being followed, why their own regime ignores so many laws and purposely avoids their enforcement and/or prosecution of violators.

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  32. Gary Smith Avatar

    Am interesting topic I have been thinking about. Besides the media factor I think another possible factor is the drugs that are prescribed by mental health professionals. Maybe in a small percentage of mental health patients there is a adverse side affect that pushes them over the edge? Maybe there is a pattern with study that could be shown between some of these drugs and certain types of mental illness? But with our new HEPA privacy laws of course what drugs were prescribed will never be know. My guess is the drug companies like it that way. Try find out what drugs or the mental health records for the kid that committed the Sandy Hook massacre. They will never be released.

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  33. Steven Frisch Avatar
    Steven Frisch

    Posted by: Todd Juvinall | 26 July 2015 at 10:37 AM
    Well it would appear that having oceans between the US and Europe and Asia would have something to do with the low incidents of foreign invasion as well.

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  34. George Rebane Avatar

    GaryS 1044am – Excellent point that you and RussS (807pm) bring up. To presume that prescribed psychotropic drugs taken by so many of these mentally deranged killers play no part in the carnage is definitely a bridge too far that is crossed only by those collectivist who first and foremost want to co-opt the conversation to gun control.

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  35. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: George Rebane | 26 July 2015 at 10:41 AM
    I don’t think in the most rhetorically overheated moment of that thread (Bundy/Bunkerville) that the notion of revolution was broached. We’re not there yet.
    The selective interpretation/enforcement of the law by the current administration however is a completely legitimately topic for Steve to address.

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  36. George Rebane Avatar

    fish 1052am – Agreed. My 1041am point was that ALL forms of situational pushback to government force/agencies is deemed illegal by governments, and especially so by governments that gratuitously rattle their sabers on their certain road to autocracy.

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  37. Jon Avatar
    Jon

    Steve 10:49…exactly. Reminds me of Todd’s theory last week when he said the Swiss have avoided invasions due to the preponderance of armed men thoughout the country.
    ..yeah..

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  38. Steven Frisch Avatar
    Steven Frisch

    Posted by: George Rebane | 26 July 2015 at 10:49 AM
    Posted by: Steven Frisch | 26 July 2015 at 08:53 AM
    Please note, I am agreeing with you guys that the link between psychotropic drugs and mass murder need to be explored.
    Why did we decentralize and privatize mental health care again?

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  39. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: Steven Frisch | 26 July 2015 at 11:36 AM
    Why did we decentralize and privatize mental health care again?

    There was legislation and legal cases in California that forced the closure of state run mental health facilities. This resulting both from an attempt to save money (legislation) and the prohibition of forced institutionalization except of the most dire of circumstances (Lanterman-Petris-Short (LPS) Act, which virtually abolished involuntary hospitalization except in extreme cases. (legislation stemming from various legal rulings)).

    “California has traditionally been on the cutting edge of American cultural developments, with Anaheim and Modesto experiencing changes before Atlanta and Moline. This was also true in the exodus of patients from state psychiatric hospitals. Beginning in the late 1950s, California became the national leader in aggressively moving patients from state hospitals to nursing homes and board-and-care homes, known in other states by names such as group homes, boarding homes, adult care homes, family care homes, assisted living facilities, community residential facilities, adult foster homes, transitional living facilities, and residential care facilities. Hospital wards closed as the patients left. By the time Ronald Reagan assumed the governorship in 1967, California had already deinstitutionalized more than half of its state hospital patients. That same year, California passed the landmark Lanterman-Petris-Short (LPS) Act, which virtually abolished involuntary hospitalization except in extreme cases. Thus, by the early 1970s California had moved most mentally ill patients out of its state hospitals and, by passing LPS, had made it very difficult to get them back into a hospital if they relapsed and needed additional care. California thus became a canary in the coal mine of deinstitutionalization.”

    http://www.salon.com/2013/09/29/ronald_reagans_shameful_legacy_violence_the_homeless_mental_illness/
    I imagine that going forward these will be reestablished both as legitimate treatment centers and as a place to use to house opponents of future progressive regimes.
    Is privatization germane to the link between the prescription of psychotropic drugs and the incidence of firearm related mass murder?

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  40. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Steven Frisch | 26 July 2015 at 10:49 AM
    Oceans did not stop the invasion by the hideous white men to this hemisphere as you Libs constantly tell us. If the Indian had guns what would have been the outcome?

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  41. Bonnie McGuire Avatar

    Are our public schools still collecting $420 per child (mostly boys) they put on Ritalin (or Adderall) because it was easier than discipline? A form of meth. Research shows most of the young men shooters have this background leading to the use and abuse of other drugs to control their misery. There have been many documentaries regarding this obscene practice in public schools. So glad our family members and family attorney wouldn’t let them force it on our wonderful, talented, hard working grandson when he was young. Locally we now have generations of desperate meth (and other drug) users roaming our towns, neighborhoods and woods stealing whatever to support their addiction. Those targeted need to be able to protect themselves from our government created insanity. Hate to tell you this, but we’ve witnessed it first hand.

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  42. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    “It is kind of hypocrisy to state that proper enforcement of existing laws would solve the problem when the gun industry opposed the laws to begin with and resist their enforcement.” -Frisch
    Imagine little Stevie Frisch, three days after Christmas, complaining that to have any fun he needs some new toys. Mom and Dad say you’re not playing with the ones you wanted last week. Who wins? No Steve, you’re being told that if you want more restrictive gun laws, start taking the last ones you demanded seriously. If the old ones don’t need enforcing, repeal them.
    I don’t think any particular law will solve the problem, mainly because there is no single “problem”. If we’re talking about mass killings, they generally happen in pretend “gun free zones”, so one fix might be to outlaw pretend gun free zones and, come to think about it, they weren’t happening with any frequency before the Frisch’s of the world decided they felt better about life if everyone saw a sign that declared it so.
    At the same time of the Virginia Tech massacre in their pretend gun free zone, the University of Utah was agonizing over their own quandary… freshmen with concealed handgun permits expected to be able to store their weapons in their rooms and, under Utah law, had the right to do so… but what happens if their assigned roomate didn’t want a gun in their room? I don’t know how they resolved that problem but one thing is clear: there hasn’t been any problems with the kiddies in Utah shooting up their math classes. It’s also clear the mass shooters are choosing killing venues that are supposed to be gun free, if everyone else obeyed the sign at the entrance.
    Why don’t we solve the problem once and for all by just making murder and manslaughter illegal?

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  43. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    “The answer is simple; reduce the supply of guns.”
    So, I’ll ask you again, Steven F., what laws, rules, etc would you specifically propose?
    You love to prop up your little straw men and post your cut and paste brain-dead arguments – how about following up with sane replies that answer my questions?
    And please tell us how reducing the supply of guns will reduce other mass violence that doesn’t involve guns?
    I’m afraid the govt answer to that is mass surveillance – both electronic and by visual tracking of physical movements. AI can ‘watch’ over the populace by sifting through our correspondence, postings and online traffic patterns. Coupled with data on our purchases and movements in vehicles, they will have no trouble proving that this sort of tracking and intervention (off to the facility) stops random carnage.
    And the volk will love it.
    There will, of course, be all sorts of other unfortunates that have to be vacuumed up ‘for their own good’ because they have funny ideas about following the Constitution, but I digress.

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  44. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    “Why don’t we solve the problem once and for all by just making murder and manslaughter illegal?”
    Oh, no – we can’t have that! The ‘disparate outcome’ rule puts a stop to that.

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  45. Steven Frisch Avatar
    Steven Frisch

    Posted by: fish | 26 July 2015 at 12:03 PM
    “Is privatization germane to the link between the prescription of psychotropic drugs and the incidence of firearm related mass murder?”
    I actually think that is a very good question Fish.
    The case many have made is that before the rise of psychotropic drugs in the 1960’s & 70’s patients were institutionalized, and thus more controlled. If that is the case they were less available to commit crimes. I would have to actually look at the data to see if that is true.
    And I’m with Bonnie sharing a personal experience; I know a kid who if the school system had had their way would have been on Ritalin for years and whose parents resisted and overcame the ‘inconvenience’ of having an active child who is now a top achiever.

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  46. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    I see from the national stats, there are only 88 guns per 100 people in the USA. I guess some of you guys are just going to have to share.
    Japan has only .6 guns per 100 people; other countries with that same level of ownership are Haiti, North Korea, Rwanda and Sierra Leone. Choose your paradise, but be aware… if one looks at combined murder and suicide rates as a “violent death rate”, Japan beats us handily. They also have sword control.

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  47. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Frisch has no answers just slogans. I like what Gregory said. If there is such a problem with the ten thousand or more gun laws and they are not working, repeal them. Then we can debate their replacement. But, like all of Frisch’s input here, there is no WIKI for him to cut and paste.

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  48. Steven Frisch Avatar
    Steven Frisch

    Posted by: Todd Juvinall | 26 July 2015 at 12:57 PM
    No, I just have answers that you don’t agree with and don’t want to hear. If I were king (and I ain’t) I would do the following:
    1) Destroy all guns confiscated and adjudicated rather than keeping them in the marketplace
    2) Ban all assault style weapons….period
    3) Ban all high capacity magazines
    4) Require a certificate of ownership be issued in advance for all gun sales
    4) Require a 30 day minimum check for ALL arms purchses (no check conducted no sale)
    5) Ban sales at gun shows and from private parties–sales would be required to go through a dealer
    6) Require registration of all guns…ALL
    7) Ban public carry of firearms (except concealed weapons in tightly controlled situations)
    8) Require that ‘collectable’ firearms be disabled
    9) Require showing certificate of ownership for the purchase of ammunition
    10) Ban ammunition designed to penetrate body armor.
    Don’t like it, move to Serbia 🙂

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  49. Steven Frisch Avatar
    Steven Frisch

    Posted by: Scott Obermuller | 26 July 2015 at 12:48 PM
    “And please tell us how reducing the supply of guns will reduce other mass violence that doesn’t involve guns?”
    I never said reducing guns would reduce the huge number of people killed by hammers every year.
    https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8
    But since the statistics show that the ration of gun deaths to knives, fists and hammers is about 5:1, 12:1 and 18:1 respectively it would force people to commit their murder a little more up close and personal.

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  50. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Steven Frisch | 26 July 2015 at 01:26 PM
    Another WIKI list and this was from the Communist Party of America.

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