Sandbox – 26jan15

January 2015
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Sandbox – 26jan15

26 January 2015

[Economic development season is rolling around again in Nevada County. What directions should it take and how do we do it in this small mountain county off the beaten path? Our ERC will kick things off this year with a confab on the topic this Thursday in the GV vets hall. They do welcome ideas, so sally forth! – gjr]

Posted in Comment Sandbox

113 responses to “Sandbox – 26jan15”

Russ Steele

26 January 2015

George Boardman has a column on local economic in The Union today: Strong commitment needed to win the economic development game
I take exception to this statement in his article:
What incentives can we offer? A family-friendly environment, “top-notch” schools, and our little corner of heaven. Quantify that on the bottom line.
We once had “top notch” schools, not any more. Some are not meeting the standards. High school graduates are not meeting college entry requirements, with more and more taking remedial math and English before they can enroll in college level classes. Test scores are falling short of benchmarks.
I wrote about our declining school performance in this article: Proceed With Caution: CA Schools Not Good Sales Tool for ERC
Unless the community does something to improve school performance we have one less important thing we can use to sell about our community to potential companies interested in foothill locations.

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George Boardman

26 January 2015

Apparently my subtle dig at our local schools is too subtle for Russ Steele.
There are quote marks around top notch precisely because I don’t think they are. When you adjust test scores for race, we have average white schools by California standards–hardly a ringing endorsement.
And as events at Penn Valley Elementary and the high school district show, we have more than few management issues in our schools.

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Bill Tozer

26 January 2015

This is what is wrong with our schools since The 70’s:
https://www.facebook.com/patrioticnews/photos/pb.138131903029883.-2207520000.1422276458./159782354198171/?type=3&theater

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Russ Steele

26 January 2015

George@11:56AM
This is an issue we should not be too subtle about. For years it was one of the reasons families with children moved to the foothills, escaping urban blight. Now we do not have much to sell.

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Walt

26 January 2015

Mr. George B. You took a swipe at fact our mines are gone and most of the logging.
Well,,there are still some loggers left. But yes, the mills are gone. Like that is something to rejoice about. Seen the price of lumber lately? It’s far from cheap.
Grass Valley politicians fleeced IMM like any good money grubbing whore would do to a miner. IMM offered great jobs for digging money right out of the ground. ( yup that’s what gold is.. MONEY. Where you here when IMM was being lied about? Recall the “promises” of “great tech jobs” only IF IMM didn’t open? Yup ” Green jobs” would relocate from the Bay too. Well,,,, where are they?
The uninformed and under educated took that cock and bull story, hook, line and sinker.
After all this time, we have none.
Now the brag is that Nevada Co. is only surviving on an “underground economy” of illegal MJ sales. ( ask Paul)
How many more retirees per year from other places do we need coming here every year to keep the businesses we do have open? ( imported money)
The Co. is on life support in the form of grants.( Fed. and state welfare)
Even where I work business has never been this bad, even in off season.
Grass Valley would be far better off if the mine was re-opened.
Hell.. they might have been a few jobs available for our up and coming “fair share” of the proposed underclass Penn Valley is going to have. ( if we want them or not)
You know,, all that welfare housing that’s coming soon?

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George Rebane

26 January 2015

There is more honor in subsidized unemployment than working a socially unjust job or drawing socially unfair wages. Progressive proverb.

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fish

26 January 2015

Well…..thank god they are bending the cost curve in the right direction with Obamacare!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2927348/Obamacare-program-costs-50-000-American-gets-health-insurance-says-bombshell-budget-report.html

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George Boardman

26 January 2015

I didn’t take a swipe at mining or logging, or even the mills. I merely made the point (again, perhaps too subtly) that people who wish for their return are wasting their time.
Honor the past, but look to the future if you want to prosper.

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Walt

26 January 2015

Well Mr. B.,, logging isn’t dead, despite the tree hugger’s attempts.
And a mine DID open.(or two) just not in GV. Also despite the Counties attempts to keep them closed. Score one for the tried and true.
You conveniently left out where those “promised jobs” are. You know,, those Green and high tech. It’s stupidity to chase off the sure thing and place all hopes an a maybe.( that never materialized. But keep singing the praises of “we killed IMM”.

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Bill Tozer

26 January 2015

Being the Sandbox and all, I just wish for only one thing today. That is the lefties just tell it like it is when asked, albeit it may be political suicide.
When asked if a unborn child at 20 weeks term is a human, instead of hemming and hawing politics, Nancy should have said “Scientifically, yes! No doubt. It ain’t a anteater or a rhino. However, is legal to kill the blob.” That would make me happy and I would praise the lefties’ candor.
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/lauretta-brown/sf-archbishop-pelosi-no-catholic-can-dissent-church-teaching-abortion

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Bill Tozer

26 January 2015

Ok, it that above post is too hot to handle, how about this potato. When the Supreme Court declared the indiividual mandate constitutional on the argument it is a tax, I am about the only one who saw that logic, like it or not. However, I exhaled a big sigh of relieve knowing that finally, yes finally, the Commerce Clause argument was deemed unconstitutional. The Commerence Clause has its limits after all these years.
So, government via Congress can impose taxes, duh. But, the interesting question is “can the Federal Government tax State and local governments?” I see this as a no brainer without precedent. 9-0 against the Feds. But, I have been wrong before.
http://news.yahoo.com/ohio-sues-over-obamacare-taxes-state-local-governments-181949498.html

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Bill Tozer

26 January 2015

Oh, BTW, Fish provided a delightful link to the CB0 report released today that it will cost the gobberment 50k for every single person insured and in ten years, Obamacare will leave 31 million non-elderly uninsured, which happens to be more non-elderly uninsured that when Obamacare was enacted.
Unfortunately, Mr. Fish’s link is buried in the old Sandbox (1/19/2015) where it soon will be collecting dust.
When you have to lie to sell something, you are selling a lie. Anything founded on lies will not stand the test of time. A house of cards, clay feet, etc.

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Don Bessee

26 January 2015

Given this sandbox and the way the other sandbox ended (Emery fantasy land) I feel its appropriate to tie the strings together. The Emery idea that mmj is such a benefit to the county is demonstrably false. It has in fact been an inhibitor to real business, specifically tech companies relocating here. There is still somewhat of a talent pool. I have too many specific instances from the business community to cite such as the head of a tech co. that opened escrow on 1.5m residential property with the intent of moving his brain trust here (perhaps some manufacturing to follow) and then went to dinner with his family in Nevada city. They took a stroll around the loitering trimigrants and other nothing to doers and had someone offers his daughter a joint. End of subject. Pulled out of escrow and said he would never subject his children or his workers families to this ‘culture’. Then you have the business location scout who flew in and met the local contact at the airport said the fly in told him all needed to know about whats really going on here from the irrational number of pot grows and went home. We have all heard the stories about the massive $$ benefits of weed but no one wants to talk about the totality of the societal costs. Lots of big grows owned by out of towners who take the product away and sell it in a high cost area where they live(out of state) then come back and rent next year. Reports have trimmers being paid in product for their use or resale where they came from for much more than its worth here thus making sense to the migrant nature of it. Look to them flocking like locust to the social service such as food banks that are for the local needy. Then you factor in rehabs, environmental damage and how many grey market folks are fine with getting every free social service since they do not show any money in the bank (duh). We can discuss the so called studies from the ASA over the years if anyone really feels the need. They have crunched the numbers in CO and legalization has lost money for the state. Not to mention the damage to the future work forces productivity when the kids have stoner syndrome (10 IQ drop of early use profile) that damages the developing brains hemispherical connectors as well as stunted growth in the judgment center which is the last to develop in the mid 20’s for boys. Guess that could explain some dem. voters. Our education industry in Nevada County is primarily interested in the preservation of administrators jobs and retirement bumps, not kids. No summer school, kill off vocational education in the middle of a recession where a skill of some kind is a must and bank 6 million for a new HQ and keep hiring administrators for an ever shrinking student pool. They even managed to not save a nickel on the recent consolidation of two districts. Time to just say NO to the teachers unions and administrators symbiotic relationship and get a realistic overhead based on the number of students and start failing students who do not cut it. Too many people in the system who like the everyone gets a trophy and we don’t keep score soccer for the kiddies. Teach them the real world where not everyone wins and some of the biggest winners learned how to lose and come back stronger for it.

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Russ Steele

26 January 2015

DonB@06:56PM
As freelance writer I was commissioned to do a profile on Nevada County for Comstock’s Business, a regional business magazine. I forget which year it was, as I did two of them for the magazine in the late 90s or early 2000s. I interviewed a number of the technology CEOs for the articles, and one of the issues that came up was the MJ culture. It was a real problem in the hiring phase, for production workers from the local population, and for importing engineers. This was especially true for those engineers from the mid-west, where social mores were more strict. For many of the engineering candidates, especially those with families, the local MJ culture was a red flag issue.

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Michael R. Kesti

26 January 2015

Don Bessee 26Jan15 06:56 PM and
Russ Steele 26Jan15 09:25 PM
Legalization would eliminate the problems you describe.

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Don Bessee

26 January 2015

kesti 942, CO and WA have already proved otherwise. Perhaps instead of a big tobacco like big pot we just let everyone have a little personal patch who qualifies. There is way too much truth that puts the lie to lets just legalize. What is it to look like, will there be local control, will there be massive penalties for the miscreants who damage our kids? Do tell? Its time for the rubber to hit the road in CA.

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Michael R. Kesti

26 January 2015

The less-than-one-year experience of two states, still figuring out what it is to look like and negatively affected by the continued criminalization in neighboring states, proves very little.
I favor it looking very much as do alcohol and tobacco, including local control at the county level.
Criminalization results in more damage to them than would legalization. Ask any high school student whether it’s easier to obtain a six-pack of beer or a bag of pot and you’ll find it’s the pot. This is because those willing to traffic in illegal products don’t care to whom they sell. Sweeping marijuana under the rug of criminalization and calling it a controlled substance is stupidly incorrect.

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George Rebane

27 January 2015

DonB 656pm – Strong points indeed, yet the trail of tears in keeping MJ illegal is long and wide. My question remains unanswered (most certainly by the apologists for the local MJ “cottage industry”), and yet to me it is the compelling argument for a legalization that promises to remove the community nuisance problems you describe.
Why would legalized corporate grows in large warehouses not produce quality MJ at prices that would shut down the currently celebrated cottage industry? There are, of course, many ways to regulate, tax, configure, and operate such large corporate grows that will not work, and their description is a waste of time. What would be productive is to either 1) show that there is a seminal weak point in my argument that applies across a wide spectrum of feasible regulations and taxation schemes, or 2) outline at least one regulatory and taxing approach that would make mass production of MJ (similar to tobacco and booze) a win-win for all involved parties. (Mr Kesti’s 1118pm presents a similar argument.)
Or we can just keep playing cops and cartels where they have perpetual job security, and everyone else loses.

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Walt

27 January 2015

For the sake of discussion, (OK argument) lets say weed is legalized.. Just how will that “spur” the local economy? Most consumers of said “product”, won’t be able to be employed.
Most businesses are required to drug test. There are laws on the books for “drug free work places”. Great. So weed is legal, but plenty can’t be employed who use it.
Workers in Colorado are finding that out.
Who here employs? Do YOU want a drug user in your employ? You need that extra liability?
Go talk to your insurance Co. and see what they think.

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Michael R. Kesti

27 January 2015

George Rebane 27Jan15 08:50 AM
Cops’ job security need not be an issue. The effort that they currently expend enforcing the prohibition of marijuana can be redirected to enforcing immigration law.
Walt 27Jan15 09:15 AM
I don’t see that the economy need be spurred in order to justify repealing the prohibition of marijuana but there will be the benefit of no longer wasting police, court, and “corrections” money on marijuana users. This amounts to very big money.
Part of managing marijuana just as we currently manage alcohol and tobacco should, in my opinion, be the elimination of random testing for marijuana by employers. Testing would be justified in the event of an incident that results in losses but not as a requirement for continued employment.
Employers already have drug users in their employ. They use and abuse prescription drugs and the legal recreational drugs (alcohol and tobacco).

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George Rebane

27 January 2015

Walt 915am – your point is good since MJ does affect performance (cognitive and physical) and there exists no effective easily applied test, like for alcohol, to determine if a worker is MJ inebriated. I understand though that there is a technology developing to do that. Most certainly that is a concern with legalization.
MichaelK 938am – From your mouth to God’s ear. Given the awesome political barriers involved in such a (most reasonable) transfer of funds, I have a hard time accepting that you actually said that.

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Gregory

27 January 2015

“We once had “top notch” schools, not any more.”
If by “we” you mean western Nevada County public schools taken as a whole, I’ve seen no evidence of this. When my son entered the Grass Valley School District twenty one years ago, it was already in a whole language and whole math nosedive and with the latest “Common Core” debacle, what progress it made after (mostly) abandoning Mathland and the wretchedly misnamed “College Preparatory Math” for algebra is now being lost.
California’s whole math experiment followed California’s 1992 Mathematics Frameworks, the first time lead author Phil Daro had ever written a K-12 mathematics standard, and given his only degree at the time was a BA in English from UC Berkeley, you might wonder why he got the job to be the lead author for K-12 math curriculum standards in the first place. Given how badly whole math turned out, one might wonder how he got the same job for the so-called “Common Core” standards. Yes, dear friends, the same Phil Daro (BA English, UC Berkeley) who authored the whole math mess for California was the lead author at Achieve, Inc. for the Common Core math standards. Only this time, the reformers are also controlling the assessments and have copyrighted the standards.
They learned how to control the process, and we now have a national K-12 standard for math and language that is well aligned with college entrance requirements at the community college level… in short, a standard that aimed at the lowest tier colleges that have the lowest bar to clear.

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Walt

27 January 2015

” be the elimination of random testing for marijuana by employers”,, uh,, not going to happen. It’s called LIABILITY. If Johnny stoner removes his fingers with a power tool, the insurance company isn’t going to pay up without a BIG fight. The same goes for a stoner driving a Co. vehicle.
What next? Insurance for pot users covered by the tax payer?
You are not going to get the laws changed for drug free workplaces. That’s goes far beyond “random drug screening”
Yes, there are dopers employed,, and at the employer’s possible liability.
One accident or claim due to said dope use,, kiss any good job goodbye.
Good luck at a bottom feeder job. Then who will be the dope smoker’s “bad guy”?
He/ she will be looking to blame someone else for their lack of getting a paying job.
The days of your personal info being private are gone. You can’t hide drug convictions or drug related accidents. Not even failed drug tests. Welcome to the information age.
As I said before ( and it was ignored) the firing of people for pot use in Colorado has doubled. Employers don’t want pot smokers.

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Russ Steele

27 January 2015

Gregory@10:58AM
I should have been more explicit. My memory was that under the state testing, Nevada County K-12 came in second on the test scores behind Marin County in the early 2000s. That does not mean it was a good math program, where people actually learned math, it was only an indicated that Nevada County scored 32 behind Marin County. The ERC used those testing result in the promotional material for the County.
One of our 4.0 Nevada Union Graduates daughter had to take remedial math when she entered UC Davis, We were shocked. After that we hired math tutors for #4 when she was in high school to make sure that did not happen again. We learned that the NU math department was rated marginal when audited during our four daughters tenure. So, it is questionable that Nevada County ever had top notch math programs.

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Gregory

27 January 2015

“My memory was that under the state testing, Nevada County K-12 came in second on the test scores behind Marin County in the early 2000s.”
That’s a bullshit result, Russ, and you don’t have to rely on memory, the STAR exam results remain online and searchable. The gross numbers, trumpeted by County Ed Super, Terry McAteer, were of Marin as a whole against Nevada County as a whole and worked well to make McAteer unbeatable at the polls despite being dumber than a sack of hammers.
If you just look at students who speak English, they beat the pants off us. Even then, Nevada County schools took middle class white kids and turned them into what look like lower middle class white kids.

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Bill Tozer

27 January 2015

Concerning Mr. George Boardman’s piece in The Union and comments made on the radio concerning the ERC and finding out what works and doesn’t, I found this article mesmerizing. No, not because it deals with economic development, but because it is a plan that on each AND every step in the process, it purposely avoids the triggers of regulation from start to finish, thus achieving a common goal for the good of the worker, the worker’s future, and is not a burderson weight on the employer. This is how we should approach matters concerning the ERC or just plain prosperity in our little speck on the orb.
Er, that is until someone like Obama sees all that money sitting there just doing nothin’ and decides to tax the crap out of it to help the middle class. Just like the 529s, but I have digressed from this innovative and exciting (IMHO) plan.
http://news.morningstar.com/articlenet/article.aspx?id=681027

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Michael R. Kesti

27 January 2015

Walt 27Jan15 11:27 AM
Johnny Lush is just as capable of removing his fingers with a power tool but employers don’t randomly test for alcohol. Instead they wait until an accident occurs and then determine the cause of that accident. It’s part of that innocent-until-proven-guilty thing that is included in the freedom many Americans claim to be so proud of.
I agree that employers don’t want marijuana smokers, largely, I believe, due to 80 years of disinformation and negative propaganda concerning the effects of marijuana.
But these are no more valid arguments against the legalization of marijuana than they would be for the criminalization of alcohol and tobacco.
I find the notion of insurance for pot smokers to be patently stupid and the personal information issue is every bit as irrelevant.

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RL Crabb

27 January 2015

While the proliferation of Mary J may have some effect on our county’s ability to attract business, I believe a greater incentive to stay away is the appalling number of unvaccinated school chilluns. We’re near the bottom of that barrel.

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Don Bessee

27 January 2015

One has to suspect that the 12% of kids who regularly get high in Nevada county is also a drag on the education system given that those kids are twice as likely to not finish high school and their general disengagement. Drug Free coalitions are specifically about denying kids access to meds, weed and alcohol. The lowering perception of harm is a real issue for kids. The facts in the legalized states show big increases in youth use rates (and all that implies for their future). The medical facts of the last decade have shown the real nature of the threat to a child’s potential and what that means for society. Giving honey oil to a 13 year old boy because he acts like a 13 year old like the family in the 20 20 piece is the real problem with the ‘pot culture’. I have no problem with someone who could be prescribed Vicodin using pot as an alternative, would feel better if there was more real medical structure like many states and why not have a registry for patients and grows? It would make life easier for everyone. I hear a lot of ‘its gonna be legal’ but very little of substance or detail being proposed. We know what does not work already so what specific ideas are out there to find the proper balance that wont create another big tobacco. Big Tabaco is in the wings waiting to market pot to kids a la joe camel type marketing based on recent trademark filings and domain name buys. Their own documents show they know if they get a kid loyal to a brand early they hold em for the long term. Issues like local control, protections of youth and interstate trafficking all have to be dealt with if they have any chance here in 2016. With polls reversing on the issue across the country and CO looking like they may even repeal legalization based on the last poll its no slam dunk in CA. All of the votes on pot issues in CA in the last couple of election cycles have favored strong control of weed. Even Los Angles got fed up and closed tons of pot shops and delivery services and pot farmers markets after they capped pot shops in a referendum. As gov moonbeam has articulated deep concerns about CA’s future economic competitiveness if we go legal, there is going to be a very interesting political coalition holding the ballot propositions writers feet to the fire and opposing them if they get it wrong. So lets hear some details folks.

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George Rebane

27 January 2015

DonB 144pm – Thanks for the detailed update. I too would like to hear some reasonable rebuttals to your points. I’m not sure that you have responded to my 850am, and I would like to hear your prescription for how MJ should be handled as a matter of public policy. To be clear, I don’t have anything more in my back pocket to offer other than the MJ initiatives taken in CO and WA should be looked at as an opening salvo in fashioning something to try. If they are in some ways failing, should we not attempt improvements before going back to the bad old days?
(Aren’t we glad people didn’t give up on heavier-than-air flying as a result of Langley’s failures?)

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joe smith

27 January 2015

Steele- Pointing to fifteen year old data about acceptance of MJ by CEO’s is ludicrous. You might as well tell us how many CEO’s of the era accepted Apple as a “real’ computer platform. The idea that CEO’s of technology companies avoid Nevada County because of the proliferation of MJ is absurd. Silicon Valley has one of highest densities of MJ dispensaries in the state.

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Don Bessee

27 January 2015

Dr R, Like the folks that did the CO legalization who set up a ballot prop committee here, I have been having broad ongoing conversations since the general election on how to fix our situation in CA. The focus on the projections and outcomes in CO is worth the time so we do not repeat history from a lack of knowledge. I recall in the CO campaign they pointed to the mess in CA as a reason to go the way they did. The real problem is that like measure S the details matter as much as the lack of details. How San Bernadino looks at priorities is different than bezerkly or Nevada County. That’s why we are having so many conferences, in person, video, phone to gain a common understanding. Some very interesting ideas are flying across the State. The writing of the ballot props for 2016 is what matters. This is the time to share ideas. Remember the coalition folks are primarily from the medical world, mental health, recovery. They live every day fixing the harms and see it one way. LE sees other angles as do neighborhoods as do real patients. The cartels will adapt as in CO where they just got their own stores ( a number of raids) and go to importing powdered drugs. That’s why the Mexican farmers are now being paid to grow poppies not weed. TIME TO SEAL THE BOARDER FOLKS. If the pattern in the small states continues south then CA should not rush try to do experiments in a fragile economy of this size. An economy that may have to start full benefits for millions of illegals soon. I am all ears….

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Michael R. Kesti

27 January 2015

Don Bessee 27Jan15 01:44 PM
One has to suspect that the 12% of kids who regularly get high in Nevada county is also a drag on the education system given that those kids are twice as likely to not finish high school and their general disengagement. Drug Free coalitions are specifically about denying kids access to meds, weed and alcohol. The lowering perception of harm is a real issue for kids.
I wholeheartedly agree that minors must not be allowed access to recreational drugs. But if lowering the perception of harm is a valid issue then why does it not apply to all recreational drugs including the currently legal alcohol and tobacco?
The facts in the legalized states show big increases in youth use rates (and all that implies for their future).
Some fairly lightweight research on my part (A single Google search.) turned up articles that cite studies that claim both increased and decreased youth use rates in states that have legalized marijuana so I am thinking that such studies are finding what they want to find. As I have stated I believe that genuine control will at least make it more difficult for minors to obtain marijuana.
The medical facts of the last decade have shown the real nature of the threat to a child’s potential and what that means for society. Giving honey oil to a 13 year old boy because he acts like a 13 year old like the family in the 20 20 piece is the real problem with the ‘pot culture’.
I consider giving honey oil to a 13-year old to be more a parenting problem than a drug culture problem. In any event, I suspect that the 20/20 piece reports a statistical outlier.
I have no problem with someone who could be prescribed Vicodin using pot as an alternative, would feel better if there was more real medical structure like many states and why not have a registry for patients and grows? It would make life easier for everyone. I hear a lot of ‘its gonna be legal’ but very little of substance or detail being proposed. We know what does not work already so what specific ideas are out there to find the proper balance that wont create another big tobacco. Big Tabaco is in the wings waiting to market pot to kids a la joe camel type marketing based on recent trademark filings and domain name buys. Their own documents show they know if they get a kid loyal to a brand early they hold em for the long term. Issues like local control, protections of youth and interstate trafficking all have to be dealt with if they have any chance here in 2016.
Claiming that, “Big Tobacco waiting in the wings to market pot to kids,” has a distinct reefer madness feel. Besides, Big Tobacco has been pressured/regulated to stop marketing to youth and can (and should) be similarly limited in marketing marijuana.
With polls reversing on the issue across the country and CO looking like they may even repeal legalization based on the last poll its no slam dunk in CA. All of the votes on pot issues in CA in the last couple of election cycles have favored strong control of weed. Even Los Angles got fed up and closed tons of pot shops and delivery services and pot farmers markets after they capped pot shops in a referendum.
Citing experience to date is specious. None of the legalization has, in my opinion, been well implemented nor has enough time been given for the public’s inevitable initial reaction to settle down. What is more, as long as marijuana remains criminalized at the Federal level (without enforcement) no legalization efforts to date can be considered genuine examples of outcome.
But if we are going to cherry pick outcomes I’d choose the Netherlands’ experience.
As gov moonbeam has articulated deep concerns about CA’s future economic competitiveness if we go legal, there is going to be a very interesting political coalition holding the ballot propositions writers feet to the fire and opposing them if they get it wrong.
I do not want to see legalization by ballot proposition as I feel that ballot propositions are generally a poor way to legislate.
So lets hear some details folks.
The details that I have provided are simple and concise. I believe that marijuana can and should be controlled in manners similar, perhaps identical, to the way alcohol and tobacco are currently controlled.

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George Rebane

27 January 2015

DonB 545pm – Again thank you for your heartfelt outlook on MJ. But I do invite you to propose a specific plan forward on MJ for CA. Please email me your piece on that and I will post as your byline. Specifics will then launch a productive and interesting debate on the issue. Thanks again for hanging in there.

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Don Bessee

27 January 2015

The experiences of jurisdictions in the US is relevant, not the Europeans model. As I said Dr. I do not have a specific piece of legislation to propose. I am looking at this as an evaluation of what we have learned in the US from the folks who live it in CA. As to the activities of big tobacco re pot there is a ton of information on the (gulp) federal health sites. Start with the local Coalition for a Drug Free Nevada County and its history to see it is a push on all fronts. The harms of weed are one of many. NO OBAMA LUCHES HOWEVER. Its about the kids and I learned that after working to protect a neighborhood from abusive pot profiteers. Social host laws like the one that got the ASA shark Lake should be poly drug and have teeth. We do not have one here, shouldn’t we? Make the parents responsible for dispensing demonstrably harmful products of pot to kids for trivial reasons. There are decades of blind self reporting use rates that show the real use patterns, just like the ones here that showed recently three quarters of high school kids never used weed. Even the Superintendents health office has them and are happy to share. Call them. That however leaves a ton of kids in the dust. Can we afford to abandon that much potential productivity and drive?

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George Rebane

27 January 2015

DonB 742pm – Thanks Don. Nevertheless, would be happy to hear of the latest that you have dug up on the issue.

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Paul Emery

27 January 2015

Don B
Have you ever heard of paragraphs? It would make your screed much more readable.

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Russ Steele

28 January 2015

Regulations, damm money grubbing regulations!
BOUND BROOK – School was closed for the blizzard that wasn’t, but there was still enough snow on the ground that two Bridgewater-Raritan Regional High School seniors thought they could make a few extra bucks.
In the process, Matt Molinari and Eric Schnepf, both 18, also learned a valuable lesson about one of the costs of doing business: government regulations.
The two friends were canvasing a neighborhood near this borough’s border with Bridgewater early Monday evening, handing out fliers promoting their service, when they were pulled over by a police and told to stop.
It would be OK, once they pay the city $450 for a permit giving them permission to canvas door to door selling sidewalk shoveling for $25 to $40 per walk.

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Don Bessee

28 January 2015

PE- Thanks for the deep thoughts and how to grapple with the issues of giving kids the best start they can have in life. It would be interesting to see what you have said years in the past about big tobacco. If anyone has any doubt that big tobacco is in the wings waiting to exploit our kids in post legalization just look at the vape trend. They found an alternate delivery model for nicotine that kids are all in for, ‘its so cool’. They found a hole in the law and drove a truck through it. The CA health dept just raised the alarm about legislating the vape trend and its impact on kids not to mention that it delivers as many if not more toxins than a cig. Let’s not even start about the models that let you pack the chamber with meth, coke, weed whatever. I do admit I do not have the hang of word pad. I space out paras. and it all mashes up when it posts. I guess that confirms I have old fart syndrome.

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Michael R. Kesti

28 January 2015

Don Bessee 28Jan15 01:23 PM
I space out paras. and it all mashes up when it posts.
If I understand you correctly you are saying that you form paragraphs by pressing your keyboard’s space bar to add space characters from the end of a previous paragraph’s last sentence until the cursor wraps to the next line. Consider that this is not valid technique for the reason that the line width of you Wordpad window and of readers’ web browser windows are not likely to be the same. What is more, typepad.com, the blog site that hosts Rebane’s Ruminations, replaces multiple spaces with a single space character in order to reduce comments’ data size.
A better technique is to press your keyboard’s “Enter” key at the end of the previous paragraph’s last sentence. (On some keyboards this key may be labeled “Return” and functions much as do electric typewriters’ “Carriage Return” key.) This will immediately place the cursor at the beginning of the next line.
It is conventional to leave a blank line between paragraphs so you may want to press the “Enter” key twice. This may appear to result in too much space, however, because Wordpad, by default, adds a blank line at paragraph breaks. Typepad.com does not do this, though, so the additional line will not appear in your published comment. (There really is no end to this sort of thing!)
I think it is excellent that you compose your comments using Wordpad as the web page’s edit window is, ironically, a very poor pace to edit. It also says that you may not be such an old fart as it means that you must have mastered using text selection, copying, and pasting.
Finally, I encourage you to use the web page’s comment preview feature after pasting your comment to the web page. This provides an opportunity to see how your writing will be formatted as well as one more chance to proofread, too!

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Walt

28 January 2015

More dirty tricks from Dear Leader
If they don’t like your business, they just have a little talk with your bank.
http://dailycaller.com/2015/01/28/do-not-disclose-obama-admin-tells-banks-to-shut-up-about-its-targeting-of-consumers-gun-dealers/

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Michael R. Kesti

29 January 2015

Oops, he’s done it yet again.
The FUE posted still one more criticism of another’s error this morning. This time he takes George Boardman to task for referring to San Francisco’s St. Francis Wood neighborhood as “St. Francis Woods.” (Note the ‘s’ in “Woods.”) in a comment on R. L. Crabb’s blog. This alone would be sufficiently petty but it appears that Pelline posted the article twice, the first time with the headline, “St. Francisco Wood in San Francisco” (Note “Francisco” rather than “Francis.”) and then again with the headline, “St. Francis Wood.”
Does much of that glass house still stand, Jeff?

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fish

29 January 2015

Posted by: Michael R. Kesti | 29 January 2015 at 12:01 PM
I think that as you observe our lil jeffy you’ll come to realize that self-awareness isn’t his strong suit.

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Walt

29 January 2015

And LIBS love to complain about the Koch Bros.
Look what one NON American Billionaire has been up to.
Gotta love that Obummer transparency..
http://dailycaller.com/2015/01/29/obama-adviser-podesta-caught-green-handed-in-major-ethics-violation/

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JeffPelline

29 January 2015

The difference is whether you can correct your own mistakes or have others do it for you. LOL.

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Todd Juvinall

29 January 2015

I think Kesti fixed it. ROFLMAO

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Walt

29 January 2015

WOW!!! Look what can come from government grants! ( pardon the pun)
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/01/29/origami-condom-inventor-has-to-pay-back-taxpayer-funds/?intcmp=latestnews
They will give grants for anything.

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Walt

29 January 2015

And in local news,, all those gun laws sure stopped this guy from getting weapons.
http://www.theunion.com/news/14841336-113/ncso-raid-nets-guns-pot-money-and-a-booby-trap
So just what new laws that were proposed would have stopped him from getting them?
Nevermind all the other laws the bastard broke.

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Barry Pruett

29 January 2015

Ok Todd…that was funny and I did really laugh out loud.

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JeffPelline

29 January 2015

I think Todd would make a good campaign manager for Barry on the second try. LOL.

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