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[A fresh sandbox was overdue. Among the topics spawned hereunder, Watashi-wa would like to see a discussion of the current news that Russ Steele introduced as 'boots on the ground' in the 3may15 sandbox, and repeated below –
BEIRUT (AP) — U.S. commandos mounted a rare raid into eastern Syria overnight, killing a senior Islamic State commander in a firefight, capturing his wife and rescuing a Yazidi woman held as a slave, the Pentagon said Saturday.]
My own take on the Delta Force commando raid in Syria is that such in-and-out stealthy strikes do not count as ‘boots on the ground’ in any theater. Such missions are important force projections without even any short term commitments connected to them. It tells our enemies that there is literally no where you can hide and be safe if we decide to bring you or take you out.
Boots on the ground means a protracted stay in harm’s way on someone else’s turf. For instance, our troops training the Kurds and Iraqi military in a battle zone would be considered ‘boots on the ground’. Ergo, today we have boots on the ground in Iraq.
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On the subject of money loosing trains,, Just wait for the massive losses of the Brown Streak. Not counting the current losses, and not a foot of track has been laid.
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Walt 1223pm – “Brown Streak”?! that sounds like a sanitary problem. Most certainly it will induce one when the bill comes due.
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That was pretty good, Doctor.. Agree with you on your Syrian take. It was a nice, surprise strike. Need more of them.
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Walt, you were talking about boarder security on the May3 box. Do you still have tenants at your property that got trashed? By your comment I assume that the locks got destroyed and need to be replaced?
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Nope,, sold it at a loss, and the guy who has it now is still doing repairs.
Then the county got in on the fun when the permit was pulled. All those nice new mandates LIBS in Sac. just HAD to impose. RL did a great sketch on that discussion. Your memory failing you?
How about the MJ folks make up my loss? The damage that was done would have been allowed if “S” would have passed. ( like that would ever happen)
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Doc. Funny thing about publicly funded ( at gun point actually) rail systems.
The advertised cost is never right. Hawaii is finding that out, and the natives are pissed.
That one is also 4x and counting over budget, and not even half built. The sales tax will sunset, and the “pro rail” group there now wants to keep the sales tax permanent. ( yes.. Stick it to the tourists, on top of all the other tourist taxes they already have)
No such luck here in Ca. Everyone who will never even use that train will get sodomized for it’s cost.
http://ballotpedia.org/California_Proposition_1A,_High-Speed_Rail_Act_%282008%29
“The proposed California High Speed Rail line would be more expensive than every other active HSR proposal in the country put together. While subsidized by everyone who pays the regressive sales tax, its users would have a higher than average income, so it is a subsidy from the poor to the rich. It would cost about $600-$1000 person or $2000-$3000 per California household before a single trip is made. This money could support about 20,000 teachers or police perpetually. For every $1 spent by the passenger, it would entail $4 in public subsidy, twice the annual expenditure of the State Transportation Improvement Program”
http://nexus.umn.edu/projects/hsr/hsr-factsheet.html
But what the hell… It’s only OPM….
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Walt 0118pm – True enough, but what if, as I have discovered, we are the “other people”?
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Exactly… “we” IS them….. ( fork it over)
On a different note those who push for computer controlled everything, ( yes,, even the wrecked train)
Take a gander at what happened in the air by a pissed off “smart guy”.
http://www.wired.com/2015/05/feds-say-banned-researcher-commandeered-plane/
Great! from planes, trains, and automobiles will be “automated”, And ripe for hacking
by a school kid looking for shits and giggles. ( then there is Omar lurking in the shadows too. “he” was able to hack our top secret drone.)
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While the rescue of the hapless slave is nice the real prize will be in the computers and documents swept up in the process. Frankly we should talk less about these kind of operations because there is a window that can be exploited before everyone knows this info node is gone. Its the desperation in 0’s house that drives this kind of counter productive PR. Did anyone hear the asst. press secretary’s back and forth with the ABC news guy on how great things are in Iraq/Syria?
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George, 16 May 2015 at 11:22 AM
My usual question, reverse the circumstances and it was within US borders that a foreign military came in and shot up people? Would you consider that boots on the ground and an act of war?
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Walt, any Hawaiian on Oahu who commutes around Honolulu will be pissed, whether or not they build out some mass transit. Its THE Worst auto traffic in the US relative to the size of the city. They have to figure out something mass transit related. I wouldn’t go near Oahu except to change planes. Big Island primarily.
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…boarder security went right over…..
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Ben. How do you know that the Mossad hasn’t carried out just that on U.S. soil?
Or the Russians? The media is pretty good at taking orders from our government.
There is plenty that is never in the news. Just like terrorist threats that have been neutralized right here at home that have been hushed up. Yes. Bush stopped many, yet not a peep from the press.
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Now your really full of it. “jon”. I didn’t have any problems, and it’s now worse than anywhere else. I happen to read the Hawaiian news pretty much daily. My Grand kids’s boyfriend is from the Islands, and their family has a good stake in the coffee grows.
I doubt you have even read what I have posted from there, let alone the news from there in the past two years.
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In case you missed it ben we have been at war for the last 14years! 0 claiming victory then cutting and running has only emboldened the opposition and we have a near biblical level explosion from north Africa to Pakistan and everywhere in between. They have in fact already been shooting and blowing up a lot of places here Or has PBS failed to cover it? Wasn’t there something about a federal death penalty this week? I know, workplace violence etc. etc. etc. With the 0 executive open boarder initiative its going to get worse. From letting in anyone from the middle east who claims asylum with no history checks and not even trying to stop the flow from the south you can bet we will be paying for those mistakes too.
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BenE 402pm – Be advised that ‘boots on the ground’ is a foreign policy term of art that has currency in the US denoting some notion of extended military ground engagement in a foreign country. Its use is to evaluate political promises made.
If any foreign power covertly or against our wishes puts its military on US soil, it is an act of war. Fine points like ‘boots on the ground’ wouldn’t enter the discussion. Syria is not making anything of our commando raid on its territory because 1) it can’t do anything about, and 2) the raid was to the benefit of its own war with ISIS.
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There have been reports of Mexican military making incursions onto U.S. soil. ( under “O”‘s watch) Probably helping drug smugglers. Our Boarder patrols have come under heavy weapons fire. Yet nothing was done about it. ( Google it)
Now ISIS is reported to have camps in Mexico. What is to stop those same Mexican troops from helping them cross? No news of U.S. raids on those camps. Yes, the enemy is at the gates, and “O” and Co. can care less.
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Workplace violence in the same breath as war and terror? Blame that on Obama too. Nice one Don.
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Walt, with all those thousands of yahoos down there at the “boarder” as you say, why hasn’t a photo emerged of Mexican troops on US soil? You guys are just amazing.
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Walt, more details about the Isis camps in Mexico please. WorldNet Daily must have the specifics..
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Walt, regarding Hawaii- please stop touting your supposed intimate knowledge about Hawaii. I’ve been going there for more years than you can count I would imagine.
http://archives.starbulletin.com/2008/06/18/news/story02.html
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Mr. Jon: Today I stopped by the breakfast joint to get a cup of java, aka, Christian Crank. The waitress asked “Cream in your coffee, sir?” I replied “Not lately.”
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“jon” is really “loosen it”. The next knock on the door will be from some nice men in white coats. I advise you go quietly. They will help you get back on the proper medication.
Speaking of nut jobs,, Another LIB blows a fuse.
http://www.kcra.com/news/did-rep-loretta-sanchez-make-a-questionable-comment-about-native-americans/33065344
Yup,, that will get ya’ elected…
You were in Hawaii “jon”? Which one of the street urchins were ya’? They were 3 deep on the sidewalk when I was there just last year. Nevada City has nothing on Waikiki beach.
I went in the style I’m accustomed to.( 1st class) And you? ( cargo class?)
As for that new rail line,,, it’s falling apart already. Nice big cracks in the prefab castings, and the construction Co. is already making excuses. They just can’t make quality concrete anymore. They sure knew how back before WWII,, the big artillery bunker (which is now a museum,,Fort De Russy) couldn’t be demolished no matter how much they tried. ( people went broke trying)
OK smart guy,, which local from here got elected “there”? ( and to which position)
Now no google work. That would be cheating.
Just love the history of the place. I go every chance I can get.
Gotta get back soon, because the volcano is up to something, and would like to be there when it does.
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Tozer,much,much better!…
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The dark lord of liberal lament land can not even engage. Too sweet. Hassan terror took an act of congress to get the victims reclassified from 0’s workplace violence to a terrorist event. Trollalicious of you.
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Walt, sidewalks of Waikiki? I inhabit places on the Big Island you will never see. If I see the volcano erupt, I’ll let you know. None of the dreaded VOG last month, and not much lava activity.
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CAn someone exp;ain the Constitutionality of us sending commandos to a foreign nation without Congressional approval and at least discussion?
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Paul – Obama is the commander in chief. The Constitution means nothing to him. And how do you know it wasn’t discussed?
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I think there is a Resolution in place giving Obama Congressional approval for these things. Passed when we went into Iraq.
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PaulE 128am – I believe one stave of constitutional backing our president has for these types of forays was established as an executive power for the federal government to provide national security when Jefferson sent the Marines to Tripoli, and TRoosevelt again sent Marines to Morocco, and Obama killed Osama (there have no doubt been other such episodes that don’t come to mind now). But I believe your point is a good one, and needs to be revisited when we execute one of these strikes.
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Todd
there is considerable discussion among the true Conservatives about the Constitutionality of our actions in Syria. This is a typical one from Ron Paul.
“Ron Paul, America’s most outspoken libertarian and anti-mainstream politician, has slammed US military strikes in Syria and Iraq.
Not known for mincing his words or flip-flopping, Paul told RT’s Abby Martin that President Obama’s decision to use military force in Iraq and Syria against the Islamic State [IS], without approval from the UN or the US Congress, was “immoral and illegal” under US and international law.
READ MORE: Ron Paul: Imperial presidency, abuse of presidential powers have grown since Nixon
The “whole mess that we’ve been involved in in the Middle East has been technically illegal because we’ve initiated war, but we haven’t declared war,” Paul told Abby Martin in RT’s “Breaking the Set” show.
“I consider what’s going on now, specifically in these last few weeks, totally immoral,” Paul said. “I think it’s illegal under our laws and illegal under international law as well.”
http://rt.com/usa/191404-paul-obama-isis-syria/
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So now we have Paul Emery telling us who the true conservatives are. LOL!! SO Paul what about the continued use of weapons of mass destruction by assad? Seems the good rev al has found a way out of his 5 million dollar tax problem that will work better than having a 4th or 5th stored records spontaneously combust story. His daughter just filed a slip and fall suit against NY city for…… $5 million.
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Posted by: Paul Emery | 17 May 2015 at 11:57 AM
Bad news Paul…the constitution….the U.S. Constitution……we’re not using it any longer!
Whether is waging a war….err….kinetic military action in Syria or importing big chunks of Central America and Africa in an attempt to “vote America a new people” the document is stone dead.
Sorry……
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Don.
Sounds like you’re supporting Obama on this one Don. The question is not the wisdom of our action in Syria as much as it is the problem of following Constitutional guidelines embraced by our founding fathers. The Heritage Foundation has an thoughtful piece on the subject. Their essay includes this:
“Early in American history, in an era of limited peacetime budgets for military resources, Presidents tended to defer to Congress. In modern times, the debate over the allocation of war powers between Congress and the President is dramatically affected by the institution of a large United States peacetime military force following World War II. Starting with the Korean War, modern Presidents have been more aggressive in asserting unilateral authority to engage in war without declaration or other congressional authorization. In 1973, Congress attempted to affirm its control over war through passage, over President Richard M. Nixon’s veto, of the War Powers Resolution. Presidents have generally refused to recognize the constitutional operation of the War Powers Resolution, although Presidents have often taken actions “consistent” with the War Powers Resolution to avoid unnecessary conflict with Congress.”
I suggest a thorough reading. Here is the link.
http://www.heritage.org/constitution#!/articles/1/essays/49/declare-war
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re PaulE’s 1258pm – from the Heritage piece, “…the Framers were undoubtedly aware of the general rule that, as Hugo Grotius had put it, ‘By the law of nature, no declaration is required when one is repelling an invasion.’” Interesting point when interpreted in light of 21st century technology instead of 18th century technology.
Back then, all invasions started at your shoreline or border, and there was no doubt as to what the constitutional response should be to keep the nation secure. That is not the case today when we must secure the nation from attacks and ‘invasions’ which can launch in far off lands, and be executed by literally anybody (e.g. non-state actors). Such an ‘invader’ may be momentarily visible to us when on foreign soil, and then becomes invisible as he departs for America. The President has to rapidly answer such threats that in many ways are constitutionally murky, and we may need either more categorical congressional guidance on such matters, or give the President his leave to interpret past guidance and act as necessary to protect the country when it doesn’t require protracted military efforts.
I support President Obama in his policy of commando and drone attacks to strike back at avowed existential threats to America. It appears to be the only successful part of his foreign policy.
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No Thanks Emery, I don’t need the cliff notes, I read the originals myself. Who was the first American President to attack an Arab Country without benefit of a congressional declaration and who also did not think one was required? For $200 Alex.
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Sandbox breaking news: The fruit of the poison tree:
http://nypost.com/2015/05/17/al-sharptons-daughter-sues-city-for-5m-after-spraining-ankle/
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DonB, I don’t think he read “Jefferson’s War”.
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This is one grand experiment.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/05/14/lanai-hotels-closed_n_7280326.html
Just think of the small business that will be taking it in the shorts.
But when one has so much money to play with,,, only time will tell.
Lets see what the new charges will be come next year, The cost of “green” is going to be a LOT MORE “green”. ( as in big bucks)
Make your reservations now “jon”,,
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DonB 330pm – I think I gave the answer away in my 1042am 😉
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George, 16 May 2015 at 05:43 PM
That doesn’t answer the question. What would you call a covert military action of a foreign nation on US soil killing people? Would you consider an act of war? Would you consider it a military action?
This is such an open question there is no gotcha involved. Either you believe the US can do what ever it damn well pleases anywhere it wants or you don’t, which is it?
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Oh Ben, we can’t do whatever we please in Northern Europe or Austrilia, or even Austria for that matter. They be countries of Western Culture and are full of white folk. Thus, your theory is wrong. We only can do what we please in countries full of ragheads and bush rats. You are only paranoid until proven correct.
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On a side note to Ben, I spoke with Kelly last week, and he informs me that you are doing much, much better. We are very glad for you and are very pleased that you are well! Way to triumph!
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BenE 817pm – I answered your question precisely in my 543pm, we would consider it an act of war – please reread.
Now your second point is so disconnected that I don’t understand it well enough to answer it. BTW, to ease your mind as you reformulate, I don’t believe in our having any symmetrical qualms with non-state actors who attempt to do us harm while operating out of a third party sovereign nation-state. We should and will pre-emptively attack them whether they be on a friendly nation’s (e.g. Iraq, Yemen) soil, or within the boundaries of an unfriendly nation (e.g. Syria).
And I echo BarryP’s 914pm; hang in there.
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Has anyone else seen the movie Selma? Watched with the family this weekend. It was really good.
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Saudia Arbia has cranked up its efforts to overthrow Assad along with its allies. Assad is Iran’s ally, whose biggest trading partner is Russia. If you think Yemen is just a pawn in the Iranian-Saudi power struggle, you are correct. We will rue the day when Assad is gone and some real wingnut ragheads are running amok controling Syria, will make Syria look stable compared to his aftermath, just like what happened to Iraq when Saddam was in power and still had his head attached to his neck.
If you take your eyes off Iran for a second, you are not watching the real power play. Perhaps Obama is a genius for giving Iran Intel to bomb ISIS, Iraq bomb fight ISIS, Syria bomb ISIS, meanwhile arming Jordan and the Saudis, along with Egypt to fight Iran’s allies. This Arab vs Persian, Shitte vs Sunni power play means no boots on the ground. So, Iran double crosses us and arms the Taliban. Can’t blame them, they have Afganistan on one side of them and Iraq on the other.
Said it before. Bagdad will be the new capital of Iran as Iran becomes the real nuclear threat. Didn’t somebody write 2,000 years ago predicting the Persian Empire will rise again? Arm both sides and may the best man win….with no boots on the ground
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BarryP 639am – Thanks for the heads up; it’s in our que.
BillT 652am – Mr Tozer, this is a good and expanded version of the long held (by some of us) notion that 1)the west is not going to sort out their problems, 2) their culture requires a solution through force, 3) then give them all the guns and grenades they need to do their own sorting, and 4) make peace with the victor(s).
Now if we could only figure out how to keep all that fighting from leaking out and biting us in the ass.
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Posted by: George Rebane | 19 May 2015 at 08:32 AM
Instead of 3) then give them all the guns and grenades they need to do their own sorting, and 4) make peace with the victor(s).
We could just save the money, let them kill each other with knives, rocks and sticks, and then, 4) make peace with the victor(s).
Now if we could only figure out how to keep all that fighting from leaking out and biting us in the ass.
Well there’s the rub isn’t it. I suppose we could stop importing the 3rd world into the US while we sort out our own issues…..but then that would be like…umm…wasting all those “undocumented democrats”!
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Ouch, Dr. Rebane and Mr. Fish. I have been bitten on the ass, but never in the ass. Sounds unique, unusual, and perhaps deliciously and most delightfully painful. Much to ponder as I am deep in thought trying to visualize being bitten in the Guteus Maximus, a very large muscle.
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