Sandbox – 1jun15

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Sandbox – 1jun15

01 June 2015

[New month, new sandbox. The 30may15 sandbox seems to have turned into a kitty litter box with all the congealed poop balls flying back and forth. Perhaps the participants there will want to retain that venue for continuing those enthusiastic labors and use this new one for more edifying discourse. I for one am interested in what readers think about the Patriot Act's renewal and the trade-offs between our liberties and security. gjr]

Posted in Comment Sandbox

243 responses to “Sandbox – 1jun15”

George Rebane

03 June 2015

GeorgeB 933am – Good point to include in this discussion. However, these stats taken at face value are still skewed by the homogeneity of educated European cultures vs the heterogeneous polyglot of America’s cultures that include millions who either willfully abuse themselves and/or are not smart enough to avail themselves to the care that is available. I have seen studies showing that if America’s population is segmented to match the economic and educational metrics of the celebrated EU countries, then America beats those healthcare numbers on all fronts. In short, we have to be careful who we let into such population samples so we can compare apples to apples 😉

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Gregory

03 June 2015

Walt, that’s the MC-12 Liberty from Beale, it’s a training flight. It ain’t a small plane, it’s a small airliner that, if outfitted like a civilian B300, would seat 19. Outfitted like a Liberty it seats 4 and a whole lot of equipment that airmen need practice using before being sent to a hot zone.
Paul, journalists at all those respected organizations screwed up. His biographer, La Nacion, the Vatican biography and Wikipedia got it right. I gave you the links: the math, his age and those phantom degrees do not mesh, it’s just a screwup in translation in the rush after his promotion by people like you who don’t always think before running with a factoid.

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Walt

03 June 2015

Here we go again with foreign workers taking American jobs.
How would you like to train the one taking your job?
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/06/03/nyt-laid-off-disney-employes-made-to-train-foreign-replacements/

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Gregory

03 June 2015

For those who don’t care to follow breitbart links, the NY Times article it, um, substantially duplicates is here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/04/us/last-task-after-layoff-at-disney-train-foreign-replacements.html?ref=topics&_r=1
George, I haven’t seen you singing the praises of H1B’s for awhile, any second thoughts?

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Todd Juvinall

03 June 2015

Anyone know what the loss to the economy in America is by the illegal drug culture. It seems to me I saw it was in the hundreds of billions.

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Scott Obermuller

03 June 2015

“George, I haven’t seen you singing the praises of H1B’s for awhile, any second thoughts?”
How would Gregory like it if a federal agent stepped in front of him while he was shopping and told him he wouldn’t be allowed to buy the items in his cart and he would have to put them back and buy inferior products that were more expensive?
We beg for millions of illiterate poor folks to come here and sponge off of the tax payers. Why is it a problem to allow educated folks to come here and work? You are free market or not. We operate in a world economy now. Get with it or get out. Yes, you can erect artificial barriors to trade. It was done in the 30’s. Worked a charm. One God-awful war later, we emerged on top and had a great time for a bit. It’s over. Or we can repeat the last mistake and have at it again. But it won’t be the same this time. Our economy has run up a monstrous tab and expects to pay it off with ever-increasing wages and prices and taxes. It’s killing the poor and middle class. We need to lower prices of housing and lower the tax load. We need to want lower prices, not ever increasing wages.

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Jon

03 June 2015

Hay, wonders never cease. I agree with Walt (and perhaps Greg) on the Disney situation. A disgusting loophole used by Disney which goes against the H1B intent. But here comes Mr. Compassion-Scotty- leave it to him to cast aside those experienced American employees in favor of the hard line “free trade” argument- tough luck Charlie, you’re on your own. Actually this kind of immoral stuff at Disney is a huge part of what’s killing the middle class in this country, and shutting out any path for the poor. What a compassionate and patriotic guy you are, Scott. Buy Cheap, Cheap, Cheap!

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Todd Juvinall

03 June 2015

Started reading “Adios America” by Ann Coulter. She is truly got a feel for the right thing to do. Immigration expose’. So far so good. She asks why do we want to legalize thirty million new democrat voters?

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George Rebane

03 June 2015

Gregory 410pm – This kind of ‘outsourcing’ through H1B visas is news to me. My experience with H1Bs has been as I have reported – I hired H1Bs to become peer colleagues with my staff (and me). They always received the same compensation packages as an American engineer with similar training and experience.
I support H1Bs as a means of attracting qualified foreigners to fill American jobs that go wanting, foreigners who intend to get on the US citizenship path to become new Americans. I don’t support the use of H1Bs for training outsourced foreigners who have no intention of becoming permanent residents of the US. H1Bs should not be the vehicle that the rest of the world uses to get trained up in our technologies and business practices, and then return home to compete with us. I always keep in mind that America’s current account is part of a global zero sum game.

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Gregory

03 June 2015

Walt, if the Congress wants to allow more educated or skilled people to immigrate to the USA, the Congress should issue more green cards to anyone with a Bachelor’s or better and drop the façade that you can flood the US with H1B holders for one group of professions and not displace current residents and depress wages. As it is, over half of “STEM” graduates in the US don’t work in “STEM” jobs, and as the Disney story relates, the ones they are bringing in aren’t always up to the job themselves. It’s about low price, not quality.
I can live with a more open border, just not with only science and tech employees bearing the brunt. Doctors, nurses, dentists, accountants, English teachers, math teachers. The list is endless.

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Walt

03 June 2015

Hell.. The boarder is pretty much open as it is,, and “O” and Co. is handing out green cards as fast as they are printed. And thumbing his nose at the courts who have said “NO way Jose’!”
The place I work, many are illegal, and now brag about it since “O” played his game.
I’m pretty much the only white guy there. Think I can claim minority status?

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Gregory

03 June 2015

George, the realities of how the H1B program works has been news to you every time it comes up and if the job goes wanting, either pay, management or future prospects for the technology is probably substandard.
“H1Bs should not be the vehicle that the rest of the world uses to get trained up in our technologies and business practices, and then return home to compete with us”
But that has been the essence of the program from the beginning. Temporary non-immigrant work permits for young knowledge workers. In the case of current H1B practices, the H1B’s are the US workers for the (typically) Indian company that will be performing the jobs of the fired American workers.

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George Rebane

03 June 2015

Gregory 745pm – And that’s why for years I am on record for wanting the H1B changed so that trained foreign workers are not forced to leave after a three year period on the job. BTW, am I the only one in these discussions who has actually hired and worked with real H1B visa holders?

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San French

03 June 2015

Sorry Don, but with as many times as you’ve declared bankruptcy I don’t think I’ll take any financial advice from you…..

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Patricia Smith

04 June 2015

You guys are missig the point. The botom line is the same whether it’s Mexican laborers coming across the border to take low wage jobs or Indian immigrants taking high tech jobs – American workers are being displaced. All this talk about “high wages” is a joke. Try raising a family on $600/wk (at $15/hour). How can wages be “too high” if you can’t afford the basic necessities? The trouble is, American workers are expected to compete with oversees workers who earn .56/hour. It can’t be done with the price of goods in this country.

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Todd Juvinall

04 June 2015

Bit Patricia isn’t it you and your democrat friends (Obama EO’s) that are trying to make 30 million illegals legal? How is that good for the country, its workers and wages.

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Patricia Smith

04 June 2015

It isn’t good for the American economy! That is the ridiculous game we play. Say what they will, the Republican leadership wants immigrants here just as much as the Democrats do. The Repubs want to reward their donors with a supply of cheap labor and the Democrats want a huge block of new voters (even if it decimates the Unions).
I don’t usually listen to what politicians say, I watch what they do (and it rarely matches). We either need to ditch both major parties or hold them accountable when they stray from their campaign promises (but we never do – we keep re-electing them). In fact, we are the problem!

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fish

04 June 2015

Posted by: Patricia Smith | 04 June 2015 at 08:00 AM
That is the ridiculous game we play. Say what they will, the Republican leadership wants immigrants here just as much as the Democrats do. The Repubs want to reward their donors with a supply of cheap labor and the Democrats want a huge block of new voters (even if it decimates the Unions).
Should it disturb me that I am agreeing with the “opposition” as much as I have been the past few days?

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Todd Juvinall

04 June 2015

It is OK fish, I too sometimes agree with the “opposition” but they never agree with me. I think the right is truly a lot more agreeable anyway.
The reason the R’s of the self proclaimed “country club set” want immigration may be for that cheap labor? I really have never seen a “leading” Republican or business say that but maybe it is true. Logically, why would a company bring in more democrat union voters to take over their company? Walmart is experiencing that ploy every day. Hell, they hire the poor the elderly and the “dregs” of the country trying to stave off the takeovers attempt by the labor unions, SEIU and illegals.
Regarding “cheap labor”. Most of the labor in the country is hired by the leftwing. Nannies, gardeners, Sheetrock hangers, you name it, the left is eager to hire them. And all those dollars head back to the home country and the only people that get a little of them here are the grocery stores. Those stores now have a special section just for the illegals. So our country’s ER’s are overrun, we taxpayers get to pay a gazillion bucks for every little birth by a border crosser who makes it to our hospitals and we can’t even get them to speak our language. Blame Teddy Kennedy for most of the mess.

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Todd Juvinall

04 June 2015

Oops, one last point. After fifty years of being beaten over the head by the liberal media that anyone, especially Republicans tah are against illegal immigration are bigots etc. Is it any wonder they are “gunshy”?

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Patricia Smith

04 June 2015

Todd, are you seriously insinuating that most businesses are run by (gasp) liberals? So most hotels, home developers, meat processors, and restaurants are owned by Libs. We must be doing better than I thought!
And are you saying that only “lefties” hire illegals to clean their homes, care for their children, or manicure their lawns? You are seriously biased. If in doubt, blame it on the liberals!!

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Todd Juvinall

04 June 2015

Prove me wrong Patricia. You made a blanket statement that R’s want cheap labor so prove it.

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George Rebane

04 June 2015

RR has argued the position that big corporations that survive and prosper only with the help of big government (regulations and welfare) are hopelessly corrupt in a totally bipartisan manner. Many other writers have come to very similar if not identical conclusions, most recently I refer you to Charles Murray’s By the People.

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Gregory

04 June 2015

“I support H1Bs as a means of attracting qualified foreigners to fill American jobs that go wanting” – GR
Most of the Monster classifieds in the Chronicle ostensibly looking for applicants for tech jobs only provide a ‘snail mail’ address. Even well known web companies. No email contact, no web link to apply, no fax number to transmit a cover letter and resume.
Question: does anyone think they are looking for qualified applicants, or trying to produce evidence of the job going wanting for the functionary at La Migra to approve the H1B for the designated foreign worker?
H1B in reality is a subsidy to large employers that is paid not by taxpayers in general but by legal residents in the targeted professions. It would be union busting if they were unionized but in general, they are not.

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Russ Steele

04 June 2015

BREAKING – EPA:
Fracking poses no ‘widespread, systemic’ harm to drinking water
Ouch, that’s going to leave a mark. Via Politico – A much-anticipated EPA report on hydraulic fracturing hands a victory to the oil and gas industry by concluding that the extraction process has “not led to widespread, systemic impacts on drinking water resources,” according to a draft copy of the agency’s release obtained by POLITICO.…
This will not sit well with our local lefty cohort of progressives.

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Patricia Smith

04 June 2015

Todd, 8:47am: the proof is in their hiring practices. If they were really concerned about illegal immigration, they wouldn’t hire them. I’m not saying that Dems or Libs don’t hire illegals too, but unlike you, I’m not trying to say my side is better than your side. I’m saying that all this discussion about “we’re better than you” gets us no where. I believe that both sides agree on more than they disagree and if we could start looking for solutions, maybe we could meet in the middle. I think we all agree that the current system is NOT working.
It seems that American know-how has devolved into no-how.

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Patricia Smith

04 June 2015

Russ Steele, 9:30 am Dig deeper and this is what Forbes has to say about the EPA report on fracking:
Stripped right to its roots the report states that deep groundwater has been contaminated as a result of frakking. Both from the frakking chemicals themselves and also with methane that has, as a result of the frakking, seeped into the water.
Regardless that our water is being contaminated, they still support fracking as long as it adds $$ to the corporate bottom line.

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Paul Emery

04 June 2015

Yeah Patricia, clean water, a trivial price to bay if there’s a buck to be made.
““It was so bad sometimes that my daughter would be in the shower in the morning, and she’d have to get out of the shower and lay on the floor” because of the dizzying effect the chemicals in the water had on her, recalls Craig Sautner, who has worked as a cable splicer for Frontier Communications his whole life. She didn’t speak up about it for a while, because she wondered whether she was imagining the problem. But she wasn’t the only one in the family suffering. “My son had sores up and down his legs from the water,” Craig says. Craig and Julie also experienced frequent headaches and dizziness.
By October 2009, the D.E.P. had taken all the water wells in the Sautners’ neighborhood offline. It acknowledged that a major contamination of the aquifer had occurred. In addition to methane, dangerously high levels of iron and aluminum were found in the Sautners’ water.”
http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2010/06/fracking-in-pennsylvania-201006

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Gregory

04 June 2015

Paul, while that may have sold a few copies of Vanity Fair, there is newer information from what most would consider a relatively unbiased source:
The new study of 11,309 drinking water wells in northeastern Pennsylvania concludes that background levels of methane in the water are unrelated to the location of hundreds of oil and gas wells that tap hydraulically fractured, or fracked, rock formations. The finding suggests that fracking operations are not significantly contributing to the leakage of methane from deep rock formations, where oil and gas are extracted, up to the shallower aquifers where well water is drawn.
http://news.sciencemag.org/environment/2015/03/methane-drinking-water-unrelated-fracking-study-suggests

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Walt

04 June 2015

Nice try. Loom how OLD what Patrica is trying to pass off.
“Dec 10, 2011 – The EPA’s report on groundwater contamination by fracking (or … Stripped right to its roots the report states that deep groundwater has been contaminated as a result of frakking. Both from the frakking chemicals themselves and also with methane that has, as a result of the frakking, seeped into the water.
Word for word.
Did you get it the same way? ripped right from Google?
Uh,, Patricia… They have a burning water issue right down in Linda… No fracking there,, or is it contamination from Beale? (yet unreported)

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Walt

04 June 2015

DAMN these new glasses!! LOOK,, not “loom”…. Back to the eye doc.

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Paul Emery

04 June 2015

Gregory
I’m glad you are willing to use Science Mag as a reliable source. Here’s what they have to say about Ocean warming.
” Large swaths of the ocean could become inhospitable to many kinds of marine life as the world warms. That’s the conclusion of a new study, which finds that rising water temperatures will make perhaps 20% of the ocean less habitable for many fish and crabs by reducing available oxygen. ”
http://news.sciencemag.org/climate/2015/06/world-warms-ocean-habitats-shrink

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Walt

04 June 2015

Key word Paul,,”could”.. Translation from ECO speak to real world,, ” not bloody likely”.

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Paul Emery

04 June 2015

Did you read the article Walt?

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Walt

04 June 2015

Why? You don’t read anything I put forth,, and sally forth with whatever tirade your on.
You served up what you consider the meat and taters of it. It’s typical doom and gloom
penmanship.

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Todd Juvinall

04 June 2015

Jeeze, now we humans are making the oceans warmer? Who wooda thunkj. The damn sunshine was my guess but those darn SUV’s are at it again.
Same for fracking. Even though the wells doing the fracking are thousands of feet below the H2O tables, those pesky eco’s figured they had another “hysterical” possibility.
Life for humans is hard enough, just ask the Somalia gals who walk miles for a few twigs. I bet they would like that fracked natgas.

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Gregory

04 June 2015

Paul, where did I say sciencemag was “a reliable source” or, what you are trying to imply, an authoritative source. My phrase was “relatively unbiased”, meaning some reasonable people read the paper and believed it worthy of mention.
Walt isn’t that far off; marine biologists finding that a particular rise in ocean temps would have an impact on the range of marine critters says absolutely nothing about the quality of the forecast of the temps
In any case, I am confident that the AAAS and Science Magazine scientific standards for the information they publish is far above that of Vanity Fair.

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Walt

04 June 2015

Yup blame that rise in ocean temps on me when I took a leak off the pier on my last trip to Hawaii.

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Bill Tozer

04 June 2015

Patricia, what most fail to realize is that knocking on the door on all fronts is a lower standard of living. And will last at least a generation. Maybe you and I will just feel it nipping at the heels as we exit stage right,
Bottom line, good middle class paying jobs are out there, but many are gone, gone, gone with the wind. High scale wages being threaten by legal visa work permitted skilled techies and at the other end, illegal immigrants and other foreign nationals taking jobs most of us cannot accept or even bother to seek because we cannot possibly live on the pay. A lower standard of living for most cometh, whether anybody likes it or not.
We don’t even need to point out some of the symptoms, many of the causes, or much else. Raise the minimum wage or not. Ban offshoring. Raise tariffs. Clamp down on the visas to the Indian engineers and build the wall around the Mexican border or not. You won’t live comfortable on peon labor in the past, present, or future.
Good ole fashioned factory middle class wages and single breadwinner families have less and less of a chance landing a good long term job and it gets slimmer looking down the road. What you have your eye on today may be gone in short order. Yep, a lower standard of living cometh.

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Walt

04 June 2015

Well,, legalizing weed is the cure all answer of corse. Plenty of jobs trimming buds, and on the high end of the spectrum, people with degrees in horticulture. But those positions will be snatched up by those immigrants (H1B) because they know how to grow the good stuff
where they come from too. Taiwanese are world renowned for what they can grow. Yes siree Bob! The california weedman will be out of a job sooner than one thinks. The immigrants will corner the markets, just like they have with every stop and rob, and smoke shop.

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Patricia Smith

05 June 2015

Walt, 2:37pm I sometimes question whether the human race should be included in the “intelligent life” category.

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Ben Emery

06 June 2015

Greg and Todd,
“90% of Americans were happy with their health care and it delivery system.”- Todd J.
“89 percent [were] satisfied with the quality of care they receive”
This is a very weasel worded phrase. The “of care the receive” is where we need to focus.
How about the care they don’t receive due to the insurance companies denying the care?
How about those nearly 50 million who could not get general care since they didn’t have insurance?
How about the fact that the average US participant pays on average twice as much as the next closest developed nation for health care and 80% of the people were dissatisfied?
You guys will go through a haystack of dissatisfaction to find the needle of being satisfied instead of looking at the big picture. Where they we go again, you guys live in the micro and totally ignore the macro.

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Ben Emery

06 June 2015

It should read
Here we go again, …..

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