Sandbox – 25jun15

June 2015
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Sandbox – 25jun15

25 June 2015

[The last sandbox seemed to have exhausted its old threads and its ability to launch new threads. One can always tell that a sandbox is overfilled when the mudball density goes up. I very much enjoyed the exchange on national healthcare issues and alternatives. Although, I still didn’t see any appreciation from the Left that their vaunted EU healthcare programs continue to eat up a greater fraction of GDP year after year while existing services are being rationed and/or cut – the litmus test for unsustainability. But then, that news never reaches the lamestream, and therefore it really is not happening.

Regarding the GDP figure, please see my comment below. gjr]

Posted in Comment Sandbox

196 responses to “Sandbox – 25jun15”

Todd Juvinall

26 June 2015

Healthcare on the whole may be a tad lower (not that I believe that) because the government subsidizes the poor but it has risen enormously for the dumb taxpayer who had his own before Ocare. Sorry Paul Emery, you can’t put lipstick on that pig and call it a gal.
The World Bank? Jeeze, you libs wrecked Seattle because you hate that entity. Now it is gospel? What a world, what a world.

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Todd Juvinall

26 June 2015

Great Britain is going BK from their NHS. People just don’t learn.

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Don Bessee

26 June 2015

Why are the all the people of color running for President in the Republican Party?

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George Rebane

26 June 2015

Administrivia = Pelline came back and started a whole new line of crap that got regular readers riled. The entire thread has been removed. I will now investigate how to remove him permanently; the man really is a worthless piece of …

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Steven Frisch

26 June 2015

I see how this works…..dig up dirt on George’s friends and you’re out of here 🙂
Let’s be clear here, if the point I once owed a big back tax bill 20 years ago but paid it back is relevant, then the point that George Boardman and Todd Juvinall are currently behind on their property taxes, that Todd defaulted on home mortgage[s] and has been involved in more than 20 legal actions over the last 25 years, that Greg crashed his plane, and that Don is an alleged serial harasser with a criminal record, are fair game.
You know George, despite your occasionally passive aggressive comments, you might actually be able to have a decent conversation with people who have a wide variety of views here, if it were not for people like Don, Fish, Greg and Todd constantly sniping and holding you back.

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Todd Juvinall

26 June 2015

Hey Steve Frisch, at least we are a bunch of interesting people. You are truly a boar.

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George Rebane

26 June 2015

What a concept, I have a preference for some people and not others. Kinda like SCOTUS unconstitutionally favoring some laws over others. But then, things do change.

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Todd Juvinall

26 June 2015

GeorgeR, within two minutes Pelline copy pasted your comment at 5:38 at his diss piece on you and Boardman. Now that is real journalism. LOL! The internet is changing the way we get our news.

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fish

26 June 2015

Posted by: Steven Frisch | 26 June 2015 at 05:30 PM
I’m not going to quibble with most of your analysis other than to say “House Rules”. And after yesterdays Supreme Court ruling I’m no longer sure that you even cheated on your taxes…..since it seems like everybody is just making it up as they go along.
Despite being on the wrong side of just about everything here you are still about the only guy in the “opposition” that I can stomach!
Arrivederci!

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Steven Frisch

26 June 2015

Posted by: George Rebane | 26 June 2015 at 05:38 PM
Yeah, well you have pretty bad taste George, even on my worst day I am way more interesting that Todd, Fish and Greg.
Note, I don’t include Mr. Boardman in that list.

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Don Bessee

26 June 2015

Frischy- Who cares what some dead site by people who lost a lawsuit and are connected with the disgruntled growers like the asa vp blather & rant? Sure has slowed me down. They lost the suit and everything at the elections last year with measure S being a total slaughter. I was reelected to the executive committee of the County assoc. in the first quarter of this year and in the second quarter was appointed the Exec Director of SAM (Smart Approaches to Marijuana) of Northern California. I expect ‘them’ to get more virulent as the primary approaches, to say nothing of the general next year! lol

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Todd Juvinall

26 June 2015

DonB, don’t engage Frisch. Many people who did what he did with his employees withheld taxes are in the hoosegow! I don’t give a hoot about his criticism. Like an old pal of mine used to say “what are they going to do? Send me to Vietnam?” What a hoot. Besides he is the biggest boar!

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Don Bessee

26 June 2015

SF@ 606 – Well that’s no surprise as a response from the j/s/j crew, you love yourself, you really love yourself! Has/does the sbc get donations that were connected to CEQA offsets?

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Jon

26 June 2015

I love this piece! The majority of the nation celebrates the Supreme decision on equal rights today. But oh no, no, not the very astute Repubs! Wouldn’t want to irritate that base..whatever that is.. These right wingers are advocates of going down with the ship apparently. Honorable people…LOL.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/27/us/gop-hopefuls-denounce-marriage-equality-ruling.html

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Joe Koyote

26 June 2015

“Steve Frisch, my blog is unmoderated. You are simply wrong.”
“Thanks for the compliment Barry. You are correct and my blog allows all to post.”
NOT TRUE, Todd either forgets or manufactures reality to suit his needs–but….. A couple of months ago I was blogging at Todd’s anonymously and without profanity and Todd said that he would block me if I didn’t use my name..I don’t recall the issue but he didn’t like my comments. I figured he let others post anonymously with way more vile crap than I was posting, so I kept posting anonymously, AND HE DID BLOCK ME and I haven’t been back since to see if the block has been lifted.

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Steven Frisch

26 June 2015

Posted by: Joe Koyote | 26 June 2015 at 07:50 PM
Wow, big surprise, Todd is a lying sack.

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Russ Steele

26 June 2015

A new take on the Lord’s Prayer, designed to encapsulate Pope Francis’s message:
Our Gaia, Who art in danger,
Sustainable be thy name,
Thy renewable energy resources come,
Thy Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change’s will be done
On Earth as it is in the upper atmosphere
Give us this day our daily organic ciabatta
Forgive us our carbon emissions
Though we can’t forgive those multinationals who emit against us
Lead us not into excessive plane travel
Deliver us from genetically modified crops
For thine is the moral high ground
The onshore wind farms and the subsidies
For as long as the taxes can be raised. Amen.

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Jon

26 June 2015

Joe and Steve,
Todd serves his function here. He is the Toadie in A Christmas Story.

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Don Bessee

26 June 2015

CCC

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Todd Juvinall

26 June 2015

JoeK I don;t block anyone. I will delete posts that use profanity or sexual content. I recall having to delete one from an anonymous poster about weird fantasies of me. So that was you eh?
Jonnie is now the resident liberal “useful idiot” here. What a hoot.
Steve Frisch is simply a tax cheat.

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Bill Tozer

26 June 2015

Well
https://www.facebook.com/Protectingourconstitution/photos/pb.123123377842466.-2207520000.1435384662./457512854403515/?type=3&theater

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Ben Emery

27 June 2015

George,
Well my brother must be out in the villages and he can be there for a two to three weeks at a time. Village = no power, no running water, no roads just paths
This goes to the discussion of GDP/ Externalities
How can we measure the value of an ecosystem when we don’t understand the full extent of its positive attributes?
To extract/ withdrawal natural resources that took anywhere from thousands to tens of millions of years to develop the environmental equilibrium account becomes negative.
When we cut down an old growth forest we can measure the matter that is extracted but not much else. The fact of the matter is that forest took hundreds if not thousands of years to grow. In that time those tree have sequestered who knows how many tons of carbon, created top soil, gave birds that spread seeds a home and brought bugs for them to feed on, ect……
There is so much to this subject but I will give you a link that will probably do a better job of explaining than myself.
http://www.ecosystemvaluation.org/1-02.htm

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George Rebane

27 June 2015

BenE 839am – Not to worry Ben, we’ll wait until your brother emerges, and then maybe he can weigh in himself on the matter of externalities.
BTW, just so we don’t lose focus, we all understand what externalities are and also the ideological basis for certain externalities, but the real objective here is to meld externalities into Gross National Income, and then show how GNI relates to GDP.
On a related matter of your ecological proclivities (which I am aware of and we don’t need to rehash here), your notion of nature taking “thousands to tens of millions of years to develop the environmental equilibrium” is not supported by any science I am aware of. The environment is not in equilibrium – never was, never will be, world without end, Amen.

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Joe Koyote

27 June 2015

Todd -.” I recall having to delete one from an anonymous poster about weird fantasies of me. So that was you eh?”
No Todd, are you making that up also? That wasn’t me and I was blocked not deleted. I tried posting for three days and none of my posts would show up. Perhaps that was a “blogspot” error?

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Greg

27 June 2015

“Let’s be clear here, if the point I once owed a big back tax bill 20 years ago but paid it back is relevant, then the point that George Boardman and Todd Juvinall are currently behind on their property taxes, that Todd defaulted on home mortgage[s] and has been involved in more than 20 legal actions over the last 25 years, that Greg crashed his plane, and that Don is an alleged serial harasser with a criminal record, are fair game.” -Frisch
Well, isn’t that special.
Let’s remember Frisch’s Big Tax Bill was because of his fraudulent practices of misappropriating payroll tax accounts in an illegal attempt to keep a failed business afloat, and let’s also remember his drunk driving conviction (misdemeanor or felony, Steve?). I’ve never even been handcuffed. How did that feel?
In contrast, because the rough landing after a failed takeoff caused some damage to the firewall my accident was investigated by the FAA and the NTSB. No fire truck rolled, no LEA appeared, John Hart didn’t take pics for The Union. No one was injured. I didn’t have to appear for an Inquisition, and the NTSB made no finding of pilot error. It was vapor lock. In nearly 1400 hours of logged flight time I have had zero actions from the FAA or NTSB. In fact, outside of a few minutes of phone calls and a couple of emails after my mishap, I’ve had no communications with them at all.
If this makes it easier for you to understand, Steve, this is kind of like being hit by a drunk driver and then having someone say you crashed your car.
Girly men Pelline, Frisch and “Jon” are apparently frightened by the prospect of bending a little aluminum, but when you take off in a single engine airplane and there’s an engine problem, you’re coming back down. It’s a risk you take. If you keep your wits, it should be survivable and I still have those wits.
Oh, and the insurance underwriter that paid off the declared value of that Piper Cherokee (a simple 4 place 160HP fixed prop, fixed gear plane typical for personal aircraft and for training) when they determined it was uneconomically repairable? They’re insuring my current faster, complex (meaning controllable pitch prop and retractable gear) high performance (meaning over 200 horsepower) and more valuable airplane… so they must be more blasé abut the reality of aircraft operations than the usual suspects here.
I’ve written about this before, on open public blogs. There’s no there, there.

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Todd Juvinall

27 June 2015

JoeK 9:58 AM. So you posted as anonymous and perved me and you were booted? I suggest you start your own blog JoeK and you can post whatever you want. However I don’t let pervert anon’s post on my blog.

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Jon

27 June 2015

Gregory clearly doth protest waaaaaaaaay too much.

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Steven Frisch

27 June 2015

Greg, take some Haldol and calm down. No one gives a shit about what you say about me anymore. You have jumped the shark.

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Greg

27 June 2015

“[the] notion of nature taking “thousands to tens of millions of years to develop the environmental equilibrium” is not supported by any science I am aware of. The environment is not in equilibrium – never was, never will be, world without end, Amen.”-GR
George, I think it’s well established that naive environmentalists have determined the natural state of the environment is what they think the weather was when they were 10 years old, and they want it back.

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Steven Frisch

27 June 2015

Posted by: George Rebane | 27 June 2015 at 09:18 AM
“BTW, just so we don’t lose focus, we all understand what externalities are and also the ideological basis for certain externalities, but the real objective here is to meld externalities into Gross National Income, and then show how GNI relates to GDP.”
Just to be clear George if it comes up in the future I am not advocating including externalities in either GNI or GDP either. I think the calculations are too complicated for the quick down and dirty number those two measures represent.
I do advocate gradually including life cycle analysis into the production and consumption of goods and services which would effect GNI and GDP, but only to the extent that they become a part of the set of data that those indicators measure.

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Greg

27 June 2015

“Yeah, well you have pretty bad taste George, even on my worst day I am way more interesting that Todd, Fish and Greg.” -Frisch
Steve, might I suggest Narcissists Anonymous? Pelline should have the contact info.

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Steven Frisch

27 June 2015

Posted by: Todd Juvinall | 27 June 2015 at 10:04 AM
So Todd is a big fat liar….and he admits it. But not completely yet, because he has not yet admitted that he has blocked people who have posted under their real names and used valid e-mail addresses, whom I also know.
Todd, why can’t I post on your bog?
Big fat liar….big fat liar….

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Steven Frisch

27 June 2015

Let’s get a list going of people Todd has blocked…me, Joe, Michael, anyone else? Come on down one and all…..speak up if Todd either blocked you or delated your comments just because he did not like them…
Big fat liar.

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Steven Frisch

27 June 2015

Yeah, I might meet you there with your great big stack of diplomas, and Todd with in imaginary ordinarily large penis.

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Steven Frisch

27 June 2015

Posted by: Steven Frisch | 27 June 2015 at 10:27 AM
Ooops…that was clearly directed at Greg 🙂

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George Boardman

27 June 2015

Steve Frisch is wrong when he claims I’m delinquent on my property taxes. My wife and her sister are behind on the taxes on a house they own that has been sold and will close escrow July 7.
Even if Frisch’s claim was true, how is that “fair game?” I have never discussed Frisch’s tax problems or any other personal information about him. I prefer to stick to the issues. Is it too much to expect the same consideration from others?

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Greg

27 June 2015

No, Steve, I met Todd a couple of times. He ain’t fat.
Now, given I know for a fact you have lied (for example, to your former employees, to the IRS and on this blog), and you are fat. so… Big fat certified liar, meet weight appropriate accused liar.

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Steven Frisch

27 June 2015

Posted by: George Boardman | 27 June 2015 at 10:29 AM
It was an example, and topical because the unsubstantiated allegation was recently made here; in reality I think ALL of this stuff is irrelevant and was merely pointing out that George determines the relevance prejudicially.
I am sorry if I ruffled your feathers. Perhaps the next time allegations are made against others you might apply the same standard you would prefer to have applied to yourself.

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Steven Frisch

27 June 2015

Greg I can’t help it I am really worried about you.
It is clear from your uncommon hours that you MAY suffer from insomnia. It is also clear from your passive aggressive behavior on this blog that you MAY suffer from either severe depression or schizophrenia. It is also clear from your repeated threats against me that you MAY suffer from some kind of paranoia. It is also clear that you MAY have quite a bit of time on your hands to blog–and appear not to have a job–thus you MAY have a lot of opportunity to….
My concern is that with your stated proclivity for the 2nd amendment, coupled with your access to an airplane, you MAY pose a threat to public safety, especially under the influence of the types of drugs people who regularly suffer from insomnia, depression, schizophrenia and delusional paranoia consume.
I just hope your aim is as flawed as you logic!

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Steven Frisch

27 June 2015

Hey George, perhaps you could use your editorial prerogative and delete all this type of nonsense when people post it, since we know you can do that and did just recently, then people might be able to focus on a substantive issue like your post from 9:18 am and mine from 10:22 am, which are the only actually interesting ones since Ben’s 8:39.

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Greg

27 June 2015

Steve, I have one diploma, from high school. The whole “Greg thinks he’s so smart” meme was started by Keachie when I suggested that his BA Sociology (or was it Anthro?) might be inadequate both for understanding the climate debate or to teach computer science in public schools.
Keach believed pasting reams from the Wiki was an adequate substitute for rational thought. You think wonky minutia are interesting. You are the lesser evil, but interesting? Less than you imagine.

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Greg

27 June 2015

“Greg I can’t help it I am really worried about you.”
Obsessive-Compulsiveness can be treated, and don’t worry, my small arsenal has never been used in anger.
Steve, you really seem to have severe problems when people stand up to your bullying.

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Todd Juvinall

27 June 2015

I have never “blocked” anyone from my blog Steve Frisch. I delete pervy comments, some of which you may have made a few years ago along with anonymous commenters. If you were respectful and not so full of hate and odd behavior on the blogs, then perhaps someone would like you.
Now Mr. Boardman is your target. Is there anyone that you don’t attack? Well, yes, Pelline. The facts are the facts, Steve Frisch comes here as a self proclaimed genius on every topic and when confronted, he goes personal. He does opposition research to come up with things he thinks will embarrass and then shut-up his opposition. If he had not bankrupted his own business, taken the employees $250,000 in payroll taxed and was not liened by the local, state and federal governments for non payment of a lot of ,omey, I would probably not care less. But when someone is a total hypocrite like Steve Frisch, he must be exposed as such.
One last question for Steve Frisch. Did you cut a deal with the government on your taxes? You say you paid them off so was it for the full amount or some negotiated discounted amout? My guess it was a discount since it appears the liens were only released around 2009. Started all of your shenanigans about taxes in what? 1993?

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Todd Juvinall

27 June 2015

oops, and the “liar, liar” mantra Steve Frisch? Jeeze, my 11 year old niece is better than that. What a hoot!

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George Rebane

27 June 2015

StevenF 1022am & 1041am – OK, your point is well made, and I think we do agree on the difficulty of accounting externalities due to their causality and size being subjective attributes often swayed by ideology. But let me see if I can discover a reasonable connection, if only conceptually, that relates externalities to GNI to GDP. We both are aware how negative externalities are argued and included in public policy analyses by the Left.
Re going through the comment streams on various posts and extracting the ‘mudball threads’, that is hard work through TypePad’s UI. I keep hoping that all RR commenters will one day see the futility of such exchanges. I firmly believe that other readers are not interested and ‘fast forward’ through such exchanges, even at the risk of losing an interstitial comment that is topical.
While I appreciate the growth and size of RR, it is getting harder to deal with the mudballs, and I find myself going through ‘What if I just …?’ thoughts more frequently these days. Given your oft stated sentiments about RR, I’m not sure you want to help, but in the off chance that you do, I’ll try to pitch in from my side. Discounting the message because of the messenger’s long past sins – real or fabricated – is really sophomoric and shouldn’t play well with RR readers. However, I do think that pointing out a commenter’s current status or activities that bear on the topic is fair game in order to argue conflict of interest, prejudice, or some other relationship may impact on the argument – e.g. Reagan’s famous remark on age during a debate, or even my belonging to the Sportsmen’s Club when I foment about the Second Amendment.

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Todd Juvinall

27 June 2015

Do the liberals in charge of our country understand why 93 million Americans are not working? What are the reasons they are not working? Are they all taking a check from the government to survive? How does that money figure into the GNP? If they were working and are now not working, where did that job go? Is it gone because it became to expensive to produce a product? Is that job in China, Bangladesh, India? Why is it there. As long as the left refuse to see the results of all their good intentions, laws and regulations,(Federal Registers) and not address the real world results of same, America will be a third world country pretty fast. With illegal immigration and the SCOTUS rulings this week, we are on our way!

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Greg

27 June 2015

Let’s revisit Stephen Frisch’s entry into this thread:
“Must be nice to be able to just make shit up and pretend it is real based on your own view of the world.”
Frisch, you reap what you sew. I’d wager most of the posts you have made on this thread contain “shit you made up and pretended it is real based on your own view of the world”, including the disturbing attempt at painting me as a danger to society at 10:37AM.
Frisch, you must be the Apple of your Board’s eye.

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George Boardman

27 June 2015

Re GeorgeR at 11:08 AM:
Think of this as basic training in case you decide to pursue a second career as head master of a school for juvenile delinquents.

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Steven Frisch

27 June 2015

Posted by: Greg | 27 June 2015 at 11:26 AM
That would be “sow” Greg.

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Steven Frisch

27 June 2015

Posted by: George ” | 27 June 2015 at 11:08 AM
“Re going through the comment streams on various posts and extracting the ‘mudball threads’, that is hard work through TypePad’s UI. I keep hoping that all RR commenters will one day see the futility of such exchanges. I firmly believe that other readers are not interested and ‘fast forward’ through such exchanges, even at the risk of losing an interstitial comment that is topical.”
“While I appreciate the growth and size of RR, it is getting harder to deal with the mudballs, and I find myself going through ‘What if I just …?’ thoughts more frequently these days. ”
George, I actually feel for you there. But if we looked at this purely from your desires for your blog I would be willing to bet you are primarily interested in two things: sharing with people the articles and items of interest you find interesting in contemporary society, and, having your customers discuss those items so that they can understand them more fully and you can gain perspective from their knowledge.
IF those are your goals, as the visits to your blog grow you are going to increasingly have trouble with separating the wheat from the chaff.
One way to do that would be, as I have suggested several times, the establishment of ground rules. This is after all your blog, as you pointed out above, and you own it, so to meet your goals you can adapt to new situations. The new situation is potentially hundreds of entries a day.
This blog is no where near my primary on line presence. My FB page is my primary presence and it reaches hundreds of people a day and receives at least dozens of comments a day. I have rules. The rule are 1) stick relatively close to the original topic posted, 2) make your case cogently, 3) counter another persons perspective, but it should be related to the topic, the information presented, or present new information, 4) you are not allowed to personally attack other posters or bring into the conversation extraneous or personal information that is unrelated to the original post, 5) no spam or porn.
IN 5 years on FB I have had to bounce a grand total of three people, ironically two of them up until recently of the liberal persuasion (and I simply blocked Todd). By the way my rules are almost unstated, only once or twice have I had to actually state them to clarify. Instead I use the instant message function to ask people to either remove their comment or go back and edit to remove nonsense. That almost never happens.
The truth is probably 80% of what gets posted on your blog is chaff (extraneous unrelated nonsense) and I don’t believe that is what you originally envisioned. I also must point out that the percentage of chaff is directly proportional to the rules you set. If you allow chaff people who like to post chaff will be attracted to your blog. But you control the outcome. If your goals are similar to what I stated above, you control the outcome and you could use a simple set of rules to meet your personal goals for the blog.
I have offered ‘truce’ several times here….but I will be damned if I am going to unilaterally disarm…but you call a ‘truce’ and enforce it…and we could talk about science, economics, technology, the singularity, wild fire, whatever comes up that interests you.

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