Rebane's Ruminations
April 2015
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George Rebane

The lamestream has been extra silent about the Raisin Takings.  You do, of course, know about Horne v. USDA that started wending its way through SCOTUS last week?  This is where the government trucks pull onto your farm and demand that you fork over a percentage of your harvested crop for which they pay you zilch.  They have been playing these games on and off since the Depression – remember the grainy newsreels showing federal agents pouring milk from those galvanized metal milk cans into the gutters?

UncleSamGimme2Most people have never heard that our government has been doing such things ever since.  The explanation given is that keeping your product off the market will raise prices, and that will be for the common good.  There is something in the Constitution about that called the ‘takings clause’ which says that if the government has to take any of your property to serve a greater public need, then they have to pay you a fair price – “just compensation” – for it.  Zilch is not just compensation.

The Horne family has been making raisins in Fresno for decades, and the hoops the federal legal system has asked them to jump through is summarized in this piece, ‘The Incredible Raisin Heist’.  One of my favorites from the report was the feds telling the Hornes that they would be fairly compensated by selling their remaining raisins into a market that would then pay them a higher price when California’s raisin confiscations are figured in.  Oh yes, a runner up was ‘if you don’t want to have your raisins taken by the government, then you shouldn’t grow them in the first place’.  You gotta love the progressive road to tyranny via a nod to socialism along the way.

I bring this up because Horne will be a seminal property rights case of this century, bigger than Kelo v New London was in the last one.  But this one is being fought within a new understanding ever since people like Obama, Clinton, and Warren started telling their gruberized constituencies that all enterprise and success in the private sector was really due to and came from government.  Therefore the government could reach into your pockets or property and take what they damn well wanted, because it is really theirs to begin with.

Lately this message has been strongly argued in these pages by readers of various collectivist hues.  The scary part is that we as a nation are now so dumb and coddled that at least a third of Americans would be ready to march under the hammer and sickle in a heartbeat, given the promise that inequality would then be stamped out and they would get their ‘fair share’.

Notice what brings this to the fore are the ever more frequent statements in the lamestream by liberal politicians and progressive pundits pointing out the common basis for the state’s claim on your property and perspiration.  If what you own or accomplished in any way involved anything that was built, administered, or accessed through the collective, then your rights to those fruits are secondary to that of the collective, i.e. the state.  The state determines its cut and takes it off the top; what’s left over is yours, and if that remnant cannot sustain your enterprise, then it’s too bad – the ‘peepuhl’ come first.

The saddest thing is that our system was constituted to let us retain the means to oppose the rapid rise of an obvious and palpable tyranny.  It was not designed to handle such bit by piece insults to our liberties through bread and circuses.  Instead, it was designed to be managed by leaders of education, honor, and goodwill, who are vetted and elected by a suitably informed electorate – recall Jefferson’s, ‘A nation ignorant and free, that never was and never shall be.’  Today’s evaporation of our freedoms underlines the results of ignoring Jefferson’s wisdom – hence liberty, property, and security are on the wane.

Posted in , , ,

42 responses to “The Liberal Mind – ‘You didn’t create anything, the government did.’”

  1. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Not shown in the picture of Uncle Sam is his other hand holding a revolver behind his back. It’s government’s job to build roads and build infrastructure so we can get to work, have a place to go to work, and create an environment where capitalism flourishes untethered. Uncle Sam: shut up and do your job. It’s what you are paid to do, so do it and then get the hell out of the way.
    “A patriots first duty is the protect his country from his government.” Teddy Roosevelt posted that quote on his My Space page many moons ago. 🙂

    Like

  2. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Why can’t we all just get along?
    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_didn%27t_build_that
    Perhaps Lizzy Borden Warren said the progressive point of view best:
    “I hear all this, you know, ‘Well, this is class warfare, this is whatever.’ No. There is nobody in this country who got rich on his own — nobody. You built a factory out there? Good for you. But I want to be clear. You moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for. You hired workers the rest of us paid to educate. You were safe in your factory because of police-forces and fire-forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn’t have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory — and hire someone to protect against this — because of the work the rest of us did. Now look, you built a factory and it turned into something terrific, or a great idea. God bless — keep a big hunk of it. But part of the underlying social contract is, you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along.”
    Oh, Lizzy, wrong. We do indeed have to worry to worry that “marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory-“. That is why we hire lawyers and accountants to keep you at bay. Sure, you don’t seize everything, just always take the all the cream off the top, half the milk jug, and leave us with the watered down skim milk. Thank you kindly for the water, we owe ya one.
    Some have a different point of view, like that evil person who murdered factory workers’ wives and said 47% are free loaders. He is a berry berry bad man.
    “To say that Steve Jobs didn’t build Apple, that Henry Ford didn’t build Ford Motors, that Papa John didn’t build Papa John Pizza … To say something like that, it’s not just foolishness. It’s insulting to every entrepreneur, every innovator in America.”
    —Mitt Romney
    Great Divide? I don’t see no stinkin’ divide.

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  3. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Lest I forget, thankyou, thankyou, thankyou Mr. Obama for “allowing us to thrive”.
    “There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me—because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t—look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own… If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business—you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen.”
    Tanks Mr. President, tanks a rock.

    Like

  4. fish Avatar
    fish

    Oh, Lizzy, wrong. We do indeed have to worry to worry that “marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory-“. That is why we hire lawyers and accountants to keep you at bay. Sure, you don’t seize everything, just always take the all the cream off the top, half the milk jug, and leave us with the watered down skim milk. Thank you kindly for the water, we owe ya one.
    Remember….when you win government wins with you…..when you lose you lose alone.
    ….unless you happen to be a very well connected financial institution who just happens to give millions to politicians.

    Like

  5. Walt Avatar

    Now come on Bill!!!,,, It’s bad enough that my Cousin Lizzy Borden is still being accused of a crime she was acquitted of.( but they had it coming.) Now ya’ go and add insult to injury by throwing Lie,awatha
    into the mix. (Damn,, the family just can’t get a break these days.)
    Dizzy Izzy the 2ND ( The local one took the title first) has her own ax to grind.
    On the “takings” front here, thanks to our own Izzy,, people have been screwed out of use of their own property, with the environmental regs she and her gang passed. they didn’t “take” it, but made it worthless non the less.(without compensation)
    Where a rotted tree stump used to be, is now a protected vernal pool, forever not to be filled in or disturbed. Or somehow you own “special dirt”.( NOT JOKING!) Nope,, can’t do shit with that either. Then of course the 30% grade rule. In this land of hills, nope,, you can’t build that there.

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  6. George Boardman Avatar

    The market order at the heart of this case has been on the books since 1937. We’ve had five Republican presidents since then who took no action to remove it, and apparently no raisin farmers have challenged the market order before Horne.
    I think we know why. A market order that was originally intended to prop up falling prices is now used to keep raisin prices artificially high. That’s why 1,600 raisin growers and the world’s largest processor of raisins, Sun-Maid Growers, are backing the government in this case.
    I’m all for getting farmers off welfare, but it’s so difficult to do. They have a powerful lobby and many allies among the so-called free market conservatives in Congress.

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  7. George Boardman Avatar

    Correction: Make that six Republican presidents. How could I forget Gerald Ford?

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  8. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    “We’ve had five Republican presidents since then who took no action to remove it, and apparently no raisin farmers have challenged the market order before Horne.”
    Geeze, George B, you do realize Presidents are not kings, don’t you? Democrats tend to fight for even bad New Deal programs (the fix for the Fanny Mae monopoly was to create another one, Freddie Mac, for the illusion of competition), and Republicans tend not to pick fights that they probably can’t win. So we get quid pro quos from both sides that lead to the guvmint just getting bigger.
    Government programs tend towards gaining power, not shedding it.

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  9. Walt Avatar

    “quid pro quo” has now become “quid pro dough”

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  10. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    It was just a few years ago the Congress stopped the tax from the Spanish American War on the telephones of Americans. These things have a life of their own. Usually no one pays attention until some poor dumb American taxpayer say HALT!

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  11. fish Avatar
    fish

    How could I forget Gerald Ford?
    How could you not?

    Like

  12. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Oh Walt, excuse my indiscretion. I always liked Cousin Lizzy. Especially that childhood favorite “with a whack whack here and a whack whack there, here a whack, there a whack, everywhere a whack whack, Ole Lizzy Borden had a farm, EEeee-Eye-Eeee-Eye-Ooooooh!”
    This raisin thing is important if you pardon all the Rasin’ Hell puns and even the justices laughing. Here is what I have gathered so far (pun maybe intended). CA grows 99% of the nation’s raisins, 40% of the entire global crop. So, to keep the market price high, the G-Men go up to the grape wrinkler’s farm has haul off half is crop and say “We are from the government and we are here to help you.” And the farmer gets not one penny, not even a measly tip. Half his income for the year gone into thin air.
    So, what does helpful Great Fathers in Washington do with the raisins? Dump them in the Potomic or mix ’em up with algae ethanol to power aircraft carriers?? No, They dump the soft moist plump raisins overseas to places like Siam, or Formosa or the Canary Islands. Maybe Finland, too. Our Great Wise Overlords pocket the money and the raisin farmer does not even show a smidge of appreciation. What a brat! In fact, he is muttering something about seizure without compensation and suing his Benevolent Overseers. There is always one olf out there who rocks the boat. Cane him in public along with the usual suspects down at the old town square. chop, chop, get busy.

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  13. Walt Avatar

    Back in the day, those confiscated raisins wound up in C-rats for the military. At least they went for a good cause. been chowing down on some of those MRE’s just for kicks. ( Not bad,, not bad at all.) And not a box of raisins or even vacuum packed to be found.
    Another one of the government’s dirty tricks (going from memory here,, so if I’m off base a little please DO correct me.) is the tax(?) on wheat ( or is it corn?) for personal use of the farmer.

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  14. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    I was always a supporter of “just compensation” for any government action that took from the individual etal and gave it to the greater “good”. Like zoning laws that require a landowner to give over rights and property for a permit to run a business or farm etc. Try and develop a project in California (almost anywhere) and look at all the “notes” on the maps, the Mitigations and “areas of non development to name a few. But, unless there are clear cut rulings on these things by the SCOTUS, the bureaucrats will exploit any wiggle room either real or perceived. The EPA and Army Corp bureaucrats went right to work to find all the loopholes a few years ago on “navigable waters” wholly within the borders of states. They did their job and one must still be on their knees to get a 404 permit. The agencies even got so creative I thought the SCOTUS would review them. But nope. So a ditch on you property that comes from a 12″ culvert is still somehow “waters of the USA”!

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  15. George Rebane Avatar

    Raisins are pretty much fungible. So the govt confiscating your raisins and then selling them elsewhere does NOT increase demand, and therefore the price, for raisins in the US.

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  16. D Avatar

    Here’s the definitive folk song about Lizzie Bordon from the Chad Mitchell Trio
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wlO-J0v9ZY
    Yesterday in old Fall River
    Mr. Andrew Borden died
    And he got his daughter, Lizzie
    On a charge of homicide
    Some folks say she didn’t do it
    And others say of course she did
    But they all agree, Miss Lizzie B
    Was a problem kinda kid
    ‘Cause you can’t chop your
    Papa up in Massachausetts
    Not even if it’s planned
    As a surprise (a surprise)
    No, you can’t chop your
    Papa up in Massachausetts
    You know how neighbors love to criticize
    Well, she got him on the sofa
    Where he’d gone to take a snooze
    And I hope he went to Heaven
    ‘Cause he wasn’t wearing shoes
    Lizzie kinda rearranged him
    With a hatchet so they say
    Then she got her mother
    In that same old fashioned way
    But you can’t chop your
    Mama up in Massachausettes
    Not even if you’re tired of
    Her cuisine (her cuisine)
    No can’t chop your mama up in Massachausetts
    You know it’s almost sure to cause a scene
    Well, they really kept her
    Hopping on that busy afternoon
    With both down and upstairs chopping
    While she hummed a ragtime tune
    They really made her hustle
    And when all was said and done
    She’d removed her mother’s bustle
    When she wasn’t wearing one
    Now can’t chop your
    Mama up in Massachusetts
    And then blame all the damage
    On the mice (on the mice)
    No, you can’t chop your
    Mama up in Massachausetts
    That sort of thing just isn’t very nice
    Now it wasn’t done for pleasure
    And it wasn’t done for spite
    And it wasn’t done because
    The lady wasn’t very bright
    She’d always done the slightest thing
    That mom and papa bid
    They said, Lizzie, cut it out
    So that’s exactly what she did
    But you can’t chop your
    Papa up in Massachausetts
    And then get dressed
    And go out for a walk
    No, you can’t chop your
    Papa up in Massachausetts
    Massachausetts is a far cry
    From New York
    You can’t chop your
    Papa up in Massachausetts
    Shut the door and lock and latch it
    Here comes Lizzie with a brand new hatchet
    You can’t chop your
    Papa up in Massachausetts
    Such a snob I’ve heard it said
    She met her pa and cut him dead
    You can’t chop your
    Papa up in Massachausetts
    Jump like a fish
    Jump like a porpoise
    All join hands and habeas corpus
    You can’t chop your
    Papa up in Massachausetts
    Massachausetts is a far cry
    From New York

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  17. Walt Avatar

    Just wait for the “poems” to come out for Izzy “lies through teeth” Warren.
    you know,, how she lied about being Indian, used that lie to get where she is today.
    “Ma’ ma’ said I got high cheekbones” yet even the Cherokee nation won’t claim her.
    Oh!! Wait!! They already have!
    Here ya’ go “D”,, take your pick.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lu61aU4N8mM
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ShDvf4QWrQ
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-NuxYWv0ds

    Like

  18. Russ Steele Avatar

    Hope for the future! And not unnoticed, they are from “Nathan Hale High”…
    Check it out:
    280 high schoolers – the entire junior class of Nathan Hale High School in Seattle, Washington – have effectively told President Obama and his band of progressive buffoons that they can take their Common Core and shove it.
    When state testing began on Tuesday, not a single junior showed up on campus to participate, as the entire student body had collectively decided to exercise their legal right to opt out of the ‘Smarter Balanced’ exams.
    “They didn’t skip school all day,” commented district spokeswoman Stacy Howard, according to the Seattle Times. “They just didn’t show up during the testing period.”
    The Nathan Hale students weren’t the only ones to deal this massive blow to the liberal establishment, either. According to early district estimates, about half of the juniors at three other Seattle high schools have also opted out of the Smarter Balanced testing.
    “Students voted with their own feet,” remarked Doug Edelstein, a history teacher at Nathan Hale and opponent of the Common Core testing. “They felt like they knew the facts, and made their own decisions.”
    Give the junior class at Seattle’s Nathan Hale High two thumbs up for taking a stand against Common Core by sharing this report!
    Read more at http://patriotupdate.com/2015/04/280-high-school-students-just-told-obama-to-shove-it-in-an-epic-way/

    Like

  19. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Wonder if Lizzy’ B’s parents confiscated her box of raisins and ate them all up without replacing them in due time. If so, they had it coming as Walt said. So, is Lizzy W a raisin hating Injun or just a raisin look alike squaw? I would not touch her with Sitting Bull’s stolen petrified member.
    Perhaps off topic but going with the current flow, one has to wonder how much bigger can government get (for our common good, of course). Although Goverment’s current mantra is “Whatz mine is mine and whatz yours is mine”, I do believe one humble obscure raisin farmer can turn the tide against Big Bro and its insatiable appetite for more power, more control, and more persons, places, and things, aka, nouns. Let’s look under the hood and find out what all this common good stuff is about, shall we?
    http://patriotpost.us/opinion/34699
    Ok, I will leave Senator Buckskin Redskin and venture on to Senator Headbanger Clinton.
    https://www.facebook.com/PatriotPost/photos/pb.51560645913.-2207520000.1430091543./10152958397750914/?type=3&theater
    Kind of all sounds the same to me. I stand with the wrinkled plump raisin farmer. You can take Betty or Sue, ain’t much difference between the two. Betty and Sue are both shameless opportunists.

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  20. Walt Avatar

    It’s about damned time ol’ ‘W’ speaks his mind about the LIB mind known as “O”.
    And Bush rips “O” a new one.
    http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-04-27/george-w-bush-bashes-obama-on-middle-east

    Like

  21. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Holy Sun Maid Raisins! Now they are confiscating Wal-Marts. Five stores closed for 6 months across a wide area with no advanced notice for “plumbing problems”. 2,200 laid off with no warning. I smell a sewer rat.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n0rddZkjGwA

    Like

  22. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Hmmm, when they shut something down, they do it right. Just like closing the National Monuments during the government shutdown.
    http://allnewspipeline.com/UN_Vehicles_On_Truck_Headed_Towards_Texas.php
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=A1UT9y94Es8
    Well at least we are told that the plumbing problems in the 5 Walmarts in various states will be all fixed in 6 months, probably on the exact same day.. Seems a bit long for just repairing plumbing problems, but what does a dummie like me know except that it all runs downhill.

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  23. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    We are from the UN and we are here to help. Meanwhile, tanks and 19 black helicopters flying overhead spotted at Walmart closed for plumbing repairs in Texas along with urban assault vehicles. Boy, those plumbing issues are worse than I thought.
    http://allnewspipeline.com/UN_Vehicles_On_Truck_Headed_Towards_Texas.php
    Must be for the common good, ya think?

    Like

  24. fish Avatar
    fish

    Truly, if I had the choice, I’d vote for the US to become a socialist utopia, including the nationalization of all human goods that should be part of the commons, such as water, power, most infrastructure (like highways), post-office, education, police and fire departments, etc, and … human health. I’d be happy to have the government take over all manufacture of pharmaceuticals.
    Truly a man happy being thirsty, hungry, well shaken (bad roads dontcha know), sans correspondence (of course this one though is really being taken over by time), police and fire…might have to live with these, and finally sick and more probably quickly dead.
    Your neighbor should probably consider moving to one of those “peoples republics” that socialists swoon over.

    Like

  25. Walt Avatar

    Fish.. He can go to a nice tropical Socialist paradise, not that far away.. It’s called Cuba.

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  26. Walt Avatar

    Bill.. I do believe it’s what’s clled the “Wonder bread” retaliation.
    The Union goons tried to weasel in to force unionization. Wal-Mart (in a way) said
    “we will close the place down first” before allowing union greed to take hold.

    Like

  27. George Rebane Avatar

    fish 748am – Without attribution we have no idea who said it, where and when; in short, no way to evaluate it and decide whether it deserves response. It just appears as an empty statement from an anonymous and benighted mind.

    Like

  28. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: George Rebane | 27 April 2015 at 08:43 AM
    I left it vague deliberately…..I suspect it is a poster who posts here regularly under a pseudonym. If they want to weigh in and defend the statement it should be a fun couple of days.
    I mentioned because it was, in my opinion, so incorrect given what we know about both government services and socialism in general.
    My first belly laugh of the week!

    Like

  29. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: Walt | 27 April 2015 at 08:33 AM
    Actually Walt my first thought when confronted by statements such as these is North Korea….much like leftys love to play the Somalia card when we talk about just a bit less government “help”.

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  30. George Rebane Avatar

    fish 901am – Control and ownership of all infrastructure and means of production of all goods necessary for survival, then why stop with pharmaceuticals and not proceed to food and fiber, and … ? As maintained here for years, socialism is a slippery slope that ratchets up state ownership.
    Exceptions like Maggie’s privatization are only tried when there are examples of better performing economies that beckon and show what is possible with private ownership. The Left’s objective of A21 globalization leaves little room for that.

    Like

  31. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    This quote from Michael Goodwin (April 25, 2015) was referring to the collapse of Hillary Quid Pro Quo Clinton and her sinking credibility as a direct result of her answers to fair questions. However, it is a most fitting quote when applied to the slippery slope referenced by Dr. Rebane’s 09:41am comment.
    A passage from Ernest  Hemingway fits the moment. In “The Sun Also  Rises,” one character asks,  “How did you go bankrupt?” and another responds: “Two ways. Gradually, then suddenly.”

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  32. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    mr. Walt @8:40am. Yes, Walt, the LA Walt-mart closed where the Goons were threading, but that does not explain the other 4 stores closing its doors simultaneously. Nor does it explain the Houston local news reports of black helicopters hovering over the Wal-Mart at night and the tank that is parked behind the Wal-Mart with the assault vehicles and different Fed enforcements vehicles showing up….with no plumbing truck in sight. A mystery.
    Ok, for now, just blame it as Walt-mart playing the game by same kind of rules the goons like to play by.. Hardball. Heads I win, tails you lose. Or maybe there are indeed plumbing problems that will take as long to fix as to build a new Mega Superstore. Ok, that is all we have to go on. But, me thinks maybe the Homeland Crackdown Security forces just might be using a shuttered Wal-mart to practice……urban warfare? Maybe they are setting up Red Cross shelters there in prep for the next big Global Warming horrific weather event. Maybe the military is training soldiers to be plumbers and cut out outside contractors to save a buck.
    The only thing I know for certain is it was the one armed man on the grassy knoll that shot JR before framing Cousin Lizzy. 🙂

    Like

  33. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    My, my. Sometimes nothing seems to go right. If a first you don’t succeed, try try again.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/21/nikko-jenkins-666-999_n_7105686.html?cps=gravity_2425_-848576840939821851
    I did not build his current housing. Somebody else did. I do wonder how much our local clinks, Big Houses, slammers, lockups, pokies, and joints are cutting back on their water usuage during this time of drought. I did not build the Auburn Dam or the Folsom Dam either so I can’t claim it. Because I did not build the Auburn Dam, I will refuse to use any of their facilities nor leave nary a speck of trash in the parking lot or the boat launch area as a matter of principle. Neither will I use any water emitting from Folsom Lake. I feel that would be best and a selfless sacrifice for the common good.

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  34. Walt Avatar

    Bill. You can still “do your part”. Pee off the Forest Hill bridge to help fill Folsom Lake. The white water rafters will thank you.

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  35. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Walt, I did that once. That updraft from the bridge prevented me from hitting my target, a pair of nature lovers below frolicking about half naked. No, peeing in that kind of wind does not achieve its intended purpose. Note to self: next time wear a raincoat. Still, I plan to forge ahead to do my part. It’s for the future generations and that is why people such as I live far above the heavily traveled and littered altruistic plane. It’s for the liitle ones.

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  36. Don Bessee Avatar
    Don Bessee

    It looks like Ben Emory got his wish, Bernie Sanders is running for Prez waiving the socialist banner. Have to wonder if his logo will have red back ground with gold star with hammer and sickle or a clenched fist on a red back ground? LOL

    Like

  37. Walt Avatar

    I can see it now. Bernie will run on asset confiscation of “the rich”. and fork it over to the inner city do nothings. Yup, that will score points with the Democrat plantation dwellers.

    Like

  38. Joe Koyote Avatar
    Joe Koyote

    I’m sure some of it will also go to rural do-nothings because most rural areas pay far less in taxes then they get in benefits from the state and the feds.

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  39. Walt Avatar

    Really Wile E.? And just who would that be? Rural people are mostly Conservative, and have no use for Socialists. But our ridge rats are the exception.
    Remember? Nevada Co. is “red” on the map. ( and not Commie red)
    But DO define “rural do nothings”. ( this should be good)

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  40. Walt Avatar

    BTW Wile E.,,, we already have a Socialist as Prez. That sure worked out swell. ( at least for him.)

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  41. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: Joe Koyote | 28 April 2015 at 05:48 PM
    Sounds like the urban areas need more effective representation.

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  42. Walt Avatar

    Secret science… The LIB mind in action…
    http://dailycaller.com/2015/04/29/senators-target-epas-use-of-secret-science-to-justify-regs/
    OK Ben and the boys,, justify it.

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