144 responses to “Sandbox – 23apr15”

1. 

   George Rebane

   25 April 2015

   Walt 1141am – Wasn’t asking you to the sums, original research, and all that. Such a number totaling natural geologic CO2 emissions is no doubt known, it just needs digging up. And if it isn’t known, then you can tot up the contributors and publish an original paper giving the econuts something to chew on. That’ll put a feather in your cap, er, hard hat 😉
   re RussS 100pm – And such reports should make it clear to even the most dedicated progressives that man does not come close to knowing the dimensions and magnitudes of earth’s CO2 cycle, but don’t hold your CO2-ladened breath.

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2. 

   Gregory

   25 April 2015

   “Tonight the sitting Grass Valley City Council members voted 3-1 to appoint Ben Aguilar to fill the vacant seat. I thank the Council for their consideration and congratulate Ben on his appointment. I wish him all the best as he moves forward and look forward to seeing the work he does on Council.
   For all who supported me during this journey–THANK YOU! I plan to keep working for our community and hope you will all join me in doing so AND that you will come along with us in 2016 as I plan to run again for a seat on the Grass Valley City Council.” -Jerri Glover in February.
   Scoopy now reports she is moving back to Texas.

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3. 

   George Rebane

   25 April 2015

   Gregory 238pm – I wish her the joy of greener pastures.

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4. 

   Todd Juvinall

   25 April 2015

   Two Joes, hey, no fracking in Nepal. Please explain.

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5. 

   Todd Juvinall

   25 April 2015

   I met Glover at the Empire Toastmasters a week ago Friday. No hint from her there she was leaving. She seemed very nice.
   Paul Aguilar is on the County PC.
   I went through school with Larry Aguilar and even intro’d him to his wife. My Dad and King and and Connie Aguilar were best friends. King and Connie are great people as are the rest of the family members.

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6. 

   Michael R. Kesti

   25 April 2015

   Todd Juvinall 25Apr15 03:01 PM
   Can you actually be that stupid?

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7. 

   Greg Goodknight

   25 April 2015

   mrk 401, can you really be that obtuse?

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8. 

   Todd Juvinall

   25 April 2015

   Kesti, what are you talking about?

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9. 

   George Rebane

   25 April 2015

   For the confused reader – today’s Nepal earthquake was just the latest seismic event of the Indian tectonic plate migrating north ramming against the Asian plate. This slow motion push has given rise to the Himalayas over the eons, and continues to raise the height of that mountain range. I will not be surprised to now see reports of a significant increase in the heights of mountains like Everest and K-2.
   The smaller fracking EQs are undoubtedly caused by settling of the fracked strata, and has nothing to do with earthquakes emanating from fault lines related to tectonic plate movements.
   No one knows yet if fracking done over naturally occurring tectonic faults would set off a big tectonic EQ triggered by a smaller fracking EQ. The causal sequence is plausible but yet unproven.

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10. 

    Walt

    25 April 2015

    There are signs right here near PV of natural displacement. Half way up the hill to GV
    hy20 has made slight signs of compression uplift. I noticed it some 10 years ago.
    Caltrans had to come in more than once to grind it down.
    If the road dept. hadn’t done what they did, the totle rise may have been well over a foot by today. The gutter pan has been untouched, and shows the deformation.
    This uplift is in what is called “the cut” and not infill which is more subject to change over time. ( Like a dip developing where a culvert crosses due to extra compaction from traffic)
    Yes, the small faults around here still creep, and slip.. That’s a good thing. That’s the stress releaver.

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11. 

    Ben Emery

    26 April 2015

    George,
    I understood you correctly, the link I gave has or had all the information on it. It has side notes with related links. Yes, I did read the study in 2010. Almost all my links are pulled from folders if they are older than 6 months to a year.
    Mickey,
    If you would actually go view the study/ paper that is not what they are saying at all. They are saying with existing technology we have the ability of shifting to all renewables by 2030. If I remember correctly there are some caveats in it about energy use as well. The point is Todd J. made the claim nobody on the left gives any examples, so I did to prove him wrong once again. I always give examples and solutions. Just because the fab five doesn’t like them doesn’t mean they weren’t given.

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12. 

    fish

    26 April 2015

    Almost all my links are pulled from folders if they are older than 6 months to a year.
    Why would you do that?

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13. 

    Todd Juvinall

    26 April 2015

    Yes Ben Emery, why?

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14. 

    Russ Steele

    26 April 2015

    BBC: Nepal quake ‘followed historic pattern’
    Nepal’s devastating magnitude-7.8 earthquake on Saturday was primed over 80 years ago by its last massive earthquake in 1934, which razed around a quarter of Kathmandu to the ground and killed over 17,000 people.
    This latest quake follows the same pattern as a duo of big tremors that occurred over 700 years ago, and results from a domino effect of strain transferring along the fault, geologists say.
    The researchers discovered the likely existence of this doublet effect only in recent weeks, during field work in the region.
    Saturday’s quake, which struck an area in central Nepal, between the capital Kathmandu and the city of Pokhara, has had a far-reaching impact.
    Early reports indicate that nearly 2,000 people have lost their lives, with victims in Bangladesh, India, Tibet, and on Mount Everest, where avalanches were triggered.
    Death tolls and casualty figures are likely to rise over the coming days, and the risk of landslides on slopes made unstable by the quake mean that the danger is far from passed.
    http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-32472310

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15. 

    George Rebane

    26 April 2015

    RussS 822am – Notice that your pick up of the BBC report did not identify the tectonic plate nature of the EQ and relate it to the big international debate (also in these comment streams) on whether fracking causes dangerous EQs – see my 606pm. Such perspectives by the lamestream would contribute greatly to the public’s understanding of how such EQs differ and give rise to a more reasoned dialogue. Too much to expect, especially from the left-leaning Beeb since it proudly editorializes its news reporting.

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16. 

    Walt

    26 April 2015

    Russ. Have you found any info on the surmised uplift? I haven’t found any tech. data yet.
    ( this is one of the subduction zones)

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17. 

    George Rebane

    26 April 2015

    Re Himalayas rising – “The Himalayas are still rising by more than 1 cm per year as India continues to move northwards into Asia, which explains the occurrence of shallow focus earthquakes in the region today. However the forces of weathering and erosion are lowering the Himalayas at about the same rate. The Himalayas and Tibetan plateau trend east-west and extend for 2,900 km, reaching the maximum elevation of 8,848 metres (Mount Everest).”
    This interpretation seems to be in error. The mountains are made of some pretty stuff (granite) that does not weather at 1 cm/yr. However, this EQ probably raised the mountains in the order of a foot (or 25 cm). We await the official word.

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18. 

    Todd Juvinall

    26 April 2015

    Careful, Kesti will call you stupid GeorgeR for mentioning fracking and Nepal. LOL!

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19. 

    Michael R. Kesti

    26 April 2015

    Todd Juvinall 26Apr15 11:24 AM
    Not at all, Todd. George mentioned neither fracking nor Nepal in his comment of 26Apr15 10:15 AM nor has he indicated that anybody might think earthquakes are caused only by fracking.
    It could be that you were not referring to George’s 10:15 comment but because you didn’t provide reference to which comment you were responding one can infer reference only from posting sequence.
    It could also be that you didn’t intend to indicate in your comment of 25Apr15 03:01 PM that anybody might think that only fracking causes earthquakes. If this is the case will you please explain your intent? Thanks in advance.

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20. 

    Walt

    26 April 2015

    But FRACKING creates “burning water”. ( the other false accusation)
    But there is a “burning water” problem down in Linda! ( but NO FRACKING)

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21. 

    Don Bessee

    26 April 2015

    Well lets kick the hornets nest on the fine Sunday. THE GIG IS UP FOR THE GLOBAL WARMING CULT. The disparity between the (RSS) Remote Sensing System aka satellites seeing no warming and the manual NOAA reports of the hottest years ever has caused even the high priests of the cult to admit there is a problem. With the pattern of manual manipulation of ground sensors reported temps these so called ‘adjustments’ have been used to manipulate the historical records and inflate current temps. According to the UK’s Telegraph the Global Warming Policy Foundation has called in a mixed team of experts to fully explore the pattern of disparities between the automated monitors and the historical data that was proven to have been manipulated in climategate. Don’t know if its too late for the coal states but this could stop the madness of wealth redistribution in the guise of fighting global warming.

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22. 

    George Rebane

    26 April 2015

    DonB 211pm – Good pick up, but sadly that observation (RussS can probably cite the report) has already been ignored by the True Believers because 1) they simply refuse to acknowledge it, or 2) they attribute it to the work of the Great Corporatist Devil as an attempt to deny their devoutly embraced epiphany. Such reports only confirm our understanding of the science, and count not smidgeon to deter them on the road to A21.

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23. 

    Todd Juvinall

    26 April 2015

    Kesti, please don’t take yourself so seriously. You could hurt yourself. In a nutshell the left has been blaming every little shake in the ground on fracking and I made my snarky comment about Nepal based on them. You need to loosen your undies.

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24. 

    Ben Emery

    27 April 2015

    Why would I do that?
    Spending more than 5 minutes trying to give links, data, and research to you guys is a waste of time since you will only talk about what I wrote instead of what I shared. Spending 20 or more minutes typing out a thoughtful detailed comment has proven to be futile on the blogosphere no matter which one a person finds themselves on.
    Some jacka$$ will put in quotations one sentence of a 6 paragraph comment and then the debate becomes about language of the one sentence then the content of the issue.
    Having to answer this question proves that once again. I have given examples and applicable statistics but mum is the word on that.
    I will say this, we(which means all of us older than 30 years old) are leaving the next generations a absolutely screwed up planet to try and survive on. We only have one home that has finite resources and a very small window of where our environment has to be balanced to sustain human life. We have been in the red zone on that balance for a couple decades, which is the result of over a century worth of industrialization. We have used up the resources a pace much faster than they can be replenished therefore using the resources of future generations so we could live a high impact lifestyle that is coming to a head after about 60 years.

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25. 

    Todd Juvinall

    27 April 2015

    If ever there was a person who scares the hell out of the young people it is you Ben Emery. My goodness, the planet has been here a long time and will be here long after your apocalyptic body is gone. I feel bad for the young people of earth since you libs are telling them the “end is near” at ever moment.

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26. 

    fish

    27 April 2015

    Posted by: Ben Emery | 27 April 2015 at 09:26 AM
    But Ben….eliminating linked sources makes it look like you’re hiding something or embarrassed about data that turn out to be “questionable”. Like temperature data most recently.
    I’ve checked some of your links…..I really enjoyed a couple of the ones you posted claiming that the Iroquois or some other indian tribe were really the intellectual force behind the US Constitution but it turned out that they were links to some politician or organization essentially making the exact claim…sometimes in identical language…without evidence that you did.
    Those should have been interesting links…..turns out they weren’t.

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27. 

    George Rebane

    27 April 2015

    BenE 926am – Your heartfelt and sincere comment responds to whom? Whose question do you refuse to answer? Your omitting attribution makes this a private comment thread to all but those willing to wade through all the previous threads in this comment stream.
    (Taxonomical note: Each original post on a blog is, hopefully, followed by a comment stream which may then turn out to contain multiple topic-specific comment threads that are interwoven by the discussants into the developing comment stream. Starting all responsive comments with an attribution tuple of who/when makes following individual threads possible without having to dig through irrelevant threads.)

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28. 

    Walt

    27 April 2015

    But Ben!!! Haven’t you seen the admission of the scamitists where they actually say ” WE “F”ed up”..? I posted that the other night, and our AGW gang fell off the face of the page, and not heard from again until now.( your the only one to come out of the bunker so far)
    This might drive you back in!.
    http://dailycaller.com/2015/04/27/scientists-to-investigate-govt-climate-data-tampering/

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29. 

    Ben Emery

    27 April 2015

    Fish,
    I cannot help that the study findings are behind paywalls. That is the market doing what it does best, squeezing every penny out of people it can.
    If you want to really see the information pay the cost of viewing the findings. In 2010 either our campaign paid the fees for access or the findings were public at that time. I would have to go look through our treasury/ spending reports to find out which it was. I don’t feel it is worthwhile, so either go pay the market price for the information or don’t. It is up to you.

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30. 

    Ben Emery

    27 April 2015

    George,
    It was to Fish and Todd. Also I sent you a FB message.

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31. 

    Walt

    27 April 2015

    It’s a good thing I wear boots. The AGW crap is sure getting deep.
    http://dailycaller.com/2015/04/27/prof-claims-global-warming-caused-nepals-earthquakes/
    How bout THOSE “falling apples” Ben?

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32. 

    George Rebane

    27 April 2015

    BenE 1012am – Thanks Ben. Communicating with me through FB is not a reliable method. Besides my offline activities, RR, emails, texts, … keep the day pretty much filled. I don’t yet do social media like FB and Tweets.

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33. 

    Ben Emery

    27 April 2015

    Walt,
    I just read the daily caller piece. If true it needs to be brought into the open for sure. I trust government agencies as much as I trust the Goldman Sach’s and Monsanto’s of the world, probably since the two are aligned like no other time in US history. Unless we have strict independent watchdog over both government and industry we the peons are screwed. Unfortunately both the Democratic and Republican Party’s have made it virtually impossible to challenge their power over the reins of our government so trying to hold governments or industry accountable is very difficult since the Democratic and Republican Party’s control much of the judicial branch and it is up to the Democratic and Republican Party’s to hold industry accountable when it comes to law enforcement.
    We are living in the tyranny of duopoly system where party self preservation trumps any form of democracy(people power).

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34. 

    Ben Emery

    27 April 2015

    Walt,
    I am taking more than 5 minute on this post to hopefully get a real conversation started instead of the usual crap.
    It doesn’t take a huge scientific mind to see how we are destroying our ecosystem needed to sustain human life on earth at today’s standards. We are
    – entering into the 6th mass extinction
    http://newscenter.berkeley.edu/2011/03/02/has-the-sixth-mass-extinction-already-arrived/
    – Coral reefs are dying off
    http://www.marinebiology.org/coralbleaching.htm
    – Fish populations are collapsing from over fishing and environmental damage or shifts
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/02/AR2006110200913.html
    – Polar Ice Melt
    http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/PolarIce/polar_ice2.php
    – ect….
    Yes change is the one constant on earth but with humans being able to measure the changes has never been done before since human existence is a blink of an eye compared to eh age of the earth. Then the ability to measure the change is a blink of an eye in the history of human existence.
    Whether you want to believe it or not everything on this very small planet feeds off each other and we(humans), especially those in developed nations, are consuming much more and therefore producing waste at levels that cannot be used by our co-inhabitants of the planet from the smallest of microbes to blue whales to bees to redwood forests to unusable wastes such as nuclear, highly toxic waste, or plastics. We just have to look past our own noses to see it is happening.
    Something has to change and unfortunately I get the feeling what is going to change is the elimination of much of the human population due to changing environment that only those can adapt will survive, ring a bell?

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35. 

    Bill Tozer

    27 April 2015

    Well Ben, when life gives you lemons, made lemonade. Don’t worry, be happy. Remember it takes more muscles to frown than to smile. Come on, take your fingers and turn those sourpuss lips into a nice big happy face. There, I knew you could.
    Besides, by taxing carbon consumption, those little pot bellied Pacific Islanders won’t need their wading pool flotation devises like the inflatable Barney the Purpule Dinasaur because we are turning the tide on rising sea levels. All due to carbon taxes and jet setting to Globale Climate Change Confabs held only in the best of places. Rejoice. We are saving the world on coconut tree at a time. The pen is mightier than the sword. We are saving the planet for future generations just by talking about it and reusing soggy paper bags. The sun is indeed shining.

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36. 

    Walt

    27 April 2015

    So, Ben,, we need to revert back to nomadic life, and live in caves. ( natural housing)
    Then the fury critters will really have issues. (back to wearing their skins to keep OURS warm.) UUmmmm,, What heat source did YOU use on our cooler days? Wood? ( sequestered carbon,,and gross polluter by ECO standards) Gas heat? ( someone had to drill a well)
    Or was it a guaranteed “green” power?( glad you can afford it.)
    Yes, it’s a dog eat dog world. Something must DIE for you to survive. Be it animal and even Veggie. I happen to like being at the top of the food chain.
    Yup,, I just KNEW it.. your one of those “over populists”. So DO TELL.. What’s your “final solution”?

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37. 

    George Rebane

    27 April 2015

    Administrivia – The brand-spanking new 27apr15 sandbox is open for your contributions.

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38. 

    Walt

    27 April 2015

    Ben. Why is it that those that believe in “over population” are the most reluctant to remove themselves from the problem? They always want some other sucker to “go first”.

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39. 

    Gregory

    27 April 2015

    Ben, Ben, Ben,
    Starting with your first link, it doesn’t claim what you want it to claim. For example, this science by press release does include the info that “What we know is based on observations from just a very few twigs plucked from the enormous number of branches that make up the tree of life”… in other words, the evidence is very thin… and nowhere do they (a professor and a bunch of grad students in “integrative biology”, a brand spanking new major apparently made to order for scary science) actually pronounce we are entering into a mass extinction event. Needs more grants for them to study this more thoroughly, and we need to think ecologically to keep this from happening!
    Going to your last link, the claims themselves are not dated, but based on dates of elements reported by my browser’s tools, they may date from 1999 to as late as 2011. Here’s the actual sea ice extent based on satellite measurements up to within the last week or so:
    http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/global.daily.ice.area.withtrend.jpg
    We’re right at the average across the satellite record… not exactly worth scaring little children over, now, is it? It’s hard to “think critically” when your knowledge base is below critical mass but that never seems to stop you.
    To everyone getting goosebumps over the Global Warming Policy Foundation’s latest press release science, they’re also an activist group with a point of view. They tend to include scientists I consider credible, but an argumentum ad verecundiam citing the GWPF is as fallacious as one that cites the IPCC.

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40. 

    Gregory

    27 April 2015

    “Liberty does not come free, therefore to enjoy it EVERY fit male should spend time on the ramparts as part of his coming of age process.”-GR
    Sorry, no. When I was coming of age most of the cannon fodder being drafted went off to wade in rice paddies after the French got tired of the place, and neither Bush I, Clinton, Bush II or Obama have done the right thing in Iraq. As long as the powers that be regularly throw young American GI’s to bleed on other people’s problems, I don’t think it should be thought of as something every young capable male should undertake unless they really want to bleed on other people’s problems.
    The last chance to really do right in the middle east, after Bush 1 screwed up by sending in the Army, Navy and Air Force to eject Iraq from Kuwait, was not letting Schwartzkopf cruise into Baghdad and finish the job. If you’re going to start a war, finish the damn thing when you have a chance. And if you’re not trying to build a bloody Empire, get the hell out of there when it’s done.
    I’d be enthusiastic about a National Guard-ish service akin to what the Swiss have, but we don’t have that.

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41. 

    George Rebane

    27 April 2015

    Gregory 535pm – Interesting counter focused on arguable failures in the use of our country’s military. These don’t really address my overall thesis. However, then you conclude with a seeming reversal by identifying a type of military service of which you approve, one that also puts young men on the ramparts.

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42. 

    Gregory

    28 April 2015

    A well regulated militia really is necessary for the security of a free state, don’t you agree?
    As long as the Washington DC is going to be wasteful with the cannon fodder that either enlists or is drafted, and has a poor track record of sticking with real and not imagined threats to the security of our states and territories, I can’t imagine pushing kids towards service. The Swiss model is, I think, close to what the promoters of the 2nd amendment had in mind.
    “They’re doing their part. Are you? Join the Mobile Infantry and save the world. Service guarantees citizenship” made for a great SciFi B-movie tagline, but maybe the bugs really wouldn’t be bothering us and would be back to killing each other had we done a better job of staying out of their business in the first place.
    Thomas Jefferson sent the Marines to the shores of Tripoli, but they didn’t stay there long.

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43. 

    Gregory

    29 April 2015

    Ben Emery… here’s some bleeding edge research hot off the presses from the Scripps Institute for you to ponder, about all that arctic ice loss…
    “Scenarios of a sea ice tipping point leading to a permanently ice-free Arctic Ocean were based on oversimplified arguments”
    https://scripps.ucsd.edu/news/research-highlight-arctic-sea-ice-loss-likely-be-reversible
    http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/abs/10.1175/JCLI-D-14-00654.1
    In short, the computer models are wrong, but then, you’ve been told that before.

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44. 

    Walt

    29 April 2015

    Well score 1 for my side. The Blue Lead Mine wins the day, despite Izzy and her gang.

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