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George Rebane

[This is the transcript of my regular KVMR commentary broadcast on 6 May 2015.]

“Civil asset forfeiture is a decades-old tool that gives law enforcement the power to seize property if it’s suspected of being related to a crime. … California has safeguards in place to protect innocent people from the harmful practices of civil asset forfeiture. However, a new report from the Drug Policy Alliance (download here) found that such measures haven’t stopped law enforcement agencies from using federal forfeiture laws to circumvent state policies.”  So advises a recent report in The Daily Signal.  The specifics of how the state’s corrupt law enforcement agencies take advantage of this end-run to enrich their own coffers should enrage all of us.  Unfortunately, even though this is a nationwide problem with many calls for reform, for some reason our media chooses not to report such summary takings from innocent citizens.


In recent months the thin veil of civilization has suffered several rips in various cities across the land.  The uneven public focus has been applied to something labeled racist bias in police departments or police brutality against minorities.  And this has caused our Dept of Justice to paint most local law enforcement agencies with the broad brush of racism in the minds of most black people.  Such an indictment has not always been backed by evidence (as in Ferguson), or the officers, accused of misconduct and worse, have been submitted to a peremptory trial by mob in the media even before the formal judicial process is launched.

Now I am not implying that the police in NYC and Baltimore were innocent of the deaths they caused.  But I am saying that the relationship between urban constabularies and law abiding citizens still needs a lot of healing since the race riots of the 1960s, in spite of the great gains made by minorities over the intervening decades.

Today we are being told of an established conflict of interest between these same law enforcement agencies and the citizens of all races, means, and backgrounds.  Whenever a police action can result in a direct financial benefit to the police department, you can be sure that such actions will be misused and abused.  This is exactly what has happened with civil asset forfeitures in which the police effectively wind up being the judge, jury, and executioner in seizing private property using applicable federal laws to circumvent more restrictive state laws.

In California alone, civil asset forfeitures have increased from $36M in 2002 to over $100M in 2013.  And we have to realize that such forfeitures occur outside of established due processes in which there is a presumption of innocence before the property is seized.  In such seizures all that is required is for the police to have an internal determination that the property in question is “suspected” of being related to criminal activity in some way.

Placing such peremptory takings under federal law gives local police additional cover, since then they are participating with federal agents under the Department of Justice, and subsequently split the take as prescribed by that department’s so-called Equitable Sharing Program.  In states with relatively lax civil forfeiture laws, the state and police departments split the loot 50-50.  However, in states like California with strict forfeiture laws, the police working under federal law get to keep 80% of the take.

All of these roughshod policing policies serve to erode public confidence in local law enforcement.  Arguing that they are necessary to reduce crime rates doesn’t hold water.  What such policies do is shift perceived criminality and injustice from hoodlums to those charged with maintaining security under our system of law and order.  When our police practice thuggery without recourse, we will come to live under a totalitarian system like the former USSR which also trumpeted its low crime rates.  In closing, I want to remind listeners that just because it isn’t in the news does not mean it is not happening – do your own research and then contact your elected representatives.

Speaking of doing your own research, if you want to find out more about the ongoing State of Jefferson movement and voice your opinion, then attend next Tuesday’s meeting of the Nevada County Board of Supervisors at the Rood Center after lunch.

My name is Rebane, and I also expand on this and related themes on georgerebane.com where the transcript of this commentary is posted with relevant links, and where such issues are debated extensively.  However my views are not necessarily shared by KVMR.  Thank you for listening.

 

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105 responses to “The Rising Tide of Civil Asset Forfeiture”

  1. Russ Steele Avatar

    George,
    The Kelly File on Fox News had a long segment on the civil asset forfeiture law and the impact on small business last night. They used as an example a mom and pop store that sold fish sandwiches, gas and cigarettes. The owner was making deposits under $10,000, as he said to avoid the hassle of filling out the federal paper work for deposits over $10,000. Megan Kelly promised the owner that she would stay on the story until his money was returned. The feds took his account of $107,000 dollars, of which their were $60,000 in checks written to suppliers that bounced. It put him out of business, until family and friends help raise some operating cash.

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  2. George Rebane Avatar

    RussS 909pm – Since there are so many obvious abuses and a rising outcry, I wonder why the DoJ has not made a statement about that. Perhaps it’s too profitable to the feds. Soft tyranny rising.

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  3. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    I assume Russ is talking about the IRS seizing peoples money.
    They don’t even bother to do any investigation of any wrongdoing. They simply hose bank accounts. Then the victim has to spend thousands on lawyers to try to get some of the money back. The IRS can keep the money even though the person is never charged, let alone convicted of any crime. The fed govt is completely out of control. And the left loves to paint any politician that speaks of ending this practice as a wild eyed right-wing nut.

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  4. Brad C. Avatar
    Brad C.

    I wonder what our county’s forfeiture statistics look like? RMJ/MMJ business related properties would be low hanging fruit and I could see the forfeiture overreach line being easily crossed. In these cases, growers might be reluctant to raise a stink, for fear of reprisals. There is a danger that forfeited materials might not even make it to the county or state levels. If you are going to wear an official badge, you need to hold yourself to high moral and ethical standards.

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  5. George Rebane Avatar

    BradC 808am – “If you are going to wear an official badge, you need to hold yourself to high moral and ethical standards.” Since official badge wearers have done so well for so long without such encumbrances, pray, from where does this “need” arise?

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  6. Bonnie McGuire Avatar

    I remember when it started many years ago, and the controversy. Search and seisure of private property was considered unconstitutional. The foot in the door was over illegal drugs mostly…any excuse. I remember a local man accused of something and his pickup seized and sold before his court appearance where he was declared innocent. He lost his means to drive to work and earn a living. There were others too. I believe this practice corrupts law enforcement. There was a great video showing what’s been going on with this illegal practice. If you have any valuables in your car and get pulled over. Some policemen take it claiming you did something illegal to justify the taking. It will cost you to prove your innocence to get your property back…if ever. That’s why the oath to protect, and why those who broke it were subject to greater punishment than ordinary law breakers.

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  7. Walt Avatar

    Seems what I said in the past fell on deaf ears. Eric Holder and his boys used asset forfeiture vary Liberally after “O” too office right here in Ca. going after dope growers, even after “O” ” promised” ,,” If he were elected” not to go after states with MMJ laws on the books. Hummm.. How did that work out? Ca. was his first target. Hell.. When a grower was cut from the heard, and the cuffs thrown on, said property ( ANYTHING that could even possibly be tied to being paid for with ill gotten gains) was seized and/or sold, and since the FEDS got what they wanted rarely even charged the guy. ( that would cost money and time) and dragged out the “investigation” until it got lost in the weeds.
    New Mexico has just passed a law ending the practice. And a LIB state no less.
    As I recall, back in the 90’s, the only time forfeiture was done, was after a conviction.
    That’s when meth was the big money maker.

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  8. George Rebane Avatar

    Walt 1234pm – So how is NM going to enforce its state law over its police end-running to the feds?

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  9. Polly Parrot Avatar
    Polly Parrot

    Your Sheriff has made over $1 million dollars this past year….

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  10. Walt Avatar

    Here is what NM did.
    http://www.abqjournal.com/567598/politics/civil-asset-forfeiture-bill-signed-into-law-by-gov-susana-martinez.html
    With “O” in charge, there is little chance of changing what the FEDS do. Just don’t tell Hillary. She will use that as the next vote buying scam. ” I will do everything in my power, within the law* to end asset forfeiture”. ( Now some Lefty will shoot her off an Email)

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  11. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    Our new AG won’t be much different –
    http://truthinmedia.com/ag-nominee-loretta-lynch-boasts-having-seized-904-million-through-asset-forfeitures-in-2013-alone/
    It’s a wonderful tool.
    Actually, Loretta – you’re the tool.
    Where’s B Sanders and that injun gal on this topic?
    Where’s our lefty friends that boast of being against an overbearing fed govt?
    I know where Cruz and Paul stand.

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  12. Patricia Smith Avatar

    OMG! Stop the press, we agree on something. I had to check to see if I had wandered onto the wrong blog.
    Asset forfeiture is one of the terrible side effects of the War on Drugs that has trickled down to “ordinary” citizens. It is revolting that the government can take away everything you own WITHOUT EVEN CHARGING YOU WITH A CRIME.
    The sad truth is that local governments get 80% of all the money the Feds get from asset forfeitures as a bribe to turn against the citizens they are sworn to protect. Ask a constitutional Sheriff what he thinks about this practice. It would be interesting to find out how much money Nevada County has received from these ill gotten gains.

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  13. George Rebane Avatar

    PatriciaS 833am – Now come on Patty, you and I also agree that MJ should be legalized. We just have some differences in how it should be legalized.

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  14. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    I am still amazed the SCOTUS held that “asset forfeiture” is Constitutional. How can one be deprived of their property before a trial and conviction? It is not right.

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  15. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    Todd – this is the same branch of govt that found that a farmer growing wheat for his own family’s consumption could be fined under the interstate commerce clause.
    All sorts of explicit Constitutional rights are tossed aside by the very institution that should be upholding them.
    How is it OK these days to be driving along and find yourself detained by law enforcement with no probable cause?
    How can it be legal to force a person to sell their home to a developer of a private for-profit shopping center?
    The bottom line: why is it legal for the fed govt to take money from us for any other reason than the ones spelled out in law. Once that line is crossed, you have lost your rights to own anything. You have what you have only at the whim of the current powers that be.

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  16. Patricia Smith Avatar

    George, I was only joking about finding something we agree on. I agree with many “conservative” ideas like a flat tax, the death penalty (in some circumstances), and gun owner’s rights.
    I’m also concerned about the erosion of our rights at the hand of law enforcement (from the DoJ on down). There has been a move to reinterupt laws to suit their agenda. Asset forfeiture laws were created to take down Drug Kingpins – not to punish everyday citizens.
    Now LE is circumventing the warrant requirement by refusing to show the document when asked. Sometimes, they haven’t produced a warrant months after barging into someone’s home.
    ASA-NC’s next public event is a Know Your Rights workshop that will be held on Tuesday, May 19, 6:00pm at the Golden Empire Grange. Some people complain about things, others try to do something proactive.

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  17. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    ScottO, yes I agree but until we somehow rid the “legal” misuse of the Commerce Clause, there is nothing the Feds can’t do.

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  18. Gary Smith Avatar

    There was some interest in how much is seized locally. It is published in the legal section of the Union several times a year. You can access it by the searching the classified section. From 11-14 to 3-15 law enforcement in Nevada County seized about $375,000. No small chuck of change

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  19. Don Bessee Avatar
    Don Bessee

    Most of the money forfeited in Nevada County last year was related to the murder of one drug dealer by another in a big green house. It involved multiple pot farms on different properties and there was a car at the scene with hundreds and hundreds of thousands in cash in it. I find it interesting that while the DOJ is claiming to reverse the trend because of abuses it looks like the IRS is ramping up their version of it. Not a surprise that polly patty parrot would inflate the figures to inflame.

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  20. Joe Koyote Avatar
    Joe Koyote

    What about organizations like the WTO, how do they fit into the scheme? They come in from the outside and impose regulations and law suits. For example, I think is was Alberta, Canada that passed a law that would give “green” manufacturers tax breaks or other subsidies if they hire 60% local labor. The WTO filed suit on behalf of Chinese solar panel company for unfair trade because the law gave local companies an unfair trade advantage via subsidized labor. Or the Canadian company that is suing CA for limiting PCB use, a known carcinogen, claiming they lost profits.

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  21. George Rebane Avatar

    JoeK 552pm – Insanity reigns. But we haven’t seen anything yet; wait until or if ever the Trans Pacific Partnership kicks in.

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  22. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    How can LE seize your guns without due process?? Silly me, I thought guns were property and no property can be taken without due process. Not even a search warrant needed to snatch property without due process.
    On a lighter note, have an old high school buddy who once had a business storing seized assets. He was the guy who even stored the Ted Kazinsky cabin we saw saw on TV on the flatbed trailer being hauled out from Montana. Never lifted a finger, just stored seized assets as LE turn over to him good stuff like yachts, exotic cars, planes, etc. Good money and all he did was farm out the storage facilities to other people who had places and security. There was a multi-million dollar yacht he had “stored” for quite a spell as the owner went thru the slow moving wheels of justice. Finally after the owner was convicted, the Feds auctioned it off for a loss. Only Uncle Sam can take a muti-million yacht or a bunch of Ferraris and lose money after paying folks like my buddy, lol. Sad but true. Fact is sometimes stranger than fiction. Last I heard, my high school buddy dropped like Ted Kazinsky and is a full time beach bum….er….surfer in Hawaii. Go figure.

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  23. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Oppps, dropped out like Ted Kazinski.

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  24. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    “ASA-NC’s next public event is a Know Your Rights workshop that will be held on Tuesday, May 19, 6:00pm at the Golden Empire Grange. Some people complain about things, others try to do something proactive.”
    OK – I give up. What in heck does going to a meeting where most of the folks in attendance vote in the folks that love to confiscate private property have to do with ‘doing something proactive’ about the govt confiscating private property?
    Also – “…and gun owner’s rights.” I’m always amazed at how the left views human rights as things parcelled out by the govt on a case by case basis. Gay rights, minority rights, gun owner’s rights, women’s rights.
    How about HUMAN rights? We all have the same friggin rights. No more, no less. The same rights – got it? There are no ‘special’ rights.

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  25. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    And I forgot Al Gore’s favorite right – ‘hunter’s rights’.
    I guess he thought Elmer Fudd was a founding father.

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  26. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Oh Scott, Al Gore was just hunting for votes down in The Dukes of Hazzard Country. Too bad he did not get enough votes to win his home state of Tennessee or else he would have been President Gore to us po folk.
    Some say at least VP Gore didn’t get drunk and shoot a lawyer in the butt like VP Cheney did, but I say right on Dick, good shot! (No offense to Mr. Barry Pruett, Esq.)
    Al would have sat in the Oval Office except he kept speaking his mind and spouting his idea of an inconvient truth. Not exactly the way to win friends and influence people.
    http://www.theonion.com/article/visiting-gore-calls-pennsylvania-a-hellhole-294

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  27. Polly Parrot Avatar
    Polly Parrot

    Well Don please explain how the Sheriff’s Department has had a number of @$400K per year in asset forfeitures in it’s budget for the last 4 years…..
    Seems interesting that it’s become a annual part of our Sheriff’s actual budget?

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  28. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Innocent until proven guilty is a myth in the US. Seizing and freezing private property is an accepted practice that is basically a punitive measure before a suspect has been convicted of a crime.
    I will also say this as an activist that has been hauled off to holding cells without official being charged with a crime and then released hours later, that is also an abuse of the law. The funny thing is there are so many laws on the books we all could be picked up at anytime and the police would be able to find something to charge us on.
    Ralph Nader and Andrew Napolitano on Innocent Until Proven Guilty
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6xMyjsY_o4
    The fact that young men of color are being killed left and right all over the country by police is the ultimate violation of the idea innocent until proven guilty. The police officers are the judge, juror, and executioner.
    Social Libertarian/ Anarchist Thoughts
    “The state can’t give you freedom, and the state can’t take it away. You’re
    born with it, like your eyes, like your ears. Freedom is something you
    assume, then you wait for someone to try to take it away. The degree to
    which you resist is the degree to which you are free…”
    ― Utah Phillips

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  29. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    I’m sure Ben was just walking down the street and suddenly a cop hauls him off to jail for no reason whatever. Your nose is growing a bit long, there Ben. Where’s the video?
    “The fact that young men of color are being killed left and right all over the country by police is the ultimate violation of the idea innocent until proven guilty.”
    No – it’s not. What were these ‘young men of color’ doing prior to their being shot? And why do albinos always get left out of the mix?
    Utah Phillips was big on the freedom of not having to work and taking other’s folk’s money. His radio show was ‘Loafer’s Glory’. I think that sums up the lefts lifestyle.

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  30. fish Avatar
    fish

    Ben Emery says:
    May 9, 2015 at 6:51 am
    Some times the least expensive way of doing things is the very thing that costs us the most.
    Reply

    Wow….you’re like “The Sphinx”.
    “To learn my teachings, I must first teach you how to learn.”…”He who questions training only trains himself at asking questions.”…..When you doubt your powers, you give power to your doubts.”…..”You must learn to master your anger or anger will become your master?
    You might suggest to the jeffy that if keeping the printing of the Union is indeed a profitable venture that he could use some of his IPO proceeds and buy the paper and its equipment. Keep those jobs in Nevada City.

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  31. Patricia Smith Avatar

    Don B, 5/08 4:45, Your statements are not correct. I looked up the asset forfeitures that were published in the Union and they were comprised on many different takings of cash from individuals. I don’t think the “hundreds of thousands of dollars” you referenced were included but that might have been in a different report.
    And btw, I am not Polly Parrot, but if you look, you will see that Fish and Polly share the same thumbprint. Curious.
    Scott, 5/09, 7:49 Glad you brought up the question, “Where’s the video?” The DoJ is making grants available to LE for body cameras. This is a practice the ACLU heartily endorses to keep both the police and the public safer. When there is a video recording of the entire process, many questions are answered before they are asked.

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  32. fish Avatar
    fish

    And btw, I am not Polly Parrot, but if you look, you will see that Fish and Polly share the same thumbprint. Curious.
    Not curious at all Patricia…there appears to be a small set of avatar place holder graphics assigned by typepad….apparently they need to be recycled on occasion.
    If you are concerned though I’m sure George, who has access to the IP traffic can assuage you fears that I am the dastardly “Polly Parrot”.

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  33. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    Ben Emerry 7:09 AM
    The reason things are so volatile in America is because people like Ben Emery toss bogus data around to stir everyone up. The number of black men killed by police, and for that matter all races, is way down and is nowhere near an “:epidemic”. Jeeze, how irresponsible people like Ben Emery are to foist those lies on the people of America. And I thought he was so self righteous!
    Asset forfeiture is in my view “unconstitutional” and should be abandoned as such. Hell, a man who wants a little can lose his car if he propositions a gal on the street! I also believe that prostitution should be legal. But if Ben Emery was arrested and tossed into a cell I can see why. My guess is he tossed a loogi at the cops.

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  34. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    “… many questions are answered before they are asked.”
    Exactly. Such as ‘hands up – don’t shoot’ was just a lie.
    It works both ways. Do you really think Ben was just pulled in by the police for nothing?
    Then again – do you trust the govt to provide the video of the whole process. They have proven to be masters of ‘losing’ evidence time and time again. Do you believe the IRS and Shrillery really will be getting us all the emails?
    Putting cameras on all cops is not going to end the problem. I don’t believe for a second it’s going to even do much at all to stop the rioting and racial division the left wants.
    And how does it stop the attitude that you should only have what the govt decides you should have?

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  35. George Rebane Avatar

    re BenE’s 709am – From my perch Utah Philips was an archetypical homey socialist with a dysfunctional and incoherent ideology that contained a generous sprinkling of bon mots like the one referenced on freedom. The man saw no inconsistency in promoting individual freedoms (of the correct kind) and also promoting the growth of a state that daily proscribed those freedoms.

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  36. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Scot writes at 7:49 “What were these ‘young men of color’ doing prior to their being shot?” Well in the case of Freddie Gray he was arrested for making “eye contact” with a police officer.
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2015/04/23/after-making-eye-contact-baltimore-chases-ferguson/

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  37. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 951am – Is that not another answer, based on an anecdotal exception, to a question that clearly asked for the aggregates? That response, replicated throughout these pages, seems to be on the main road of reasoning heavily traveled by the Left.

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  38. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    George
    Here you go again with the ol “anecdotal” retort to a simple factual statement. I did not attempt to paint a broad scope with my statement. What does “in this case” mean to you?

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  39. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    “The fact that young men of color are being killed left and right all over the country by police is the ultimate violation of the idea innocent until proven guilty.” Master Ben
    Black lives do matter, and young black thugs deciding to stop killing other blacks, whites and others will go a long way towards peace. That goes for thugs of all colors but blacks are overrepresented among killers of blacks.
    The young man of color in Ferguson beat up a cop, tried to take his gun and was shot multiple times as he advanced on the officer, ignoring orders to stop. That’s a recipe to be shot by the cop no matter the color of the dear departed because the cop has the same basic human right to defend themselves as everyone else, they generally have at least one gun and are trained how to use it. Even so, many cops get killed before they accurately peg the threat to them by the person or persons they are interacting with.
    In Baltimore, half the cops involved were black themselves, it’s pretty clear the indictments were hasty and overreaching and so we can probably expect fresh riots when six pounds of flesh is not forthcoming.

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  40. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 1013am – Your “simple” statement of fact answering a more profound question was just that – simple. However, you may paint yourself as you will. My 1000am stands.

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  41. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    Apparently the knife found on Freddie was illegal and after his twenty arrests the cops were very suspicious of him. So right off the bat the facts are he was not shot but somehow his spine was severed while in the police van. Perhaps he was not secured properly and was injured on the ride? Anyway, I feel bad for the cops they had to arrest this Freddie so many times. What is it they say about when someone is finally arrested? They probably committed 100 before that and were not caught. It is sad for Freddie but I do not see intent by the cops.

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  42. Don Bessee Avatar
    Don Bessee

    Patti, the drug dealer murdered in the grow house by another dealer was very well covered in the press. The case was taken over by the Feds. due to the sheer size of the whole operation spanning multiple jurisdictions. There were many hundreds of thousands of dollars involved in that case and Nevada Countys chunk was very sizable last year, something in excess of $300,000.00. Of course there were small seizures in the County but the bulk was that one case of stone drug dealers killing each other.

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  43. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    So Ben backs up his contention of a nation-wide problem with one example.
    He was a known problem Ben. And you forgot about the part where he ran from the police. The power structure in Baltimore is black as are some of the cops that have been charged. And there hasn’t even been a trial.
    That’s your proof? Good grief.

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  44. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Here’s a description from the ACLU of Civil Asset Forfeiture, originally part of the RICO act passed by Richard Nixon in 1970:
    “Police abuse of civil asset forfeiture laws has shaken our nation’s conscience. Civil forfeiture allows police to seize—and then keep or sell—any property they allege is involved in a crime. Owners need not ever be arrested or convicted of a crime for their cash, cars, or even real estate to be taken away permanently by the government. Forfeiture was originally presented as a way to cripple large-scale criminal enterprises by diverting their resources.
    But today, aided by deeply flawed federal and state laws, many police departments use forfeiture to benefit their bottom lines, making seizures motivated by profit rather than crime-fighting. For people whose property has been seized through civil asset forfeiture, legally regaining such property is notoriously difficult and expensive, with costs sometimes exceeding the value of the property. With the total value of property seized increasing every year, calls for reform are growing louder, and the ACLU is at the forefront of organizations seeking to rein in the practice.”
    Thank goodness for the ACLU standing up for our rights. Also Rand Paul is coming to the rescue by sponsoring the Fifth Amendment Integrity Restoration Act . http://www.paul.senate.gov/files/documents/ALB15102.pdf

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  45. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Here are some published examples however note that these are illegal in this blog because of suspicions of being anecdotal.
    http://dailycaller.com/2015/01/30/the-7-most-egregious-examples-of-civil-asset-forfeiture/

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  46. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 525pm – I believe you have demonstrated that you are innocent of how to tell the difference between the anecdotal and the aggregate (or synoptic). When the aggregate has been well demonstrated through the abundant evidence of aggregate statistics/data, then throwing in some examples of the same to clarify the case is no longer deemed anecdotal. When providing no evidence for or completely ignoring the aggregate, and arguing the case on the basis of outlier examples, then that is anecdotal. This has been explained to you before with no apparent impact.

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  47. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Paul @ 5:21pm. “Thank goodness for the ACLU standing up for our rights.” Yesirre, the ACLU stands tall defending our rights on 9 out of 10 Amendments. That’s a 90% batting average. I just wish the ACLU would stand up just as tall defending the Second Amendment which allows OUR God-given innate 1st Amendment rights possible against an ever growing intrusive government. That’s where the rubber meets the road.
    Suppose one of you funny pranksters calls the cops and say “That Tozer dude sure has been saying some cray-ass shit lately and he sounds threatening. I am afraid.” So, the cops come a’knocking (never alone in these cases) and confiscates my guns. No charges filed, no due process of law, nothing but hearsay, no warrant, yet my property gets a unconstitutionally seized.
    Or say I threw one of those lazy-ass ladies out of my place, out of my life, and unto the streets as I have done several times when enough became enough. Not literally “throw” them, just kick ’em out. They could file a restraining order on me tomorrow saying I am stalking their sweet round behinds or threatened to kill their grandmothers and gouge the eyes out of their dogs and cats. Again, no charges filed, no having my day in court, no nothing except I will have my property seized. Happens everyday. Do I turn to the ACLU? “Surely you jest, those aren’t real civil liberties” would be what they would say….or just crickets.

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  48. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Bill
    Might I remind you that it was the ACLU that represented Conservative super hero Oliver North and succeeded in overturning his convictions after Iran Contra.

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  49. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Mr. Paul. Yes, they defended “My Marine”, but what about defending the 2nd Amendment?????? They defended the KKK, but what about the 2nd Amendment??

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