Rebane's Ruminations
February 2015
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George Rebane

“I do not believe, and I know this is a horrible thing to say, but I do not believe that the president loves America,” Giuliani said during the dinner at the 21 Club, a former Prohibition-era speakeasy in midtown Manhattan. “He doesn’t love you. And he doesn’t love me. He wasn’t brought up the way you were brought up and I was brought up through love of this country.” (Politico, 18feb15)

Mayor Giuliani’s recent remarks about President Obama’s character and values has caused a national kerfuffle on the Sunday talk shows that to me seems more than a bit silly.  The Mayor said that he didn’t believe Obama loved America in the way most Americans do because of his upbringing and the society in which he traveled.  He was brought up by parents and grandparents who were socialists and communists, and who evinced little love for our country.  And as an adult Obama was constantly exposed to and worked with people of similar sentiments (“God damn America!”, Rev Wright).  So his honor pulled that together as a picture that described the man in the attempt to explain away his unfortunate pronouncements and disastrous policies.

The lamestream, of course, went ballistic and even pulled in some mainstream Republicans to assure everyone that they never ever talk about personalities, but only the person’s policies.  Not only that, but it now appears that the politically correct way to deport oneself when discussing other people is to limit yourself to what they did or were supposed to have done.  To delve into what possibly made them do it has become a no-no.

Well, that’s not the way it was, and truth be told, is not even now.  But you have to be careful when you start trying to dig under a politician’s policies to discover what made him do it then, what he is doing now, and importantly, what he might do in the future with issues yet to be resolved.  Such studies, of course, have been the sum and stuff of analyzing the world's leaders and prominent people since age immemorial.  Humans are by their nature critters who seek to understand and organize their environment by constantly attributing cause – ‘why did he do it?’, ‘why might he do that next?’.  Nowhere is that endeavor more prevalent than in politics, and to hear politicians seriously deny that they ever abstract or talk about someone’s underlying personal traits confirms that when a politician’s mouth is open, he’s most likely lying.

So today, to point out that Obama’s murky past included heavy doses of anti-Americanism in his younger years is held by the Left as being out-of-bounds, prejudicial, and racist.  Today we should only judge him by his public policies, period.  Of course, that was not the case in the treatment of Bush2, Clinton, and other American leaders.  Tomes have been written over the centuries dissecting the personal lives, character, foibles, and values of prominent people to understand and explain their behavior.  Today the CIA and other security services develop and maintain extensive personality profiles on just about everyone in the public eye so that they can explain why they are doing what they do, and can predict what they may do in the future.  It would be utter foolishness not to devise such personality models of important people.  So why can we not explain to others the conclusions we have drawn about what in our opinion makes someone tick?

[26feb15 update]  Listening to comments by Ron Fournier of the National Journal on Fox this afternoon piqued an inquiry of our readership.  Fournier’s dissertation on Obama’s latest charitably labeled missteps jibed with much of what is reported these days.  Many of these missteps have been purposive policies and actions which the overwhelming fraction of Americans would agree have hurt our country.  But Fournier, like every other reporter and commentator today, since Giuliani’s famous statement, has hastened to add the obligatory political correctness that he wasn’t calling Obama unpatriotic.  No, no, no.

Well, I have not been accused of being politically correct, nor do I want to stand so accused in the future.  So I would ask Fournier, and more importantly the more conservative commentators on Fox (e.g. Krauthammer, Riley, Hayes, …), to present evidence that Obama is in fact a patriotic American.  Make two columns on a sheet of paper and title them ‘Unpatriotic Acts’ and ‘Patriotic Acts’.  The column of Unpatriotic Acts has been overfilled for some time now.  The question is – what would these politically correct commentators put in the other column to give evidence of Obama’s patriotism and give balance to the lists?

Posted in ,

194 responses to “‘Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain’ (updated 26feb15)”

  1. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Mob Rule, what a worn out mischaracterization of how a democratic republic works.
    Is it a surprise when we have low voter turn outs Republicans fair better? The more corporatist of the two parties. Again those at the top fair better with less people voting allowing their money and influence to have more power. Why do you think the Koch bros. organization ALEC is behind all the Voter ID Laws popping up in states all over the country? The Tea Party is just the John Birch Society re branded and who help start the JBS? Fred Koch. Charles and David Koch are psychopaths who inherited more money than they could spend in who knows how many lifetimes and yet they spend millions annually trying to obtain more money and power.
    Conservative think tank, Heritage Foundation co founder Paul Weyrich said to a group in the 1980s
    “Now many of our Christians have what I call the goo-goo syndrome — good government. They want everybody to vote. I don’t want everybody to vote. Elections are not won by a majority of people, they never have been from the beginning of our country and they are not now. As a matter of fact, our leverage in the elections quite candidly goes up as the voting populace goes down.”
    ALEC link to model legislation for Voter ID Laws
    http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/08/21/13392560-flurry-of-voter-id-laws-tied-to-conservative-group-alec
    Koch Bros. going to spend nearly $1,000,000,000 on the 2016 election.
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/koch-backed-network-aims-to-spend-nearly-1-billion-on-2016-elections/2015/01/26/77a44654-a513-11e4-a06b-9df2002b86a0_story.html
    Koch Private Presidential Tryout/ Primary for 2016 nomination (Who needs the Republican Party when our government is now legally up for sale to the highest bidder) Amazingly I couldn’t find a Fox”news” link to this story.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/21/us/koch-seminar-is-early-proving-ground-for-gop-hopefuls.html?_r=0
    http://www.politico.com/story/2015/01/koch-brothers-primary-california-114500.html
    http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/the-koch-brothers-primary
    Here is a list of Koch Bros influence, remember we have an oligarchy not a democratic republic any longer.
    60 Plus Association : $53,880,446
    American Commitment : $12,899,544
    Center to Protect Patient Rights (now known as American Encore): $118,667,000
    American Energy Alliance : $2,614,960
    American Future Fund : $76,822,409
    American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC): $1,019,958
    American Values Action: $230,000
    Americans for Job Security : $4,945,000
    Americans for Limited Government : $7,160,000
    Americans for Prosperity: $60,470,808
    Americans for Responsible Leadership : $25,552,800
    Americans for Tax Reform : $5,502,000
    Americans United for Life Action : $624,000
    Center for Shared Services: $8,500,387
    Citizen Awareness Project : $1,000,000
    CitizenLink: $8,980,218
    Club for Growth: $1,365,000
    Common Sense Issues: $160,000
    Concerned Women for America: $11,401,573
    Donors Trust: $8,890,000
    EvangChr4 Trust: $6,135,000
    Foundation for Individual Rights in Education: $1,430,561
    Free Enterprise America : $3,627,500
    Freedom Partners
    Freedom Partners Action Fund: $4,000,000
    Generation Opportunity: $14,699,211
    Hispanic Leadership Fund : $692,000
    National Association of Manufacturers : $3,670,000
    National Federation of Independent Business : $2,710,783
    National Rifle Association : $6,615,000
    National Right to Work Committee : $1,000,000
    Philanthropy Roundtable: $338,945
    Public Notice: $17,466,943
    Republican Jewish Coalition : $700,000
    Revere America : $2,300,000
    RightChange.com: $850,000
    Susan B Anthony List : $1,560,000
    TC4 Trust
    Tea Party Patriots : $230,000
    The Libre Initiative Trust: $3,957,366
    Themis Trust: $24,831,000
    US Chamber of Commerce: $3,000,000
    West Michigan Policy Forum : $1,250,000

    Like

  2. George Rebane Avatar

    BenE 1028am – numeracy demands a bit more than such a “list of Koch Bros influence” – first, what the hell does that mean; second, who contributed those monies over what time interval? Ben, you’ve got to be a bit more serious than that. And to make your high-handed point, you should also publish what Soros and our local CA billionaire have been funding.

    Like

  3. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    George,
    Funny you should mention Soros, I was just going to look up his influence along with Buffet and other billionaires.
    Again we have an oligarchy full of psychopaths behind the curtain. Soros is no bleeding heart when it comes to making money just like Bill Gates or Warren Buffet. All of them are disgusting. I can go on a very long rant and do when arguing lefties about Bill Gates.

    Like

  4. fish Avatar
    fish

    Mob Rule, what a worn out mischaracterization of how a democratic republic works.
    But you aren’t in favor of a democratic republic….you are in favor of “democracy” as you have related numerous times. By definition “mob rule” or ‘vox populi” if you prefer. You have also acknowledged that this doesn’t work on the scale we are discussing.

    Like

  5. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Here is my go to website when I just want the numbers with no political leanings one way or another.
    A breakdown of Koch vs Soros spending in politics
    http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2010/09/opensecrets-battle-koch-brothers/

    Like

  6. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: George Rebane | 28 February 2015 at 10:39 AM
    ….numeracy demands a bit more than such a “list of Koch Bros influence”
    Nope…the standard lefty boogie man (men) are the Kochs….frankly sometimes I’m afraid to say their name as it brings bad juju down on the village.

    Like

  7. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: Ben Emery | 28 February 2015 at 10:48 AM
    Interesting how in the 2008 election cycle when the Kochs vastly outspent Soros the nation found itself saddled with president Hope’n Change.
    Surely that wasn’t what they were planning!

    Like

  8. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    Ben Emery, please tell us how you would get the voters to turn out to the degree it satisfies you. Give us the details.
    I am a bit confused though. If we all have “free will” then if a person decides not to vote wouldn’t that be an example of free will?
    Anyway, you appear to have allegations without substance. A typical leftwing position.

    Like

  9. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    Ben – you just confirmed that you mis-quoted me. Why am I supposed to stop?
    This whole argument is going no where. You lefties need to understand that nothing is stopping you or anybody else from promoting and voting for anybody you want. Just because your guy can’t make the ballot or even win an election doesn’t mean that there is some problem with ‘the system’.
    The political system could use improvement and I’d love to see less money involved, but it’s not going to happen until we improve the quality of the electorate. And big govt doesn’t want that to ever happen.

    Like

  10. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Here is another lay out of the same info from the 2010 Open Secrets link. The only lists I can find on Soros have summaries with each name/ organization making it waaayyy too long to post here.
    Koch Bros. and George Soros: How America’s High-Profile Political Donors Compare
    http://ivn.us/2015/02/02/koch-bros-george-soros-americas-high-profile-political-donors-compare/
    As for how much over what period of time makes no difference. Why would people who inherited more money than they know what to do with invest even $1 towards anything that has potential of hurting others? Soros has his hands all over the financial crash in Sweden during the 90’s. Gates exploits workers all over the planet while violating/ breaking laws to amass more wealth and power.
    20,000 people a day are starving to death, which takes months and up to years to reach the point of shut down of vital organs and yet these mother fu@#ers will exploit, plunder, destroy environment, break laws, and take over governments to get more wealth. Almost 50% of global children deaths under 5 years old is due to malnourishment. Another 6,000 children die everyday due to water born diseases and poor sanitation conditions.
    The world can sustain and provide for our 7 plus billion citizens but when a few hundred or thousand psychopaths control access due to their need for power we create the world we live in today.
    War, greed, death, destruction, ect…. along with Love, compassion, life, ect…. are all part of life but it is up to us personally to choose which side of the equation we want to support and participate on.

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  11. fish Avatar
    fish

    20,000 people a day are starving to death, which takes months and up to years to reach the point of shut down of vital organs and yet these mother fu@#ers will exploit, plunder, destroy environment, break laws, and take over governments to get more wealth. Almost 50% of global children deaths under 5 years old is due to malnourishment. Another 6,000 children die everyday due to water born diseases and poor sanitation conditions.

    This claim demands citation or retraction.

    Like

  12. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    So Ben Emery, you are speechless on how you will get the turnout you desire in elections apparently. Would you fine people for not voting? Since Americans have free will and decide not to vote would you make that a crime? Come on tell us all how you would get people to vote. Stop the nonsense about the Koch Brothers and give us your solutions to voters turning out. You can do it. We are waiting.

    Like

  13. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Fish,
    In 2008 we had a higher voter turnout didn’t we, at least for the US (57%). That is what 8 years of the Bush administration will bring us. Since 2008 we have had 3 elections two of them where Republicans made great gains and both of those were the years when voter turnout was at 42% and 36%. In 2012 there were 92 million eligible voters who didn’t vote, that is pathetic and a sign that our electoral system is broken.
    Todd,
    There are a number of things we can do
    -Make Election Day a National Holiday
    -Move Election Day to Saturday
    -Make vote by mail more accessible to more voters
    -Same day registration
    -Remove private investments/ contributions from our political system
    -Put campaign spending caps on each office
    -Make FCC licensing attached to candidate prime time slots for 30 days prior to election day
    I can go on if you want?

    Like

  14. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: Ben Emery | 28 February 2015 at 11:28 AM
    But under your oligarchic voter suppression premise this can’t happen. Under your money is not speech and Koch Bros are buying elections argument Sugar Frosted Barry O should be but a footnote in history.
    I imagine the republicans made great gains in those subsequent elections because they saw quite legitimately where things were headed and voted to counter.
    Really you aren’t surprised are you?
    In 2012 there were 92 million eligible voters who didn’t vote, that is pathetic and a sign that our electoral system is broken.
    Not voting is a valid choice. People have their own reasons for not voting. Why is that so painful for you?

    Like

  15. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    So Ben Emery, if those voters don’t turnout as you have outlined then what? It seems people are exercising “not voting” as a choice. A free will choice. So, tell us what you would do if they still did not vote. I am all ears.

    Like

  16. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Fish,
    “This claim demands citation or retraction.”
    I decided to give a fact check link that points to specific organizations and their studies instead of the studies themselves.
    This is what my brother does for a living in South East Asia. I have seen children drinking straight out of muddy potholes for their drinking water. My brothers organization is a libertarian dream organization. Other than my brother everybody was born from the region. He has now lived their for 10 or so years, is married, and owns a home. Funding is almost entirely private. They teach villages how to build bio sand water filters and how to capture and retain water, cisterns, how to eliminate the middle man leaving them with more food, which allows them to sell more at the markets, and so on. I do fund raisers for his organization and have done and hope to do more presentations in California for them.
    Check out UN, UNICEF, Lancet, World Health Organization, ect…. if you want to see the actual studies.
    How many people die each minute from starvation?
    https://factcheckinginjusticefacts.wordpress.com/2012/01/16/asmaa-al-hameli/

    Like

  17. George Rebane Avatar

    Dear People – on voters, voting, and who should vote, a lot of water has passed under this bridge on RR. We are not adding much to it here. For some more definitive discussion, I return you to the post ‘Who should (not) vote’ and its comment stream, so you can tell which barn you’re orbititng.
    http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2012/12/who-should-not-vote.html#more

    Like

  18. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    George,
    I am finished with it for now. I hope my participation brings a different perspective to your topics. Spending millions upon millions annually to create more wealth and power while others are dying from malnutrition and lack of access to clean water seems borderline evil in my opinion. I don’t care what part of the political spectrum a person sits on.

    Like

  19. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: Ben Emery | 28 February 2015 at 12:02 PM
    “Check out UN, UNICEF, Lancet, World Health Organization, ect…. if you want to see the actual studies.”
    I don’t.
    I know there are huge chunks of the world that are South East Asian pot hole drinking, Filipino Smokey Mountain garbage picking shitholes! How they do things in those countries is really the business of those countries and their citizenry. I believe you’ve made the argument in other instances that US intervention overseas is both paternalistic and counterproductive.
    While I think it’s a mistake to conflate voting in American elections with poor hygiene in the third world, for the purposes of continuing this discussion let me just say that as an American, my concern is to not let those kinds of conditions develop here. Unfortunately letting a huge herd of room temperature IQ, would be FSA members greater access to the ballot then they already have…. stands in direct opposition to that position.
    Hat’s off to your brother though!

    Like

  20. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: George Rebane | 28 February 2015 at 12:08 PM
    From the aformentioned comment thread.
    What an elitist anti-American anti-liberty and anti-freedom post George. Over the last year or so I sat and watched you piece by piece propose the exact forms of government that the American Revolution was fought against. This post is the epitome of class warfare and tyranny.
    “Class warfare”…? I don’t think that phrase means what you think it does.
    The only reason to expand the franchise to every single soul who can fog a mirror is to effect redistribution. I suspect that this is now and always has been Bens ultimate intent. Not the majesty of “self determination”, no civic participation makes for a better society, but ultimately just “rich people like the Koch Brothers have too much money and we want it!”…by herding the easily led to the polls we can vote it to ourselves.
    Progressives….we lower the standards so you don’t have to!

    Like

  21. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Fish,
    Those billionaires I complain of have interests and investments all over the planet that affect third world nations and their people. If someone has tens of millions of dollars why is there a need for them to try to increase their wealth/ power? They are psychopaths that have no empathy towards the plight of others if they are willing to cause others to suffer so they can throw more upon their heap. Bill Gates and the Walton Family exemplify this psychopathic behavior. The Walton heirs spent tens of millions of dollars trying to avoid and influence the the estate/ inheritance and income tax. What is the practical difference between $1 billion dollars and $2 billion dollars? Nothing, but they want the very same infrastructure that allowed their father to amass multibillion dollar fortune to go underfunded so their bank accounts will sow more zeros and they can flaunt it among their friends.
    Report: Walmart’s Billionaire Waltons Give Almost None Of Own Cash To Foundation
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/clareoconnor/2014/06/03/report-walmarts-billionaire-waltons-give-almost-none-of-own-cash-to-family-foundation/

    Like

  22. fish Avatar
    fish

    Those billionaires I complain of have interests and investments all over the planet that affect third world nations and their people.
    …and your solution to that. Forbidding US investors from investing overseas? Good luck with that!
    If someone has tens of millions of dollars why is there a need for them to try to increase their wealth/power?
    Not for you to judge their motivations. If you can ascertain that someone is engaged in criminal activities then by all means report them to the proper authorities.
    They are psychopaths that have no empathy towards the plight of others if they are willing to cause others to suffer so they can throw more upon their heap.
    Your opinion only.
    The Walton heirs spent tens of millions of dollars trying to avoid and influence the the estate/inheritance and income tax.
    …and who can blame them. Tell me that giving more money to the federal government to piss away on stupid shit (SBC prepared “CLIMATE ACTION PLANS spring immediately to mind.) is better than keeping control of it yourself?
    What is the practical difference between $1 billion dollars and $2 billion dollars? Nothing, but they want the very same infrastructure that allowed their father to amass multibillion dollar fortune to go underfunded so their bank accounts will sow
    Maybe if the government didn’t piss money away on pointless wars, domestic stupidities like Obamacare and Obama Phones, and bailing out crooked bankers there would be funds to fix the infrastructure.

    Like

  23. Michael R. Kesti Avatar
    Michael R. Kesti

    fish 28Feb15 01:07 PM
    In addition to fish’s response to Ben Emery’s condemnation of the rich I have this to add.
    It is easy to forget that those thought of as the middle class in the U.S. are, by third world standards, fantastically wealthy. Those third-world people in whose name you deride the rich for lacking empathy toward may very well see you as a psychopath, Ben, and ask why you need to increase your wealth. I imagine, though, that you see no evil in attempting to improve your lot because you don’t see yourself as too rich. Instead, it is always those who have more wealth than you that are the psychopaths. How, then, can we define, exactly, when any of us is sufficiently wealthy?
    Also, I think there is great truth in the Chinese philosophy of yin-yang. There cannot be love without hate, peace without war, hot without cold, and wealth without poverty. This is simply the way of the world and history shows that attempts to equalize wealth result in very little wealth for all but a very few rather than moderate wealth for all.
    I choose to celebrate the rich. Yes, some are scoundrels, but I believe that without the rich, including the scoundrels, the world would not be a better place than it is with them.

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  24. George Rebane Avatar

    MichaelK 317pm – Well said. Perhaps a better restatement of your “How, then, can we define …” would be –
    How, then, can we define, exactly, when any of THEM are sufficiently wealthy?

    Like

  25. Walt Avatar

    Well now.. Don’t you dare speak ill of “O”!…. ESPECIALLY if your from his “home*” state.
    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/02/28/hawaii-rising-dem-star-risks-future-to-take-on-obama-over-islamic-extremism/?intcmp=latestnews
    She might wind up like one of the Putin critics.

    Like

  26. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    Kesti, well stated!

    Like

  27. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Oh. The fact that there is a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about anticipated traffic. Just saying. Carry on Bro Ben about starving children, corporate greed, money in politics, the New Jim Crow Laws, who makes too much and who makes too little, the two party system, and last but not least, 738,548.78 billion years of slavery and injustice. Do I see the forest from the trees…..yet????
    I can exercise my right not to vote. I love rich people. Gives us all hope. If ole Sam Walton can work 90 hours a week for 45 years expanding his little house on the praire to leave a fortune to his loved ones, then so can someone else. What one man can do, another man can also. Gives others hope. The American Dream.
    “You may say I’m a dreamer, but I am not the only one”. Yep, John Lenon had his dreams come true as well. Not bad for a kid from Liverpool.
    Don’t mess with our hopes, Ben Emery. Your solutions rob people of the hope that burns within the breadth of mankind, just like all libbie Marxist solutions.

    Like

  28. fish Avatar
    fish

    George
    Recovery was only necessary because of the mess Bush left in his eight years in office. Perhaps you should talk to homeowners about the values of their homes compared to 08. Also to those who have invested in the stock market about what they prefer. How much of that deficit can we attribute to our unfunded wars in the middle east, part of the Bush legacy.
    Posted by: Paul Emery | 27 February 2015 at 06:14 PM

    Yep…….magnificent performance from a robust economy……..and hey, just look at that stock market!
    “The second issue is even more troubling. Recall also from one month ago that according to Goldman’s calculations, the biggest source of net inflows, i.e., buyer of stocks, in 2015, will be companies themsleves (sic). Aka: lots and lots of buybacks…. but apparently not enough.
    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-02-28/here-reason-why-stocks-just-had-their-best-month-october-2011

    Like

  29. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    I neither celebrate nor denigrate the rich for their wealth. Some earned it, some didn’t. Some wear it well, some don’t. Some I’d like to live near, some can’t be far enough away.
    That said, the rich generally have capital that they don’t just want to stuff into a mattress and so it gets invested, meaning other people use it to create jobs and assets with value, and that will always benefit the people as a whole more than the Ben final solution, a Kosher cashectomy, draining it from their (financially speaking) lifeless carcasses and letting the government spend it. Do that and you’ll find how quickly the rich disappear beyond your reach.

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  30. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Sorry Greg, demand creates jobs not the wealthy. My opposition against accumulated wealth has to do with the power and influence it creates over the lives of other people who have less. If they just kept to themselves I wouldn’t care. If we went to a public funded for public office system their money would have less influence.

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  31. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    I ain’t going to fund one asshole from either party, ever. When I do taxes and it asks at the bottom if I want to give a couple bucks to help that ugly squaw Elizabeth Warren or Hannibal the Cannibal or Debbie Downer or Anthony’s Weiner or Ben Emery, the answer is always Not in this Lifetime. That would be a voluntary poll tax. I just tell the IRS and Jerry Brown I’d rather not contribute, voluntarily or involuntarily, to poll taxes.

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  32. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    It is my experience that lazy ass people who are jealous of others success exhibit the same characteristics are espoused here by Ben Emery. Envy is a sin and yet the lazy ass people practice it all the time. They are called “liberals” and they want the rich to get poor bu giving the lazy ass people their money through government.

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  33. fish Avatar
    fish

    Sorry Greg, demand creates jobs not the wealthy.
    ….and high wages create demand? But what causes demand……ta dah, life causes demand……but we have life now and it’s not causing high wages???
    Ben you need to go over this whole economics/high wages issue again for me……I think I’m missing a few pages from my notes!
    Where do the wealthy come into this again?

    Like

  34. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Fish,
    People become wealthy supplying the demand to consumers with their labor and then labor of others. No good business person ever hires somebody out of the goodness of their hearts. They hire somebody to create more profit than the cost of their labor, if they do not do this either the labor wages go down or the job disappears. What has changed in the US over the last 40 years is priorities and incentives not how markets work. Once wealthy enough they begin to invest in government, which has a huge ROI.
    Monied Special Interest don’t Contribute to politicians they Invest in access and want return on those investments. That is why our state and federal governments have exploded in size in the last 40 years as well. As corporate and wealthy tax decrease their is less money for our budgets and the last 40 years we have seen our national debt skyrocket because of it. Change the priorities and incentives for those at the top those in the middle and bottom pay the price. Thus the increase for the need of social programs. The social compact that was put in place by FDR, Truman, Eisenhower, JFK, and Johnson was reversed with Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush, and now Obama.
    The Walton’s, Koch’s, and Soros’s of the country know the safest investment is in our government. Invest a few million here or there on shifting some laws and the return will be in the billions.

    Like

  35. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Fish,
    A 2010 Q & A with The Union.
    Q: What can you do to save tax dollars?
    A: My first act once elected will be to author a bill making our federal and presidential campaigns publicly funded. With a small investment we could realize billions in budget savings. Lawmakers spend anywhere from 1/3 to 2/3 of their time fundraising (aka making deals with big donors) for their next campaign. This practice leads to huge bills that are filled with earmarks and pork to pay back those big donors. It also leads to staggering amounts of subsidies to industries and companies that don’t need subsidies. It would be up to the people to persuade candidates to only use public financing by not voting for those who use private funds. The priorities of our elected officials have to be the people not special interests if we want democracy in America.

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  36. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Todd,
    Lazy ass people like me? I have been working for a paycheck since I was 13 years old and started working on my uncles farm even younger. I volunteer anywhere from 500 to 700 hours a year for the last decade or so, with 90% of those hours in our community.
    You are barking up the wrong tree.

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  37. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Ben, get over this democracy crap. It don’t exist. We are a republic.

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  38. George Rebane Avatar

    For our leftwing friends we still invite them to consider what the wealthy would do if governments became of a size and scope that they could no longer offer the largest ROI to satisfy the greedy and well connected. Where would they then be driven with their bags of money to invest?

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  39. fish Avatar
    fish

    A 2010 Q & A with The Union.
    ????
    People become wealthy supplying the demand to consumers with their labor and then labor of others. No good business person ever hires somebody out of the goodness of their hearts.
    On balance we are in agreement.
    They hire somebody to create more profit than the cost of their labor, if they do not do this either the labor wages go down or the job disappears.
    Again we are pretty much in agreement. I do think that your statement contradicts an earlier positions you have espoused regarding wages paid to lower income individuals.
    What has changed in the US over the last 40 years is priorities and incentives not how markets work. Once wealthy enough they begin to invest in government, which has a huge ROI.
    Again agreement. Philosophically though, your goal to have the government soothe every societal ill makes this an inevitability. The wealthy now have to interact with government as a defense against predatory taxation and over regulation in addition to using government to suppress rivals and force the creation of markets that likely wouldn’t exist absent government intervention.
    Monied Special Interest don’t Contribute to politicians they Invest in access and want return on those investments.
    Again, omnipotent government makes this a necessity. The very wealthy see a government whose influence can be purchased as irresistible. Were it more constrained there would be less impetus to attempt to use it in this manner.
    That is why our state and federal governments have exploded in size in the last 40 years as well. As corporate and wealthy tax decrease their is less money for our budgets and the last 40 years we have seen our national debt skyrocket because of it.
    It wouldn’t make any difference. You could double or triple their taxes and politicians would find ways to fritter it all away and run up monstrous debts. Endless overseas adventures, Obamacare, Obama Phones, Studies regarding the sexual arousal in lesbian Narwhals……huge sums wasted after politicians and their cronys collect their skim.
    Change the priorities and incentives for those at the top those in the middle and bottom pay the price. Thus the increase for the need of social programs.
    Now you’re just making me laugh! Essentially you are acceding to the type of government that you claim to abhor as long as some of the crumbs are spread around at the bottom.
    The social compact that was put in place by FDR, Truman, Eisenhower, JFK, and Johnson was reversed with Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush, and now Obama.
    Unsustainable programs that foster dependency that will eventually fail after ruining the people they were meant to help. FEDGOV took in more taxes this year than it ever has and yet there remains a sizable and apparently perpetual difference in what is spent and what is taken in. Eventually this will lead to a failure. When?? Who knows. Just don’t be around when the EBT cards stop working.
    The Walton’s, Koch’s, and Soros’s of the country know the safest investment is in our government. Invest a few million here or there on shifting some laws and the return will be in the billions.
    Yeah….until there are no more billions to dole out. Hope you don’t live long enough to see it!

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  40. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Finally, some good news for our adorable little friends on the Left: No more looking at that mean o’ Wall.
    http://www.theonion.com/articles/death-row-inmate-dies-of-natural-causes-3-days-int,38081/

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  41. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    Ben Emry 9:54AM
    When a person has no pot to pi** in or a window to throw it out of, they preach like Mr. Ben does. Simple envy that others do better or are smarter. Simple as that, nothing else.

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  42. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Oh Mr. Juvinall, our person of interest is furiously writing long well sourced rebuttals to each and every comment. That takes time, plus family demands may be distracting the aborable one.as we wait to hear from on high. Yes, envy is an evil and corroding thread. Does more damaged than lying, stealing, and stomping on people’s feet.
    Not that the aborable one is thinking about himself or hiding behind envy for personal reasons. Never! It’s all about the envy felt by starving children in areas without potable water, the po child in the liberal controlled ghettos known as Chicago and Detroit, and of course little Juan Pablo looking up at the border wall we evil heartless ones built. It’s not fair. If we drain the Treasury and do some good old fashioned Third World confiscatin’, then we can all be just like little Juan Pablo.
    In order to help out the aborable little person of interest, I will now post a rebuttal to my previous post. Gotta think of others. No thanks necessary.
    http://www.theonion.com/articles/the-execution-of-mentally-retarded-individuals-suc,31378/

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  43. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    PS: The above post also may be parlayed to include the horrific demands the Opposer puts on people of legal age to seek and obtain an identication, aka, Voer ID. I am certain Mr. Ben Envy appreciates my time consuming research on his behalf.

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