Sandbox – 7apr15

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Sandbox – 7apr15

07 April 2015

[Well, the weather outside is frightening … . Since the trees have leafed, we are going outside periodically to knock the snow off those bent over branches of the 'specimen trees' we can reach.

And the local dust devil getting people roiled around Nevada County today is the question 'Was Terry Lamphier set up?' for the child porn allegations that he is facing. Oh, the things that concern us in this hamlet as the state fights a politically amplified drought, the country prepares to adopt another 11 million illegal aliens into a still faltering economy and disintegrating culture, and the west refuses to acknowledge, let alone confront, radical Islam.]

Posted in Comment Sandbox

176 responses to “Sandbox – 7apr15”

fish

08 April 2015

Posted by: George Boardman | 08 April 2015 at 01:33 PM
Not sure how you get this…..
“For a man who believes little the government says, you are quick to accept the assurances of police that they’re justified every time they pull the trigger.”
From this….
“However, it does play into the hands of the anti-federalists as the last card added to the stack of previous police shootings that have been properly mitigated and extenuated. But this last card will now be used to characterize the entire stack of such shootings.”
The usual suspects tried to turn the Micheal Brown case into a cause celeb for the point George makes and eventually failed when the physical evidence didn’t support it. They tried again with the Garner case although they had to be careful given the fact that Garners only “crime” was depriving the state of revenue…..paltry at that.
I think George is saying that this instance will be used to paint over the failings of the other two recent cases while still lumping them in with this obviously “bad shoot”.

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Jon

08 April 2015

Any reasoned person cannot quibble with the Brown case as it turned out. Way to murky to make it a criminal case against the cop. Garner- definitely not properly mitigated. Most people watching that one think at least some type of indictment should have come down- maybe not murder. But to think the Charleston case is an isolated incident is pure fantasy. There are unfortunately plenty more bad-to-the-bone, trigger happy cops out there who want to kill people who disobey them. Some act out on that desire.

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joe smith

08 April 2015

Todd 18:17
You are a case in point where a little knowledge is dangerous. What you don’t see (or don’t admit to knowing) is that MOST of all those acre feet of “environmental” water are subsequently used for M,I, R and Ag purposes. Case in point: the Upper Yuba River has dictated “environmental” flows to keep the fish happy. Once that water enters Bullard’s Bar or Englebrite it is no longer deemed “emvronmental” and the deck gets re shuffled in terms of allocated use. If you want to rail about about how much water the environment gets, you can quickly gin up some pretty big numbers, but the vast majority of that water is not lost to other purposes.

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George Rebane

08 April 2015

GeorgeB 133pm – how you deduce from my 1125am that I “accept” that police are justified “every time they pull the trigger”, and that my skepticism of government pronouncements is inconsistent boggles my ability to follow your path to such conclusions. Could you please give us a hint?
Re Jon’s 155pm responding to the correct interpretation in fish’s 147pm – who here has stated that “the Charleston case is an isolated incident”? Jon seems to have information on the relative frequency of “bad-to-the-bone trigger happy” cop killings out there that he should share with us. Is this another incidence of liberal prescience wherein they know what we really think?

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Todd Juvinall

08 April 2015

Joe Smith 2:05 pm. Sorry Joe you can’t count the water more than once and you are way out in the ozones on that one. Read the chart first and maybe you will learn. It is from your Water Board for goodness sakes.
The cop shooting the fellow running away is the real deal. Each shooting of a gun by a police officer is handled individually in America. Cop shoots gun, cop goes on paid leave, Internal Affairs checks it all out. Yes sometimes a bad person/cop gets away with murder but it is truly rare. 461 felony suspects in 2013 HERE is the link.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/11/11/police-killings-hundreds/18818663/
114 Police Officers were killed in the line of duty in 2013. Here is the chart from the inception of the country on Officers deaths. Over 20,000 total.
http://www.nleomf.org/facts/officer-fatalities-data/year.html
The officer who killed the suspect in South Carolina will be charged for murder it appears. If the video is correct then he should face the death penalty.

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Todd Juvinall

08 April 2015

Oh and GeorgeB I copied this line from the FBI report for 2013.
“In 2013, of the 49,851 officers assaulted while performing their duties, 29.2 percent were injured.”
That is a lot of violence against the cops would you mot agree?

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George Boardman

08 April 2015

Re Dr. R 2:22 p.m.:
I come to my conclusion when I read phrases like “previous police shootings that have been properly mitigated and extenuated.”
How can you be so sure? After all, we have the police investigating the police. Who reviews their findings? The district attorney, who needs their cooperation to get his job done.
If the video hadn’t surfaced, you’d be defending the cop in the Charleston shooting.

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Jon

08 April 2015

Dr. GR, there is virtually no hard data out there on shootings involving police, as this article points out.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/09/us/us-has-limited-data-on-shootings-involving-police.html
We have recent studies from the Justice Dept regarding discriminatory police practices around the nation, as well as (where the data does exist) an impossibly high percentage exhoneration rate of police who use deadly force. In the entirety of the US police force, yes there are other bad apples out there. Rare in many communities, less rare in others is also my conclusion.

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George Rebane

08 April 2015

GeorgeB 244pm – My confidence in government reports not backed by verifiable data has always been qualified. Your calling to question my “properly mitigated and extenuated” statement neither bears on nor supports your 133pm charge that I perfunctorily accept police innocence every time they kill someone (fortunately you may check through eight years of records on this question).
Most of us familiar with the operation of police departments know that there will always be rogue cops who carry in their kit bags packets of plantable drugs and even a ‘throw-away’ (untraceable handgun) that should be in the evidence locker. In such cases we truly are at their mercy. If you have data on the relative frequency of such outlaw police, again please share.
And if it’s just a gut feel, what then do you suggest we do in response to the recently reported police killings, paint our signs to gather at the Rood Center with our pitchforks and torches?
Jon 302pm – Agreed about the availability of data, but have a problem with your “impossibly high percentage exoneration rate”. What is it about this rate that makes it impossibly high when we consider that such shootings take place in a biased population of victims that overwhelmingly self-select themselves to be in these encounters?

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Michael R. Kesti

08 April 2015

George Boardman 08Apr15 02:44 PM
After all, we have the police investigating the police.
In order to prevent the obvious flaws in having the police investigate themselves, it is one of the functions of grand juries is to investigate crimes that may have been committed by the police. Cases of police shootings are very often the subject of grand jury investigations.
If the video hadn’t surfaced, you’d be defending the cop in the Charleston shooting.
That must be yet another example of liberal prescience.

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Jon

08 April 2015

Of course those Grand Juries are fully objective, unbiased bodies…

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Walt

08 April 2015

My own Uncle was killed in the line of duty, when the piece of human filth got close enough to take, and shoot him with his own weapon. Just because the vermin didn’t want to go to jail for a midnight robbery of two bottles of booze.
Today, cops are targets thanks to the likes of Sharpton, and “O” even added fuel by attacking cops. More than once. Don’t forget the march’s down the streets openly wanting the shooting police. In the last year at least 4 officers have been killed, thanks to “protests”. Many more have been injured. Yes, cops are being targeted, and some wonder why they seem to be more quick to use their gun.

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Michael R. Kesti

08 April 2015

Jon 08Apr15 03:37 PM
Of course those Grand Juries are fully objective, unbiased bodies…
I imagine that most are but, being staffed by human beings, they are subject to corruption just as any other aspect of the criminal justice system and, for that matter, all of society. One way to help ensure their objectivity is to participate by volunteering to serve. The more people involved the harder it is for corruption to prevail.
Or are you suggesting that it would be better to have the police investigate themselves?

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George Rebane

08 April 2015

Jon 337pm – Given that level of unqualified distrust, you and Mr Boardman seem to be calling for a complete makeover of our governance, at least at the local levels. If so, that itself is a fertile field of debate if not discussion. As you may know, I have for some time cited the reasons for asserting that we are beyond the tipping point where return to the old ways of ‘doing business’ is not possible. Now, more significant national voices are coming to the same conclusion and weighing in with important essays on the matter (which we will continue covering here). Under a more appropriate posting, I look forward to reading of your counsel as to where we should go from here and how we will get there.

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Todd Juvinall

08 April 2015

Golly I gave two links to the 2013 facts on police shootings etc and yet the Jon and others still say there are no facts.

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Todd Juvinall

08 April 2015

Also for GeorgeB and “Jon” etal. I don’t give the cops all the breaks since I was personal friends (still am) of Grady Jones. That fiasco was something that should only happen in Albania for goodness sakes.

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joe smith

08 April 2015

TJ 14:30
Todd – When water is diverted from the Sacramento River into a rice field the allocation is based on the water rights of said rice grower. Right? Can we agree that this is an “agricultural” water allocation?
At the end of the rice season the rice water is drained back into the Sacramento River. What used to be ag water now becomes available for use as “environmental” water for, say, endangered species. Maybe YOU don’t like the “environmental” name, call it anything you like, but this is what DWR calls it.
The same thing happens every time you flush your toilet into a sewage system, treated and sent out the other end. It stops being a “municipal” allocation and is re-allocated according on the next water right’s holder downstream. And to answer your question, yes, the same gallon of water can be re allocated many times; the black and white stats from DWR can be very confusing to someone of your intellect and education. That’s why water law is a thriving industry. That’s why California’s annual water allotment is several fold that of what falls from the sky.

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Jon

08 April 2015

George and MK, I think the point is that the Grand Jury system is an obvious closely aligned arm of the DA, who in turn is closely aligned on a daily basis with the local Police agency. Human nature regarding the relationship. Police shooting matters should be investigated by a State entity, not a local one.

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Jon

08 April 2015

Congratulations Walt. You just had to go where even Todd refused to go today (to his credit), giving that murdering cop a convenient excuse to murder an unarmed human being in cold blood, execution style. Nice. Not surprising given the tone of your other posts.
Give Todd full credit on that issue, and with his intense obsession with the death penalty, even proposing capital punishment!! for a conviction of the cop- which I believe would be a first in American history. I would prefer to see that cold blooded creep rotting in prison the rest of his life. If you saw the video of his closed-circuit appearance on the initial charges, he looked and acted like he was being booked for a traffic violation. Doesn’t seem to have much of a conscience, much less a heart.

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Don Bessee

08 April 2015

Jon- State entity? Such as what, an elected politician called the attorney general? Boy that joe smith sure sounds like someone we know.

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George Rebane

08 April 2015

Administrivia – regarding the discussion of CA’s water squabble, there is an excellent piece on the topic that I posted on 6 April – ‘California’s Drought and Moonbeam Madness’.
http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2015/04/californias-drought-and-moonbeam-madness.html
For a coherent debate on the topic that will be easy to reference in the future, I would recommend that relevant comments be posted under that piece instead of being sprayed all over the place, especially in topic-free sandboxes. Capice?

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fish

09 April 2015

Now this is just sad……JoKe is all out of his Victory Gin and apparently is into the Pruno.
Joe Koyote says:
April 9, 2015 at 10:23 am
This seems to coincide with a resurgence of neo-nazis throughout Europe. Probably a similar scenario, disgruntled people who blame government and immigrants for their deteriorating economic and social situations. Tensions heightened by immigrants seeking “a new life in a modern democracy” and social asylum from their countries of origin only to find unfriendly and often hostile locals (The U.S.’s child immigrant situation speaks well to this). Add to that the heightened tensions from police activities like gunning down unarmed “suspects” who most often are people of color being shot by white police officers and you have a very volatile situation where emotions run high as people are forced to chose sides. Racism apparently is the easiest “string de jour” for the propagandists to plunk, especially during hard times when there is heavy competition at the lower end of the social spectrum for the remaining crumbs. Nazism rose up out of the Great Depression with the promise of wealth and glory through racial domination.
Just look at the American rustbelt and South… highest poverty rates in the country, lowest education rates, lowest government spending on public works and needs, failed political agendas like austerity, etc. Austere Kansas will have to close its schools early this year because of a lack of funds. Of course the major architects of Kansas austerity, the Koch bros. will take home tens of millions of dollars in tax breaks and subsidies at the expense of children’s educations. It is no wonder people are angry. Unfortunately their anger is being channeled at the wrong villains.
….and JoKe……what do you have against neo-nazis…….the Obama administrations State Dept is cuddled up with “Right Sector” in Ukraine as we speak!

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George Rebane

09 April 2015

fish 133pm – where did you pull out JoeK’s 1023am; I can’t locate such a comment on RR?

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fish

09 April 2015

I went fishing at jeffys.

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fish

09 April 2015

Posted by: George Rebane | 09 April 2015 at 01:39 PM
It was such a delicious example oh ProgThink I had to post it. The only thing he left out was the phrase, “government is the thing we all do together”.

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Jon

09 April 2015

I did notice no one tried to debate the facts presented by JoeK re: Kansas and everything else in his second paragraph. Just a personal attack with no merit.
JoeK’s post was spot on. He nails it.

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fish

09 April 2015

Posted by: Jon | 09 April 2015 at 07:39 PM
Hi jeffy………!

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fish

09 April 2015

In case there was any doubt about why the importation is being so vigorously pursued by the democrats!
Minting future voters one ICE bus load at a time!
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/04/09/immigration-activists-to-train-community-navigators-in-exec-amnesty-path-to-power/

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Don Bessee

09 April 2015

Come on ‘jon’ lets talk about the negotiating skills of 0. When the French and the senatorial dems are rejecting the obamanation you suck up harder sooo well. He whos name we shall not say or some other asa miscreant? Hmmmmmm…… OH I know Hide Hall!

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Jon

09 April 2015

Say what?

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Joe Koyote

10 April 2015

Little fishy the carp has now taken his trolling to a new level… stalking other blogs and reposting them here hoping for cheers and high fives from his compatriots for his clever comments. His obsession with all things Koyote borders on psychosis. Get some help Carp while you still can.

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fish

10 April 2015

Posted by: Joe Koyote | 10 April 2015 at 09:20 AM
Thank you for your concern JoKe but I’m fine…..and lets be honest there is plenty of reading other blogs and commenting elsewhere. Haven’t you been paying attention?
I thought you were proud of your “Two Minutes KochHate” you posted it in a semi public venue.

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Jon

10 April 2015

Obsessed, and unable to refute a single thought of your most pointed essay. Love it when the points are so sharp and factual that there is nothing they can debate. We saw not a single comment on the issue you raised, only the old reliable right wing chestnuts – those damn “libs”, other bloggers, the French, Senate Dems, O, the French, and a drunkenly misspelled Heidi Hall. Missing however in the debate was Benghazi and enviro wackos.
How about debating what JoeK said?

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fish

10 April 2015

Posted by: Jon | 10 April 2015 at 09:50 AM
Because we’ve already debated JoKes (and Bens, and Don Peltons…and on and on) “points” before numerous times. JoKes post was just more of the same canned bilge that is regularly found at any of the usual progderp servers.
It was just such a textbook example that it tickled me! As formulaic as a Haiku.

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Jon

10 April 2015

OK, so do you approve of tax breaks to multi-billionaires while massive cuts to schools make them close early? Do you acknowledge that is happening in Kansas?
It is.

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fish

10 April 2015

Posted by: Jon | 10 April 2015 at 10:05 AM
I’m generally in favor of tax breaks for everybody. We already know that the “hated rich” pay the bulk of the taxes in this country….and frankly I’m not terribly impressed with what I’m seeing emerge from the public schools in this country anyway…..maybe not being imprisoned in the states indoctrination factories any longer than absolutely necessary would be a benefit!

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fish

10 April 2015

Hey boys….as timely as todays comment thread!
http://www.wsj.com/articles/top-20-of-earners-pay-84-of-income-tax-1428674384

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Jon

10 April 2015

thanks for honesty fish. Nice to know you’re in favor of ripping the heart out of our nation’s public school system. Kansans with children in school may beg to differ. Best of luck to any Republican Pres candidate with that strategy in 2016!

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Todd Juvinall

10 April 2015

I too agree with fish that tax breaks should be afforded everyone. After all isn’t this America? I suggest “jon” review the per pupil expenditures here in America with the rest of the planet’s countries and then tell us if money is really a good tool for a good education. My guess is he will not comprehend the big picture but I can still hope for his enlightenment.

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Todd Juvinall

10 April 2015

Here is a CBS report from 2013. For all you “spend more” people.
“The United States spent more than $11,000 per elementary student in 2010 and more than $12,000 per high school student. When researchers factored in the cost for programs after high school education such as college or vocational training, the United States spent $15,171 on each young person in the system — more than any other nation covered in the report.”

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fish

10 April 2015

Posted by: Jon | 10 April 2015 at 11:55 AM
Your welcome jeffy……err…… “jon”! Anything I can do to clear up these matters for you!
psssssst……i’m not a republican……

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Jon

10 April 2015

Who said you were a Republican fish? I wished their candidate and party good luck with a plank of dismantling the public school system in America. They will talk a tough game to their base, and when push comes to shove will never go there. Like every other issue they will huff and puff about in the primary. Most will be de-emphasized in the general.

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Todd Juvinall

10 April 2015

As a Republican all I can say to “jon” is What a hoot! We kicked your butt three straight elections and we are trying to fix the mess you made destroying the education system in America. We will fix your mess.

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fish

10 April 2015

Best of luck to any Republican Pres candidate with that strategy in 2016!
Ah my mistake. Since you included it in your response to my earlier comment I thought you were implying that I was a Republican.
Retracted.

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Jon

10 April 2015

Todd,
You and Walt have an embarrassingly poor record of basic math. Which 3 straight elections might that be? Please list them in order. Or is that new Republican Math?

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Todd Juvinall

10 April 2015

Golly “jon” were you here for the Tea Party victories on a massive scale in 2010? Or the Congressional of 2012? Or maybe just last November 2014? You are an embarrassment to the libs for your utter ignorance. Can you count? Really?

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Jon

10 April 2015

2012, really Todd? Do tell more about the Repub pickup of Congressional seats that year! And then tell us about the Senate and Presidential.

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Todd Juvinall

10 April 2015

We picked up a couple os Senate seats in 12 and finished the route last year. We picked up 63 seats in the House in 2010 and now we have over 70. Sure you kept the Exec but that will end in 2016. Never static, always moving. You dems are stuck on stupid for supporting Hillary. A throwback to the past.

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Jon

10 April 2015

Sure Todd.
Upon further review-in 2012,
Repubs LOST 2 net Senate seats.
Repubs LOST 8 net House seats.
Romney LOST by 4% (5 Million votes) for President.
Why do you continually embarrass yourself with your political pronouncements?

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Jon

10 April 2015

by the way, am not happy with Hillary uncontested. Not at all.

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