Sandbox – 3may15

May 2015
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Sandbox – 3may15

03 May 2015

[The old sandbox is overflowing again. In the effort to evaluate and/or design alternatively powered vehicles that was initiated in the 27apr15 sandbox, it would help for our more environmentally concerned readers to recognize that the energy to move a given mass (say, automobile) from point A to B in time interval T requires a certain minimal amount of energy, regardless of the power source employed. A commenter in the last sandbox summarized it nicely in a restatement of thermodynamical non-negotiables. gjr]

Posted in Comment Sandbox

188 responses to “Sandbox – 3may15”

Patricia Smith

14 May 2015

This conversation is getting static so I thought I’d shake things up a bit. My dream team is Bernie Sanders/Elizabeth Warren (release the slings and arrows) because they prioritize PEOPLE over corporations. I don’t have a problem with any company making as much money as they can – as long as they don’t spoil the earth, air and water in the process. These assets belong to all of us. If this makes me a socialist, it makes all of you who support “corporations are people” FASCISTS.
From Wikipedia:
Fascism operated from a Social Darwinist view of human relations. The aim was to promote superior individuals and weed out the weak.[6] In terms of economic practice, this meant promoting the interests of successful businessmen while destroying trade unions and other organizations of the working class.[7] Fascist governments encouraged the pursuit of private profit and offered many benefits to large businesses, but they demanded in return that all economic activity should serve the national interest.[8] Historian Gaetano Salvemini argued in 1936 that fascism makes taxpayers responsible to private enterprise, because “the State pays for the blunders of private enterprise.
Profit is private and individual. Loss is public and social.”[9] Sound familiar?
Oh and BTW, “socialist” Scandinavian countries all place in the top ten for being the happiest people alive today. They must be doing something right! The US is #17 on the UN survey.

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Todd Juvinall

14 May 2015

Ah Patricia Smith, the old “fascist” ad hominem. Wow! Is that the best you can do? Apparently. I support all kinds of organizations and individuals because I have an open mind. You are apparently locking away yours in a iron box.
Bernie Sanders and Liz are not for “people” they are for government power over people. In the best days of Stalin and Mao they were for the “people” but those they did not care for were “eliminated” (seventy million dead). Same in North Korea and Cuba, really good “socialist” countries eh?
Socialism is a bust. It actually stifles the individual because it is “politically correct” and does not support dissent. The capitalist system, along with the US Constitution have proven to be the greatest asset for individuals in earths history. The problem is the lazy asses who just take from the makers in the system and then complain they don’t get enough.

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Joe Koyote

14 May 2015

“The capitalist system.. has proven to be…the greatest asset for individuals…..” Very true. That system has allowed about one tenth of one percent of the earth’s individuals to accumulate vast fortunes while millions starve, our infrastructure is crumbling, the flora and fauna of the planet are dying from pollution, the climate is rapidly changing from even more pollution, the disparity between rich and poor is the greatest since before the Great Depression, and our political/governmental system has been totally corrupted by money. The greater good of the few has replaced the greater good of the many. The “We the People” that was once the keynote of our country has been replaced with, “We the self indulgent brat offspring of robber barons.” Yes, corporate capitalism is really great.
“I support all kinds of organizations and individuals because I have an open mind.” Yes again, as long as they support your ideology. You will bash (and rightly so) Korea but not recognize the quality of life in the so-called “socialist” scandinavian countries that have so successfully combined capitalism with people oriented social programs.

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fish

14 May 2015

“The capitalist system.. has proven to be…the greatest asset for individuals…..” Very true.
You would have been fine had you stopped here.
That system has allowed about one tenth of one percent of the earth’s individuals to accumulate vast fortunes while millions starve……
Where are they starving? Socialist paradises like North Korea and third world monkey pits. They’re surely not starving here….. the poor in capitalist countries tend to be on the plump side if not embarrassingly obese.
our infrastructure is crumbling…..
How can that be JoKe…..the both California and the federal government are setting tax collection records. Why hasn’t the government addressed the issue instead of handing out Obama phones. Why is Uncle Feeby pushing the Crony Train so hard instead of fixing roads, bridges, and water storage facilities? Why JoKe?
……the flora and fauna of the planet are dying from pollution
Prove it!
…….the climate is rapidly changing from even more pollution
Again the models upon which you hope to enable further taxation are failing…..so again I say prove it.
…the disparity between rich and poor is the greatest since before the Great Depression, and our political/governmental system has been totally corrupted by money. The greater good of the few has replaced the greater good of the many.
Well what do you and “ol Power to the People” Emery plan to do about it?
The “We the People” that was once the keynote of our country has been replaced with, “We the self indulgent brat offspring of robber barons.” Yes, corporate capitalism is really great.
Corporate capitalism that really had it’s genesis following the 50 year progressive ascendency that started in the early 20th century. Don’t blame the corporations if they made it work better the the government did!
Time to own your failure JoKe!
“I support all kinds of organizations and individuals because I have an open mind.” Yes again, as long as they support your ideology. You will bash (and rightly so) Korea but not recognize the quality of life in the so-called “socialist” scandinavian countries that have so successfully combined capitalism with people oriented social programs.
Show me a social program in the Scandinavian countries that doesn’t have a similar program here in the US.
Hey JoKe……just claim you’re oppressed and most Scandinavian countries will offer you asylum…..convert to Islam….I hear that makes it easier!

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Todd Juvinall

14 May 2015

JoeK 10:10 AM
Wow! You are truly a left wing sourpuss and I truly feel sad for you. Did you know that the poorest people in America are economically better off than 90% of the planet’s people? Jeeze, what a poker people that whine about America appear to be. Regarding infrastructure. I think your buddy Obama and your democrats in Congress passed a almost trillion dollar stimulus for “shovel ready” projects and infrastructure projects in 2009 and all that money actually went to UNION and LABOR pension funds and job security. You want to infrastructure to be fixed? Get ri of Davis-Bacon for one thing (it was created in racism in the 30’s).
In Africa, where “capitalism” is not practiced below the Sahara, women have to walk miles to gather the remaining twigs to cook a meal. I don’t think capitalism was involved there. Flora and fauna are dying from pollution? Is that eart6h created or from outer space? Jeeze. Climate is changing from pollution? Well is that from capitalism or volcanoes? DailyKos really has you in its grip JoeK.
You actually believe the “difference” between the “rich” and the “poor” means anything? What exactly does that mean? If a person has $10,000 and another $1,000 but both have a TV, house and food, who then really cares? The “rich”, mainly the middle class (since destroyed by the democrats/socialists) and the rich have transferred 21 trillion dollars over to the “poor” and the results of this confiscation and wealth transfer (as you libs want) has produced no down tick in the 14% poverty rate. But now you want more!
Scandinavian “socialism” is just great and your example of wonderment eh? Well, they do seem to be just a bunch of homogenous “white” folks and were doing OK with their boring lives. (How many “patents” have you seen from them?). But golly JoeK, the influx of Muslims seems to now be a looming issue in those pristine socialist countries. America has people from every country and race and this great experiment has been working until you liberal/socialists took over policy and taxation. Now instead of the arrivals wanting to become Americans, you libs want them to be Balkanized and apart.
I support capitalism and corporations and individual because it works to bring people out of the poverty most people on the planet are in. You just want everyone yo be a robot.

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George Rebane

14 May 2015

JoeK 1010am – Your strong tirade appears to accuse capitalism as the cause for all the world’s ills today. Is that what you really mean to say?

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Jon

14 May 2015

How would you guys propose fixing the crumbling and unsafe infrastructure of Amtrak? I know you don’t care about city folks on the East Coast, but for the Northeast Corridor, there are a whole lot of productive capitalists who use Amtrak to conduct their business and generate revenue. No money for rail, nowhere to build more highways there with millions more cars projected on their roads in 10 years, and no new airport capacity. Doesn’t look like a private investor is going to step up and take this on. Ah the old infrastructure quandary for conservatives.

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fish

14 May 2015

Posted by: Jon | 14 May 2015 at 12:27 PM
No quandary for us at all “Jon” as we aren’t proposing fixing infrastructure. The government has been responsible for maintaining it all along and hasn’t been. My question for you is in blue northeastern states where progressives go unchallenged why are things so bad there?
Shameful really for you “cheerleaders” for big government! Now in California you want to build a high speed train when you’ve just screwed up a multi billion dollar bridge project. Your project cost numbers are worthless as are your ridership assumptions….and yet you still feel compelled to double down on an already bad bet.
So how bout it “Jon” what do you propose?

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Gregory

14 May 2015

Amtrak is perhaps the second largest socialist enterprise in the US, and it’s just f-ing incredible bodies are still warm with progressives using the accident as a cudgel for more money down the Amtrak rathole, claiming the GOP has blood on their hands.
“The average onboard employee made $41.19 an hour on Amtrak in 2012, while railroads that contracted out services to private companies paid their employees $7.75 to $13.00 an hour.”
http://www.economics21.org/commentary/PRRIA-2015-amtrak-reform-subsidies-privatization-2015-03-06

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Walt

14 May 2015

AMTRAK is just the train. The rail companies own the tracks.
AMTRAK is operated by the FED Gov.,, and even looses money in the bar car.
If it were privatized watch how fast it would turn around.
A FED employee( and a union member) had his hand on the throttle, and paid by OPM.
I really doubt money was the problem, since train drivers make BIG bucks.
The way they are talking now, the trains should be automated. GPS “speed control”
One more high dollar thing to go South. ( and more bitching about not spending enough)
” That satellite should have been replaced!”
Between ” shit happens” and good old “human error”, some LIB is always going to blame it on lack of funding.
I say take it out of JoeK’s gov. check.

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Jon

14 May 2015

Walt, your post is loaded with ignorance. Its PTC, not GPS “speed control”..which was a cute invention of yours. Amtrak itself owns the majority of the NE Corridor tracks, not the rail companies up there. And yes, they should have had the funds to install a full set of PTC systems throughout the corridor. It would have prevented the accident. But right wingers don’t like mass transit- way too socialist. So, bottlenecks, congestion and inefficient transportation systems will be the norm. No money for needed infrastructure from Repubs in Congress, or from Donald Trump.
Sounds like a Mitt Romney plan- rail professionals at $8/hr. Yeah, that’s the ticket!

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Gregory

14 May 2015

“Jon”, maybe people cleaning the railcar floors or shlepping bags should make minimum wage. It ain’t a profession.

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Todd Juvinall

14 May 2015

Jon you didn’t know AMTRAK is subsidized by the taxpayers (the ticket price would double if it was a true cost)? You did not know that AMTRAK is government? You did not know the government builds the infrastructure in America? What do you know?
I seem to remember that Warren Buffett owns some big railroads and they are doing pretty good. After all he is a CAPITALIST! I also remember CC Myers rebuilding the downed overpasses after a earthquake and he gained a fibe million dollar bonus for getting them done way under the CALTRANs estimates. I think the BAY Bridge was built by CALTRANS and was over budget by twice and now it is falling apart since the parts were cheaper from CHINA! Jeeze you are really uninformed “Jon”!
I suppose “jon” could be used as a example for the lack of education tossed at the taxpayers of America. SAD!

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fish

14 May 2015

Posted by: Jon | 14 May 2015 at 01:38 PM
So no answers then….. just more whining! You dance around issues almost as well as a Former Union Editor known in these parts “Jon”.

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Jon

14 May 2015

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/jeb-bush-iraq-31046422
A perfectly groomed Bush politician. Jeb, you’re the best.

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Jon

14 May 2015

great Gregory! The highest paid person on the train at $13/hr. Mitt would be proud.

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Jon

14 May 2015

Todd- ??? Of course Amtrak is subsidized by the taxpayer. Who was contesting that? It only received 50% of requested funds from the right wingers in Congress for maintenance, uprades and safety features. Not sure what the hell your point is?

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fish

14 May 2015

Posted by: Jon | 14 May 2015 at 02:51 PM
Gee wonder why AMTRAK didn’t put in their PTC speed sensors when the dems held all three branches and all that stimulus money was sloshing around Washington…….
Wonder, wonder, wonder???

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Walt

14 May 2015

Uh,, City boy “jon”.
“It was created by the Rail Passenger Service Act of 1970. Amtrak is structured as a corporation, but its board members are appointed by the president of the United States and virtually all its stock is owned by the federal government.”
http://www.allgov.com/departments/independent-agencies/national-railroad-passenger-corporation-amtrak?agencyid=7344
Sorry to burst your bubble, but GPS is INCORPORATED in the system.
Hell.. My own GPS when in HY. mode tells me the speed limit 300 yards before I hit the posted sign.
Name one thing the gov.runs, that dosn’t operate at a loss.
The FEDS couldn’t even run a whore house and make a profit. ( That would be the Mustang Ranch when they “took it over”.)

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Walt

14 May 2015

In other news, The jackboot thugs over at the other government run joint known as the IRS,
just got a good bi*ch slapping. ( Back to the gov. forfeiture scam)
http://dailycaller.com/2015/05/14/public-pressure-forces-irs-to-give-back-money-to-civil-forfeiture-victim-video/
Nope, the IRS treat to keep his mouth shut didn’t work.

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Jon

14 May 2015

Walt, who are you edupacating today? Note to Walt- the specific tool is PTC, not GPS. Do you propose take over Amtrak? Know of any private buyers to run and maintain the fastest growing, and one of the busiest transportation systems in the nation? Amtrak for much of the nation is like the Interstate system- a necessary and crucial system for our economy. Do you have any private buyers for the Interstate system?

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Walt

14 May 2015

Some hard numbers for “jon”.
Taxpayers lost $833 million over the last decade on the food and beverages supplied by Amtrak, which managed to spend $1.70 for every dollar that received in revenue.
“Over the last ten years, these losses have amounted to a staggering $833.8 million,” said Rep.John Mica, R-Fla., in a statement previewing a House hearing today. “It costs passengers $9.50 to buy a cheeseburger on Amtrak, but the cost to taxpayers is $16.15. Riders pay $2.00 for a Pepsi, but each of these sodas costs the U.S. Treasury $3.40.”
Now just who greased up the gov. contract price on that? In LIB economics,, buy high, sell low… Make it up in volume.. Right “jon”? It’s only OPM. ( other people’s money)
Why clean up their act, when they can hit up Congress for more money? And when things go sour, blame it on lack of funding.
Maybe Union Pacific should take it over. At least they know how to make a profit with a railroad.

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fish

14 May 2015

Posted by: Jon | 14 May 2015 at 03:59 PM
Your “identity” is leaking……..

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fish

14 May 2015

“It costs passengers $9.50 to buy a cheeseburger on Amtrak, but the cost to taxpayers is $16.15.
It’s cool Walt….there are plenty of Sierra Food, Whine, Art periodicals for the passengers to read for free on the west coast trains.

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Walt

14 May 2015

If it can’t hold it’s own, put a bullet in it. Send the scrap to Japan so they can send it back to us in the form of cheap products.

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Walt

14 May 2015

Speaking of trains,, Just wait for our own train “to and from” nowhere to go “on line”.
Any bets when the ” Brown streak” will start begging for money to stay operational?

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Jon

14 May 2015

Walt, yes Amtrak is subsidized. I wouldn’t trust the right winger’s numbers you quoted. Oh, and how much revenue and profit does the Interstate highway system generate for the country? Did Ike see it as a money maker for the country, or perhaps something bigger and more important? If you knew anything about population centers and how important Amtrak is to capitalism there, you’d be singing a different tune. But you know nothing about it. People in CA cities have to pay for services in Nevada and Modoc counties, and people like you have to chip in to national transport systems. Being an American.

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Russ

14 May 2015

This will not work out very well:
USA INTERNET CONTROL ENDING SHIFT TO GLOBAL GOVTS

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fish

14 May 2015

…..jeffy……chilifries…..mmmmmmm

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Walt

14 May 2015

Yup,, that’s the LIB spirit. Keep throwing good money after bad down a rat hole.
We pay our dues to the highway system, but that money doesn’t go to the repairs.
Now Ca. wants another fuel tax to pay for the crazy train. ( Bite me)
And you wonder why LIBS have been losing elections hand over fist. The people are sick and tired of LIB waste. (except here in Ca. of course.)

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Walt

14 May 2015

I DO find it amusing that not long ago you were bitching about those who RECEIVE subsidies.
“How dare farmers get them.” ( or any other corp. for that matter) But a FED owned corp. is different. How hypocrisy comes back to bite.

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Todd Juvinall

14 May 2015

Fish is on to something about “Jon”. He really is here to be a troll and no really debate his inane opinions.

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fish

14 May 2015

Posted by: Todd Juvinall | 14 May 2015 at 04:44 PM
It’s jeffy….he’s leaving too many tells!

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Walt

14 May 2015

Will the “real” “jon”,,, please stand up.. ( God forbid he/she/it isn’t wearing pants)
Jeff?
JoeK?
Joe S?
Steve?

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George Rebane

14 May 2015

Re Jon 416pm – While both the interstate highways and Amtrak are part of our transportation infrastructure that is govt run, the highways system was not built as a set of self-funding toll roads. But Amtrak was set up explicitly as a govt operated revenue neutral enterprise. There was a study years ago that concluded the interstate would cost less had it been built by private enterprise as a set of high quality toll roads. But the interstate was/is a part of our national security structure (along with harbors, canals, and navigable rivers) which comes under govt funding and control as called for in the Constitution.

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Gregory

14 May 2015

IIRC the loadbearing capacity of the Eisenhower’s interstate system is remarkably aligned with the weight of a 1950’s Army tank on its trailer and tractor rig.

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Bill Tozer

14 May 2015

More about our Interstate Defense Highway System.
http://www.amazon.com/LOVERS-Parking-novelty-funny-farmer/dp/B009UXR43E/ref=pd_rhf_dp_s_cp_1_94F8?ie=UTF8&refRID=079E0S75P2PHBKN46WQ2

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Bill Tozer

14 May 2015

Oops and ouch. Here is the link I meant to post. Note to self: proof read now and then.
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/interstate/interstatemyths.cfm

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Walt

14 May 2015

Looky what I found!
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/29065514/slideshow-the-price-of-marijuana-in-all-50-states
Now how in Hell is weed more expensive in Colorado than here? Our “exporters” must be making a killing.

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Walt

14 May 2015

Well now.. This is a well deserved swift kick to the nuts for unions.
The NLRB may not be the union’s lap dog for much longer.
Oh yes,, the LIBS will howl.
“NLRB Reform Act”
http://www.help.senate.gov/newsroom/press/release/?id=4381d817-0509-4e3a-95df-dbf712874704&groups=Chair

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Don Bessee

14 May 2015

Ya fish is on to him and that’s confirmed by the distinct smell of chili fry poop in the sand box! lol

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Jon

14 May 2015

George, I’ve lived in the NE Corridor footprint of Amtrak. Nothing else like it in the USA. Has anyone here tried driving I-95 from Boston to Washington on the Interstate System in the last 5 years? Those who do understand I would argue its comparable to the transportation systems called for in the Constitution. I am by no means arguing that same national necessity for a 20K population center in Montana to have Amtrak connections.

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Jon

14 May 2015

fish/Bessee = utterly clueless if you think I am a blogger from NC. But keep thinking that. 🙂

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Don Bessee

14 May 2015

If the bib fits and certain verbal mannerisms match….

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Walt

14 May 2015

So you moved here to pollute the place with more Liberalism?
Bloody great. Move away from where ever, and drag those values with ya’.

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Bill Tozer

15 May 2015

“Government does not make things, it breaks things”.
http://nypost.com/2015/05/14/obamacare-exchanges-are-melting-down-across-america/

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fish

15 May 2015

Posted by: Jon | 14 May 2015 at 09:57 PM
Uhhh….okay jef….I mean “Jon”. You’ll need to introduce us to “Rick” soon…should bring him over!

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fish

15 May 2015

Hey! Credit where credit is due…….when the “Right Wing” let’s the mask slip they rate mockery as well!
“For too long we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens: ‘as long as you obey the law we will leave you alone.’ “
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-05-15/uk-pm-david-cameron-proclaims-it’s-not-enough-follow-law-you-must-love-big-brother

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George Rebane

15 May 2015

Jon 955pm – It’s important not to confuse the need for passenger train service in the Boston-DC corridor with the claim that there is also a mandate for government to nationalize and operate passenger service in that corridor. For anyone who has ridden trains pre- and post-Amtrak, the difference in the service is literally shocking. Every operational and financial stat on Amtrak is out of kilter, just as those who understand govt operations and employees would expect it to be. The Baltimore crash is just the latest glaring example.
BTW, the Democrat blather about the crash is pure and unmitigated yet for them very necessary bullshit.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/amtrak-truth-and-politics-1431646437

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Jon

15 May 2015

George, I’ve had great experiences on Amtrak on the NE corridor, and in CA-Seattle as well. Of course the trains are way too slow, but they were on time. Unfortunately our govt. has not invested in infrastructure to allow trains to be half as fast as those in Japan. No one else is going to invest in that infrastructure on the key passenger routes- it is a govt. function, just like maintenance of I-80. As I said, certain routes are not critical to the movement of people in an efficient manner, and maybe should be eliminated. Other passenger routes certainly are critical to a modern nation such as ours. I just don’t see Buffett or Trump taking this on, do you?

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