92 responses to “Sandbox – 30mar15”

1. 

   Don Bessee

   02 April 2015

   Kesti- Why not look at the self reported drug use surveys from the 70’s to now before you babble. Weed is usually an ancillary issue on a lesser charge in our world. The incarceration rates now do not support the party line.

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2. 

   Michael R. Kesti

   02 April 2015

   Walt 02Apr15 09:12 PM
   Of course we cannot control production, etc., today. We call it a “controlled substance” but the only control we have is the figurative kicking of it under the rug of prohibition.
   We can grow our own tomatoes but most people just buy theirs at the market. We can also home brew alcohol (for personal use and to share with friends) but few people do. It’s just so much easier, and cheaper, too, to buy it at the market. There is every reason to believe that the same would be true for currently prohibited drugs.
   I have explained why legalization will make it harder for kids to get drugs as recently as 28 March 2015 at 08:42 PM but I’ll tell it again.
   Today the production, distribution, and sales are performed by those willing to take the risk of engaging in criminal activities and their high prices reflect that risk. As criminals, they have no motivation to limit their sales to adults. Without the risks prices can be expected to fall after legalization, removing criminals’ profit motive. They would be replaced by businessmen who are motivated to keep their licenses to produce, distribute and sell (just as those who now produce, distribute and sell alcohol and tobacco), and would therefore be unwilling to break the law by providing drugs to minors.

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3. 

   Bill Tozer

   02 April 2015

   Speaking of supporting the party line, I guess it does make a difference anyhow. Unless
   you are one of the 14 people….
   http://news.investors.com/politics-andrew-malcolm/040215-746221-hillary-clinton-poll-numbers-drop-again-in-key-states.htm

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4. 

   Michael R. Kesti

   02 April 2015

   Don Bessee 02Apr15 09:35 PM
   I suppose, but incarceration rates are only a few pixels of a much bigger picture. We currently spend about $25 billion per year on the war on a American people that has been waged for over 40 years with very little to show for it.
   It is not a valid role of government to protect me from myself by prohibiting me from ingesting some substances. It is a valid role of government to protect us from each other by controlling access to those substances.

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5. 

   Don Bessee

   02 April 2015

   No Kesti its about protecting kids from the fall out of your choices. The asa crap from before our kids were even born is irrelevant. Lets speak about our kids and what will give them the best future here and now. You suppose, why not learn the current reality here and in our cities?

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6. 

   Michael R. Kesti

   02 April 2015

   Don Bessee 02Apr15 10:16 PM
   I spoke about what is best for our kids at 09:47 this evening.

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7. 

   Michael R. Kesti

   03 April 2015

   Don Bessee 02April15 10:16 PM
   I’m finding myself too bugged about what Don said to let it go, so…
   No Kesti its about protecting kids from the fall out of your choices.
   And who is protecting kids from the fallout of criminals’ choices?
   The asa crap from before our kids were even born is irrelevant
   I don’t recall anybody saying anything about the Americans for Safe Access (ASA) but I don’t see how their approach is irrelevant. Seeing as how you brought it up you might want to explain.
   Lets speak about our kids and what will give them the best future here and now.
   I’m all about giving kids the best future and I don’t believe that providing criminals a profitable way to take advantage of them is what is best.
   You suppose, why not learn the current reality here and in our cities?
   I was inclined to ignore this sarcastic attempt at petty insult but I decided to respond because I feel it is you who has failed to learn from reality. The reality is that the war on drugs has failed and can never succeed. Anybody capable of understanding what happened during the prohibition of alcohol understands that the prohibition of some drugs is no different and that legalization with actual control will alleviate the problems that the prohibition’s lack of control has created.

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8. 

   Joe Koyote

   03 April 2015

   Gregory–Godwin’s law is a total pile of crap and was created to, ostensibly, deflect comparisons to the hideousness of Nazi policies to conservative policies. To cite Godwin as a response is no response at all but an excuse to confront ideological insanity. In this case Todd made the stupid assertion that MJ dealers who sell to minors should be executed, which is no less heinous than executing people because they are Jewish. The point, which none of you seem to care to respond to, and the point of the Nazi comparison is that the Holocaust was “legal” just like Todd’s assertion that if it were legal he would support the execution of MJ dealers. My point is that “legal” does not always have a moral equivalency.
   Bhopal was not the result of sabotage and seven employees were convicted of causing the deaths through negligence via deferred maintenance. So George’s assertion of “shallow debate” that “plumbs the depths of intellect” is just that.. a shallow response that plumbs the depths of intellect. Nice try George, but your response is no less worthless than Godwin’s law.
   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhopal_disaster

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9. 

   Todd Juvinall

   03 April 2015

   No JoeK, Gregory has it right and as usual, you bigoted fascists are caught again. You are just plain wrong as usual. We all see why you have self named yourself a sly dog type creature.

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10. 

    George Rebane

    03 April 2015

    JoeK 933am – Instead of summary dismissal of my 245pm, are you capable of giving a material reply?
    And can we take your “…the stupid assertion that MJ dealers who sell to minors should be executed, which is no less heinous than executing people because they are Jewish.” as a tenet of progressive belief in how ‘heinous’ should be defined and used?

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11. 

    fish

    03 April 2015

    Posted by: Joe Koyote | 03 April 2015 at 09:33 AM
    I love it when you go full on Maude Flanders!
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh2sWSVRrmo

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12. 

    Walt

    03 April 2015

    The Hawaiian tan spots from my beach sandals have gone away. ( it took a whole year!)
    After tripping over this web page, the itch to go back needs scratching.
    http://www.seehawaiilive.com/big-island/big-island-resorts
    Gotta love those live feeds. What’s REALLY COOL is you can move the camera to diff. points.
    This next time, I will let ya’ know which web cam you can catch me in.
    Sheraton Kona is a good stop.

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13. 

    Paul Emery

    03 April 2015

    George
    what is the reason you don’t condom both as “heinous acts” ? I gave Todd several chances to characterize his statement as sarcastic but he’s dead serious. Also what is your threshold of unacceptable characterizations of those who participate on this blog? “Bigoted fascists” used to describe yourself, Fish or Gregory for example would surely result in a quick deletion and condemnation but apparently not when it’s used the other way. You can do whatever you want because it’s your party but I’m curious what standards you apply to your discretion as to suitable material.

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14. 

    Paul Emery

    03 April 2015

    It might be accident genius but I meant to write “condemn both”.

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15. 

    George Rebane

    03 April 2015

    PaulE 1207pm – Am not sure you really understood my 1017am. Singapore, among other nations, executes drug dealers. These are lawful punishments in those lands and not described, even by the lamestream, as “heinous” acts. If selling drugs to minors is ever deemed a capital crime in the US, then presumably we also will execute such criminals. To equate such due process executions with the Holocaust would be a stretch beyond the breaking point for many Americans including me. However, as I ask, it may be an illuminative value statement describing people like you and JoeK.
    Using “bigoted fascists” to describe me and others of my ilk on these pages has never been cause for deletion. However, many here would quickly point out the demonstrated ignorance of such an ad hominem since Nazis believe(d) in big government, central planning, socialism, and state control of major industry sectors.
    None of the people here so referenced hold such beliefs, which gives rise to the notion that our readers from the Left have a hard time following most of debating that fill these pages. However, that itself is an important and informative factor of America’s polarized political spectrum to communicate to the undecided or middle road readers.
    Finally, your comment kinda goes off the rails in your last question about “suitable material”, which is hard to connect to what precedes it.

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16. 

    Walt

    03 April 2015

    Execution? In reality, Paul should have no worries. We can’t even “off” the mass murderers
    that are stacked six deep on death row. ( One just died of old age)
    Ca. has no more room. ( I guess we can just start setting them free) I guess we can always parole Charles Manson.

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17. 

    Paul Emery

    03 April 2015

    First of all George I was referring to the sale of MJ to minors not the sale of other drugs. I am opposed to the death penalty in general for religious reasons but even among those who support capital punishment use of that punishment for that crime would indeed be considered heinous when in reality a bunch of 19 year olds, for example, who distributed MJ to minors were put up against a wall and shot. If that’s not heinous I don’t know what is.

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18. 

    Todd Juvinall

    03 April 2015

    Paul Emery, George has made your argument look foolish. You are out of your league.

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19. 

    Todd Juvinall

    03 April 2015

    A loony Federal judge apparently found within the Constitution the right of an inmate to have us pay for a sex change. I am looking for the Article but so far have not found it. Anyone know where it is in the Constitution?

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20. 

    George Rebane

    03 April 2015

    PaulE 1235pm – In America executing 19-year-olds for whatever legal reason is neither heinous nor equivalent to the Holocaust for most people. However, your opposition “to the death penalty in general for religious reasons” is to be respected, but it does not serve in any debate as a reason for society to oppose capital punishment. To found such opposition, you have to go beyond your personal values.
    As an example, I personally oppose the large scale harm from the consumption of tobacco, alcohol, and drugs. But I cannot and have not used such personal opposition to argue against the legalization of all three substance categories – in fact, on a societal level I support their legalization as argued here for many years. You have a similar obligation when debating the applications of capital punishment.
    My 1225pm stands.

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21. 

    Brad C.

    03 April 2015

    Todd, that would be Articles XX / XY

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22. 

    Bonnie McGuire

    03 April 2015

    Here’s the story Todd.
    http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-la-california-inmate-sex-change-20150402-story.html.
    It will cost $100,000?

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23. 

    George Rebane

    03 April 2015

    JoeK 933am – “Godwin’s law is a total pile of crap and was created to, ostensibly, deflect comparisons to the hideousness of Nazi policies to conservative policies.”
    I am most curious about 1) to what specific “comparisons” are you referring, and 2) how could Godwin’s law, which is a probabilistic assertion, “deflect” such comparisons in any way whatsoever. Hopefully you will not employ crickets to explain the matter to us.

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24. 

    fish

    03 April 2015

    Also what is your threshold of unacceptable characterizations of those who participate on this blog? “Bigoted fascists” used to describe yourself, Fish or Gregory for example would surely result in a quick deletion and condemnation but apparently not when it’s used the other way.
    What blog have you been following Paul?
    When gentle Ben was still posting his favorite term for most of us was “Authoritarian or Fascist”! Both you and Frisch have called me a racist. Peoples sanity has been called into question. The need for psychotropic drugs charge has been hurled. I’ve said horrible things about Pelline…..all of them justified by the way. Peoples intelligence has been mocked. Patriotism is routinely denigrated…..and you pick today to complain about decorum?
    Go comment at jeffys…it’ s so much “safer” there!

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25. 

    fish

    03 April 2015

    JoeK 933am – “Godwin’s law is a total pile of crap and was created to, ostensibly, deflect comparisons to the hideousness of Nazi policies to conservative policies.”
    Another nonsensical statement from a troubled nonsensical man.

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26. 

    Todd Juvinall

    03 April 2015

    BradC 1:53, that was a good one!
    Societies have forever placed into their laws their penalties. As has been said the death penalty to drug dealers is one of them. I think America is severely impacted by illegal drugs and it is undermining our country. Therefore I support the death penalty of drug dealers of those I listed previously if that person sells to kids and is duly tried and convicted. Death by firing squad as Utah has just reinstated is fine with me. If society says MJ is included it doe not bother me one bit.
    Bonnie thanks for the link. Did the loony judge tell us where he found the “right” for the taxpayers to pay for it?

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27. 

    Don Bessee

    03 April 2015

    Kesti you are parroting the same stuff we heard from dennis perone on 215 and the asa for years like the incarceration issue. The decriminalization of weed and mmj have changed the landscape and we should be having a conversation about the now and the future not what happened in the last century.

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28. 

    Michael R. Kesti

    03 April 2015

    Don Bessee 03Apr15 06:21 PM
    I am parroting nobody. My ideas may be similar to Perone’s and the ASA’s but those ideas are the result of considering many sources of information and opinion, and of giving them much consideration.
    Yes, let us have that conversation.
    I have proposed the legalization and control of currently illicit recreational drugs in ways similar to those we currently control legal recreational drugs such as tobacco and alcohol. What faults, specifically, do you find in my approach?

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29. 

    joe smith

    04 April 2015

    Bessee 3/2 12:41 “The Bhopal incident was an act of sabotage and not the result of regular business operations. It was a joint operation of Union Carbide and the Indian govt.”
    Wow! Did Rennet tell you this or are you starting your own conspiracy theory? An international team investigated the Bhopal incident and found it was caused by corroded valves and worn gaskets that weren’t replaced and allowed water to enter the tank. It was an act of neglect that resulted in some number of people going to prison.

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30. 

    Don Bessee

    04 April 2015

    Go educate yourself Smith. Even wikipidea has the reports and general facts right. The science only supports the willful act of an individual since the key valve was not corroded and no one could recreate how the water could have gotten into the tank. Way too many details to recite here. You guys and your nc peeps history of the world.

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31. 

    Louis Wynn

    05 April 2015

    Actually Don WIKI says nothing of the sort. Thank you for your spwcific take and view of the world, and as usual it’s again inaccurate.
    We find it rather humorous when you continually talk about the pot issues and how illegal it is, especially when the guy who sells you your pot for the last 8 years, and then you confirm this information (and I doubt you have a recommendation??? LOL!!), so does that make you a criminal too?
    Must be hard fighting with yourself?
    As to your involvement in: Coalition for a Drug Free Nevada County, or FONA, or The ASPOA, or the Nevada County Court system, all of the groups that you’ve all gotten continually censured by because of your mouth, so how does this work? Once booted from one group you move to another?
    Is there a group that you haven’t been censured with yet because of ?????
    Inquiring minds want to know…. LOL!!!

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32. 

    fish

    05 April 2015

    Posted by: Louis Wynn | 05 April 2015 at 06:17 AM
    We find it rather humorous……
    “We”?
    Only one guy around here who employs pluralis majestatis regularly.
    Rumor has it he hates it when people won’t use their real names when they post!

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33. 

    George Rebane

    05 April 2015

    Well I’m impressed with our readership casually inserting stuff like pluralis majestatis into their copy. Again confirms that we have deeper roots in our culture than we let on in our everyday discourse. Thank you Mr fish for that churchillian riposte – it’s only the second time I have seen it used in a conversation in which I can claim to have taken part. Now it will not be the last.

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34. 

    fish

    05 April 2015

    Posted by: George Rebane | 05 April 2015 at 08:21 AM
    On this holiest of days trying to properly arrange greater and lesser quotation marks around (…and I shan’t attempt it here either) the royal we seemed rather unseemly.

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35. 

    joe smith

    05 April 2015

    Besee 4/4 18:08
    VERY selective and deliberate misinterpretation of wikipedia. Anyone who would like to check the truthfulness of Don Besee can go here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhopal_disaster It will only take a minute. Once again, he has proven himself to be a pathological liar.

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36. 

    Todd Juvinall

    05 April 2015

    Joe Smith, you sound like it is personal. What gives?

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37. 

    George Rebane

    05 April 2015

    Re the Bhopal disaster, Wikipedia states “The cause of the disaster remains under debate. The Indian government and local activists argue that slack management and deferred maintenance created a situation where routine pipe maintenance caused a backflow of water into a MIC, tank triggering the disaster. Union Carbide Corporation (UCC) contends water entered the tank through an act of sabotage.”
    Taking Wikipedia at its word, plant was half owned by Indian banks and government agencies who presumably had proportional representation on the plant’s board. Were the long-term deferred maintenance infractions as described, then the board would bear an enormous culpability. That was not part of the adjudication, and UCC, the deepest pocket, wound up as the only guilty party and paid all the bills.

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38. 

    Todd Juvinall

    05 April 2015

    Here is the “mea culpa” on the Rolling Stone Magazine’s big lie. We can see why “journalism” is dead in America. Made from whole cloth. Who do the innocents sue to get their good names back?
    http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-rolling-stone-investigation-20150405-story.html#page=1

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39. 

    Bill Tozer

    06 April 2015

    Wow. Calling someone tone deaf is now sexist. I be a male chauvinist Piggie.
    http://thehayride.com/2015/03/13-words-about-hillary-clinton-that-apparently-make-you-a-sexist-pig/

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40. 

    Russ Steele

    06 April 2015

    You will be fined for taking long showers.
    Sunday on ABC’s “This Week,” Gov. Jerry Brown (D-CA) said Californians will face heavy fines for taking long showers.
    Brown said, “This executive order is done under emergency power. It has the force of law. Very unusual. It’s requiring action and changes in behavior from the Oregon border all the way to the Mexican border. It affects lawns. It affects people’s — how long they stay in the shower. How businesses use water.”
    More HERE.
    http://www.breitbart.com/video/2015/04/05/gov-jerry-brown-californians-to-be-heavily-fined-for-long-showers/

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41. 

    joe smith

    06 April 2015

    Bush III has “discovered” he is a latino. Ay Yi Yi!! Will he run as Jorge Planta tres?

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42. 

    fish

    06 April 2015

    Will he run as Jorge Planta tres?
    Don’t know why he would……”planta” is plant……”arbusto” is bush en espanol.

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