Rebane's Ruminations
June 2015
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[As most RR readers have seen, the sandbox 'all topics welcome' forums (fora?) in these pages have been more than well received – their comment streams quickly fill with multiple topic threads discussed among multiple participants.  Recently these sandboxes have begun 'filling' more rapidly – e.g. the 1jun15 sandbox garnered over 200 comments in three days.  This has given rise to a growing concern of mine about the readability of very long comment streams containing several live threads.  Fortunately, most commenters have started using name/time tag referents to point readers to which of the preceding comments their current comment addresses.  (However, some still believe that their particular thread is being so closely followed by everyone that no such provenance pointers are needed – hubris?)

So I wonder if perhaps readability would be enhanced were RR to implement categorical sandboxes – national policy, local issues, foreign policy, climate change, science, education, … ??  While that approach MAY focus discussions and make them more readable, it would also detract from the apparently pleasant melee or potpourri of thoughts that readers now experience as they revisit the comment stream to have their interest piqued by some new comment/er.  Easiest would be not to 'fix' what seems to work, and to just open new sandboxes whenever the comment streams grow beyond a hundred or so.  Anyway, I invite a discussion and your thoughts on the matter.  gjr]

Posted in

260 responses to “Sandbox – 4jun15”

  1. fish Avatar
    fish

    Geeez……nothing but dead air from Mr. Emery. Okay I’ll lob a softball……The Sacramento Bee…..surely they’d never be caught dead employing a reporter who made up people to populate a significant percentage of her stories?
    Nahh…legitimate news outlets have editorial controls and oversight……legitimate news outlets like the L.A. Times…..?
    Of course even legitimate and unbiased purveyors of the news are sometimes subject to …..really, really, really Bad timing!
    Eric Slater, Los Angeles Times (2005)

    The Los Angeles Times fired veteran reporter Eric Slater in April 2005 after reporter Melissa Daugherty from Chico’s daily newspaper, the Enterprise-Record, revealed that Slater’s article on hazing at Chico State University was rife with inaccuracies and relied heavily on unnamed sources. Questions subsequently arose about whether Slater fabricated the piece or actually visited Chico at all. Slater also quoted the university president by lifting a quote from the Enterprise-Record without attribution. University staff received an apology from the Times, which the president felt was inadequate.
    Slater’s mistakes humiliated the Times because the error-laden story ran two days after former media critic David Shaw wrote in his column that Internet bloggers do not deserve protection under journalistic “shield laws” because their work has no editorial oversight.

    Like

  2. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    Fish, when a liberal is confronted with fact which are contrary to their dogma they end up like Robby the Robot on Forbidden Planet. They breakdown and go silent.

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  3. fish Avatar
    fish

    Stupid Italics
    Hey Greg….how do you kill the html after the fact?

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  4. Don Bessee Avatar
    Don Bessee

    Fish, was David Shaw writing about he who’s name we shall not speak?

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  5. fish Avatar
    fish

    …..here’s a pretty good summary of the incident from Slate, a credible news source
    Yeah…..credible enough to be taken in and then defend getting spoofed by somebody submitting a story on “Monkeyfishing”.
    Sounds like they almost ready for the big time Paul!

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  6. George Rebane Avatar

    fish 430pm – YOU don’t kill italics, or anything else, once you push the ‘Post’ button. C’est moi who has to go and clean up your mess. Of course, TypePad could help by not rippling the italics you fail to close through the rest of the comment stream. However, you can add a ‘clean up comment’ which starts with the HTML ‘end italics’ tag and fools TypePad.

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  7. Walt Avatar

    ( GASSSSP!!!!) From The N.Y. Times.
    I don’t think they mentioned Ca. ECO LIBS having a part in the water problem.
    But a good read non the less.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/07/business/energy-environment/california-farmers-dig-deeper-for-water-sipping-their-neighbors-dry.html

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  8. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: George Rebane | 05 June 2015 at 05:02 PM
    I posted the tag…. it didn’t do anything.

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  9. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    RE Walt 5:33
    I’m glad you agree with the essence of the nytimes story you linked to despite what you point out is a flaw in their analysis. Well written article Walt. Glad you read it.
    “But now there’s a problem for all the farmers, no matter what rights they have to surface water: Heavy drilling by farmers near Sack Dam is causing the land to cave in so much that the water is having trouble taking its normal path. Further subsidence will make it hard for water to get through Sack Dam to Mr. Michael’s farm and those of his neighbors.
    “Water traditionally flowed with gravity,” as Mr. Michael put it. “It isn’t going to run uphill.”…………………

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  10. Don Bessee Avatar
    Don Bessee

    PE- If were not for the suicidal policies of the eco nuts we might have developed a rational water storage program in the last 30 years for CA. Its quite funny that the same folks who used to bleat about population controls are happy to have 30 or 40 million illegal resource gobblers who they want to vote with them citizen or not.

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  11. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Well boys and Miss Bonnie and Miss Patrica, both fine young lassies: Let’s open the hood and take a look, shall we.
    Big picture time. ABC is owned by Disney. NBC is owned by Comcast. So, if you really want to see who is behind all this biased news and designed non-news, blame that squeaky Micky Mouse and Larry the Cable Guy. They pull the strings.

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  12. Jon Avatar
    Jon

    Hay Don, how much water would be in that reservoir right now that they could have built 30 years ago?
    30 or 40 million illegals? Wow. That’s a new one Don. Just throw out any number and hope it sticks with Breitbart.
    Paul, now I know why folks like you stay away from here for weeks and months!….

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  13. Don Bessee Avatar
    Don Bessee

    Ah the what ever shows up. Too many crickets in liberal lament land? Thanks for the shallow and lame engagement as we have come to expect. The illegal immigration numbers are out there nameless one. When was the last time we built a dam in CA buttercup? Hell if they just did state wide regular major sediment removal things would be better. But alas the narcissistic folks like you say ‘we can play god and pick which poorly performing little critter must live, screw Darwin’. How’s that working out for you guys?

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  14. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    from Paul – “he accused her of practicing racism as a federal employee.”
    She admitted that she did, in fact, as a federal employee, deliberately and actively mistreat some one because they were euro descent. None of this ‘accused’ BS, Paul. She admitted it. You don’t get to break the law and then say “oopsie”. She was fired by the Obama admin. It doesn’t matter if the crime was 20 years ago or yesterday. It was criminal. Is that all you have on Bart? You keep bringing it up. Why don’t you go to Breitbart right now and come back and tell us all of the things that are wrong.

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  15. Walt Avatar

    No Auburn dam, because the white water rafters would have to find something else to do.
    No dam on the Yuba because brush covered slopes are pretty.
    Good thing smarter heads prevailed in S.F. or Hetch hechy would be drained and become a new money pit instead of the water and power resource it is today. BTW,, just where would S.F. replace over 1/3rd of it lost water supply from? Answer that Manny, Moe and Jack.

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  16. Don Bessee Avatar
    Don Bessee

    Scott your are spot on, the fact is they are just pissed we have learned the game and there are real investigative journalists with us in spite of their best efforts! Too much truth for their narratives to flourish anymore.

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  17. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    Jonnie troll is here again? Jeeze, he supplies nothing for discussion and simply does the “troll boogey”. I wonder why he never posts on the FUE’s blog?

    Like

  18. Don Bessee Avatar
    Don Bessee

    oooopsie, that’s what I get for going from texting to typing! Please scratch your, insert you. ;-). Todd- because no one would see it.

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  19. Steven Frisch Avatar
    Steven Frisch

    Well, we have built 21,000,000 af of storage since 1959, 8.600,000 af of that has been since 1969, and we have built 1,600,000 af since 2000. The issue my friend is only partly that some people don’t want to built; it is mostly that all the good spots are taken already by the1.400 dams we have already built and new sites are too expensive for water users to pay for their construction and operation. Oh, and yeah, we built two dams in Los Angeles County just in the last 10 years totaling another 40,000 af in storage.
    http://www.water.ca.gov/damsafety/damlisting/index.cfm

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  20. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    It sprinkled a bit at my house a few minutes ago. If we had some storage we might have saved it. LOL!
    Looks like my idea of bringing Columbia River water to Shasta is starting to get some supporters.

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  21. Walt Avatar

    Well Stevey shows up. 10 years and only 40,000 AF to show for it. That’s just a drop
    in the proverbial bucket. Englebright holds twice that. That’s not much to crow about Stevey….
    And don’t forget the mandatory “emergency flood” restrictions all the dams have. No more than 2/3s capacity. So 1/3rd is already lost right out of the box.
    In the mean time, needed water today gets sent to the sea.. Just how much is that total loss Steve? When crops could use that water. Naaa, six bait fish are more important. ( Not six species,, six in total)

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  22. Walt Avatar

    BTW Stevey,, Since when have LIBS cared about the cost of anything? They are REAL good at pissing away money. The “new” Bay bridge is a good example. Huge cost over runs, sub standard construction, corruption, and already falling apart.

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  23. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Hey Walt, remember those old bumper stickers that read Dam it, Darm It! about 25 years ago all over Auburn? Not a new proposal by any means, but the results remain the same.

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  24. Walt Avatar

    YUP!
    My neighbor was one of the survey engineers on the project.
    He was sure bummed when the plug was pulled.
    Now on to more pressing matters,,
    Things are getting ugly El Southa’
    http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2015/06/05/breaking-us-cbp-chopper-down-at-texas-border-fired-on-from-mexico/
    Back in the good ol’ days, the Mexicans kept their gun fire confined to East and West
    Back then there were repercussions if bullets crossed the boarder. Nope,, not today.

    Like

  25. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Oh Walt, worse than fling bullets is emotions. Yep, you better not hurt anyone’s feelings cause you will end up on the short end of the stick. Accidents are not allowed to happen.
    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/why-college-professors-afraid-teach-094500030.html

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  26. Jon Avatar
    Jon

    Walt,
    What are your proposed repercussions? Are you going to declare War against Mexico? I believe you up to 15 separate declared wars by now. Have you consulted Paul Ryan on the cost of your various international endeavors and police actions?
    And just when were the good old days on the Mexican border? I assume prior to when the Republican President at the time signed the Immigration Reform and Control Act in 1986, and Republican Bush the Father signed additional orders to solidify amnesty a few years later?

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  27. Jon Avatar
    Jon

    Can someone actually cite any reference, indirectly or directly, to the 30 to 40 million illegal immigrant number that Don threw out?
    Where is that coming from? Thanks.

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  28. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Order in the house I say, order. Sure, there is always the road nazi putting up 12 MPH signs no matter how far out you live. And, sure, there is always a handful of parents giving shout outs to their kids when they receive the parchment. But this power mad authoritarian dude reminds me of a Rolly-Polly bragging on his blog that he will have a chat with a business shaming them into removing a Elk Jerky sign in the storefront window. Rollie Pullie make me get down and ROFLOA. Yes, I have sunk to that level.
    http://wreg.com/2015/06/02/warrants-issued-for-people-who-cheered-at-senatobia-graduation/

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  29. Don Bessee Avatar
    Don Bessee

    YO! Frisch! I said 30 years. While I am some stupid white male my math says my stated window at the very extreme was closed at 1985 sir. Be so kind as to relate the post 85′ storage to perhaps a major cities daily use. Even Nevada Counties would be relevant. 🙂

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  30. Walt Avatar

    Damn “jon”,, just who’s side are you on? You get a cut of that Mexican dirt weed?
    Maybe “O” should pull all the CBP off the boarder. It would be safer and no shots will be fired. No more helicopters to harass to peaceful drug dealers. It’s the only capitalism they know… Right? You can always use the excuse it’s MMJ and they have people that need their medicine. ( Coke is a pharmaceutical too… Depending on who you ask)
    Yup,, back in the good ol’ days we shot back, and it got the point across.
    Since it’s catch and release down on the boarder, turn over issue to Fish and game. they have even less man power. Yup, the boarder patrol agents will have a limit to the number or Reo Grande “fish” they can snag crawling out the water. Say 4? ( and get fired for throwing them back.)
    The drugers should be shot on sight if I had my way. If gunfire come from Mexico, return the favor and plenty of it.
    And if the Mexican Gov. won’t do anything about it, send in our own “cleaning crew”.
    But of course, LIBS like you will snivel and whine.
    I sure wish I had you for a neighbor, so I could give you a first hand lesson.
    I would throw my refuse, and even the collected dog crap into YOUR yard, and make it your problem. And don’t you dare bitch about it. I like to target shoot. I guess you wouldn’t mind a few stray bullets coming your way.
    that’s your attitude about the Southern boarder,, deal with it. ( It’s always OK when it doesn’t affect you directly)

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  31. Steven Frisch Avatar
    Steven Frisch

    Posted by: Walt | 05 June 2015 at 08:15 PM
    1,600,000 af in the last 10 years. You are missing the point, even the mediocre spots for new big dams are gone. MWD does’t even think Sites that we just voted $3 billion for does not pencil. You guys will of course never learn that your don’t know WTF you are talking about.

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  32. Don Bessee Avatar
    Don Bessee

    Hmmmm, duck the silt issue, check. Failed to answer the question, check. Ignored the movements to demolish the existing storage, check. How many houses sir? For how long sir? What is their level now and what does that do for our inner city kids? WATER TO THE PEOPLE! Fair prices for food.

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  33. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    For “jonnie”. You buddy Jorge Ramos of Telemundo, when interviewing Ann Coulter used 40 million. Dropped to 30 million illegals.
    GeorgeR, hey you and I have been talking about that Columbia River water for a long time!
    The Auburn dam should be built. Hell the rich libs are building high rise apartments on the San Andreas fault so what’s the problem?

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  34. Walt Avatar

    You can’t even keep your own story straight. THIS is what you said above.
    “we built two dams in Los Angeles County just in the last 10 years totaling another 40,000 af in storage.” Now you crap out “1,600,000 af in the last 10 years” ??
    The same line of BS that is said about AGW. make it up as you go along.
    There are plenty of good spots to build dams. just none the ECO idiots like. They (you) would rather see them all come down. What’s more important? Water to supply food and drink?
    or something to look at?
    Again LIBS have NEVER been fiscally aware of anything. Since when do LIBS care about the cost of anything? Nice try.(actually a piss poor try)

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  35. Walt Avatar

    Try again tomorrow Stevey after the bottle of Mad Dog wears off.

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  36. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Frish
    This is by and large a very small but remarkably ignorant group that participates in this blog. The water situation in California is very real and requires careful understanding of history and science. We may have dug us a hole we can’t easily get out of. If indeed California is returning to being an arid region, which historically it has been. it will take more than shoulda woulda thinking to get us out of it. There is nothing more basic than water and air to our existence.

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  37. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    So Paul, with your careful understanding of history and science sans any particular formal schooling in either, what do we do?
    Frisch (the six figure CEO of the wretchedly misnamed Sierra Business Council) is on the record for putting meters on all residential wells and instituting fees paid to the state for every gallon pumped from what is ostensibly private property. What do you think? In my case, with no irrigation of landscaping, most of the water pumped gets returned to the ground… so should I have a meter on my septic return to charge the state for every gallon that gets put back? Enquiring minds want to know.
    If we are at the start of a 1000 year dry spell, we should resign ourselves to water shortages and a shrinking population as Gaia is not required to move the rain to where people want to live. Perhaps we should encourage our illegal immigrants to move to Oregon where there is currently plenty of water, while warning them to say “I’m not a Californian” to increase their acceptance among the Oregonians.
    Let’s also note that NOAA sponsored research verifies the drought is not a result of CO2 based AGW; the current weather patterns do not conform to those predicted by the general circulation models blessed by the IPCC. But, if we can agree AGW is not an issue, using coal to generate power for desalination plants could help until physics and engineering is cracks the fusion nut, as we’ll never find the real estate to install enough Chinese photovoltaics to produce enough power for desalinised water for everyone to drink.

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  38. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: Paul Emery | 05 June 2015 at 11:53 PM
    Pompous much?

    Like

  39. Steven Frisch Avatar
    Steven Frisch

    Jesus you guys are such frigging idiots?
    What “silt issue” that you previous reference did I ‘duck’ Don? Was it after 7pm? Had you been drinking Don?
    Do math (or read) much Walt? 1,600,000 af since 2000 and 40,000 af in LA in the last 10 years were two separate statements. Does it take a rocket scientist to figure ut the 40,000 af is part of the 1.6 million? By the way, a ‘boarder’ is someone who lives in your house.
    Auburn dam Todd? HTF are you going to fill it Todd? Even in normal years we can’t keep reservoirs on the American River full. And how are you going to pay for it?
    And finally, Greg, what can I say? All I can say is I am sorry you are such a warped, wretched, angry little man….sounds like you should take some more Haldol, oh, and O hear you should not fly…don’t want another ‘accident.’
    Paul is correct, small, ignorant, opinionated, and irrelevant.

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  40. Steven Frisch Avatar
    Steven Frisch

    And NO Jon, no one can cite any trusted reference to the 30 to 40 million illegal immigrant number that Don threw out.
    It is like a libertarian version of telephone on acid.
    Don mouths, Todd repeats, Walt punctuates with jabberwocky, Greg polishes their knob, and George laughs.

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  41. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    I see the robot Steve Frisch is here again copy/pasting. Jeeze do you have a brain of your own? All you do is mouth idiocies from the DailyKos and the Nation. Try harder, you are such a embarrassment to your ilk.
    Paul Emery, I know you only say these thing to rile up those people better than you so I laugh it off. I mean, tell us all your level of education. If your knowledge of things is so poor, how can you be trusted with the news?
    I do understand DonB’s issue on silt. Englebright is a good example. Built to keep the silt from hitting the valley, it has never been dredged as far as I know. Its capacity is greatly diminished. I am sure there are more of these kinds of dams.
    I do think Frisch has got one thing right. There was a new reservoir built in SoCal a number of years ago. However, the population has doubled in our state and we stopped building Oroville and Shasta type dams a long time ago. It is time to build the Auburn Dam and many more.

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  42. fish Avatar
    fish

    And how are you going to pay for it?
    Interesting this question isn’t asked more often when “Big Programs/Big Projects” are put into play.

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  43. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    Jorge Ramos, a famous Mexican immigrant running Telemundo used the 40 million and then 30 million in his quest for amnesty. All said during his interview with Ann Coulter. She trounced his sorry ass just like Frisch always get trounced here. Liberals are so stupid.

    Like

  44. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: Paul Emery | 05 June 2015 at 11:53 PM
    So….any progress on that “Approved Legitimate News Source” list Paul?

    Like

  45. Steven Frisch Avatar
    Steven Frisch

    I see the fool Todd is at it again, I would challenge him to find a place where I have quoted either Daily Kos or The Nation, but if I did I would corroborate the information, something there seems to be a serial void of on this blog.
    The reason there is no new Oroville or Shasta Dam is that there are no places for Dams like those anymore, the places are all taken, as I pointed out above but no one wants to address. The places that are left are all so expensive that even southern California water agencies and the agricultural community don’t want to finance them.
    The Auburn Dam today would cost at least $12 billion to build in current dollars, and the water supply to fill it is seriously in question. There would be at most about 1million af of flow annually and Folsom remains partly empty even in normal years and can take most of that capacity, meaning it would be unlikely to actually add any new net supply of water. If there was excess water it could flow through Folsom and into the Delta and be pumped into the aqueduct at a much lower cost (and would solve the Delta salinity problem, so if the water WAS there why do we still have a Delta salinity problem?)
    Moving water from the proposed Auburn Dam to link into the California aqueduct system would also be very costly, and is not figured into that $12 billion cost.
    As I said, libertarian telephone on acid!

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  46. Steven Frisch Avatar
    Steven Frisch

    Just to be clear, I am not anti-Dam, I am anti-stupid Dam; I would support on-stream storage in many places that are cost effective.
    I did not say there is not an opportunity from removing silt, I would support that as well, and hope we use some of that storage money we just voter for in Prop 1 to do that, I noted that Don did not reference it before he incoherently dinged me for not addressing it, leading me to to think he had been hitting the bottle before he posted.

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  47. Steven Frisch Avatar
    Steven Frisch

    Wow, Ramos said it in an interview with Coulter! Now I believe it.
    Libertarian telephone on acid.

    Like

  48. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    I see the ignorant fool Steve Frisch is at it again. He is not anti dam he says but makes all the leftwing arguments against them. Jeeze what a moron he is.
    When talking about immigration and its proponents why is Jorge Ramos to not be believed? He says his people are 40 million, so I guess Frisch must be a racist for disagreeing with Ramos. Of course there is not one minority in his “business”. What a hoot.
    When you read Frisch’s idiot responses you can see why no one believes anything a liberal says. Though he argues his positions vehemently, as soon as it is apparent he is wrong or bsted, he says, “well I never said I was against (fill in the blank)”/ Goodness, and his ilk is why California is in the crapper.
    Lastly, Steve Frisch is the $113,000 a year (plus benefits I am sure) paid CEO of a non=profit eco nut organization. That alone should disqualify him from any serious arguments since he is a paid stooge for the left.

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  49. Barry Pruett Avatar
    Barry Pruett

    Steve, the number of illegal immigrants in the USA is very difficult to ascertain. The Census Bureau tags the number between 12 and 20 million but that only includes folks that actually want to be counted. To be sure such estimates by the Census Bureau are likely low. It is commonly accepted that the range between 12 million and 40 million. Of course proponents of illegal immigration would like to cite the Census Bureau’s estimates despite the fact that they are likely flawed.

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